Finland is reported to be the best place in the world to be a mother according to Save The Children with the UK coming in at 23rd. Any thoughts rosetta?
^ Really? Well, I guess there is relatively lots of government support to mothers here, for example one can stay at home with child on a government allowance until the child is 3 years old (though most mothers go to work before that anyway :rolleyes:). And every mother-to-be gets a government maternity pack full of baby clothes etc, or alternatively a sum of money.
But the attitudes of people in general are not very child-friendly nowadays, though that goes for most Western countries these days, I'm afraid...
And one thing I must say, the school system here is way more humane than in the UK, though that's obviously to the kids mainly, not mums That was actually the main reason we moved back, but this is getting a bit too personal now...
^ Really? Well, I guess there is relatively lots of government support to mothers here, for example one can stay at home with child on a government allowance until the child is 3 years old (though most mothers go to work before that anyway :rolleyes:). And every mother-to-be gets a government maternity pack full of baby clothes etc, or alternatively a sum of money.
But the attitudes of people in general are not very child-friendly nowadays, though that goes for most Western countries these days, I'm afraid...
And one thing I must say, the school system here is way more humane than in the UK, though that's obviously to the kids mainly, not mums That was actually the main reason we moved back, but this is getting a bit too personal now...
I'm intrigued Rosie -- a humane school system :eek: -- please elaborate...maybe I'll try to move to Finland...:D
^ I didn't know you're still at school age? Or are you thinking of your kids? I don't think you'd like it here, it's cold and boring most of the time What would you like to know?
^ I didn't know you're still at school age? Or are you thinking of your kids? I don't think you'd like it here, it's cold and boring most of the time What would you like to know?
In the distant future -- for my future kids...;) I like to plan ahead...;)
I'm just someone who disliked the UK school system tremendously...
I'm intrigued by how a school system can be more humane...
What I disliked about the UK school system was the rapid rate of change - if someone in the government had a problem with the system and put a change into place, it felt quick and subsequently disjointed.
I think there's much too much bureaucracy in schools - I think a school should almost be able to run itself.
In the distant future -- for my future kids...;) I like to plan ahead...;)
I'm just someone who disliked the UK school system tremendously...
I'm intrigued by how a school system can be more humane...
OK
Well, this is such a huge issue that it's difficult to know where to start, but I chose this UK article for starters: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21354932
This is what it says about Finnish school system, and I've highlighted the most important parts (and those that differ from the UK most) in my opinion:
"Welfare society: There is an emphasis on supporting every individual, every child regardless of their economic or social background. This basic principle of equality applies to our education system but also healthcare and social care. It's an holistic approach.
We pay for it through taxes and the government tries to support every family.
Highly-qualified teachers: Our teaching profession is highly valued and respected. The programmes are highly competitive and many students do not get a place. We get highly motivated students and the five-year courses are to masters level. Even if you teach at a primary school, you need to have a masters qualification. This is not the same in other Nordic countries.
There is a relaxed atmosphere in Finnish schools
The classroom is a very interactive space where pupils can challenge the teacher. The traditional teacher-directed style is not so typical in Finland.
Local power: Municipalities and schools have a lot of power to localise the national core curriculum. We trust our teachers as they have been selected through a careful process. They are given a lot of freedom and responsibility to tailor learning according to the needs of every child. They are not just paying lip service or following a script.
There are core subjects such as literacy, numeracy and science but we try to achieve a balance in the curriculum. A school day is a mix of core subjects and also art, physical education, woodwork and entrepreneurial education (at secondary level).
The curriculum is being renewed and is due out in 2015. There will be an increase in 21st Century skills, such as collaboration, social interaction, problem solving and life-long learning, but they will not be separate from the core subjects, they will be integrated.
Other factors which impact on teaching: Class sizes are between 15 to 25 across primary and secondary schools. There are no national examinations or rankings. We don't have that culture of comparing schools. If a school is not doing well, it is not closed down. It is given more resources.
Final word: There are elements of the Finnish model which could be implemented elsewhere, such as the emphasis on high quality teachers.
The teaching environment is also important. In relaxed and educationally-supportive environments children are granted authority and accountability in and for learning. We believe that learning and interacting in relaxed educational environments will teach children for life, not for school."
Just to add a few things to this:
For me the most important thing not mentioned here is that here school starts at age 7 (or in the school year the child will turn 7), not at 5 like in the UK. And in the first years the school days are short, 4 hours is the average.
Another thing, kids are not separated in class in groups according to how well they seem to be doing - I was :eek: at that in the UK... It's so unfair to the child; it's the ones not doing well that need more support, not the other way round! :rolleyes:
Thanks Rosie -- very interesting and unfortunately all completely logical but yet rarely is that implemented here...
I do believe that teachers are the most important profession in any society...if you get the wrong type of people to teach or you misjudge how important the profession is -- everyone suffers!
Just to add a few things to this:
For me the most important thing not mentioned here is that here school starts at age 7 (or in the school year the child will turn 7), not at 5 like in the UK. And in the first years the school days are short, 4 hours is the average.
I started at age 4, as did everyone else I know (this was in 1999, so I don't know if it's changed since then). We had to wear uniform and sit formal lessons during the morning.
Well, this is such a huge issue that it's difficult to know where to start, but I chose this UK article for starters: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21354932
This is what it says about Finnish school system, and I've highlighted the most important parts (and those that differ from the UK most) in my opinion:
"Welfare society: There is an emphasis on supporting every individual, every child regardless of their economic or social background. This basic principle of equality applies to our education system but also healthcare and social care. It's an holistic approach.
We pay for it through taxes and the government tries to support every family.
Highly-qualified teachers: Our teaching profession is highly valued and respected. The programmes are highly competitive and many students do not get a place. We get highly motivated students and the five-year courses are to masters level. Even if you teach at a primary school, you need to have a masters qualification. This is not the same in other Nordic countries.
There is a relaxed atmosphere in Finnish schools
The classroom is a very interactive space where pupils can challenge the teacher. The traditional teacher-directed style is not so typical in Finland.
Local power: Municipalities and schools have a lot of power to localise the national core curriculum. We trust our teachers as they have been selected through a careful process. They are given a lot of freedom and responsibility to tailor learning according to the needs of every child. They are not just paying lip service or following a script.
There are core subjects such as literacy, numeracy and science but we try to achieve a balance in the curriculum. A school day is a mix of core subjects and also art, physical education, woodwork and entrepreneurial education (at secondary level).
The curriculum is being renewed and is due out in 2015. There will be an increase in 21st Century skills, such as collaboration, social interaction, problem solving and life-long learning, but they will not be separate from the core subjects, they will be integrated.
Other factors which impact on teaching: Class sizes are between 15 to 25 across primary and secondary schools. There are no national examinations or rankings. We don't have that culture of comparing schools. If a school is not doing well, it is not closed down. It is given more resources.
Final word: There are elements of the Finnish model which could be implemented elsewhere, such as the emphasis on high quality teachers.
The teaching environment is also important. In relaxed and educationally-supportive environments children are granted authority and accountability in and for learning. We believe that learning and interacting in relaxed educational environments will teach children for life, not for school."
Just to add a few things to this:
For me the most important thing not mentioned here is that here school starts at age 7 (or in the school year the child will turn 7), not at 5 like in the UK. And in the first years the school days are short, 4 hours is the average.
Another thing, kids are not separated in class in groups according to how well they seem to be doing - I was :eek: at that in the UK... It's so unfair to the child; it's the ones not doing well that need more support, not the other way round! :rolleyes:
The Finnish education system sounds incredible. I'm quite jealous. My time at school wasn't very exciting or challenging.
Unfortunately, the current Education minister in the UK has a ridiculous elitist and 'old fashioned' approach to how education should be. Not to mention the fact they've introduced these 'Free Schools' which cause more social division and diverts money away from the standard schools which are already strapped for cash.
I also never liked the different ability classes. At my school there were 7 sets for some subjects (Set 1 was top ability, Set 7 was bottom ability). Sadly, most of the Set 7 kids were from poor backgrounds and caused disruption in every lesson. In the end, none of them progressed and didn't have any aspiration to do well in life.
I started at age 4, as did everyone else I know (this was in 1999, so I don't know if it's changed since then). We had to wear uniform and sit formal lessons during the morning.
Yeah, I know (my (elder) daughter also started a little before she turned 5, we lived in the UK then); I meant that it's supposed to start on the term the kid turns 5, isn't it?
I also never liked the different ability classes. At my school there were 7 sets for some subjects (Set 1 was top ability, Set 7 was bottom ability). Sadly, most of the Set 7 kids were from poor backgrounds and caused disruption in every lesson. In the end, none of them progressed and didn't have any aspiration to do well in life.
That sounds horrible! One of the main reasons why I prefer the education system here (though that's one of the few things I do), and also why it achieves better results... Like I said, it's the kids who are not doing well that need extra support, not the ones who are!
(Also, I really shudder at dividing people according to whether they're from "rich" or "poor" background, that's the Finn in me I guess...)
That sounds horrible! One of the main reasons why I prefer the education system here (though that's one of the few things I do), and also why it achieves better results... Like I said, it's the kids who are not doing well that need extra support, not the ones who are!
(Also, I really shudder at dividing people according to whether they're from "rich" or "poor" background, that's the Finn in me I guess...)
Yep, that's the unintentional consequence of segregating people based on grades. For some reason, people from disadvantaged backgrounds tend do worse than people from better backgrounds. If classes were mixed ability, it would encourage those kids to try and better themselves because currently, kids in the bottom sets just give up because there is a stigma attached.
One of my teachers at school told us that there is a saying/joke amongst teachers which is "You can predict a students grade by their postcode". :eek:
Yeah, I know (my (elder) daughter also started a little before she turned 5, we lived in the UK then); I meant that it's supposed to start on the term the kid turns 5, isn't it?
Yeah, it's the academic year in which the child turns 5 (e.g. I started in at the beginning of the academic year in September 1999, and I turned 5 in March 2000 during the same academic year). To add confusion this year is called Reception, whilst the second year of school is called Year 1.
One of my teachers at school told us that there is a saying/joke amongst teachers which is "You can predict a students grade by their postcode". :eek:
That's actually one of the factors that determines predicted grades at GCSE. A friend achieved mostly As and A*s, but they were predicted all Cs because they lived in Zimbabwe until they were 9.
SO FCUKING ANNOYED. Just had Sky round to install a dish and there is ZERO signal thanks to a fcuking great big useless tree several metres away from my home next to a railway line. ALL my frigging neighbours have got a bloody dish, we're the only ones who can't get anything. Fuming.
SO FCUKING ANNOYED. Just had Sky round to install a dish and there is ZERO signal thanks to a fcuking great big useless tree several metres away from my home next to a railway line. ALL my frigging neighbours have got a bloody dish, we're the only ones who can't get anything. Fuming.
Is the tree so big they can't put the dish on a pole to help raise it above the treeline? That's what they've done on our street to avoid obstructions.
Is the tree so big they can't put the dish on a pole to help raise it above the treeline? That's what they've done on our street to avoid obstructions.
Sadly not, the house is at the bottom of a bank and the tree is on top. :mad:
Took a day off work because they could only install it today. :mad:
SO FCUKING ANNOYED. Just had Sky round to install a dish and there is ZERO signal thanks to a fcuking great big useless tree several metres away from my home next to a railway line. ALL my frigging neighbours have got a bloody dish, we're the only ones who can't get anything. Fuming.
I know how you feel, our property is slap bang behind some large Popular trees, so had no access to the satellite for years. We finally got an export round to have a look, and the only good place was a neighbours gable end, we've been friends for years and so was happy with it.
How will you watch tonight's semi-final, gotterz? :eek:
Still got Freeview but I've been looking forward to this for two weeks now so I'll probably still be pissed off tonight when the contest's on. Great. :rolleyes:
Comments
But the attitudes of people in general are not very child-friendly nowadays, though that goes for most Western countries these days, I'm afraid...
And one thing I must say, the school system here is way more humane than in the UK, though that's obviously to the kids mainly, not mums
I'm intrigued Rosie -- a humane school system :eek: -- please elaborate...maybe I'll try to move to Finland...:D
In the distant future -- for my future kids...;) I like to plan ahead...;)
I'm just someone who disliked the UK school system tremendously...
I'm intrigued by how a school system can be more humane...
I think there's much too much bureaucracy in schools - I think a school should almost be able to run itself.
Well, this is such a huge issue that it's difficult to know where to start, but I chose this UK article for starters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21354932
This is what it says about Finnish school system, and I've highlighted the most important parts (and those that differ from the UK most) in my opinion:
"Welfare society: There is an emphasis on supporting every individual, every child regardless of their economic or social background. This basic principle of equality applies to our education system but also healthcare and social care. It's an holistic approach.
We pay for it through taxes and the government tries to support every family.
Highly-qualified teachers: Our teaching profession is highly valued and respected. The programmes are highly competitive and many students do not get a place. We get highly motivated students and the five-year courses are to masters level. Even if you teach at a primary school, you need to have a masters qualification. This is not the same in other Nordic countries.
There is a relaxed atmosphere in Finnish schools
The classroom is a very interactive space where pupils can challenge the teacher. The traditional teacher-directed style is not so typical in Finland.
Local power: Municipalities and schools have a lot of power to localise the national core curriculum. We trust our teachers as they have been selected through a careful process. They are given a lot of freedom and responsibility to tailor learning according to the needs of every child. They are not just paying lip service or following a script.
There are core subjects such as literacy, numeracy and science but we try to achieve a balance in the curriculum. A school day is a mix of core subjects and also art, physical education, woodwork and entrepreneurial education (at secondary level).
The curriculum is being renewed and is due out in 2015. There will be an increase in 21st Century skills, such as collaboration, social interaction, problem solving and life-long learning, but they will not be separate from the core subjects, they will be integrated.
Other factors which impact on teaching: Class sizes are between 15 to 25 across primary and secondary schools. There are no national examinations or rankings. We don't have that culture of comparing schools. If a school is not doing well, it is not closed down. It is given more resources.
Final word: There are elements of the Finnish model which could be implemented elsewhere, such as the emphasis on high quality teachers.
The teaching environment is also important. In relaxed and educationally-supportive environments children are granted authority and accountability in and for learning. We believe that learning and interacting in relaxed educational environments will teach children for life, not for school."
Just to add a few things to this:
For me the most important thing not mentioned here is that here school starts at age 7 (or in the school year the child will turn 7), not at 5 like in the UK. And in the first years the school days are short, 4 hours is the average.
Another thing, kids are not separated in class in groups according to how well they seem to be doing - I was :eek: at that in the UK... It's so unfair to the child; it's the ones not doing well that need more support, not the other way round! :rolleyes:
I do believe that teachers are the most important profession in any society...if you get the wrong type of people to teach or you misjudge how important the profession is -- everyone suffers!
I started at age 4, as did everyone else I know (this was in 1999, so I don't know if it's changed since then). We had to wear uniform and sit formal lessons during the morning.
The Finnish education system sounds incredible. I'm quite jealous. My time at school wasn't very exciting or challenging.
Unfortunately, the current Education minister in the UK has a ridiculous elitist and 'old fashioned' approach to how education should be. Not to mention the fact they've introduced these 'Free Schools' which cause more social division and diverts money away from the standard schools which are already strapped for cash.
I also never liked the different ability classes. At my school there were 7 sets for some subjects (Set 1 was top ability, Set 7 was bottom ability). Sadly, most of the Set 7 kids were from poor backgrounds and caused disruption in every lesson. In the end, none of them progressed and didn't have any aspiration to do well in life.
That sounds horrible!
(Also, I really shudder at dividing people according to whether they're from "rich" or "poor" background, that's the Finn in me I guess...)
Yep, that's the unintentional consequence of segregating people based on grades. For some reason, people from disadvantaged backgrounds tend do worse than people from better backgrounds. If classes were mixed ability, it would encourage those kids to try and better themselves because currently, kids in the bottom sets just give up because there is a stigma attached.
One of my teachers at school told us that there is a saying/joke amongst teachers which is "You can predict a students grade by their postcode". :eek:
Yeah, it's the academic year in which the child turns 5 (e.g. I started in at the beginning of the academic year in September 1999, and I turned 5 in March 2000 during the same academic year). To add confusion this year is called Reception, whilst the second year of school is called Year 1.
That's actually one of the factors that determines predicted grades at GCSE. A friend achieved mostly As and A*s, but they were predicted all Cs because they lived in Zimbabwe until they were 9.
Here's one for the grammar police out here, a quick quiz which I failed dismally at 4/10
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22512744?sharing=true&score=2+10
Makes me nervous for Little Anzej today!
I only got 6/10!
And I still don't understand how
As a self-confessed grammar nazi, I'm a bit annoyed with myself at only getting 9/10
Show off!
Is the tree so big they can't put the dish on a pole to help raise it above the treeline? That's what they've done on our street to avoid obstructions.
Took a day off work because they could only install it today. :mad:
I know how you feel, our property is slap bang behind some large Popular trees, so had no access to the satellite for years. We finally got an export round to have a look, and the only good place was a neighbours gable end, we've been friends for years and so was happy with it.