Everywhere on the web the iPhone is usually better.
I recall reading a comparison to a 12mp camera with everything mainly highlighted where the iPhone performed better.
At a later date I noticed technical comments there highlighting that the 12mp phone had actually been set to compress down to 9mp on on the fly.
That was at one of the better websites but why would a reviewer force a camera to crudely downgrade its pictures and not even mention it?
Obviously that 41mp camera can scissor size down to 5mp and supply photos many times better than any digital zoom.
On a side note, anyone using smartphones for recording holiday videos benefits from massive memory. SD cards cough cough.
Guess it depends on how much video you record, I can comfortably get 5 hours of HD video on my iPhone and that's with all my apps and stuff.
Not sure about the S3 and 4S - neither of those is even up with the N8 on overall still imaging ability...
As subjective as image quality is, I cannot fathom how you can try and defend the N8.
Look at the GSMArena comparison again, the N8 is 'A' and the Galaxy S3 is 'B' - they're right next to each other.
There is absolutely no question which is better; the N8's crops are completely lacking in detail, which is the exact opposite of what should theoretically be the case given the shot was down-sampled from a higher-resolution original.
Again, I have to disagree.
None of the phones get anywhere near the quality of the PEN and beyond that all that can definitively be started is that there are three phones that captured decent images and two that captured crap ones, once you start to rank them within those groups it then becomes extremely subjective.
one of the worst informed posts you've written in a long time.
Since I only joined this forum last month, I'm struggling to see how you can say that.
And if you'd been cyber-stalking me, then you'd know that whether you consider it objectively or subjectively, that post doesn't get close to my all-time, top ten crap posts
As for the technology, I know how it works and I stand by my comments.
As subjective as image quality is, I cannot fathom how you can try and defend the N8.
Look at the GSMArena comparison again, the N8 is 'A' and the Galaxy S3 is 'B' - they're right next to each other.
There is absolutely no question which is better; the N8's crops are completely lacking in detail, which is the exact opposite of what should theoretically be the case given the shot was down-sampled from a higher-resolution original.
Again, I have to disagree.
None of the phones get anywhere near the quality of the PEN and beyond that all that can definitively be started is that there are three phones that captured decent images and two that captured crap ones, once you start to rank them within those groups it then becomes extremely subjective.
Since I only joined this forum last month, I'm struggling to see how you can say that.
And if you'd been cyber-stalking me, then you'd know that whether you consider it objectively or subjectively, that post doesn't get close to my all-time, top ten crap posts
As for the technology, I know how it works and I stand by my comments.
you are well informed yet you wrote this:
Gimmicky.
The vast majority of people don't need to take 41MP photos - and those who do wouldn't use a phone to do it. If Nokia were really trying to improve cameraphones, they'd be focused on adding optical zoom, not just cramming in extra pixels.
which is utter utter nonsense.
the gsm arena test you link to is ridiculous. the N8 image has been resized from 4000x3000 to 3264x2448 not a resize that is going to do the image any good you are examining it on a per pixel level. and then resized as a lossy jpeg
the s3 image has been sharpened. presumably by the phone itself.
you can see the quality of the N8's sensor by looking at the diagonal line on the OMV board. see how it's all jagged on the s3 and a smooth line on the N8.
also take a look at the last set, the ones with the motor bike. the n808's is by far the best image, and the N8's is much better than the S3's
the n808 is not ever going to sell in huge numbers. it's a demonstration of the pure view technology which wont disappear.
So a company in huge financial trouble is putting a phone to market that they believe won't sell very well that what your saying. If that was the case it is obviously only Nokia who think they can mess about with demonstration models right now, they should be concentrating on something that actully sells.
So a company in huge financial trouble is putting a phone to market that they believe won't sell very well that what your saying. If that was the case it is obviously only Nokia who think they can mess about with demonstration models right now, they should be concentrating on something that actully sells.
strategist are you?
the pure view camera has been in development for two years. and potentially it will be a great USP for nokia at a time when oems struggle to differentiate their hardware. they can not include it currently in the windows phone line up because WP7 can't be made to work with it.
I think that people who are still to switch from a feature phone and who don't have, or are looking to replace, a compact camera would definitely look at the Pureview.
I think that for existing iPhone and Android users who rely on the enormous range of apps to customise their phone to their particular requirements, the Pureview's awesome camera isn't enough.
I'm an enthusiastic amateur photographer, and I've read a lot about this phone in great detail, but an awesome camera isn't enough. I had a Nokia N82 a couple of years back and the camera on that was great, but the quality of the Symbian apps let the phone down. In the end I was only using it for photos and Nokia Maps navigation and I got an iPhone to do email, browsing and all the other stuff.
the pure view camera has been in development for two years. and potentially it will be a great USP for nokia at a time when oems struggle to differentiate their hardware. they can not include it currently in the windows phone line up because WP7 can't be made to work with it.
so what would you do?
well do you think a camera phone because lets be honest that is all it is, is going to be sufficient to lure people away from the comfort of their ios or android systems?
That camera without an app system or market leading os behind it will mean nothing to most people in the same way as the n8 meant nothing.
You say it won't work on wp if i were Nokia i would have made sure it did that phone with symbian behind it will fail and as i said Nokia is not in the position to be testing the market right now.
Don't get me wrong it is a nice feature just foolhardy.
well do you think a camera phone because lets be honest that is all it is, is going to be sufficient to lure people away from the comfort of their ios or android systems?
That camera without an app system or market leading os behind it will mean nothing to most people in the same way as the n8 meant nothing.
You say it won't work on wp if i were Nokia i would have made sure it did that phone with symbian behind it will fail and as i said Nokia is not in the position to be testing the market right now.
Don't get me wrong it is a nice feature just foolhardy.
It has taken them over 5 years to develop the technology and bring it to market. There's not a huge amount of additional cost in actually selling it now that they've made it. They aren't going to market it the way they are with WP devices. At the time of development, Symbian owned the smartphone market and there are probably still a number of symbian users (especially in emerging markets, who are still interested in a symbian phone given they tend to have hardware features that others don't have - e.g. FM transmitter).
The main point of PureView 808 in today's market is to a) keep Nokia's name in people's minds and generate positive press etc and b) to continue instilling in the public's mind an association between the Nokia brand and really good imaging technology.
There's a good chance that with the coming of WP8, windows phone will gain sufficient market share to enable Nokia to survive. Be confident that Nokia is working as fast as they can to bring elements of the pureview technology to windows phone as a USP.
It has taken them over 5 years to develop the technology and bring it to market. There's not a huge amount of additional cost in actually selling it now that they've made it. They aren't going to market it the way they are with WP devices. At the time of development, Symbian owned the smartphone market and there are probably still a number of symbian users (especially in emerging markets, who are still interested in a symbian phone given they tend to have hardware features that others don't have - e.g. FM transmitter).
The main point of PureView 808 in today's market is to a) keep Nokia's name in people's minds and generate positive press etc and b) to continue instilling in the public's mind an association between the Nokia brand and really good imaging technology.
There's a good chance that with the coming of WP8, windows phone will gain sufficient market share to enable Nokia to survive. Be confident that Nokia is working as fast as they can to bring elements of the pureview technology to windows phone as a USP.
I'm afraid the state of Nokia at present does not back up any of those theories.
They are literally teetering on the brink and this phone is going to do nothing to bring them back to safety and that is all they should be concerned with right now.
Especially as rumours are that MS will be making their own WP8 phones.
I'm afraid the state of Nokia at present does not back up any of those theories.
They are literally teetering on the brink and this phone is going to do nothing to bring them back to safety and that is all they should be concerned with right now.
Especially as rumours are that MS will be making their own WP8 phones.
If MS where going to produce WP8 phones then they would have announced them at the same time as telling everyone about WP8
I'm afraid the state of Nokia at present does not back up any of those theories.
They are literally teetering on the brink and this phone is going to do nothing to bring them back to safety and that is all they should be concerned with right now.
Especially as rumours are that MS will be making their own WP8 phones.
i don't know why you quoted TheBigM's post there because what you said is in no way a response to it. you've just ignored everything he's said.
i don't know why you quoted TheBigM's post there because what you said is in no way a response to it. you've just ignored everything he's said.
I think you will find I did the post was pure conjecture .. little cost in bringing a phone to market hardly true is it, still a market for the symbian ios well clearly not this is why Nokia is in the state it is at the moment its blinkered view and juggernaut like ability to adapt to the changing market. keeping Nokias name in the forefront of image technology which again is not going to change their fortune a camera phone which this is will have little or no mass market appeal. bringing it to WP8 well it isnt at the moment so again conjecture if and when it does it may be too late for nokia.
All was summed up by the current state of nokia at present and this phone shows they do not seem to be learning hard lessons. However is that better for you now?
I think you will find I did the post was pure conjecture .. little cost in bringing a phone to market hardly true is it, still a market for the symbian ios well clearly not this is why Nokia is in the state it is at the moment its blinkered view and juggernaut like ability to adapt to the changing market. keeping Nokias name in the forefront of image technology which again is not going to change their fortune a camera phone which this is will have little or no mass market appeal. bringing it to WP8 well it isnt at the moment so again conjecture if and when it does it may be too late for nokia.
All was summed up by the current state of nokia at present and this phone shows they do not seem to be learning hard lessons. However is that better for you now?
i find that post difficult to follow. it's incoherent.
if your point is that nokia will ultimately fail then so be it. but this thread is about the 808.
it has been explained to you the thinking behind releasing it and it's fairly well documented it is not conjecture, it's just information that is widely available.
i think your reference to 'symbian ios' may belie what informs your opinions. you do know that most people couldn't care less about their phone's operating system?
i find that post difficult to follow. it's incoherent.
if your point is that nokia will ultimately fail then so be it. but this thread is about the 808.
it has been explained to you the thinking behind releasing it and it's fairly well documented it is not conjecture, it's just information that is widely available.
i think your reference to 'symbian ios' may belie what informs your opinions. you do know that most people couldn't care less about their phone's operating system?
Well I will try and spell it out for you very simply then.
It is conjecture that any of the stated aims of the phone will actually come to fruition. As a phone and the reasons why I and I predict many others will not invest in one are:
It has nothing to offer other than a camera which will not bring users from other platforms on its own.
It is based upon an outdated os that has already been rejected by the buying public.
In all respects it is an average to poor smartphone for the asking price.
Now if the purpose of the phone is to promote the image quality of nokia it is a very foolhardy endeavour as they do not have at this rate much more time to turn things around. Even if this does put them at the forefront of image quality on phones that will not bring in the required customers on its own to save the company at the present rate of decline.
If and when it does make to a better phone system there is a chance it make have some impact that will have to be seen.
As for users not caring what os they have is plainly ludicrous and on what basis you make that statement is completely beyond me. It was certainly the case with symbian which was rejected by the greater buying public, who do care what their phone can do in relation to apps, social media etc.
the majority of users however do not care what their phone camera can do to a large extent as long as it takes a decent pic.
Well I will try and spell it out for you very simply then.
It is conjecture that any of the stated aims of the phone will actually come to fruition.
obviously it is not certain that the stated aims will come to fruition. that does not mean that they are 'conjecture.' have you got a word of the day calendar or something?
obviously it is not certain that the stated aims will come to fruition. that does not mean that they are 'conjecture.' have you got a word of the day calendar or something?
conjecture: the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
Just to help your understanding
You will also find strangely enough that the majority of posts on a forum are based on peoples opinion, crazy I know. Not that I have seen you offering any really
I think you will find that you should quote someone completely if you want to make a point and not take single lines out of context, I prefaced what I say with I think.
ps my word for the day tomorrow will be blinkered.
Reading though a few of the above posts I find it difficult to follow the logic of the Nokia supporters. Let us ignore any doubts about the 808's image quality and assume that the explanations of Nokia's reasoning are correct. In that case they spent 5 years developing a 41mp sensor, which is overkill even for top end cameras never mind a phone, then had to launch it as a technology demonstrator because they did not have a competitive smart phone OS capable of using it. It is hard to think of a more damning indictment of any company let alone one having to make major cutbacks because it is on the verge of bankruptcy.
Here is some more conjecture for you: Nokia themselves don't have much expectation of sales of this phone. No-one does, although it will be a possible upgrade to some of the N8 owners still out there.
It has already done its job of making a splash at MWC and capturing a good deal of the press attention at the conference. Bringing it to market (with the minimum effort they can) will also generate a few more press headlines. They need it to be saleable and not get a vapourware tag attached to it. An example is that the 808 will not be offered by any carriers in the U.S. (unlike the 900 and 710 lumias which got marketing support from AT&T and T-Mobile respectively), it is only being sold sim-free.
Nokia know what they need to do, it's why they've focused all their attention on a modern operating system and allied with a company that has the chance to make the best ecosystem around.
If I had cash to burn, I would consider buying it as a camera with phone features attached, not as a phone. There are some people out there who are not really interested in all the features of modern smartphones but do need a basic phone but are interested in having a camera that they can carry around at all times, this fills that niche.
Here is some more conjecture for you: Nokia themselves don't have much expectation of sales of this phone. No-one does, although it will be a possible upgrade to some of the N8 owners still out there.
It has already done its job of making a splash at MWC and capturing a good deal of the press attention at the conference. Bringing it to market (with the minimum effort they can) will also generate a few more press headlines. They need it to be saleable and not get a vapourware tag attached to it. An example is that the 808 will not be offered by any carriers in the U.S. (unlike the 900 and 710 lumias which got marketing support from AT&T and T-Mobile respectively), it is only being sold sim-free.
Nokia know what they need to do, it's why they've focused all their attention on a modern operating system and allied with a company that has the chance to make the best ecosystem around.
It did make a splash at MWC I totally agree where it was roundly mocked as a waste of time. A massively failing company is releasing products they dont think will sell well now that is forward thinking know wonder they wont be around in a couple of years time.
Reading though a few of the above posts I find it difficult to follow the logic of the Nokia supporters. Let us ignore any doubts about the 808's image quality and assume that the explanations of Nokia's reasoning are correct. In that case they spent 5 years developing a 41mp sensor, which is overkill even for top end cameras never mind a phone, then had to launch it as a technology demonstrator because they did not have a competitive smart phone OS capable of using it. It is hard to think of a more damning indictment of any company let alone one having to make major cutbacks because it is on the verge of bankruptcy.
If you've read through the posts, you'd know the 41MP is for a) oversampling to get good 5MP and 8MP shots and b) makes digital zoom viable.
Ordinary cameras can use optical zoom, can have larger lenses etc. This is about solving a problem specifically for cameras on phones which are slowly destroying the compact camera market anyway - i.e. no space for optical zoom.
Comments
Guess it depends on how much video you record, I can comfortably get 5 hours of HD video on my iPhone and that's with all my apps and stuff.
Look at the GSMArena comparison again, the N8 is 'A' and the Galaxy S3 is 'B' - they're right next to each other.
There is absolutely no question which is better; the N8's crops are completely lacking in detail, which is the exact opposite of what should theoretically be the case given the shot was down-sampled from a higher-resolution original.
Again, I have to disagree.
None of the phones get anywhere near the quality of the PEN and beyond that all that can definitively be started is that there are three phones that captured decent images and two that captured crap ones, once you start to rank them within those groups it then becomes extremely subjective.
Since I only joined this forum last month, I'm struggling to see how you can say that.
And if you'd been cyber-stalking me, then you'd know that whether you consider it objectively or subjectively, that post doesn't get close to my all-time, top ten crap posts
As for the technology, I know how it works and I stand by my comments.
you are well informed yet you wrote this: which is utter utter nonsense.
the gsm arena test you link to is ridiculous. the N8 image has been resized from 4000x3000 to 3264x2448 not a resize that is going to do the image any good you are examining it on a per pixel level. and then resized as a lossy jpeg
the s3 image has been sharpened. presumably by the phone itself.
you can see the quality of the N8's sensor by looking at the diagonal line on the OMV board. see how it's all jagged on the s3 and a smooth line on the N8.
also take a look at the last set, the ones with the motor bike. the n808's is by far the best image, and the N8's is much better than the S3's
the n808 is not ever going to sell in huge numbers. it's a demonstration of the pure view technology which wont disappear.
So a company in huge financial trouble is putting a phone to market that they believe won't sell very well that what your saying. If that was the case it is obviously only Nokia who think they can mess about with demonstration models right now, they should be concentrating on something that actully sells.
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_808_pureview-review-776.php
strategist are you?
the pure view camera has been in development for two years. and potentially it will be a great USP for nokia at a time when oems struggle to differentiate their hardware. they can not include it currently in the windows phone line up because WP7 can't be made to work with it.
so what would you do?
I think that for existing iPhone and Android users who rely on the enormous range of apps to customise their phone to their particular requirements, the Pureview's awesome camera isn't enough.
I'm an enthusiastic amateur photographer, and I've read a lot about this phone in great detail, but an awesome camera isn't enough. I had a Nokia N82 a couple of years back and the camera on that was great, but the quality of the Symbian apps let the phone down. In the end I was only using it for photos and Nokia Maps navigation and I got an iPhone to do email, browsing and all the other stuff.
well do you think a camera phone because lets be honest that is all it is, is going to be sufficient to lure people away from the comfort of their ios or android systems?
That camera without an app system or market leading os behind it will mean nothing to most people in the same way as the n8 meant nothing.
You say it won't work on wp if i were Nokia i would have made sure it did that phone with symbian behind it will fail and as i said Nokia is not in the position to be testing the market right now.
Don't get me wrong it is a nice feature just foolhardy.
It has taken them over 5 years to develop the technology and bring it to market. There's not a huge amount of additional cost in actually selling it now that they've made it. They aren't going to market it the way they are with WP devices. At the time of development, Symbian owned the smartphone market and there are probably still a number of symbian users (especially in emerging markets, who are still interested in a symbian phone given they tend to have hardware features that others don't have - e.g. FM transmitter).
The main point of PureView 808 in today's market is to a) keep Nokia's name in people's minds and generate positive press etc and b) to continue instilling in the public's mind an association between the Nokia brand and really good imaging technology.
There's a good chance that with the coming of WP8, windows phone will gain sufficient market share to enable Nokia to survive. Be confident that Nokia is working as fast as they can to bring elements of the pureview technology to windows phone as a USP.
I'm afraid the state of Nokia at present does not back up any of those theories.
They are literally teetering on the brink and this phone is going to do nothing to bring them back to safety and that is all they should be concerned with right now.
Especially as rumours are that MS will be making their own WP8 phones.
If MS where going to produce WP8 phones then they would have announced them at the same time as telling everyone about WP8
Why's that?
i don't know why you quoted TheBigM's post there because what you said is in no way a response to it. you've just ignored everything he's said.
I think you will find I did the post was pure conjecture .. little cost in bringing a phone to market hardly true is it, still a market for the symbian ios well clearly not this is why Nokia is in the state it is at the moment its blinkered view and juggernaut like ability to adapt to the changing market. keeping Nokias name in the forefront of image technology which again is not going to change their fortune a camera phone which this is will have little or no mass market appeal. bringing it to WP8 well it isnt at the moment so again conjecture if and when it does it may be too late for nokia.
All was summed up by the current state of nokia at present and this phone shows they do not seem to be learning hard lessons. However is that better for you now?
i find that post difficult to follow. it's incoherent.
if your point is that nokia will ultimately fail then so be it. but this thread is about the 808.
it has been explained to you the thinking behind releasing it and it's fairly well documented it is not conjecture, it's just information that is widely available.
i think your reference to 'symbian ios' may belie what informs your opinions. you do know that most people couldn't care less about their phone's operating system?
Well I will try and spell it out for you very simply then.
It is conjecture that any of the stated aims of the phone will actually come to fruition. As a phone and the reasons why I and I predict many others will not invest in one are:
It has nothing to offer other than a camera which will not bring users from other platforms on its own.
It is based upon an outdated os that has already been rejected by the buying public.
In all respects it is an average to poor smartphone for the asking price.
Now if the purpose of the phone is to promote the image quality of nokia it is a very foolhardy endeavour as they do not have at this rate much more time to turn things around. Even if this does put them at the forefront of image quality on phones that will not bring in the required customers on its own to save the company at the present rate of decline.
If and when it does make to a better phone system there is a chance it make have some impact that will have to be seen.
As for users not caring what os they have is plainly ludicrous and on what basis you make that statement is completely beyond me. It was certainly the case with symbian which was rejected by the greater buying public, who do care what their phone can do in relation to apps, social media etc.
the majority of users however do not care what their phone camera can do to a large extent as long as it takes a decent pic.
now here is some 'conjecture'
you state your own opinions as if they were fact yet reject actual facts.
conjecture: the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
Just to help your understanding
You will also find strangely enough that the majority of posts on a forum are based on peoples opinion, crazy I know. Not that I have seen you offering any really
I think you will find that you should quote someone completely if you want to make a point and not take single lines out of context, I prefaced what I say with I think.
ps my word for the day tomorrow will be blinkered.
It has already done its job of making a splash at MWC and capturing a good deal of the press attention at the conference. Bringing it to market (with the minimum effort they can) will also generate a few more press headlines. They need it to be saleable and not get a vapourware tag attached to it. An example is that the 808 will not be offered by any carriers in the U.S. (unlike the 900 and 710 lumias which got marketing support from AT&T and T-Mobile respectively), it is only being sold sim-free.
Nokia know what they need to do, it's why they've focused all their attention on a modern operating system and allied with a company that has the chance to make the best ecosystem around.
It did make a splash at MWC I totally agree where it was roundly mocked as a waste of time. A massively failing company is releasing products they dont think will sell well now that is forward thinking know wonder they wont be around in a couple of years time.
If you've read through the posts, you'd know the 41MP is for a) oversampling to get good 5MP and 8MP shots and b) makes digital zoom viable.
Ordinary cameras can use optical zoom, can have larger lenses etc. This is about solving a problem specifically for cameras on phones which are slowly destroying the compact camera market anyway - i.e. no space for optical zoom.