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Is London 'the UK's 5th country'?
cultureman
Posts: 11,701 Forum Member
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Following on from Farage's recent allegorical train journey from Charing Cross to Kent, where he claimed he didn't hear English spoken until he passed ?some station or other?; I heard someone assert on the radio that London was, because of its distinctive socio-cultural-economic profile, practically speaking a de-facto separate country within the British Isles; alongside England, Wales etc.
How much credence do you give to this observation? And if so is that a good or bad thing?
Is the relationship of London to the UK similar to say that of the Hong Kong of decades past to Mainland China? [This comparison being analogous rather than exact.]
How much credence do you give to this observation? And if so is that a good or bad thing?
Is the relationship of London to the UK similar to say that of the Hong Kong of decades past to Mainland China? [This comparison being analogous rather than exact.]
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I wonder why there were a load of people not speaking English?
I wonder if he means "didn't hear English being spoken" or simply "didn't hear a British accent"?
When I was commuting to / from London to Kent most people would either be reading their papers, listening to music or just standing quietly. Perhaps he didn't hear English spoken because people were simply too busy doing other things.
Chances are he may have heard families of holiday makers heading back to where they were staying.
Well whilst tourism flows might conceivably - if not totally plausibly - explain why there were foreign tongues in addition to English ones, it doesn't really explain their existence to the exclusion of British ones. Which is what Farage was pretty much asserting.
If they're going on to mainland Europe they'd more than likely use the Eurostar and the tunnel, not a ferry from the port of Dover.
As I said above ...
I also subsequently found article and read that my namesake meant during the rush hour.
Utter nonsense.
That aside London economically and politically does seem to me to becoming or even become quite separate from the rest of England. You only have to watch the very London centric news to see how little the rest of the country matters now - flooding in Somerset took nearly a month to filter through to the news but when the Thames spilt over its banks it was instant headlines.
Looking at the National rail site there are 3 direct and 5 indirect services that run from London Charing Cross to Dover between 16:00 and 18:00 in the evenings.
As well as St Pancras, you can also catch the Eurostar from Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International stations.
There are 5 direct and 5 indirect services between London Charing Cross and Ashford International between 16:00 and 18:00 in the evenings.
But yes, I was coming in to say that I think London is the UK's first country - nothing to do with immigration or nationality, just how it gets all the media coverage, investment, jobs, etc.
No it's not. To anyone who experiences London through their senses rather than through an ideological prism that precludes certain conclusions, contemporary London is clearly multicultural rather than identifiably British-English. The question is to what extent and in what ways that is a good or bad thing?
The progressive left or centre simply makes itself look absurdist and utterly marginal to any kind of mainstream debate by engaging in this kind of denial.
I'm aware of that so what are you trying to say, there's no evening Eurostar service so they catch a ferry?
It doesn't necessarily mean that they've all moved over here and "taken over" parts of the country, as Mr Farage seems to be trying to imply.
Really - do your research!
He was commenting on the London stops - until he got to Bromley |(where London ends and Kent begins) no one spoke English.
Or did I miss the airport and ferry ports in New Cross and Hither Green?
And as a Londoner I can confirm this is very much the case. I hardly here English spoken in my area of east London now by people walking along the street. As the OP indicates - is London arguably a separate country to all intents and purposes.
Ok but at this time of the year I doubt there would be many using the ferry as foot passengers, (which they would be if they made their own way to the port), most would be in coach parties etc and so not use the train, but even if they were they wouldn't travel at times when rail tickets are most expensive.
Btw I don't think that Farage implied anything, he's pretty much up front and vocal.
Alternatively ...
that's even more multicultural.
you struggle to understand brummies even when they're talking English.
JOKE!
The flooding didn't really affect London, so the news about flooding was not London-centric. There's over 130 miles of river before the Thames reaches London.
It strikes me as becoming a place where people with lots of money wade through the detritus in order to enjoy what was created in large part by the past.
I don't think the attraction will last long term, eventually the infrastructure will fail. Unless there is a revival of the attitude that made London so great in the first place.
Can't see that happening, not a great deal of civic pride around.
If something unique is created by the people, why is it taken as believable that removing those people will have no effect?
More like 1st or 2nd of you go on the level of wealth.
Here is a statistic to ponder on. I can't remember where I read or heard it, but it was a reputable source - i.e. not the Daily Mail/Express/Sun etc.
The value of all the property in the London borough of Kensington & Chelsea is more than the value of ALL the property in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined.
Now I know that London has poverty as bad or worse as you will find in any scummy housing estate in any other part of the country, but overall the economy of London is powering ahead of the rest of the UK.
That is a good thing for London, but is not necessarily good for the rest of the country as London sucks in all the talent/brains/investment etc.
There is what looks like a very interesting two part TV programme on this very subject presented by Evan Davis tomorrow night. Set your PVR's !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2014/09/mind-the-gap-london-vs-the-rest.html