"Unionists try to portray a vote for Scottish independence as a vote against the rest of the UK (usually the English); but in fact, it is a rejection of the politcal (sic) corruption and incompetence shown by Westminster."
Aye right! You don't even have to scrape off a veneer. You can see it in these clots who dress up like Mel Gibson and shout "freedom" in the streets of Edinburgh, in the ones who mangle history and talk about the clearances and Culloden as if they were clearcut cases of English persecution, in the ones who celebrate Bannockburn but ignore the stupidity and disgrace of Flodden. You can read it in wingsoverscotland, newsnet, in forums and even in the letters page of the Herald. For some people, it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame for any of Scotland's troubles. The separatists are flatlining in the polls (the ones with some credibility), their support is "softer" than they initially believed and it is down markedly from the gerrymandered Panelbase polls. How is that list of signatures coming along?
"Unionists try to portray a vote for Scottish independence as a vote against the rest of the UK (usually the English); but in fact, it is a rejection of the politcal (sic) corruption and incompetence shown by Westminster."
Aye right! You don't even have to scrape off a veneer. You can see it in these clots who dress up like Mel Gibson and shout "freedom" in the streets of Edinburgh, in the ones who mangle history and talk about the clearances and Culloden as if they were clearcut cases of English persecution, in the ones who celebrate Bannockburn but ignore the stupidity and disgrace of Flodden. You can read it in wingsoverscotland, newsnet, in forums and even in the letters page of the Herald. For some people, it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame for any of Scotland's troubles. The separatists are flatlining in the polls (the ones with some credibility), their support is "softer" than they initially believed and it is down markedly from the gerrymandered Panelbase polls. How is that list of signatures coming along?
errrr ... what?
As soon as Mel Gibson (in reference to Braveheart) gets mentioned you know confusion will follow
"Unionists try to portray a vote for Scottish independence as a vote against the rest of the UK (usually the English); but in fact, it is a rejection of the politcal (sic) corruption and incompetence shown by Westminster."
Aye right! You don't even have to scrape off a veneer. You can see it in these clots who dress up like Mel Gibson and shout "freedom" in the streets of Edinburgh, in the ones who mangle history and talk about the clearances and Culloden as if they were clearcut cases of English persecution, in the ones who celebrate Bannockburn but ignore the stupidity and disgrace of Flodden. You can read it in wingsoverscotland, newsnet, in forums and even in the letters page of the Herald. For some people, it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame for any of Scotland's troubles. The separatists are flatlining in the polls (the ones with some credibility), their support is "softer" than they initially believed and it is down markedly from the gerrymandered Panelbase polls. How is that list of signatures coming along?
Who are these people? Have you made them up? The only really nasty, vitriolic stuff I've seen has come from your camp, I'm afraid. Only recently, a poster here was ranting and raving about 'Jocks', and the pejorative 'cybernat' (a favourite of yours) is also a favourite of politicians and trolls (who tend to ignore the xenophobic garbage coming from their own ranks).
May I ask you a question, though: what is it about Clegg, Cameron, Miliband and their Westminster cronies that you think is so great for Scotland?
"The only really nasty, vitriolic stuff I've seen has come from your camp"
Aye right! Read the forums. People told they're not "real" Scots unless they're separatists, people accused of demeaning Scotland, accused of being traitors, accused of saying Scotland is "too wee, too poor, too stupid" in a reverse psychology attempt at bullying (I've seen that one many times) and I even saw one the other day that suggested unionists should face exile once the great day has come.
Grudge, grievance and greed - that's what some separatists are all about and it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame. "Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you." Dan Fried, US diplomat.
Better check with Cybernat Central for their advice.
"The only really nasty, vitriolic stuff I've seen has come from your camp"
Aye right! Read the forums. People told they're not "real" Scots unless they're separatists, people accused of demeaning Scotland, accused of being traitors, accused of saying Scotland is "too wee, too poor, too stupid" in a reverse psychology attempt at bullying (I've seen that one many times) and I even saw one the other day that suggested unionists should face exile once the great day has come.
Grudge, grievance and greed - that's what some separatists are all about and it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame. "Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you." Dan Fried, US diplomat.
Better check with Cybernat Central for their advice.
You keep making these wild claims and spewing out abuse but you don't back up a single thing you say. To be honest, you seem very bitter and vitriolic yourself - indeed, you seem to resent the idea that there is a discussion of Scottish independence at all. I have not seen anyone claim that Scots who are against independence are not 'real Scots'. I suspect you just made it up. I have seen your camp claim that Scotland is "too poor" (in this very thread, actually, and in media depictions of "Skintland") and "too stupid" to govern itself (also in this very thread, in which we were told that we'd elect a fascist party of stormtroopers if we had the temerity to leave the glory of Westminster). Try reading it. You yourself are still using the childish, pejorative "cybernat" phrase which you've been duly taught by your favoured politicians.
May I ask you a question, though: what is it about Clegg, Cameron, Miliband and their Westminster cronies that you think is so great for Scotland?
"The only really nasty, vitriolic stuff I've seen has come from your camp"
which camp might that be, yes campaign supporters are many & varied, vote for lots of different partys ... some are even not aligned to any party
Aye right! Read the forums. People told they're not "real" Scots unless they're separatists, people accused of demeaning Scotland, accused of being traitors, accused of saying Scotland is "too wee, too poor, too stupid" in a reverse psychology attempt at bullying (I've seen that one many times) and I even saw one the other day that suggested unionists should face exile once the great day has come.
Grudge, grievance and greed - that's what some separatists are all about and it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame. "Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you." Dan Fried, US diplomat.
run that by me again, seems based on better together handbook?
Better check with Cybernat Central for their advice.
there is no dictating central control for the online 70% PRO-indy supporters .... why the shrinking minority call all independence supporters online cybernats & drone on about independence being a bad thing I don't know
I even saw one the other day that suggested unionists should face exile once the great day has come.
Well some unionists have suggested they are leaving anyway, but i wouldn't exile you when the great day comes, i would want you to remain and see just how wrong you unionists were in what a future Independent Scotland would be like. I would like you to become proud (grudgingly) of the great little country we become as we take our place once again among the Nation states of the world, contributing /playing our part in our own little way. Exile you, nah, you'll remain here and suffer the indignity of being Scottish, not British, till your dying days.
Labour will be tougher on benefits. Labour approves of Free Schools in England - vote no for more of the same - just a change of personnel doling out the same useless and for some, toxic medicine.
May I ask you a question, though: what is it about Clegg, Cameron, Miliband and their Westminster cronies that you think is so great for Scotland?
That's a very stupid question if I may say so.
A better one would be what use are any of the above to England never mind Scotland? Answer no use whatsoever.
Clegg has ditched any principles he had to get a bit of glory in power ; Cameron is a typical Tory intent on keeping the masses in their place and Miliband is just a joke and leader of a party that couldn't manage immigration or the economy or anything else really.
The only blame I can attach to the Scots is that they gave us Blair and Brown - unforgivable!!
One more grouse only the Scots can kick these useless corrupt politicians into touch and that makes me even more irritated.
When us Scots got our referendum I was naive enough to think that your outlook would be the norm. That those from outside Scotland would wish us luck and see it as a chance to effect change, a revolution. Winning the referendum next year would be the start, choosing a new style of Government after that is the real goal,replacing Westminster with a Scottish styled Westminster would be a big fail. I'm liking the Common Weal blue print, so before Labour, Tory, Lib Dems and SNP start telling us why they should be running an independent Scotland, we the people should be demanding a new start, and as in the Declaration Of Arbroath, if the should waiver from that path we will drive them out. Governments are not elected to rule they're elected to serve.
Inequality has been rising for 30 years. The gap between rich and poor is the widest since the second world war. If current trends continue, we will have reached Victorian levels of inequality in 20 years.
I think it's too late for the No vote. unless there is a mighty swing, it looks like the SNP will have lost when it comes to independence (at least for a generation or two).
I think it's too late for the No vote. unless there is a mighty swing, it looks like the SNP will have lost when it comes to independence (at least for a generation or two).
Will Salmond step down?
Did you mean 'Yes'? At any rate, that seems a bizarre statement when the referendum is still a year away, polls consistently show the 'No' campaign losing ground (even if 'Yes' doesn't seem to be gaining) and the 'don't knows' looking to swing it. Bear in mind, the ballyhooed White Paper is to be released next month, and will apparently detail plans for the structure of an independent Scotland. I'm not sure how one can say that it's "too late" for either side when there is nearly a full year of debate still to take place.
Has the SNP detailed yet what will happen in relation to an independent Scotland in the EU?
The SNP has stated that Scotland would negotiate expedited EU membership between a 'Yes' vote and the official start of independence in 2016. Various EU officials have given their opinions on this (sometimes conflicting) but the EU as an institution has not given an official pronouncement, claiming that it can only answer for the record if Westminster (or rather the government in power in its member state of the UK) asks. Cameron has refused to do this, because he says he does not want to prenegotiate (or risk settling an issue it is useful for him to keep murky). The fact that the people of Scotland would like an official EU answer means nothing to Westminster, for all their spurious claims that people deserve 'all the facts'.
The SNP has stated that Scotland would negotiate expedited EU membership between a 'Yes' vote and the official start of independence in 2016. Various EU officials have given their opinions on this (sometimes conflicting) but the EU as an institution has not given an official pronouncement, claiming that it can only answer for the record if Westminster (or rather the government in power in its member state of the UK) asks. Cameron has refused to do this, because he says he does not want to prenegotiate (or risk settling an issue it is useful for him to keep murky). The fact that the people of Scotland would like an official EU answer means nothing to Westminster, for all their spurious claims that people deserve 'all the facts'.
I suppose if Scottish independence was to come about then they should not have much of a problem joining the EU... what other state would object? ... none I would think. They would surely also have strong support from London and the likes of Dublin who would actually loose out in term of trade in a Scotland outside the EU.
Would a Scottish constitution also have to be drafted up and voted on too?
I suppose if Scottish independence was to come about then they should not have much of a problem joining the EU... what other state would object? ... none I would think. They would surely also have strong support from London and the likes of Dublin who would actually loose out in term of trade in a Scotland outside the EU.
Would a Scottish constitution also have to be drafted up and voted on too?
BIB - any state with a separatist movement of its own for a start. For example why should Spain vote for Scotland to join \ rejoin the EU when they have separatists of their own in the Basque region and Catalonia amongst others which they do not want to give succour to ?
I suppose if Scottish independence was to come about then they should not have much of a problem joining the EU... what other state would object? ... none I would think. They would surely also have strong support from London and the likes of Dublin who would actually loose out in term of trade in a Scotland outside the EU.
Would a Scottish constitution also have to be drafted up and voted on too?
People have suggested that Spain would object (not that they've asked Spain; they just like to imagine they can speak for what the Spanish might do) - I believe that the underhand Ruth Davidson even had secret talks with a Spanish minister, presumably trying to drum up anti-Scottish support in the event of independence. Realistically, though, I suspect that the UK is more likely to be outside of the EU in the coming years than an independent Scotland. Certainly, that's what the strong anti-EU sentiment we often see suggests. Thanks to UKIP, even the Tories are now eager to give the predominantly English anti-EU voters a chance to drag the entire UK out.
A Scottish referendum would have to be drafted, but I don't think there is much call for a referendum on it.
no one would object, however the terms of the agreement might be a little sour for some scots to take. They certainly wouldn't be getting some sort of super state status like the UK currently has.
BIB - any state with a separatist movement of its own for a start. For example why should Spain vote for Scotland to join \ rejoin the EU when they have separatists of their own in the Basque region and Catalonia amongst others which they do not want to give succour to ?
But realistically Basque region and Catalonia will probably never gain independence from Spain and never be applying for EU membership... What grounds could they realistically object on?
no one would object, however the terms of the agreement might be a little sour for some scots to take. They certainly wouldn't be getting some sort of super state status like the UK currently has.
Would be along the lines of us in Ireland I would imagine...
Comments
Aye right! You don't even have to scrape off a veneer. You can see it in these clots who dress up like Mel Gibson and shout "freedom" in the streets of Edinburgh, in the ones who mangle history and talk about the clearances and Culloden as if they were clearcut cases of English persecution, in the ones who celebrate Bannockburn but ignore the stupidity and disgrace of Flodden. You can read it in wingsoverscotland, newsnet, in forums and even in the letters page of the Herald. For some people, it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame for any of Scotland's troubles. The separatists are flatlining in the polls (the ones with some credibility), their support is "softer" than they initially believed and it is down markedly from the gerrymandered Panelbase polls. How is that list of signatures coming along?
As soon as Mel Gibson (in reference to Braveheart) gets mentioned you know confusion will follow
Who are these people? Have you made them up? The only really nasty, vitriolic stuff I've seen has come from your camp, I'm afraid. Only recently, a poster here was ranting and raving about 'Jocks', and the pejorative 'cybernat' (a favourite of yours) is also a favourite of politicians and trolls (who tend to ignore the xenophobic garbage coming from their own ranks).
May I ask you a question, though: what is it about Clegg, Cameron, Miliband and their Westminster cronies that you think is so great for Scotland?
The Mail's favorite photo,
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/10/article-2451611-1822D64100000578-90_634x416.jpg
Stanley Odd - Marriage Counselling
Aye right! Read the forums. People told they're not "real" Scots unless they're separatists, people accused of demeaning Scotland, accused of being traitors, accused of saying Scotland is "too wee, too poor, too stupid" in a reverse psychology attempt at bullying (I've seen that one many times) and I even saw one the other day that suggested unionists should face exile once the great day has come.
Grudge, grievance and greed - that's what some separatists are all about and it will always be "the auld enemy" to blame. "Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you." Dan Fried, US diplomat.
Better check with Cybernat Central for their advice.
You keep making these wild claims and spewing out abuse but you don't back up a single thing you say. To be honest, you seem very bitter and vitriolic yourself - indeed, you seem to resent the idea that there is a discussion of Scottish independence at all. I have not seen anyone claim that Scots who are against independence are not 'real Scots'. I suspect you just made it up. I have seen your camp claim that Scotland is "too poor" (in this very thread, actually, and in media depictions of "Skintland") and "too stupid" to govern itself (also in this very thread, in which we were told that we'd elect a fascist party of stormtroopers if we had the temerity to leave the glory of Westminster). Try reading it. You yourself are still using the childish, pejorative "cybernat" phrase which you've been duly taught by your favoured politicians.
May I ask you a question, though: what is it about Clegg, Cameron, Miliband and their Westminster cronies that you think is so great for Scotland?
Well some unionists have suggested they are leaving anyway, but i wouldn't exile you when the great day comes, i would want you to remain and see just how wrong you unionists were in what a future Independent Scotland would be like. I would like you to become proud (grudgingly) of the great little country we become as we take our place once again among the Nation states of the world, contributing /playing our part in our own little way. Exile you, nah, you'll remain here and suffer the indignity of being Scottish, not British, till your dying days.
"The Red Cross is to start collecting food for families in the UK who are struggling to feed themselves."
Vote no for this?
That's a very stupid question if I may say so.
A better one would be what use are any of the above to England never mind Scotland? Answer no use whatsoever.
Clegg has ditched any principles he had to get a bit of glory in power ; Cameron is a typical Tory intent on keeping the masses in their place and Miliband is just a joke and leader of a party that couldn't manage immigration or the economy or anything else really.
The only blame I can attach to the Scots is that they gave us Blair and Brown - unforgivable!!
One more grouse only the Scots can kick these useless corrupt politicians into touch and that makes me even more irritated.
Take your chance get out in 2014!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOJ93tAbPP0
Inequality has been rising for 30 years. The gap between rich and poor is the widest since the second world war. If current trends continue, we will have reached Victorian levels of inequality in 20 years.
Vote no for this?
Will Salmond step down?
Did you mean 'Yes'?
The SNP has stated that Scotland would negotiate expedited EU membership between a 'Yes' vote and the official start of independence in 2016. Various EU officials have given their opinions on this (sometimes conflicting) but the EU as an institution has not given an official pronouncement, claiming that it can only answer for the record if Westminster (or rather the government in power in its member state of the UK) asks. Cameron has refused to do this, because he says he does not want to prenegotiate (or risk settling an issue it is useful for him to keep murky). The fact that the people of Scotland would like an official EU answer means nothing to Westminster, for all their spurious claims that people deserve 'all the facts'.
Would a Scottish constitution also have to be drafted up and voted on too?
BIB - any state with a separatist movement of its own for a start. For example why should Spain vote for Scotland to join \ rejoin the EU when they have separatists of their own in the Basque region and Catalonia amongst others which they do not want to give succour to ?
People have suggested that Spain would object (not that they've asked Spain; they just like to imagine they can speak for what the Spanish might do) - I believe that the underhand Ruth Davidson even had secret talks with a Spanish minister, presumably trying to drum up anti-Scottish support in the event of independence. Realistically, though, I suspect that the UK is more likely to be outside of the EU in the coming years than an independent Scotland. Certainly, that's what the strong anti-EU sentiment we often see suggests. Thanks to UKIP, even the Tories are now eager to give the predominantly English anti-EU voters a chance to drag the entire UK out.
A Scottish referendum would have to be drafted, but I don't think there is much call for a referendum on it.