Well its a more likely scenario than Sam, a policeman, telling a crook his life story! Like all coppers have a heart to heart with the people they've just arrested. He did it once and got the guy concerned committed.
It was a good lookalike. The writers thought briefly about inviting John back, as a replacement of Nelson, but decided against it- they didn't want Ashes to Ashes becoming all about Sam rather than Alex after the hoo-ha the media gave Keeley in series one
I would agree with this, however the mentions of Sam were excessive in this series. The writers must have known that it was a trump card to continually mention him, leading the audience to believe that he might be coming back. They even went to the trouble of hiring a convincing body double and giving cryptic answers during interviews like ''Sam Tyler has a .presence. during the episode'' So the fact they never even asked him is quite surprising.
And the implication that a JS appearance would somehow undermine Alex, or steal her thunder seems a bit unfair to KH
And as it was the actual ending didn't even involve Alex.
.
I'm still puzzled about why the Northerner Thordy would be in an overcrowded prison in the south. And he was only a conman, so why had he spent 8 months sharing a cell with a murderer in a wing of reserved for the worse offenders?
.
Often people are put in prisons away from their home area, and perhaps he had moved down south then been arrested for crimes there? The comedian in ep 5 had fled Manchester for London with Bevan and Litton after him. Perhaps Thordy too had 'upset' people and had moved areas?
And in magazine stories in real life you often seem to have people saying "I was sharing a cell with murderers..." when they have only committed more minor crimes so perhaps it does work that way.
Listening to New Order and it's making me wanna watch Ashes to Ashes so bad. I have a two or three episodes of series one to watch and can't seem to find series two anywhere for cheapness
And the implication that a JS appearance would somehow undermine Alex, or steal her thunder seems a bit unfair to KH
And as it was the actual ending didn't even involve Alex.
I know what you mean but Sam coming back *would* have been a big deal and I think it *would* have detracted from a cracking ending:)
Listening to New Order and it's making me wanna watch Ashes to Ashes so bad. I have a two or three episodes of series one to watch and can't seem to find series two anywhere for cheapness
Sainsbury's had it for £12.00 the other day, don't know if they still have:)
No, I'm with the admittedly small amount of people who think it should be left there. A2A has had perhaps the best finale of any series (Babylon 5 excepted), it has reached the pinnacle of TV drama and provided us with at once a jaw-dropping and also (within the world of LOM/A2A) plausible conclusion, and to push it further would be wrong.
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
No, I'm with the admittedly small amount of people who think it should be left there. A2A has had perhaps the best finale of any series (Babylon 5 excepted), it has reached the pinnacle of TV drama and provided us with at once a jaw-dropping and also (within the world of LOM/A2A) plausible conclusion, and to push it further would be wrong.
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
No, I'm with the admittedly small amount of people who think it should be left there. A2A has had perhaps the best finale of any series (Babylon 5 excepted), it has reached the pinnacle of TV drama and provided us with at once a jaw-dropping and also (within the world of LOM/A2A) plausible conclusion, and to push it further would be wrong.
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
OOOH NO ! ! They should have a Christmas special, find a Guardian Angel to replace Gene, and let him join Bolly in Heaven
Otherwise I'll never have a good night's sleep again !
I'm sure the main stumbling block would be that John Simm just didn't want to do it.
According to the writers, they didn't even approach him, though i think they said one of the main reasons for this (other than the one they've already given) was the possibility of him getting cold feet nearer the time.
Which would be a pain in the arse, especially if they'd written and filmed most of the story with the assumption he'd be making an appearence at the end, and then for it not to happen.
No, I'm with the admittedly small amount of people who think it should be left there. A2A has had perhaps the best finale of any series (Babylon 5 excepted), it has reached the pinnacle of TV drama and provided us with at once a jaw-dropping and also (within the world of LOM/A2A) plausible conclusion, and to push it further would be wrong.
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
You certainly can't improve on perfection - so I won't add a single thing to your masterly summary which coincides so 'perfectly' with my own feelings!
No, I'm with the admittedly small amount of people who think it should be left there. A2A has had perhaps the best finale of any series (Babylon 5 excepted), it has reached the pinnacle of TV drama and provided us with at once a jaw-dropping and also (within the world of LOM/A2A) plausible conclusion, and to push it further would be wrong.
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
No, I'm with the admittedly small amount of people who think it should be left there. A2A has had perhaps the best finale of any series (Babylon 5 excepted), it has reached the pinnacle of TV drama and provided us with at once a jaw-dropping and also (within the world of LOM/A2A) plausible conclusion, and to push it further would be wrong.
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
One or two niggles though: someone many pages ago accused the writers of "making it up as they went along". Now, whereas I don't believe that to be the case, I do have a sort of a problem with Keats just coming "out of the blue" in what is essentially series 5, if you take the two progs as one. If there had been some inference, some allusion to him, or his masters, prior to this series I would have been happier. Something along the lines of Gene says to Sam, "You don't understand what's at stake here, Tyler! There are forces at work here, dark forces, that want us to fail!" And then to laugh it off with a comment like "Bloody United supporters, for one! Stupid *****!"
At least then we would have had some sort of idea that there were shadowy forces moving behind the scenes, that there was a bigger game being played. But without that I can see how some people might question the sudden appearance of the "son of Satan", or whatever. Without any previous mention, Keats blows in and it's under his guidance (or misguidance) that the secret is finally shown to us. I just would have preferred him to have been alluded to before...
I personally wanted LOM for the end tune, to bring everything full circle. Or even A2A, or one seguing into the other. That said, I think Heroes was a masterful choice, and exactly fit the mood for the end of the series.
I also think Gene did NOT create the "police-world": I would say that was God, or Allah, or the Grand Hoohah, or whoever you believe in. The Big Cheese. Gene was just given stewardship of it, perhaps after asking, with his final breath, for another chance?
I do wonder how this ties in with Sam;s end though? He went back to 21st century and (re)killed himself. What was he doing? Falling prey to the machinations of the behind-the-scenes Keats? Was he imagining he was back home? Being already dead, I mean? Little unsure how that one works out.
Still, a masterful finale and deserving of its place in TV history. We'll be seeing this in "Greatest TV ending" type shows for a very long time to come, people!
According to the writers, they didn't even approach him, though i think they said one of the main reasons for this (other than the one they've already given) was the possibility of him getting cold feet nearer the time.
Which would be a pain in the arse, especially if they'd written and filmed most of the story with the assumption he'd be making an appearence at the end, and then for it not to happen.
A seasoned actor like Simms wouldn't have cold feet, surely?
In any case, surely filming is organised according to location rather than done in the same sequence as the storyline. They could easily have filmed his part when he was available.
One or two niggles though: someone many pages ago accused the writers of "making it up as they went along". Now, whereas I don't believe that to be the case, I do have a sort of a problem with Keats just coming "out of the blue" in what is essentially series 5, if you take the two progs as one. If there had been some inference, some allusion to him, or his masters, prior to this series I would have been happier. Something along the lines of Gene says to Sam, "You don't understand what's at stake here, Tyler! There are forces at work here, dark forces, that want us to fail!" And then to laugh it off with a comment like "Bloody United supporters, for one! Stupid *****!"
At least then we would have had some sort of idea that there were shadowy forces moving behind the scenes, that there was a bigger game being played. But without that I can see how some people might question the sudden appearance of the "son of Satan", or whatever. Without any previous mention, Keats blows in and it's under his guidance (or misguidance) that the secret is finally shown to us. I just would have preferred him to have been alluded to before...
I personally wanted LOM for the end tune, to bring everything full circle. Or even A2A, or one seguing into the other. That said, I think Heroes was a masterful choice, and exactly fit the mood for the end of the series.
I also think Gene did NOT create the "police-world": I would say that was God, or Allah, or the Grand Hoohah, or whoever you believe in. The Big Cheese. Gene was just given stewardship of it, perhaps after asking, with his final breath, for another chance?
I do wonder how this ties in with Sam;s end though? He went back to 21st century and (re)killed himself. What was he doing? Falling prey to the machinations of the behind-the-scenes Keats? Was he imagining he was back home? Being already dead, I mean? Little unsure how that one works out.
Still, a masterful finale and deserving of its place in TV history. We'll be seeing this in "Greatest TV ending" type shows for a very long time to come, people!
In an interview referenced earlier in this thread with one of the writers(but I'm not about to try and find it) it was said that Keats was almost a last minute addition. Originally, he was going to be in a single episode to investigate Gene's shooting of Alex and then disappear again, but they decided to give him a bigger role until the idea that he was who he was came about. However, I don't have any problem with Keats coming in when he did, it was at the point of Alex's death which seemed to give him his way in.
It was also stated that Gene did create the world, but I would interpret that to mean he was allowed to create his own world rather than did it all on his own.
In LOM S1 E4 Gene says he has been a polocaman since he was 19, worked with and shopped a 'bent' copper who commited suicide (the way Ray did) and took his first 'bung' a month later.
I think I misheard Gene in the last episode when he was telling Alex how he died. I thought he said he had only been a PC for a week. Am i wrong?
In LOM S1 E4 Gene says he has been a polocaman since he was 19, worked with and shopped a 'bent' copper who commited suicide (the way Ray did) and took his first 'bung' a month later.
I think I misheard Gene in the last episode when he was telling Alex how he died. I thought he said he had only been a PC for a week. Am i wrong?
No you're right, but I'm presuming in the Genieverse he started again as a copper?
Often people are put in prisons away from their home area, and perhaps he had moved down south then been arrested for crimes there? The comedian in ep 5 had fled Manchester for London with Bevan and Litton after him. Perhaps Thordy too had 'upset' people and had moved areas?
And in magazine stories in real life you often seem to have people saying "I was sharing a cell with murderers..." when they have only committed more minor crimes so perhaps it does work that way.
I might be wrong but I'm sure when Thordy was apprehended again by Alex and Gene, he was described as a cop killer by Gene. I too have a big problem with Thordy being brought into it and not explained at all. I gather that the first couple of episodes and the last episode of S3 were written by different people from those writing the episodes in between. It makes me suspect that there was simply a continuity gap created by having different writers. The Bevan thing was wholly unsatisfactory too, IMO.
In LOM S1 E4 Gene says he has been a polocaman since he was 19, worked with and shopped a 'bent' copper who commited suicide (the way Ray did) and took his first 'bung' a month later.
I think I misheard Gene in the last episode when he was telling Alex how he died. I thought he said he had only been a PC for a week. Am i wrong?
I thought he said he'd been a policeman for 19 years and had joined after completing his National service, which is why I thought he was only 19 when he was killed. To have finished NS at 22 implies he'd been otherwise employed after finishing school.
I've been away for a week and logged on in the hope that the discussion was continuing and I'm glad to see I've not been disappointed. I got serious withdrawal symptoms on Friday at 9, but my OH wouldn't let me watch the Gene Genie on DVD cos he was watching some motoring crap! I shall be replacing him forthwith!!!
Comments
I would agree with this, however the mentions of Sam were excessive in this series. The writers must have known that it was a trump card to continually mention him, leading the audience to believe that he might be coming back. They even went to the trouble of hiring a convincing body double and giving cryptic answers during interviews like ''Sam Tyler has a .presence. during the episode'' So the fact they never even asked him is quite surprising.
And the implication that a JS appearance would somehow undermine Alex, or steal her thunder seems a bit unfair to KH
And as it was the actual ending didn't even involve Alex.
Often people are put in prisons away from their home area, and perhaps he had moved down south then been arrested for crimes there? The comedian in ep 5 had fled Manchester for London with Bevan and Litton after him. Perhaps Thordy too had 'upset' people and had moved areas?
And in magazine stories in real life you often seem to have people saying "I was sharing a cell with murderers..." when they have only committed more minor crimes so perhaps it does work that way.
I know what you mean but Sam coming back *would* have been a big deal and I think it *would* have detracted from a cracking ending:)
Sainsbury's had it for £12.00 the other day, don't know if they still have:)
I prefer to think of Gene as always being there, for the copper killed too soon or without cause, an archangel who will forever be at the gates, waiting to help, shepherd, and bring his charges to peace, a figure who will be one of the never-changing constants of the universe, a fitting tribute to all Gene Hunt, the man, did for those who served under him.
Otherwise, I think we run the risk of an OFAH fiasco. A show that ends that well should NOT be resurrected, nor dragged screaming out of retirement. It's ended perfectly, let's leave it be. You can't improve on perfection.
I know you're right, but I just miss it so:(
OOOH NO ! ! They should have a Christmas special, find a Guardian Angel to replace Gene, and let him join Bolly in Heaven
Otherwise I'll never have a good night's sleep again !
According to the writers, they didn't even approach him, though i think they said one of the main reasons for this (other than the one they've already given) was the possibility of him getting cold feet nearer the time.
Which would be a pain in the arse, especially if they'd written and filmed most of the story with the assumption he'd be making an appearence at the end, and then for it not to happen.
You certainly can't improve on perfection - so I won't add a single thing to your masterly summary which coincides so 'perfectly' with my own feelings!
Couldn't agree more
This ....1000 percent!
One or two niggles though: someone many pages ago accused the writers of "making it up as they went along". Now, whereas I don't believe that to be the case, I do have a sort of a problem with Keats just coming "out of the blue" in what is essentially series 5, if you take the two progs as one. If there had been some inference, some allusion to him, or his masters, prior to this series I would have been happier. Something along the lines of Gene says to Sam, "You don't understand what's at stake here, Tyler! There are forces at work here, dark forces, that want us to fail!" And then to laugh it off with a comment like "Bloody United supporters, for one! Stupid *****!"
At least then we would have had some sort of idea that there were shadowy forces moving behind the scenes, that there was a bigger game being played. But without that I can see how some people might question the sudden appearance of the "son of Satan", or whatever. Without any previous mention, Keats blows in and it's under his guidance (or misguidance) that the secret is finally shown to us. I just would have preferred him to have been alluded to before...
I personally wanted LOM for the end tune, to bring everything full circle. Or even A2A, or one seguing into the other. That said, I think Heroes was a masterful choice, and exactly fit the mood for the end of the series.
I also think Gene did NOT create the "police-world": I would say that was God, or Allah, or the Grand Hoohah, or whoever you believe in. The Big Cheese. Gene was just given stewardship of it, perhaps after asking, with his final breath, for another chance?
I do wonder how this ties in with Sam;s end though? He went back to 21st century and (re)killed himself. What was he doing? Falling prey to the machinations of the behind-the-scenes Keats? Was he imagining he was back home? Being already dead, I mean? Little unsure how that one works out.
Still, a masterful finale and deserving of its place in TV history. We'll be seeing this in "Greatest TV ending" type shows for a very long time to come, people!
A seasoned actor like Simms wouldn't have cold feet, surely?
In any case, surely filming is organised according to location rather than done in the same sequence as the storyline. They could easily have filmed his part when he was available.
In an interview referenced earlier in this thread with one of the writers(but I'm not about to try and find it) it was said that Keats was almost a last minute addition. Originally, he was going to be in a single episode to investigate Gene's shooting of Alex and then disappear again, but they decided to give him a bigger role until the idea that he was who he was came about. However, I don't have any problem with Keats coming in when he did, it was at the point of Alex's death which seemed to give him his way in.
It was also stated that Gene did create the world, but I would interpret that to mean he was allowed to create his own world rather than did it all on his own.
I think I misheard Gene in the last episode when he was telling Alex how he died. I thought he said he had only been a PC for a week. Am i wrong?
No you're right, but I'm presuming in the Genieverse he started again as a copper?
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s49/ashes-to-ashes/news/a222409/nearly-6m-watch-ashes-to-ashes-finale.html
I might be wrong but I'm sure when Thordy was apprehended again by Alex and Gene, he was described as a cop killer by Gene. I too have a big problem with Thordy being brought into it and not explained at all. I gather that the first couple of episodes and the last episode of S3 were written by different people from those writing the episodes in between. It makes me suspect that there was simply a continuity gap created by having different writers. The Bevan thing was wholly unsatisfactory too, IMO.
I thought he said he'd been a policeman for 19 years and had joined after completing his National service, which is why I thought he was only 19 when he was killed. To have finished NS at 22 implies he'd been otherwise employed after finishing school.
I've been away for a week and logged on in the hope that the discussion was continuing and I'm glad to see I've not been disappointed. I got serious withdrawal symptoms on Friday at 9, but my OH wouldn't let me watch the Gene Genie on DVD cos he was watching some motoring crap! I shall be replacing him forthwith!!!
I look forward to catching up on all the posts.