Localism Bill

Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1337597/Locals-new-rights-save-pub-post-office-closure.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Guess the post offices, libraries, etc will be run by the people who used to run them before the cuts put them out of a job.

The experience will be good for jobs they apply for in the future
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Comments

  • MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    Yes - they will launch the localism bill on Monday - and then announce the council cuts later in the afternoon when the grant settlements for police and local authorities for the next two years are announced.

    More freedom - less money.:D
  • WokStationWokStation Posts: 23,112
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    The planning aspect is becoming known as the "no-calism bill". How many people are going to vote for a new supermarket, housing development, waste treatment plant, etc? A NIMBY charter, almost.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,009
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    This 'Big Society' thing has some problems. It all depends on local communities supporting it ... in other words doing things for nothing.

    Referenda have been proposed but nobody has said who will organise, pay for, or pose the questions asked.

    If communities wanted this they would have asked for it. The fact is that they haven't. Whitehall has come up with this idea which I heard described recently as a 'nutter's charter'.

    What will it do for your area in terms of security, individual performance, appearance and looks, convenience, economy, and sustainability?

    In planning terms it is a potential nightmare.

    Some Tory drip has dreamt this up and it will be one of the most divisive things that could happen to society in general.

    There has been hardly any public debate. Well, we didn't ask for it or there would have been.

    Now is the time for debate so please discuss it and tell your council and MP that it is stupidity wrapped up in Whitehall's usual spin. :eek:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,009
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    I am going to bump this because so many people are fixated by the student demonstrations that they are going to miss this really important bill.

    Unless someone brings it to everyone's attention then the structure of society will be lost.

    Please look up 'Big Society' and then think what this is going to cost you and your community.

    Police costs are being cut so people will be able to steal from you.

    You will find public transport cut, or fares increased at over inflation rates. This will affect your mobility and performance.

    Your area will be overdeveloped to gain reward money from government. What will this do for the appearance of your community?

    Life will be harder and more inconvenient as services get cut because there is nobody to run them. If you are disabled or old then it's tough.

    Everything will be more expensive ... not just because of 20% VAT. Supply and Demand is the governing factor.

    The sustainability of small communities might be viable because of synergy. In larger communities it may result in social breakdown and riots.

    This is a dream of some idiot in Whitehall. It is not the dream of the people.

    So, come on, get off your sofa and say something to your council, MP, anyone. Make it the talking point in the pub.

    Please do something. If you want a riot then this is a cause.

    Fees for university aren't a need, they are a 'nice to have'.

    Civilisation is a need. Don't allow it to be broken by some Whitehall adviser.
  • MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    Sorry - the localism bill is not the important thing being announced on Monday.

    Monday is the day Pickles announces the cuts being faced by each council, police and fire authority in England over the next few years. It also the day when the schools funding and pupil premium allocations will be confirmed.

    That's around £60bn of funding being distributed in one day across England.

    That's the big news i.e. how many police/firefighters/social workers will your council etc have to cut. Monday is the day the cuts hit your local services - and it won't be an even picture across the country.

    Planning issues are terribly interesting - but not as important as police. elderly care and schools.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,009
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    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    Sorry - the localism bill is not the important thing being announced on Monday.

    Monday is the day Pickles announces the cuts being faced by each council, police and fire authority in England over the next few years. It also the day when the schools funding and pupil premium allocations will be confirmed.

    That's around £60bn of funding being distributed in one day across England.

    That's the big news i.e. how many police/firefighters/social workers will your council etc have to cut. Monday is the day the cuts hit your local services - and it won't be an even picture across the country.

    Planning issues are terribly interesting - but not as important as police. elderly care and schools.

    Good point, although the two issues are intertwined. Whitehall cuts the bugdets to councils and the councils pass it to Parishes to do the work for them. Parishes may have local expertise but they are amateurs. We need professionals to run local services ... especially planning.

    I share your concerns but I think we are on the same page of the song book. :cool:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 402
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    One of the reasons why the Post Office is so weak, is most of their service was handed over to the private sector, that Pay Point company - for example. Politicians obviously don't care about the service, otherwise they wouldn't have cut it down.
  • MandarkMandark Posts: 47,929
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    The Localism Bill is going to be a piece of junk only fit for the shredder. As I've said before it's a Tory middle class fantasy based on the myth that government bureaucrats like to ignore the public and do whatever they feel like. With localism, the villagers get to say what's what and make the professionals do their bidding. Poppycock as Tories might say!! There's a reason why the system is as it is. It's pretty air to all sides that's why.
  • cpu121cpu121 Posts: 5,330
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    MalUK wrote: »
    One of the reasons why the Post Office is so weak, is most of their service was handed over to the private sector, that Pay Point company - for example. Politicians obviously don't care about the service, otherwise they wouldn't have cut it down.
    On similar lines the Post Office was told to implement a computer system in all branches that would work with the proposed Benefits Payment Card. Then the Government directed the Benefits Office to drop the BPC and pay benefits directly into bank accounts, screwing the Post Office. It nearly happened again with the Post Office Card Account in 2008.

    Many Post Offices were rightly closed during the Network Reinvention programme - the business simply wasn't there. In many cases the social arguments didn't stand up to close scrunity either - if half the people who signed petitions against PO closures actually used the PO, it wouldn't be facing closure in the first place. But what was really disgraceful was the politicians who would vote for PO closures in Parliament and then campaign against the closures at constituency meetings.
  • MandarkMandark Posts: 47,929
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    Mandark wrote: »
    The Localism Bill is going to be a piece of junk only fit for the shredder. As I've said before it's a Tory middle class fantasy based on the myth that government bureaucrats like to ignore the public and do whatever they feel like. With localism, the villagers get to say what's what and make the professionals do their bidding. Poppycock as Tories might say!! There's a reason why the system is as it is. It's pretty air to all sides that's why.
    That should read fair.
  • CLL DodgeCLL Dodge Posts: 115,621
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    Pickles was just made to look a complete plonker over this on BBC1.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,104
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    It is important for local communities to come together and have a say, that can't be disputed.

    But this localism bill is just effectively a way of the coalition government to not run important services, to wash their hands off any responsibility and effectively part of the agenda of shrinking the state. Now of course, if communities can do things that are useful, then that is welcomed. But this is designed to cut public services, not to help communities etc... If communities can run things, then fine, in fact, good but it appears they won't be getting any government money, it's not 'localism', a lot of this is pure privatization which is what the tories have always wanted to do.

    The problem of saying that communities can purely decide on their own where for example a wind farm goes, there is mostly going to be a 'NIMBY' attitude. A system based purely on that is ridiculous and unworkable. Instead, what has to happen is that the system can be reformed and still increasing the involvement of communities more; they just can't use it as an excuse to cut things, etc..

    As for the local government settlement, again, huge cuts, a lot of the ring fencing removed, the words of 'decentralisation' used all the time by people like Pickles. He actually stood in parliament last weel and claimed he didn't understand why there had to be forced redundancies in local government !!! Unbelievable, but not surprised when someone as clueless as this individual is speaking. He then claimed that any compulsory redundancies would not be his fault and it was the fault of local councils. So he let the cat out of the bag, this is designed purely so that when for example the local youth centre closes, the childrens services is cut, Pickles then wants to simply say that it's not his fault and that the council was not 'efficient' enough. According to a newspaper article this morning, he isn't even liked by people working in his own department. I seriously couldn't believe what I was hearing when he spoke....
  • AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,469
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1337597/Locals-new-rights-save-pub-post-office-closure.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Guess the post offices, libraries, etc will be run by the people who used to run them before the cuts put them out of a job.

    The experience will be good for jobs they apply for in the future

    I love my library and use it regularly and I and several others that I know would happily staff it to keep it going if necessary.
  • Judge MentalJudge Mental Posts: 18,593
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    glory1986 wrote: »
    It is important for local communities to come together and have a say, that can't be disputed.

    But this localism bill is just effectively a way of the coalition government to not run important services, to wash their hands off any responsibility and effectively part of the agenda of shrinking the state. Now of course, if communities can do things that are useful, then that is welcomed. But this is designed to cut public services, not to help communities etc... If communities can run things, then fine, in fact, good but it appears they won't be getting any government money, it's not 'localism', a lot of this is pure privatization which is what the tories have always wanted to do.

    The problem of saying that communities can purely decide on their own where for example a wind farm goes, there is mostly going to be a 'NIMBY' attitude. A system based purely on that is ridiculous and unworkable. Instead, what has to happen is that the system can be reformed and still increasing the involvement of communities more; they just can't use it as an excuse to cut things, etc..

    As for the local government settlement, again, huge cuts, a lot of the ring fencing removed, the words of 'decentralisation' used all the time by people like Pickles. He actually stood in parliament last weel and claimed he didn't understand why there had to be forced redundancies in local government !!! Unbelievable, but not surprised when someone as clueless as this individual is speaking. He then claimed that any compulsory redundancies would not be his fault and it was the fault of local councils. So he let the cat out of the bag, this is designed purely so that when for example the local youth centre closes, the childrens services is cut, Pickles then wants to simply say that it's not his fault and that the council was not 'efficient' enough. According to a newspaper article this morning, he isn't even liked by people working in his own department. I seriously couldn't believe what I was hearing when he spoke....

    He has absolute contempt for local government - he was talking absolute rubbish on the Politics Show.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,104
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    He has absolute contempt for local government - he was talking absolute rubbish on the Politics Show.

    I didn't watch the politics show this morning. As I explained above, I watched the absolute rubbish he was talking in parliament;, what he was saying was ridiculous and filled with absolute lies.

    However, from what I've heard not just in the media but from people in the know,as well as his actions, he does have absolute contempt for local government.

    He has no undestanding of the importance of local government, the crucial services it provides, how crucial an effective local government is to the lives of so many peoples and to the cities and regions of this country. He sees it as part of the 'big state' which needs to be cut down to an absolute minimum as part of an ideological agenda.

    As I said in my above post, in one of the newspapers this morning, it claimed that even his own officials can't stand him.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,009
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    glory1986 wrote: »
    I didn't watch the politics show this morning. As I explained above, I watched the absolute rubbish he was talking in parliament;, what he was saying was ridiculous and filled with absolute lies.

    However, from what I've heard not just in the media but from people in the know,as well as his actions, he does have absolute contempt for local government.

    He has no undestanding of the importance of local government, the crucial services it provides, how crucial an effective local government is to the lives of so many peoples and to the cities and regions of this country. He sees it as part of the 'big state' which needs to be cut down to an absolute minimum as part of an ideological agenda.

    As I said in my above post, in one of the newspapers this morning, it claimed that even his own officials can't stand him.

    Eric Pickles is scary. He is everything I cannot stand about Conservative politicians. They seem to know nothing when questioned by specialist political interviewers.

    Let's face it, Pickles won't notice if services are cut at local level. I doubt he lives close enough to anyone that a neighbour building an extension will bother him.

    Just like pre-1997 all over again. :mad:
  • MandarkMandark Posts: 47,929
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    sirpipe wrote: »
    Eric Pickles is scary. He is everything I cannot stand about Conservative politicians. They seem to know nothing when questioned by specialist political interviewers.

    Let's face it, Pickles won't notice if services are cut at local level. I doubt he lives close enough to anyone that a neighbour building an extension will bother him.

    Just like pre-1997 all over again. :mad:
    He's the sort of super arrogant brainless Tory politician that I thought we'd got rid of. Well at least from high office. Unfortunately he seems to be on the same big society wavelength as Cameron, so he won't be dropped easily.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,009
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    Mandark wrote: »
    He's the sort of super arrogant brainless Tory politician that I thought we'd got rid of. Well at least from high office. Unfortunately he seems to be on the same big society wavelength as Cameron, so he won't be dropped easily.

    I read a biographical article on him today and it is quite frightening to look at his background as a local councillor.

    Anyway fat b@stards like him will probably be dead before his stupid bill get to be law. I hope the Lords will take the bill apart as it has no plans for how it will work. The whole thing is like a fantasy. :eek:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,400
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    Its all just a back door way of getting shot of services. Personally i think councils should play him at his own game & absolutley mssacre everything to show people just what tory governments are all about or the councilors should resign en-block & force the issue at the ballot box.

    Blackpools childrens services is under the kosh due to the massive influx of problem familes from other areas in the past 2 years. The tory council has brought in PWC to audit the depts books & have found that savings can be made , but surley if you are paying a head of dept £100k pa then he should be more than capable of finding the savings rather than paying PWC to do it.

    :)
  • AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,469
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    Mandark wrote: »
    He's the sort of super arrogant brainless Tory politician that I thought we'd got rid of. Well at least from high office. Unfortunately he seems to be on the same big society wavelength as Cameron, so he won't be dropped easily.

    He has an impressive track record imo.

    "Eric has a long career of work in local Government and working for local communities.

    Born in Keighley, he was educated at Greenhead Grammar School and Leeds Polytechnic. He become a councillor, and went on to be Leader of Bradford City Council.

    Having run a multi-culturally diverse city like Bradford, Eric is committed to improving community harmony and encouraging communities to live and work together.

    His experience of the economic difficulties of great northern cities like Bradford spurred his commitment to improving local services and helping people by providing low council tax and value for money.

    Eric is committed to giving people a greater say over how their communities are run, and wants to hand power down to them through local Government.

    Before becoming an MP, Eric was a Member of Yorkshire Regional Health Authority and National Co-Chairman of the Joint Committee Against Racism.

    He has previously worked as a Consultant in Employment Practice and Local Government Editor for Conservative Newsline."

    All that before becoming an M.P.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,400
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    Annsyre wrote: »
    He has an impressive track record imo.

    "Eric has a long career of work in local Government and working for local communities.

    Born in Keighley, he was educated at Greenhead Grammar School and Leeds Polytechnic. He become a councillor, and went on to be Leader of Bradford City Council.

    Having run a multi-culturally diverse city like Bradford, Eric is committed to improving community harmony and encouraging communities to live and work together.

    His experience of the economic difficulties of great northern cities like Bradford spurred his commitment to improving local services and helping people by providing low council tax and value for money.

    Eric is committed to giving people a greater say over how their communities are run, and wants to hand power down to them through local Government.

    Before becoming an MP, Eric was a Member of Yorkshire Regional Health Authority and National Co-Chairman of the Joint Committee Against Racism.

    He has previously worked as a Consultant in Employment Practice and Local Government Editor for Conservative Newsline."

    All that before becoming an M.P.

    In other words a fat windbag that presided over a past it place thats no better now than it was 30 years ago. Where white flight is rife , where good money after bad is chucked at rubbish schemes & where the only growth industries are islam, alcoholism , drug abuse / selling drugs, teenage pregnancies , boredom & convenience stores selling cheap booze.

    :)
  • AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,469
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    In other words a fat windbag that presided over a past it place thats no better now than it was 30 years ago. Where white flight is rife , where good money after bad is chucked at rubbish schemes & where the only growth industries are islam, alcoholism , drug abuse / selling drugs, teenage pregnancies , boredom & convenience stores selling cheap booze.

    :)

    Not at all, he is a very good M.P. and is intelligent and well informed.

    Are you in the habit of referring to people as "fat" when trying to win an argument?
  • horwichallstarshorwichallstars Posts: 16,514
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    Hmmm - interesting one really, I will declare an interest now, I do work as a Senior Manager in local government.

    The first big issue for me is about the term community group - what community are they representing? Is that plan for them to be based on a geographical area, or based on smilar interests? Could a group based around religon (for example be a community group)

    Secondly, who would decide which group was right in thier decsion making? say if you had two groups in a village, one voted for someone and one against, who would have the final decsion? Some people may hate the idea of a Tesco, but for other, for whom vilalge shops are expensive, or who have no transport might think it's a great idea ..... will it be a case of "who shouts loudest"

    Thirdly, the whole concept of volunteers running a service is rather difficult - how do you manage them? you have no recource should they decide not to turn up one day, or do something wrong.

    Lastly, who would ever want to make the unpopular but necessary decsions? I can see this whole thing desending into fighting and bitterness that will divide rather than unite communities - unless string guidance as to what is and isn't acceptable is made

    Of course what you could do, is get represetative from communities to come together, to make decsions based on what's good for the local area .... oh hang on, we have that already, it's called a local council.

    On the funding side, it will be interesting to see (percentage wise) exaclty who the winners a losers are with local goverment cuts - I think you will find some larage shire counties in the South doing ok, with smaller councils in the north doing worst ....
  • MandarkMandark Posts: 47,929
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    Whether you like him or not, I don't think anyone could honestly defend his hopeless performance on the Politics Show where he couldn't explain how anything in his localism bill would work. If this goes through, a lot of the practicalities of the legislation will probably be decided by the courts.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 13,672
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    Mandark wrote: »
    He's the sort of super arrogant brainless Tory politician that I thought we'd got rid of. Well at least from high office. Unfortunately he seems to be on the same big society wavelength as Cameron, so he won't be dropped easily.

    I blame his parents! ;)

    From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Pickles
    He was born into a Labour supporting family – his great grandfather was one of the founders of the Independent Labour Party, and described himself as 'massively inclined' towards communism as a boy
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