I don't think it is only romantic partnerships that require 'chemistry' and the absence can spoil it.
Elliot and Connie were a great partnership with great chemistry - absolutely no romance involved. Their 'chalk and cheese' dynamic would not have lasted nearly 6 years, and still be evident in her guest appearance in 2014 if the actors chemistry hadn't worked.
Same with Jonny and Mo. Not tomantic but crucial for the actors to have chemistry for them to be believable as people that had worked together and been best friends for years, prior to their first episode. The chemistry was there and it was instant - I remember a poster commenting after their first episode that he absolutely believed they had been each others right arms for years , knew each other inside out.
Digby, Dom and Zosia have great chemistry as a friendship group. Sacha and Jac have great chemistry as friends, not lovers.
Penny and Ollie had chemistry as believable siblings. Penny and Frieda as friends.
I could go on listing examples.
I think alot of that comes from the actors and there own relationships. Trio best of friends, Jac and Sacha are very close. Eddi and Luc ended up married. And whatever the dynamics between the others. It doesn't come from the writing, where as in a lot of shows it does. Holby has better actors and directors than it does writing. Jac and Joseph had amazing chemistry and we know that came a lot from the actors work on it. I presume same with Ollie and Zosia - as in they work hard to have the chemistry on screen. I don't think any of it is there on the page for them to be honest.
Whilst we're talking about issues with Adele, I would say that I don't think the actress plays her very well. I can say it's nothing to do with race (I can list several black actors who I really do like) and I realise it's not Petra Letang's fault that Adele is written like that, I just don't think she does the character any favours. She delivers the lines in a very flat, dull way which doesn't engage me. I've never seen her bring any sort of emotion to the role. That does make me like Adele even less, I have to say, though I wouldn't like her anyway with the way she's written.
Whilst we're talking about issues with Adele, I would say that I don't think the actress plays her very well. I can say it's nothing to do with race (I can list several black actors who I really do like) and I realise it's not Petra Letang's fault that Adele is written like that, I just don't think she does the character any favours. She delivers the lines in a very flat, dull way which doesn't engage me. I've never seen her bring any sort of emotion to the role. That does make me like Adele even less, I have to say, though I wouldn't like her anyway with the way she's written.
But, even with badly written lines and a badly drawn character, surely any reasonable actress could, and should, "deliver" the lines rather than ,basically,just "speak them out loud".
I think alot of that comes from the actors and there own relationships. Trio best of friends, Jac and Sacha are very close. Eddi and Luc ended up married. And whatever the dynamics between the others. It doesn't come from the writing, where as in a lot of shows it does. Holby has better actors and directors than it does writing. Jac and Joseph had amazing chemistry and we know that came a lot from the actors work on it. I presume same with Ollie and Zosia - as in they work hard to have the chemistry on screen. I don't think any of it is there on the page for them to be honest.
I think that can go both ways. It possibly is true with the portrayal of friendships on screen that it helps a lot if the actors get on. Also, with some of these romantic pairings which don't get written for, for months (or longer) after the initial relationship but are kept 'alive' with looks which come from the actors, obviously a lot of that is going to come from the actors being invested in that screen relationship and wanting it to be revisited in the future, as was the case with Luke Roberts and Rosie Marcel as you mentioned. If they didn't enjoy working with each other, get on in real life, they'd probably be keener for it to be forgotten about and move on to the next on screen romance with a new actor.
However, sometimes a romantic relationship off screen can kill the chemistry onscreen. Look at Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in "Eyes Wide Shut" (though if you believe the rumours about him, maybe not the best example!). Equally, some famous, popular screen lovers renowned for their chemisty absolutely despised each other in real life. Dieter Brummer and Melissa George who played Shane and Angel Parrish in Home and Away would be a Soap example, though I'm sure I could think of more.
But, even with badly written lines and a badly drawn character, surely any reasonable actress could, and should, "deliver" the lines rather than ,basically,just "speak them out loud".
Exactly.
A lot of the best actors actually 'play against the lines' meaning they imbue them with extra emotion, sometimes even seeming to twist the intent of the writing. I honestly believe Rosie Marcel often does that. Jac's lines in the hands of a less capable actress would have completely consigned her in the role of 2 dimensional panto villain and she probably wouldn't have survived longer than about 18 months - probably about to the Lord Byrne storyline.
That said, I do think Petra has a mountain to climb to get over some of the things Adele is written to do like go through Relatives handbags and teaching Elliot how to pitch plus getting a legal document protecting his intellectual copyright drawn up (and persuading the CEO to sign despite the financial implications that would have for the Trust's Research investment) withing about 5 minutes! I doubt anybody could get me to like or believe in her with stuff like that.
A lot of the best actors actually 'play against the lines' meaning they imbue them with extra emotion, sometimes even seeming to twist the intent of the writing. I honestly believe Rosie Marcel often does that. Jac's lines in the hands of a less capable actress would have completely consigned her in the role of 2 dimensional panto villain and she probably wouldn't have survived longer than about 18 months - probably about to the Lord Byrne storyline.
That said, I do think Petra has a mountain to climb to get over some of the things Adele is written to do like go through Relatives handbags and teaching Elliot how to pitch plus getting a legal document protecting his intellectual copyright drawn up (and persuading the CEO to sign despite the financial implications that would have for the Trust's Research investment) withing about 5 minutes! I doubt anybody could get me to like or believe in her with stuff like that.
I think Lauren Drummond is another one who really added most of the characterisation herself, at least to begin with. In the early episodes, she seemed to be naive and a bit silly, but Lauren brought something really passionate and earnest to the character, and it looked to the viewers like there was more to her. The writers (credit to them, they did well there) seized upon that and quickly started to show Chantelle's more insightful side. I wonder if there was any of that with Camilla Arfwedson as well (Zosia's character is incredibly different now to how she was at the start, even if you take into account the fact that the character is now getting treatment) but in her case I think her long-term storyline may have been planned out more from the start.
Petra does have a mountain to climb, I agree, and as you say I wouldn't like the character even if someone better was playing her. But I might dislike her slightly less than I do now if there was more emotion to it. She seems quite wooden and learned-by-heart, I think.
However, sometimes a romantic relationship off screen can kill the chemistry onscreen. Look at Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in "Eyes Wide Shut" (though if you believe the rumours about him, maybe not the best example!). Equally, some famous, popular screen lovers renowned for their chemisty absolutely despised each other in real life. Dieter Brummer and Melissa George who played Shane and Angel Parrish in Home and Away would be a Soap example, though I'm sure I could think of more.
I think that that is all a bit of a myth to be honest. They are in effect just working together. It is only really going to work if you get on and have a dynamic. As far as I know no one on Holbynever went out with each other anyway...or at least with another actor. Joseph Millson and Sarah Jane Potts got together after they left. We like to have myths about chemistry but in reality...if you like your co worker, you have a dynamic...itmprobs must works. That Shane and Angel thing was way over blown. I read an interview where she said it was just when they met. They got along well for most of their time.
But, even with badly written lines and a badly drawn character, surely any reasonable actress could, and should, "deliver" the lines rather than ,basically,just "speak them out loud".
It is their job to 'act' but not their job to turn drivel into gold.
But its the distinction between bad, good and brilliant actors , those who van turn drivel into gold.It can be seen in all Drama progs especially soaps.
But its the distinction between bad, good and brilliant actors , those who van turn drivel into gold.It can be seen in all Drama progs especially soaps.
NH not really. The writing is still rubbish; the acting is just better compared to others. They don't over come the writing just make it seem like it is better. Just like writing can make a mediocre actor seem better than. They are. The writing on Holby isn't helping them though.
I think Lauren Drummond is another one who really added most of the characterisation herself, at least to begin with. In the early episodes, she seemed to be naive and a bit silly, but Lauren brought something really passionate and earnest to the character, and it looked to the viewers like there was more to her. The writers (credit to them, they did well there) seized upon that and quickly started to show Chantelle's more insightful side. I wonder if there was any of that with Camilla Arfwedson as well (Zosia's character is incredibly different now to how she was at the start, even if you take into account the fact that the character is now getting treatment) but in her case I think her long-term storyline may have been planned out more from the start.
Petra does have a mountain to climb, I agree, and as you say I wouldn't like the character even if someone better was playing her. But I might dislike her slightly less than I do now if there was more emotion to it. She seems quite wooden and learned-by-heart, I think.
I really wish that Chantelle would come back. She was great.
I really wish that Chantelle would come back. She was great.
Who knows, maybe she will one day... Hanssen did!
Although I'd love for Malick to come back as well if Chantelle did, her friendship with him was one of my favourite things about the character. It's like, I much prefer Oliver when he's with Jac.
I am not convinced that Morven and Arthur are a good match. I was sorry they split him and Maria up, they worked well. Morven is so driven she's almost scary.
I don't like the posh guy that asked for Dom's number last week, either - I hope he doesn't fall for him!! Lee was gorgeous - such a pity he turned out to be a bad 'un.
I am not convinced that Morven and Arthur are a good match. I was sorry they split him and Maria up, they worked well. Morven is so driven she's almost scary.
I don't like the posh guy that asked for Dom's number last week, either - I hope he doesn't fall for him!! Lee was gorgeous - such a pity he turned out to be a bad 'un.
Really what you want is for Dom and Digby to be together?
I really could not work out what we were meant to think about Guy after that episode. Maybe that was the point!
Nowhere near as good as last week's episode. It seems to be one week on, one week off at the moment.
I really could not work out what we were meant to think about Guy after that episode. Maybe that was the point!
Nowhere near as good as last week's episode. It seems to be one week on, one week off at the moment.
I liked it. Thought it did a good job with Guy. Morven and Digby were light relief but still don't buy them.
OMG will Adele just STFU - why do people even listen to her?
Yes, an absolute crystallization of her being willing to disregard rules because she doesn't understand why they exist in the first place.
Difference being that usually the other characters (and by default the writers) effectively condone her position, and rule bending by have her be proved 'right' and the Patient survive, Doctor get funding, wrongly accused cleared so her actions appear justified.
No, I'm not sure what we are meant to think about guy after that but do believe that was the point. He is not all good or all bad, he is a man of contradictions who doesn't know himself what he wants to be, let alone if he can achieve it.
I liked it. Thought it did a good job with Guy. Morven and Digby were light relief but still don't buy them.
I don't buy it either. They've been flirting for a few weeks and suddenly it has turned into this epic love story? The writers seem to be moving too fast with this storyline.
Possible adoption storyline coming up for Essie and Sacha?
I dunno. A character study of Guy is a potentially risky prospect and the "revelation" that he's a sociopath is a bit "Well, duh." I can't tell if he's still meant to be the resident villain or if this storyline's actually going to have an ending... Spent most of it trying to work out if the documentary maker was that girl in The Biz back in the dark ages. Ah, good old 20th century sound effects: Fast forward a memory card and you hear tape screeching.
I imagine we were supposed to think Essie did the right thing at the end there, but, as surprising as it might be, I found myself agreeing with Adele here. She's denied a woman life saving surgery mainly because of her own issues and given that the evidence was reasonably circumstantial I'd have been in favour of pressing ahead and pleading ignorance if the truth came out.
I quite like Arthur and Morven, despite some leaps of characterisation. I take it we're meant to assume Serena was already aware of the relationship when she was telling Arthur she wants to shoot all the couples? Because if not she's gone from annoying to psychopath. And the gags about Arthur's "Josephine" fixation were actually quite funny, along with his answers to Serena's semi-rhetorical questions ("You know what I hate most about this hospital?"/"Human Resources?").
I dunno. A character study of Guy is a potentially risky prospect and the "revelation" that he's a sociopath is a bit "Well, duh." I can't tell if he's still meant to be the resident villain or if this storyline's actually going to have an ending... Spent most of it trying to work out if the documentary maker was that girl in The Biz back in the dark ages. Ah, good old 20th century sound effects: Fast forward a memory card and you hear tape screeching.
I quite like Arthur and Morven, despite some leaps of characterisation. I take it we're meant to assume Serena was already aware of the relationship when she was telling Arthur she wants to shoot all the couples? Because if not she's gone from annoying to psychopath. And the gags about Arthur's "Josephine" fixation were actually quite funny, along with his answers to Serena's semi-rhetorical questions ("You know what I hate most about this hospital?"/"Human Resources?").
I don't think it showed him as a psycho...actually I think they made him out to be complex.
She was so winding Digby up. They all know. Dom had told them and probably about Zosia and Ollie too...which was there gag about her having to email them about stop shagging in the cupboard (which they obviously weren't).
I really like the Zosia and Ollie pairing, they work incredibly well together and nothing is ever told it is just shown.
I dunno. A character study of Guy is a potentially risky prospect and the "revelation" that he's a sociopath is a bit "Well, duh." I can't tell if he's still meant to be the resident villain or if this storyline's actually going to have an ending... Spent most of it trying to work out if the documentary maker was that girl in The Biz back in the dark ages. Ah, good old 20th century sound effects: Fast forward a memory card and you hear tape screeching.
I imagine we were supposed to think Essie did the right thing at the end there, but, as surprising as it might be, I found myself agreeing with Adele here. She's denied a woman life saving surgery mainly because of her own issues and given that the evidence was reasonably circumstantial I'd have been in favour of pressing ahead and pleading ignorance if the truth came out.
I quite like Arthur and Morven, despite some leaps of characterisation. I take it we're meant to assume Serena was already aware of the relationship when she was telling Arthur she wants to shoot all the couples? Because if not she's gone from annoying to psychopath. And the gags about Arthur's "Josephine" fixation were actually quite funny, along with his answers to Serena's semi-rhetorical questions ("You know what I hate most about this hospital?"/"Human Resources?").
I like Morven and Digby too- he is much better suited to Digby than Marie was at any rate, I don't feel it is a leap in characterisation though as it was clear some time ago it was working towards it ( in the same way Ollie and Zosia had been, but less obviously). Digby said last week he had always been worried as he knew she was cleverer than him and it scared him. It is really just that he had come to terms with it. Personally, I think they are just as clever as each other. They both have the same sort of interests and insights ( Napoleon etc).
Felt sorry for the coffee shop lady in the end, although I can see what Guy was doing, he didn't need to out it like that.
I liked it. Thought it did a good job with Guy. Morven and Digby were light relief but still don't buy them.
I don't either I'm afraid. Maybe because I don't really have a handle on Morven yet, even though i know she has been there for months.
I mean i know she doesn't irritate me (like many if not most of the characters over the past year or so), she seems nice and competent but i don't actually find her particularly interesting and haven't seen any real build up to her and Digby's romantic relationship re looks, talks with other characters (or that old standby, Patients) and for them to be declaring their love?
Zosia and Oliver I can believe because they did spend so much screen time on the 'angst' in the Spring/early Summer. Likewise Cara and Raf if they go down that route as he was so involved with her storyline involving her Husband. But not Morven and Digby, even though i think they were quite cute today.
I don't either I'm afraid. Maybe because I don't really have a handle on Morven yet, even though i know she has been there for months.
I mean i know she doesn't irritate me (like many if not most of the characters over the past year or so), she seems nice and competent but i don't actually find her particularly interesting and haven't seen any real build up to her and Digby's romantic relationship re looks, talks with other characters (or that old standby, Patients) and for them to be declaring their love?
Zosia and Oliver I can believe because they did spend so much screen time on the 'angst' in the Spring/early Summer. Likewise Cara and Raf if they go down that route as he was so involved with her storyline involving her Husband. But not Morven and Digby, even though i think they were quite cute today.
Yes, I also feel the same re Digby and Morven. I do like them both as individuals, but I am just not buying them as a couple. There has been no build up at all. I could just about buy them becoming friends after their awkward start, but not as a romantic love story.
It's a shame they can't strike some sort of happy medium with this. I love Ollie and Zosia as a pairing, but I do think the build up was stretched out a tad too long, yet with Digby and Morven there seems to have been no build up at all! I really thought that Cara and Raf would be the next couple in line after Ollie and Zosia.
I really don't think that Essie will be able to get pregnant. I suspected that was where they were going with that when such a big issue was made of them trying. I really have a feeling that both Zosia and Mo will become pregnant around the same time. Or at the very least one of them will. Looking at the timings I think that we could have a Christmas baby or two arriving next year for the Christmas special!
Isn't it convenient how many people with undiagnosed heart problems that need operating on today collapse either on the correct ward or in front of the correct doctors.
Comments
I think alot of that comes from the actors and there own relationships. Trio best of friends, Jac and Sacha are very close. Eddi and Luc ended up married. And whatever the dynamics between the others. It doesn't come from the writing, where as in a lot of shows it does. Holby has better actors and directors than it does writing. Jac and Joseph had amazing chemistry and we know that came a lot from the actors work on it. I presume same with Ollie and Zosia - as in they work hard to have the chemistry on screen. I don't think any of it is there on the page for them to be honest.
But, even with badly written lines and a badly drawn character, surely any reasonable actress could, and should, "deliver" the lines rather than ,basically,just "speak them out loud".
I think that can go both ways. It possibly is true with the portrayal of friendships on screen that it helps a lot if the actors get on. Also, with some of these romantic pairings which don't get written for, for months (or longer) after the initial relationship but are kept 'alive' with looks which come from the actors, obviously a lot of that is going to come from the actors being invested in that screen relationship and wanting it to be revisited in the future, as was the case with Luke Roberts and Rosie Marcel as you mentioned. If they didn't enjoy working with each other, get on in real life, they'd probably be keener for it to be forgotten about and move on to the next on screen romance with a new actor.
However, sometimes a romantic relationship off screen can kill the chemistry onscreen. Look at Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in "Eyes Wide Shut" (though if you believe the rumours about him, maybe not the best example!). Equally, some famous, popular screen lovers renowned for their chemisty absolutely despised each other in real life. Dieter Brummer and Melissa George who played Shane and Angel Parrish in Home and Away would be a Soap example, though I'm sure I could think of more.
Exactly.
A lot of the best actors actually 'play against the lines' meaning they imbue them with extra emotion, sometimes even seeming to twist the intent of the writing. I honestly believe Rosie Marcel often does that. Jac's lines in the hands of a less capable actress would have completely consigned her in the role of 2 dimensional panto villain and she probably wouldn't have survived longer than about 18 months - probably about to the Lord Byrne storyline.
That said, I do think Petra has a mountain to climb to get over some of the things Adele is written to do like go through Relatives handbags and teaching Elliot how to pitch plus getting a legal document protecting his intellectual copyright drawn up (and persuading the CEO to sign despite the financial implications that would have for the Trust's Research investment) withing about 5 minutes! I doubt anybody could get me to like or believe in her with stuff like that.
I think Lauren Drummond is another one who really added most of the characterisation herself, at least to begin with. In the early episodes, she seemed to be naive and a bit silly, but Lauren brought something really passionate and earnest to the character, and it looked to the viewers like there was more to her. The writers (credit to them, they did well there) seized upon that and quickly started to show Chantelle's more insightful side. I wonder if there was any of that with Camilla Arfwedson as well (Zosia's character is incredibly different now to how she was at the start, even if you take into account the fact that the character is now getting treatment) but in her case I think her long-term storyline may have been planned out more from the start.
Petra does have a mountain to climb, I agree, and as you say I wouldn't like the character even if someone better was playing her. But I might dislike her slightly less than I do now if there was more emotion to it. She seems quite wooden and learned-by-heart, I think.
I think that that is all a bit of a myth to be honest. They are in effect just working together. It is only really going to work if you get on and have a dynamic. As far as I know no one on Holbynever went out with each other anyway...or at least with another actor. Joseph Millson and Sarah Jane Potts got together after they left. We like to have myths about chemistry but in reality...if you like your co worker, you have a dynamic...itmprobs must works. That Shane and Angel thing was way over blown. I read an interview where she said it was just when they met. They got along well for most of their time.
It is their job to 'act' but not their job to turn drivel into gold.
NH not really. The writing is still rubbish; the acting is just better compared to others. They don't over come the writing just make it seem like it is better. Just like writing can make a mediocre actor seem better than. They are. The writing on Holby isn't helping them though.
Who knows, maybe she will one day... Hanssen did!
Although I'd love for Malick to come back as well if Chantelle did, her friendship with him was one of my favourite things about the character. It's like, I much prefer Oliver when he's with Jac.
I don't like the posh guy that asked for Dom's number last week, either - I hope he doesn't fall for him!! Lee was gorgeous - such a pity he turned out to be a bad 'un.
Really what you want is for Dom and Digby to be together?
Nowhere near as good as last week's episode. It seems to be one week on, one week off at the moment.
I liked it. Thought it did a good job with Guy. Morven and Digby were light relief but still don't buy them.
Yes, an absolute crystallization of her being willing to disregard rules because she doesn't understand why they exist in the first place.
Difference being that usually the other characters (and by default the writers) effectively condone her position, and rule bending by have her be proved 'right' and the Patient survive, Doctor get funding, wrongly accused cleared so her actions appear justified.
No, I'm not sure what we are meant to think about guy after that but do believe that was the point. He is not all good or all bad, he is a man of contradictions who doesn't know himself what he wants to be, let alone if he can achieve it.
I don't buy it either. They've been flirting for a few weeks and suddenly it has turned into this epic love story? The writers seem to be moving too fast with this storyline.
Possible adoption storyline coming up for Essie and Sacha?
I imagine we were supposed to think Essie did the right thing at the end there, but, as surprising as it might be, I found myself agreeing with Adele here. She's denied a woman life saving surgery mainly because of her own issues and given that the evidence was reasonably circumstantial I'd have been in favour of pressing ahead and pleading ignorance if the truth came out.
I quite like Arthur and Morven, despite some leaps of characterisation. I take it we're meant to assume Serena was already aware of the relationship when she was telling Arthur she wants to shoot all the couples? Because if not she's gone from annoying to psychopath. And the gags about Arthur's "Josephine" fixation were actually quite funny, along with his answers to Serena's semi-rhetorical questions ("You know what I hate most about this hospital?"/"Human Resources?").
I don't think it showed him as a psycho...actually I think they made him out to be complex.
She was so winding Digby up. They all know. Dom had told them and probably about Zosia and Ollie too...which was there gag about her having to email them about stop shagging in the cupboard (which they obviously weren't).
I really like the Zosia and Ollie pairing, they work incredibly well together and nothing is ever told it is just shown.
I think so still going to be Zosia as the one who is going to get pregnant.
I like Morven and Digby too- he is much better suited to Digby than Marie was at any rate, I don't feel it is a leap in characterisation though as it was clear some time ago it was working towards it ( in the same way Ollie and Zosia had been, but less obviously). Digby said last week he had always been worried as he knew she was cleverer than him and it scared him. It is really just that he had come to terms with it. Personally, I think they are just as clever as each other. They both have the same sort of interests and insights ( Napoleon etc).
Felt sorry for the coffee shop lady in the end, although I can see what Guy was doing, he didn't need to out it like that.
I don't either I'm afraid. Maybe because I don't really have a handle on Morven yet, even though i know she has been there for months.
I mean i know she doesn't irritate me (like many if not most of the characters over the past year or so), she seems nice and competent but i don't actually find her particularly interesting and haven't seen any real build up to her and Digby's romantic relationship re looks, talks with other characters (or that old standby, Patients) and for them to be declaring their love?
Zosia and Oliver I can believe because they did spend so much screen time on the 'angst' in the Spring/early Summer. Likewise Cara and Raf if they go down that route as he was so involved with her storyline involving her Husband. But not Morven and Digby, even though i think they were quite cute today.
Yes, I also feel the same re Digby and Morven. I do like them both as individuals, but I am just not buying them as a couple. There has been no build up at all. I could just about buy them becoming friends after their awkward start, but not as a romantic love story.
It's a shame they can't strike some sort of happy medium with this. I love Ollie and Zosia as a pairing, but I do think the build up was stretched out a tad too long, yet with Digby and Morven there seems to have been no build up at all! I really thought that Cara and Raf would be the next couple in line after Ollie and Zosia.
I really don't think that Essie will be able to get pregnant. I suspected that was where they were going with that when such a big issue was made of them trying. I really have a feeling that both Zosia and Mo will become pregnant around the same time. Or at the very least one of them will. Looking at the timings I think that we could have a Christmas baby or two arriving next year for the Christmas special!
He does want it all again though