Vocal talent does NOT equal record sales. Shayne was not the best vocally but had everything.
Well apparently neither does having "everything" because hes hardly had huge record sales has he. I know he had that op operation etc but the public have hardly gone out in their droves to buy his songs have they?
In Leona's case Vocal talent does equal record sales. When she was on the show I remember quite a few saying they she didnt have the x-factor or personality to win and sell records. They were wrong. Celine Dion has definately not sold records for anything other than vocal ability. She is hardly very good looking is she?
Same goes for a few others such as Alison Moyet etc.
I know what you are saying, and for boybands and other such acts it is all about looks, but I think to be truly successful and stay around for a while you have to have some degree of talent.
None of these shows have ever been anything else but a popularity contest.
One person's take on the best vocalist will be different to anothers. One person's take on likeability will be different to anothers.
The best vocalist for me in Leona's year was Robert for example. Not many agree with me probably, but I liked his voice and tone much more than I did Leona's.
Leon will always be a better singer for me than Rhydian because I prefer his tone too - I like listening to his voice, I don't like listening to Rhydians. Can the Rhyd sing? Of course! Is he a decent likeable fellow? Absolutely - I wish him every success he can find, I just wouldn't choose to listen to him sing.
Most acts who get to the finals of XF can sing as well as most people making careers out of pop music. The reason some go on to be successful and some don't isn't about vocal quality, it's more to do with them finding great original material, being marketed in the right way, generating the right publicity and so on. The world is full of people who can sing, but not all of them will be major sellers if they release an album.
I think Michelle won more because of the sympathy vote than the Scottish vote. People wanted to see the big girl win because it was a good way to give the finger to the judges, especially Pete Waterman who was spitting venom over someone like Michelle being a pop "idol"...
Leon Jackson... unlike Eoghan I can see actually see why people of all ages would like Leon. He was cute, and really not in a bad way. Leon's the sort people flock to based on the "sweet young lad" persona he had throughout the competition. His vocals do nothing for me but when you put the whole package together, you can see how he'd appeal to some.
Well apparently neither does having "everything" because hes hardly had huge record sales has he. I know he had that op operation etc but the public have hardly gone out in their droves to buy his songs have they?
I actually think Shayne is a very good singer.
When you come off a show like this it's absolutely vital that your first album is impressive.
Shayne's first album was terrible, whoever picked the songs should be fired. His follow up wasn't any better.
Vocal talent does NOT equal record sales. Shayne was not the best vocally but had everything.
Well I can think of one world wide success who proves your point wrong, Leona.
I dont know why people think Shayne Ward has failed, he's had very respectable sales.
His second album reached number 2 and sold 500K, which is hardly a failure.
Exactly the American public care about the best. We care about who we fancy or like or who is the underdog. Hence why America has that winning attitude and we most of the time fail, when up against them.
I completely agree. It's one of the (relatively few!) things that I like best about America. When I'm over there, I feel I'm being judged for myself and what I do, not what I look like, what age I am, etc., as always seems to be the case in the UK.
Anthony Callea from Australian Idol beats Will Young vocally. As do countless American Idol finalists. He did have the best voice in his set of of finalists though, although others like Rosie Ribbons (not taking into account her horrid rendition of Winner Takes it All) and that Hayley bird were pretty good too.
I for one think that the only person who can really claim to have been the best vocally in "their year" is Leona Lewis.
Which I suppose is why Simon Cowell now calls it a popularity contest, rather than a singing contest.
it is therefore no surprise to me that Leona has had more success than any other contestant.
Let me list a few:
Will Young: would never have got into the finals of pop idol, if he hadn't stood up against Cowell, I mean before then he never was even on the radar. If in that one instant he had not have said those things. Gareth Gates would have strolled it. Now I like Will and he has done well. In the end he may have won because of his vocals, but he would never have been in that position.
Michelle Mcmanus: Won because she was a big girl, she was never the best singer that year. Sunk without a trace.
Shayne Ward: got the teeny bopper vote, there were two or three better vocally in that year. He just did his bee gees bit with his high notes EVERY week. Also some shameless flirting with Sharon did him a few favours. Where is he now?
Leon Jackson: Nowhere near as vocally talented as Rhydiann, I personally didn't like Rhydian, but he was a better singer. Leon won on looks for me. He has kind of had little success.
Its obvious to me that this year vocally Alex is definately the winner, if anybody else wins, then singing has lost at the end of the day.
If we look at the American Idol final, the best singer almost every year wins. If it was an Archuletta vs Cook final here. Archuletta would win hands down, hes cuter.
Are we happy that it is now about popularity, or do we want it back to pure old singing? Lets face it half the time I cant even hear Eughan sing (if that how you spell it) as he has a troop of backing singers and dancers. Id prefer it to be just about the singers.
If the most popular win most years why do they almost always sink without trace. Leona was the best singer and she has flourished. Its no surprise to me.
I agree with everything in your post apart from the Archuleta Vs Cook part. Never understood why Cook won.. he sounds just like every other rock singer to me.
Will did win because of his voice, or do you actually think that Gareth's was better? :rolleyes:
Will did not win because he spoke back to Simon; he did that very early on in the live shows and Gareth remained favourite for many weeks after it.
Will won purely on the quality of his voice, which was FAR superior to Gareth's, who get as far as he did PURELY on looks and sob story.
I think Will's voice is still the best male vocal we've ever had on these shows actually.
I think you are right about his voice ive never disputed that. In the end he did win because of that. However until he stood up to cowell (and it wasnt early on, it was in the last stages before being whittled down to 10) he wasn't even on anybodys radar. The judges themselves almost turfed him out, if i remember they couldnt even remember who he was.All im saying is if in that moment he hadnt said those things, he wouldnt have even been in the final 10, rightly or wrongly.
Congrat only 2nd post in the thread and that old chestnut the mythical Scottish vote theory rears its head again.
If the theory is correct explain why its only worked in these 2 cases and did not work in more than 2 others.
If your theory is correct then every year a Scot entered they would win - in fact the McDonald brothers should have beaten Leona based on your theory.
My theory is correct.
Obviously it does not work every time. Nikitta was Scottish, but it didn't work then. The Mc Bros didn't win, but did far better in the competition than they should have done.
Obviously as a Leon fan you prefer to think he won because he was the best, but it patently is not true.
Leon won not because he was the best (Rhydian was) but because more people voted for him. And those people were north of the border.
None of these shows have ever been anything else but a popularity contest.
One person's take on the best vocalist will be different to anothers. One person's take on likeability will be different to anothers.
The best vocalist for me in Leona's year was Robert for example. Not many agree with me probably, but I liked his voice and tone much more than I did Leona's.
Leon will always be a better singer for me than Rhydian because I prefer his tone too - I like listening to his voice, I don't like listening to Rhydians. Can the Rhyd sing? Of course! Is he a decent likeable fellow? Absolutely - I wish him every success he can find, I just wouldn't choose to listen to him sing.
Most acts who get to the finals of XF can sing as well as most people making careers out of pop music. The reason some go on to be successful and some don't isn't about vocal quality, it's more to do with them finding great original material, being marketed in the right way, generating the right publicity and so on. The world is full of people who can sing, but not all of them will be major sellers if they release an album.
Great post here it sums up exactly what I wanted to say.
Its not always about techniqual proficiency.
Obviously it does not work every time. Nikitta was Scottish, but it didn't work then. The Mc Bros didn't win, but did far better in the competition than they should have done.
Obviously as a Leon fan you prefer to think he won because he was the best, but it patently is not true.
Leon won not because he was the best (Rhydian was) but because more people voted for him. And those people were north of the border.
Nope. You cannot win the XF without England. The very fact that when there were 3 Scottish acts in XF 3 and not one reached the final should tell you that.
You cannot say 'patently' not true. If that were the case, even on DS, Leon's AT would be solely occupied by Scots and that is 'patently' not the case.
Obviously it does not work every time. Nikitta was Scottish, but it didn't work then. The Mc Bros didn't win, but did far better in the competition than they should have done.
Obviously as a Leon fan you prefer to think he won because he was the best, but it patently is not true.
Leon won not because he was the best (Rhydian was) but because more people voted for him. And those people were north of the border.
Well I live about as far south as you can get and still be in the UK so explain my vote then was it just some weird anomaly? Also am not a Scot living in England I come from as far away from Scotland as you can get.
Rhydian may have been more techniqually proficient than Leon but if you don't like the sound of someone's voice or the stuff they sing it is irrelevant how proficient they are.
Well apparently neither does having "everything" because hes hardly had huge record sales has he. I know he had that op operation etc but the public have hardly gone out in their droves to buy his songs have they?
In Leona's case Vocal talent does equal record sales. When she was on the show I remember quite a few saying they she didnt have the x-factor or personality to win and sell records. They were wrong. Celine Dion has definately not sold records for anything other than vocal ability. She is hardly very good looking is she?
Same goes for a few others such as Alison Moyet etc.
I know what you are saying, and for boybands and other such acts it is all about looks, but I think to be truly successful and stay around for a while you have to have some degree of talent.
I'm personally not a fan but I do think he has 'it'. As for Leona, its debatable. Some say it is a lack of personality, others say she is shy and doesn't realise how good she is which is an endearing quality. Of course vocal talent does come into play, but its not based on vocal talent alone. A lot goes into whether you like someone or not. I mean singers come out every year that are great vocally, but thats it. No connection, nothing. So they flop.
Congrat only 2nd post in the thread and that old chestnut the mythical Scottish vote theory rears its head again.
If the theory is correct explain why its only worked in these 2 cases and did not work in more than 2 others.
If your theory is correct then every year a Scot entered they would win - in fact the McDonald brothers should have beaten Leona based on your theory.
Yes, that always makes me laugh as well.
In answer to the OP, I believe Will Young won his year because he was the best vocally.
Exactly the American public care about the best. We care about who we fancy or like or who is the underdog. Hence why America has that winning attitude and we most of the time fail, when up against them.
Taylor Hicks was far from the best. It is still the biggest shock eviction in 'reality singing contest' history that Chris Daughtry was voted out in 4th place.
Also, Melinda Doolitle was easily the best vocalist in her year and she didn't even make the final.
Comments
Well apparently neither does having "everything" because hes hardly had huge record sales has he. I know he had that op operation etc but the public have hardly gone out in their droves to buy his songs have they?
In Leona's case Vocal talent does equal record sales. When she was on the show I remember quite a few saying they she didnt have the x-factor or personality to win and sell records. They were wrong. Celine Dion has definately not sold records for anything other than vocal ability. She is hardly very good looking is she?
Same goes for a few others such as Alison Moyet etc.
I know what you are saying, and for boybands and other such acts it is all about looks, but I think to be truly successful and stay around for a while you have to have some degree of talent.
One person's take on the best vocalist will be different to anothers. One person's take on likeability will be different to anothers.
The best vocalist for me in Leona's year was Robert for example. Not many agree with me probably, but I liked his voice and tone much more than I did Leona's.
Leon will always be a better singer for me than Rhydian because I prefer his tone too - I like listening to his voice, I don't like listening to Rhydians. Can the Rhyd sing? Of course! Is he a decent likeable fellow? Absolutely - I wish him every success he can find, I just wouldn't choose to listen to him sing.
Most acts who get to the finals of XF can sing as well as most people making careers out of pop music. The reason some go on to be successful and some don't isn't about vocal quality, it's more to do with them finding great original material, being marketed in the right way, generating the right publicity and so on. The world is full of people who can sing, but not all of them will be major sellers if they release an album.
Leon Jackson... unlike Eoghan I can see actually see why people of all ages would like Leon. He was cute, and really not in a bad way. Leon's the sort people flock to based on the "sweet young lad" persona he had throughout the competition. His vocals do nothing for me but when you put the whole package together, you can see how he'd appeal to some.
I actually think Shayne is a very good singer.
When you come off a show like this it's absolutely vital that your first album is impressive.
Shayne's first album was terrible, whoever picked the songs should be fired. His follow up wasn't any better.
Well I can think of one world wide success who proves your point wrong, Leona.
I dont know why people think Shayne Ward has failed, he's had very respectable sales.
His second album reached number 2 and sold 500K, which is hardly a failure.
I completely agree. It's one of the (relatively few!) things that I like best about America. When I'm over there, I feel I'm being judged for myself and what I do, not what I look like, what age I am, etc., as always seems to be the case in the UK.
Will did not win because he spoke back to Simon; he did that very early on in the live shows and Gareth remained favourite for many weeks after it.
Will won purely on the quality of his voice, which was FAR superior to Gareth's, who get as far as he did PURELY on looks and sob story.
I think Will's voice is still the best male vocal we've ever had on these shows actually.
I agree with everything in your post apart from the Archuleta Vs Cook part. Never understood why Cook won.. he sounds just like every other rock singer to me.
I agree, not only is his voice and style distinctive, but he has amazing control over it.
I think you are right about his voice ive never disputed that. In the end he did win because of that. However until he stood up to cowell (and it wasnt early on, it was in the last stages before being whittled down to 10) he wasn't even on anybodys radar. The judges themselves almost turfed him out, if i remember they couldnt even remember who he was.All im saying is if in that moment he hadnt said those things, he wouldnt have even been in the final 10, rightly or wrongly.
My theory is correct.
Obviously it does not work every time. Nikitta was Scottish, but it didn't work then. The Mc Bros didn't win, but did far better in the competition than they should have done.
Obviously as a Leon fan you prefer to think he won because he was the best, but it patently is not true.
Leon won not because he was the best (Rhydian was) but because more people voted for him. And those people were north of the border.
Great post here it sums up exactly what I wanted to say.
Its not always about techniqual proficiency.
Nope. You cannot win the XF without England. The very fact that when there were 3 Scottish acts in XF 3 and not one reached the final should tell you that.
You cannot say 'patently' not true. If that were the case, even on DS, Leon's AT would be solely occupied by Scots and that is 'patently' not the case.
Well I live about as far south as you can get and still be in the UK so explain my vote then was it just some weird anomaly? Also am not a Scot living in England I come from as far away from Scotland as you can get.
Rhydian may have been more techniqually proficient than Leon but if you don't like the sound of someone's voice or the stuff they sing it is irrelevant how proficient they are.
I'm personally not a fan but I do think he has 'it'. As for Leona, its debatable. Some say it is a lack of personality, others say she is shy and doesn't realise how good she is which is an endearing quality. Of course vocal talent does come into play, but its not based on vocal talent alone. A lot goes into whether you like someone or not. I mean singers come out every year that are great vocally, but thats it. No connection, nothing. So they flop.
Yes, that always makes me laugh as well.
In answer to the OP, I believe Will Young won his year because he was the best vocally.
XFactor. Series 1.
Best singer and the winner. Steve Brookstein.
So much for 'he had it all'.
One of my favourite singers ever.Great live performer and his latest album is his best yet.
Leona Lewis
She's not really to my taste but she can sing.
Leon Jackson.
Gorgeous tone and perfect phrasing.Bags of potential.
Kelly Clarkson.
Not a fan as such but she's got a set of pipes.
Fantasia
Fab-u-lous.
Taylor Hicks was far from the best. It is still the biggest shock eviction in 'reality singing contest' history that Chris Daughtry was voted out in 4th place.
Also, Melinda Doolitle was easily the best vocalist in her year and she didn't even make the final.
They got it right this year though.