Yes, of course Paul was better but this thread is where the small minority who think jay was better hang out.
Jay will be out soon even without the bad edits or the despicable personal insults from Simon that Paul had to put up with.
How can there be a "small minority" who think Jay was better when he actually got more votes?
Do you think that there's a load of viewers who chose to vote for Jay, who would otherwise have voted for Paul, 'the better one' if not for the manipulation?
Or is it in fact more likely that on shows like this, people simply vote for the acts they prefer rather than voting AGAINST the acts they don't?
Because what I'm seeing are a load of posters describing Paul as "better" as if this is an undisputed fact and not your opinion. And asserting that the ONLY reason he's out is nefarious manipulation. And even calling a longstanding poster like the OP a "troll" for daring to disagree.
Yet I'm seeing another bunch of people clearly describe how they found Paul dull, or technically gifted but with no star quality, or awkward on stage, etc. Not because he was too serious or stroppy as the show alleged. They're also saying that Jay may not be the likely winner but he has more 'x factor' and marketability, I.e. he's more of a package.
If manipulation worked, Christopher Maloney wouldn't have made it to the final cos no one in the history of the show got the trashing he did. Yet somehow it worked in Paul's case? Nonsense.
There are 100s of awesome singers like Paul working as backing vocalists, and they're technically far better singers than the star, e.g. someone like Katy Perry, Robbie Williams, etc. But for whatever reason, they don't have 'it', the thing that elevates someone from great singer to star...charisma, unwavering self belief, determination, charm, performance, serendipity.
How can there be a "small minority" who think Jay was better when he actually got more votes?
Do you think that there's a load of viewers who chose to vote for Jay, who would otherwise have voted for Paul, 'the better one' if not for the manipulation?
Or is it in fact more likely that on shows like this, people simply vote for the acts they prefer rather than voting AGAINST the acts they don't?
Because what I'm seeing are a load of posters describing Paul as "better" as if this is an undisputed fact and not your opinion. And asserting that the ONLY reason he's out is nefarious manipulation. And even calling a longstanding poster like the OP a "troll" for daring to disagree.
Yet I'm seeing another bunch of people clearly describe how they found Paul dull, or technically gifted but with no star quality, or awkward on stage, etc. Not because he was too serious or stroppy as the show alleged. They're also saying that Jay may not be the likely winner but he has more 'x factor' and marketability, I.e. he's more of a package.
If manipulation worked, Christopher Maloney wouldn't have made it to the final cos no one in the history of the show got the trashing he did. Yet somehow it worked in Paul's case? Nonsense.
There are 100s of awesome singers like Paul working as backing vocalists, and they're technically far better singers than the star, e.g. someone like Katy Perry, Robbie Williams, etc. But for whatever reason, they don't have 'it', the thing that elevates someone from great singer to star...charisma, unwavering self belief, determination, charm, performance, serendipity.
Good post Scarlet.:)
Apparently anybody who disliked or weren't at all interested in Paul have been "manipulated" even if he left them cold since the judges house and couldn't understand why he was put through.
It's really insulting this constant dismissal of opinion, dismissal of people who have bothered to pick up the phone and vote.
You have to be a very insecure sort of person to need everybody to agree with you and if they don't it's for some nefarious reason.
Also all this conspiracy stuff flies in the face of the download charts that have been posted here. Week after week, Paul's songs were downloaded less than others.
I prefer watching Jay, I've enjoyed some of his performances in spite of the rubbish we have had to put up with about the Navy, the baby, the wife, the record deal, the knee.
If anything, that's the negative about Jay, the baggage, and in the end it will do for him.
The manipulation works. If you watched it from the other side, you'd see it really works, and it is ridiculous. It does not work by "getting " viewers to vote for , for example in this case, Jay INSTEAD of Paul It just makes a great act look less talented and likable thanks to things like bad camera angles that don't allow for connection with viewers, unsuitable song choices, and in Pauls case, because he's such an excellent singer, they threw a ridiculously unprofessional backing in the mix for added insurance that viewers who just hear the total package would hear a rushed,uncomfortable listen of a performance but not realize why.
Many viewers don't have a fave or would throw a few votes at the best performer or singer as well. Paul is easily capable of being just that, which he consistently showed every time he wasn't forced into a slow lane.
Having said that,just because Paul was pretty much robbed of the chance to show the largely casually listening audience what he can really do in no way means Jay doesn't deserve the chance he is getting.Other than Paul and Andrea, who none of the others can touch vocally, Jay can at least match any of the acts who appeared this season, and obviously he has connected with enough people to have a fan base as an all round performer. Why shouldn't he "still be in"?I don't expect him to stay more than 2 weeks at most, but don't completely count him out, either. He has talent.
The manipulation works. If you watched it from the other side, you'd see it really works, and it is ridiculous. It does not work by "getting " viewers to vote for , for example in this case, Jay INSTEAD of Paul It just makes a great act look less talented and likable thanks to things like bad camera angles that don't allow for connection with viewers, unsuitable song choices, and in Pauls case, because he's such an excellent singer, they threw a ridiculously unprofessional backing in the mix for added insurance that viewers who just hear the total package would hear a rushed,uncomfortable listen of a performance but not realize why.
Many viewers don't have a fave or would throw a few votes at the best performer or singer as well. Paul is easily capable of being just that, which he consistently showed every time he wasn't forced into a slow lane.
Having said that,just because Paul was pretty much robbed of the chance to show the largely casually listening audience what he can really do in no way means Jay doesn't deserve the chance he is getting.Other than Paul and Andrea, who none of the others can touch vocally, Jay can at least match any of the acts who appeared this season, and obviously he has connected with enough people to have a fan base as an all round performer. Why shouldn't he "still be in"?I don't expect him to stay more than 2 weeks at most, but don't completely count him out, either. He has talent.
None of which explains how as somebody not remotely connected or that interested in the show didn't like Paul from the start.
On my part it was almost instant antipathy, didn't like the way he sang, the way he looked, anything.
And as I haven't watched seriously before, didn't recognise him at all.
And he murdered "try a little tenderness" for which I can't forgive him.
All the theorising and conspiracy talk have their place, I do agree that the show is manipulated. But what's missing is the acknowledgement that there is anything else.
It can't all be put down to TPTB when there is still a gut reaction to a performer.
Of course they would love to eliminate that, but the people carrying on about unfairness and dirty tricks do an awful lot to help push that the GBP shouldn't be trusted.
In other words, different approach, same result.
In answer to speak softly,i work with a lot of people aged 16-64.everyone who talked about x factor thought paul should have stayed. Each to their own but i cannot see how paul was bottom of the voting i know loads of people who loved him and voted.also he hadnt been bottom two before Sunday.
Speak Softly, the only think your post proves is that no matter how good a singer is, some will love them and some will think they sound meh or even annoying.(Which is why anyone who can't handle being told they suck, weather closer to a Jedward or a Leona, it's gonna happen, is in the wrong business)The manipulation still works as I explained it, which is why it is employed in the way it is.
As to who shouldn't be trusted, suit yourself, but let others do the same.
In answer to speak softly,i work with a lot of people aged 16-64.everyone who talked about x factor thought paul should have stayed. Each to their own but i cannot see how paul was bottom of the voting i know loads of people who loved him and voted.also he hadnt been bottom two before Sunday.
Always a but................:D
Just as an aside, just spent the last ten minutes watching Will Young, from the Pop Idol show and other videos. If ever there was an argument that the manipulation only goes so far, him winning proves it.
WY became the winner the night he performed Jackie Wilson's "Sweetest Feeling", nothing the judges, producers did would have changed that.
Also puts the dross we are watching now into perspective.
Just as an aside, just spent the last ten minutes watching Will Young, from the Pop Idol show and other videos. If ever there was an argument that the manipulation only goes so far, him winning proves it.
WY became the winner the night he performed Jackie Wilson's "Sweetest Feeling", nothing the judges, producers did would have changed that.
Also puts the dross we are watching now into perspective.
Those were the days when we had proper talent and I used to vote Will Young cost me a fortune in votes I still go to see him when he tours
Well this place is hilarious today - 'tragedy' 'travesty' 'scandal' being thrown around.
I think Jay is bloody gorgeous and has a rich, very listenable voice. Paul, on the other hand, is (for me) a weaker, less attractive version of what we already have in Ben Haenow (hey now).
I much preferred Jay's performance in the sing-off.
At the end of the day, he got more votes. Suck it up.
I was not a massive fan of Paul's, but I thought that he blew Jay out of the water in the sing off away from one or two struggles with the high notes.
And Jay only got more votes than Paul because of how much he has been pushed in this series compared to Paul, he'll probably be on late with the best song again on Saturday.
Just as an aside, just spent the last ten minutes watching Will Young, from the Pop Idol show and other videos. If ever there was an argument that the manipulation only goes so far, him winning proves it.
WY became the winner the night he performed Jackie Wilson's "Sweetest Feeling", nothing the judges, producers did would have changed that.
Also puts the dross we are watching now into
perspective.
Buts are an allowable connective you know and as for will young he won when back chatted cowell as well as having a good voice
I was not a massive fan of Paul's, but I thought that he blew Jay out of the water in the sing off away from one or two struggles with the high notes.
And Jay only got more votes than Paul because of how much he has been pushed in this series compared to Paul, he'll probably be on late with the best song again on Saturday.
Buts are an allowable connective you know and as for will young he won when back chatted cowell as well as having a good voice
So that kind of blows the argument that Paul was picked on for doing that out of the water doesn't it?
WY has a unique voice, the public's reaction was absolutely genuine, you can see it happening in that series.
The first series wasn't a hyped up bear pit of a show, it had integrity, something that's lacking now.
And Gareth Gates was no slouch as a runner up.
But Paul would never in a million years ever get that same response regardless of what the producers/SC do.
Pop Idol was a new concept everything is tainted now with manipulation and cynicism sadly. I think paul was targeted for exit from week 4 whereas will young wasnt but hey ho whats done is done
Comments
How can there be a "small minority" who think Jay was better when he actually got more votes?
Do you think that there's a load of viewers who chose to vote for Jay, who would otherwise have voted for Paul, 'the better one' if not for the manipulation?
Or is it in fact more likely that on shows like this, people simply vote for the acts they prefer rather than voting AGAINST the acts they don't?
Because what I'm seeing are a load of posters describing Paul as "better" as if this is an undisputed fact and not your opinion. And asserting that the ONLY reason he's out is nefarious manipulation. And even calling a longstanding poster like the OP a "troll" for daring to disagree.
Yet I'm seeing another bunch of people clearly describe how they found Paul dull, or technically gifted but with no star quality, or awkward on stage, etc. Not because he was too serious or stroppy as the show alleged. They're also saying that Jay may not be the likely winner but he has more 'x factor' and marketability, I.e. he's more of a package.
If manipulation worked, Christopher Maloney wouldn't have made it to the final cos no one in the history of the show got the trashing he did. Yet somehow it worked in Paul's case? Nonsense.
There are 100s of awesome singers like Paul working as backing vocalists, and they're technically far better singers than the star, e.g. someone like Katy Perry, Robbie Williams, etc. But for whatever reason, they don't have 'it', the thing that elevates someone from great singer to star...charisma, unwavering self belief, determination, charm, performance, serendipity.
Good post Scarlet.:)
Apparently anybody who disliked or weren't at all interested in Paul have been "manipulated" even if he left them cold since the judges house and couldn't understand why he was put through.
It's really insulting this constant dismissal of opinion, dismissal of people who have bothered to pick up the phone and vote.
You have to be a very insecure sort of person to need everybody to agree with you and if they don't it's for some nefarious reason.
Also all this conspiracy stuff flies in the face of the download charts that have been posted here. Week after week, Paul's songs were downloaded less than others.
I prefer watching Jay, I've enjoyed some of his performances in spite of the rubbish we have had to put up with about the Navy, the baby, the wife, the record deal, the knee.
If anything, that's the negative about Jay, the baggage, and in the end it will do for him.
Many viewers don't have a fave or would throw a few votes at the best performer or singer as well. Paul is easily capable of being just that, which he consistently showed every time he wasn't forced into a slow lane.
Having said that,just because Paul was pretty much robbed of the chance to show the largely casually listening audience what he can really do in no way means Jay doesn't deserve the chance he is getting.Other than Paul and Andrea, who none of the others can touch vocally, Jay can at least match any of the acts who appeared this season, and obviously he has connected with enough people to have a fan base as an all round performer. Why shouldn't he "still be in"?I don't expect him to stay more than 2 weeks at most, but don't completely count him out, either. He has talent.
None of which explains how as somebody not remotely connected or that interested in the show didn't like Paul from the start.
On my part it was almost instant antipathy, didn't like the way he sang, the way he looked, anything.
And as I haven't watched seriously before, didn't recognise him at all.
And he murdered "try a little tenderness" for which I can't forgive him.
All the theorising and conspiracy talk have their place, I do agree that the show is manipulated. But what's missing is the acknowledgement that there is anything else.
It can't all be put down to TPTB when there is still a gut reaction to a performer.
Of course they would love to eliminate that, but the people carrying on about unfairness and dirty tricks do an awful lot to help push that the GBP shouldn't be trusted.
In other words, different approach, same result.
As to who shouldn't be trusted, suit yourself, but let others do the same.
Always a but................:D
Just as an aside, just spent the last ten minutes watching Will Young, from the Pop Idol show and other videos. If ever there was an argument that the manipulation only goes so far, him winning proves it.
WY became the winner the night he performed Jackie Wilson's "Sweetest Feeling", nothing the judges, producers did would have changed that.
Also puts the dross we are watching now into perspective.
Those were the days when we had proper talent and I used to vote Will Young cost me a fortune in votes I still go to see him when he tours
I was not a massive fan of Paul's, but I thought that he blew Jay out of the water in the sing off away from one or two struggles with the high notes.
And Jay only got more votes than Paul because of how much he has been pushed in this series compared to Paul, he'll probably be on late with the best song again on Saturday.
Buts are an allowable connective you know and as for will young he won when back chatted cowell as well as having a good voice
Agree
So that kind of blows the argument that Paul was picked on for doing that out of the water doesn't it?
WY has a unique voice, the public's reaction was absolutely genuine, you can see it happening in that series.
The first series wasn't a hyped up bear pit of a show, it had integrity, something that's lacking now.
And Gareth Gates was no slouch as a runner up.
But Paul would never in a million years ever get that same response regardless of what the producers/SC do.
Paul just wasn't very exciting. Good singer. No X Factor. Don't see what all the fuss is about.
I like Paul singing soul music.
Paul had 2 bad song choices in the last 2 weeks - neither did him justice.