Ridiculous idea the standing start after a safety car.
The drivers have earned their positions and if they had any sort of decent gap are already suffering by the field being pulled back together.
But hey, let's really put these earned positions in jeopardy by having a standing restart.
Oh, what a coincidence, Team X Driver A was totally out of contention and his incident caused the safety car and now Team X Driver B has jumped into the lead on the restart, having looked absolutely unable to get ny during the race prior to the safety car.
But hey, it's all good fun, think how many more first corner crashes we might have again, it was getting a bit boring. Don't want anyone to get hurt, but the fans love these starts, overtakes and potential crashes, eh...
I didn't know about this but actually on the face of it it seems quite a sensible idea.. The SC controls the pace while cars get back into position and the standing start stops the lead car bunching up the pack (potentially) dangerously to give themselves an advantage when the SC goes in..
The SC was controlling the pace when Bianchi stuck it in the wall.
If there'd been a red flag instead, he wouldn't have been injured.
I'm not keen on that either but it shows that there's absolutely NO valid reason, at all, to let the cars drive around the track behind the SC and then stop the f**king race and restart it again.
Hell, the starts are already the most dangerous period of any race and now there'll be the possibility of having 2 or 3 re-starts in a race, possibly in poor weather conditions, with a bunch of drivers who might be desperate for a 2nd chance at doing well?
It's wilfully adding risk to the sport purely for the sake of spectacle.
I didn't know about this but actually on the face of it it seems quite a sensible idea.. The SC controls the pace while cars get back into position and the standing start stops the lead car bunching up the pack (potentially) dangerously to give themselves an advantage when the SC goes in..
And what by all history is more likely to cause an incident and be a point of danger, a standing start on the grid ( and the mess that can be ) or the current rolling start ( with all the incidents that that err hasn't caused )
Oh, what a coincidence, Team X Driver A was totally out of contention and his incident caused the safety car and now Team X Driver B has jumped into the lead on the restart, having looked absolutely unable to get ny during the race prior to the safety car.
Very good point.
Okay, incidents like the whole Alonso/Piquet Jr thing might be rare but, more realistically, all a driver has to do is park a sickly car somewhere unsafe and they can force a restart in the hope of assisting the team or disadvantaging an opponent.
There's a chance he may get the reserve driver slot for Williams, though. Hope so. F1 is in a big mess at the moment as far as drivers are concerned. Established drivers who have demonstrated their pace cannot keep seats ahead of rookies or drivers with large backing.
That said, was watching the mid-week report on Sky and there's apparently a battle royal going on in Mclaren over the second seat. Dennis wants Magnessen because of the potential sponsorship he can bring, Boullier wants Magnessen because he does not think Button is quick enough but the Mclaren board (presumably under pressure from Honda) want Button seriously considered given his vastly superior results this season and his experience. I'd say there a 50/50 chance that Button will be given one more season with Vandoorne being given the reserve driver role ahead of a full drive in 2016.
yeah don't like whats happening in F1 at teh moment. Whilst you need new blood, you also need familar faces and good drivers who don't crash into each other. Losing Button would be a major blow.
Maybe Jeam-Eric can run in the third car for Red Bull if its ever agreed and allowed!
Leave the rookies to the smaller teams (if they can stay afloat) and develop in a way Riccardo has. I mean he drove for that rubbish Spannish team who's name escapes me right now and look where he's got.
yeah don't like whats happening in F1 at teh moment. Whilst you need new blood, you also need familar faces and good drivers who don't crash into each other. Losing Button would be a major blow.
Maybe Jeam-Eric can run in the third car for Red Bull if its ever agreed and allowed!
Leave the rookies to the smaller teams (if they can stay afloat) and develop in a way Riccardo has. I mean he drove for that rubbish Spannish team who's name escapes me right now and look where he's got.
HRT. This is the issue with so few teams on the grid. There used to be room for the rookies coming through, the established 'journeyman' drivers and the top championship contenders. Now there's no room in the middle. If you don't prove yourself within the first couple of years you're out. Drivers like JB or Mark Webber (started with Minardi) would never have survived in the modern sport had they just been starting now. Someone like Jolyon Palmer will likely never get a chance despite having won GP2 because he doesn't have the required level of backing.
Sadly not looking forward to next season given the likelihood of a repeat of this season and most not expecting to be able to get on terms with Mercedes. The engine rule, fuel restrictions and hybrid stuff contributed to a snorefest, particularly towards the end and has destroyed the sport for me.
Sadly not looking forward to next season given the likelihood of a repeat of this season and most not expecting to be able to get on terms with Mercedes. The engine rule, fuel restrictions and hybrid stuff contributed to a snorefest, particularly towards the end and has destroyed the sport for me.
I agree
gonna be a Merc benefit im afraid, you dont make up 0.7s lap overnight with them not being able to fundementally change the engines
stick a merc in a RBR with Newey working full time and we might have a race
only hope is Honda have a magic engine package but from the 1st run not looking good
Sadly not looking forward to next season given the likelihood of a repeat of this season and most not expecting to be able to get on terms with Mercedes. The engine rule, fuel restrictions and hybrid stuff contributed to a snorefest, particularly towards the end and has destroyed the sport for me.
Dont give up hope yet. Big part of Mercs advantage over customer teams was packaging of the engine, expect Williams to better prepared next year and closer as a result.
Large portions of the engine can be upgraded, so Renault at least should be closer and its still a Newey chassis next year.
Sadly not looking forward to next season given the likelihood of a repeat of this season and most not expecting to be able to get on terms with Mercedes. The engine rule, fuel restrictions and hybrid stuff contributed to a snorefest, particularly towards the end and has destroyed the sport for me.
Why is it any different to the previous four years when RBR was the dominant team?
Considering the analysis on that site puts Senna and Prost below the likes of John Watson, Nico Rosberg and Heinz-Harald Frentzen in its all-time driver ranking, I'll quite happily disregard absolutely everything it says.
Goodness people have short memories. I could have sworn that 2 out of Vettel's titles went down to the last race with him coming from behind to take the title at least once. I also seem to remember 5 drivers being in contention for the majority of the season in 2012 and there being 7 winners in 7 races at the start. This season has been far from exceptional in it's one-sidedness and there has been plenty of good, close racing. I couldn't care less how 'contrived' it is with tyres, DRS etc...
Next season probably will be much the same, which is fine with me.
Sadly not looking forward to next season given the likelihood of a repeat of this season and most not expecting to be able to get on terms with Mercedes. The engine rule, fuel restrictions and hybrid stuff contributed to a snorefest, particularly towards the end and has destroyed the sport for me.
Gotta say, as a Hamilton fan, I thought there was plenty to hold my attention right until the end of the season.
If anything's "destroying the sport", it's not the technology but the inability for certain teams to develop suitably competitive cars.
Must say, I'm starting to get a bit sick of all the whining from Ferrari and RBR over the current technology in F1.
I'm sure we're all aware that if ferrari or RBR had built a monster car for this year they'd be insisting that nothing gets changed for next year.
Seems like they just want the opportunity to keep "rolling the dice" until a set of rules crops up which favours them, at which time I'm sure they'd then be happy.
F1 is what it is.
The engine rules are a smart idea because they are relevant to real-world motoring and the teams, and their fans, need to get their heads around that and hope that they can come up with something to challenge Merc' rather than bleating that they want a do-over until they get something that suits them.
Vettel really couldn't wait to get behind the wheel of a Ferrari and given the superiority of his 2012 Red Bull, may have some idea now of how far behind they are.
Gotta say, as a Hamilton fan, I thought there was plenty to hold my attention right until the end of the season.
If anything's "destroying the sport", it's not the technology but the inability for certain teams to develop suitably competitive cars.
Must say, I'm starting to get a bit sick of all the whining from Ferrari and RBR over the current technology in F1.
I'm sure we're all aware that if ferrari or RBR had built a monster car for this year they'd be insisting that nothing gets changed for next year.
Seems like they just want the opportunity to keep "rolling the dice" until a set of rules crops up which favours them, at which time I'm sure they'd then be happy.
F1 is what it is.
The engine rules are a smart idea because they are relevant to real-world motoring and the teams, and their fans, need to get their heads around that and hope that they can come up with something to challenge Merc' rather than bleating that they want a do-over until they get something that suits them.
F1 is what it is.
The engine rules are a smart idea because they are relevant to real-world motoring and the teams, and their fans, need to get their heads around that and hope that they can come up with something to challenge Merc' rather than bleating that they want a do-over until they get something that suits them.
Problem is they cant freely develop the engines like they can with the chassis. Always was going to be a problem, i expected this when the regs were announced.
Shouldve made it free for the first 2-3 years then reduce what could be changed. Other engine manufacturers would have copied Merc by now and be ready for 2015 much like how they do with aero.
Problem is they cant freely develop the engines like they can with the chassis. Always was going to be a problem, i expected this when the regs were announced.
Shouldve made it free for the first 2-3 years then reduce what could be changed. Other engine manufacturers would have copied Merc by now and be ready for 2015 much like how they do with aero.
All of which only goes to demonstrate how petulant the engine suppliers are being.
They were all aware that they were developing a power unit with a lifespan of 2 years and they all agreed to that in the hope that they'd be the one to build a crushingly good engine and then, when it turns out that the Merc' is far superior, the other teams start to bleat that the new engines are prohibitively expensive and yet, at the same time, they demand the right to spend even more money upgrading them.
I guess the idea of the restriction was to create a baseline for the amount of power available and give teams a limited ability to achieve that baseline without ending up leapfrogging each other which'd create even more expense.
They've got their 47 "tokens" (or whatever it is) so they've got plenty of room to tinker while, at the same time, helping ensure things don't evolve too quickly.
They've got their 47 "tokens" (or whatever it is) so they've got plenty of room to tinker while, at the same time, helping ensure things don't evolve too quickly.
So rather interestingly, is the latest bit of whinging from Ferrari and Renault via RBR; it's not the number of development tokens that is the issue, it's that they're just not quick enough to make the required changes.
So the rules should be scrapped because Ferrari and Renault are simply admitting that not only are they incompetent, but also crap when it comes to being productive?
So rather interestingly, is the latest bit of whinging from Ferrari and Renault via RBR; it's not the number of development tokens that is the issue, it's that they're just not quick enough to make the required changes.
So the rules should be scrapped because Ferrari and Renault are simply admitting that not only are they incompetent, but also crap when it comes to being productive?
Personally, I just think that's yet more bullshit.
What they're really pushing for is in-season development so they're claiming that they can't develop new engines during winter and want to be allowed to continue to develop into the new season.
All of which, in reality, means that they want a chance to see what Merc' comes up with next year so they can copy it.
Funny thing is, if in-season development was allowed and Merc' showed up in Melbourne with some funky new widget that gave them another 70bhp, you can bet your arse that Ferrari and Renault would manage to develop their own version of the same thing within a few weeks.
And what by all history is more likely to cause an incident and be a point of danger, a standing start on the grid ( and the mess that can be ) or the current rolling start ( with all the incidents that that err hasn't caused )
That's without getting back into fairness !
Just quoted this one rather than multi-quoting but all good replies that I hadn't really considered - however, i still maintain that just because there hasn't been any incidents with the current bunched up rolling start this doesn't mean there is a real potential for something nasty to happen..
Comments
The drivers have earned their positions and if they had any sort of decent gap are already suffering by the field being pulled back together.
But hey, let's really put these earned positions in jeopardy by having a standing restart.
Oh, what a coincidence, Team X Driver A was totally out of contention and his incident caused the safety car and now Team X Driver B has jumped into the lead on the restart, having looked absolutely unable to get ny during the race prior to the safety car.
But hey, it's all good fun, think how many more first corner crashes we might have again, it was getting a bit boring. Don't want anyone to get hurt, but the fans love these starts, overtakes and potential crashes, eh...
RI-DI-CUL-OUS !
The SC was controlling the pace when Bianchi stuck it in the wall.
If there'd been a red flag instead, he wouldn't have been injured.
I'm not keen on that either but it shows that there's absolutely NO valid reason, at all, to let the cars drive around the track behind the SC and then stop the f**king race and restart it again.
Hell, the starts are already the most dangerous period of any race and now there'll be the possibility of having 2 or 3 re-starts in a race, possibly in poor weather conditions, with a bunch of drivers who might be desperate for a 2nd chance at doing well?
It's wilfully adding risk to the sport purely for the sake of spectacle.
And what by all history is more likely to cause an incident and be a point of danger, a standing start on the grid ( and the mess that can be ) or the current rolling start ( with all the incidents that that err hasn't caused )
That's without getting back into fairness !
Very good point.
Okay, incidents like the whole Alonso/Piquet Jr thing might be rare but, more realistically, all a driver has to do is park a sickly car somewhere unsafe and they can force a restart in the hope of assisting the team or disadvantaging an opponent.
That said, was watching the mid-week report on Sky and there's apparently a battle royal going on in Mclaren over the second seat. Dennis wants Magnessen because of the potential sponsorship he can bring, Boullier wants Magnessen because he does not think Button is quick enough but the Mclaren board (presumably under pressure from Honda) want Button seriously considered given his vastly superior results this season and his experience. I'd say there a 50/50 chance that Button will be given one more season with Vandoorne being given the reserve driver role ahead of a full drive in 2016.
Maybe Jeam-Eric can run in the third car for Red Bull if its ever agreed and allowed!
Leave the rookies to the smaller teams (if they can stay afloat) and develop in a way Riccardo has. I mean he drove for that rubbish Spannish team who's name escapes me right now and look where he's got.
HRT. This is the issue with so few teams on the grid. There used to be room for the rookies coming through, the established 'journeyman' drivers and the top championship contenders. Now there's no room in the middle. If you don't prove yourself within the first couple of years you're out. Drivers like JB or Mark Webber (started with Minardi) would never have survived in the modern sport had they just been starting now. Someone like Jolyon Palmer will likely never get a chance despite having won GP2 because he doesn't have the required level of backing.
I agree
gonna be a Merc benefit im afraid, you dont make up 0.7s lap overnight with them not being able to fundementally change the engines
stick a merc in a RBR with Newey working full time and we might have a race
only hope is Honda have a magic engine package but from the 1st run not looking good
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/2014-model-based-driver-rankings/
Dont give up hope yet. Big part of Mercs advantage over customer teams was packaging of the engine, expect Williams to better prepared next year and closer as a result.
Large portions of the engine can be upgraded, so Renault at least should be closer and its still a Newey chassis next year.
Same has applied for years. Didn't Schumacher win some of his titles with several races in hand in the early 00s? We keep watching though.:)
Considering the analysis on that site puts Senna and Prost below the likes of John Watson, Nico Rosberg and Heinz-Harald Frentzen in its all-time driver ranking, I'll quite happily disregard absolutely everything it says.
Next season probably will be much the same, which is fine with me.
Gotta say, as a Hamilton fan, I thought there was plenty to hold my attention right until the end of the season.
If anything's "destroying the sport", it's not the technology but the inability for certain teams to develop suitably competitive cars.
Must say, I'm starting to get a bit sick of all the whining from Ferrari and RBR over the current technology in F1.
I'm sure we're all aware that if ferrari or RBR had built a monster car for this year they'd be insisting that nothing gets changed for next year.
Seems like they just want the opportunity to keep "rolling the dice" until a set of rules crops up which favours them, at which time I'm sure they'd then be happy.
F1 is what it is.
The engine rules are a smart idea because they are relevant to real-world motoring and the teams, and their fans, need to get their heads around that and hope that they can come up with something to challenge Merc' rather than bleating that they want a do-over until they get something that suits them.
Well said
Problem is they cant freely develop the engines like they can with the chassis. Always was going to be a problem, i expected this when the regs were announced.
Shouldve made it free for the first 2-3 years then reduce what could be changed. Other engine manufacturers would have copied Merc by now and be ready for 2015 much like how they do with aero.
All of which only goes to demonstrate how petulant the engine suppliers are being.
They were all aware that they were developing a power unit with a lifespan of 2 years and they all agreed to that in the hope that they'd be the one to build a crushingly good engine and then, when it turns out that the Merc' is far superior, the other teams start to bleat that the new engines are prohibitively expensive and yet, at the same time, they demand the right to spend even more money upgrading them.
I guess the idea of the restriction was to create a baseline for the amount of power available and give teams a limited ability to achieve that baseline without ending up leapfrogging each other which'd create even more expense.
They've got their 47 "tokens" (or whatever it is) so they've got plenty of room to tinker while, at the same time, helping ensure things don't evolve too quickly.
So rather interestingly, is the latest bit of whinging from Ferrari and Renault via RBR; it's not the number of development tokens that is the issue, it's that they're just not quick enough to make the required changes.
So the rules should be scrapped because Ferrari and Renault are simply admitting that not only are they incompetent, but also crap when it comes to being productive?
Personally, I just think that's yet more bullshit.
What they're really pushing for is in-season development so they're claiming that they can't develop new engines during winter and want to be allowed to continue to develop into the new season.
All of which, in reality, means that they want a chance to see what Merc' comes up with next year so they can copy it.
Funny thing is, if in-season development was allowed and Merc' showed up in Melbourne with some funky new widget that gave them another 70bhp, you can bet your arse that Ferrari and Renault would manage to develop their own version of the same thing within a few weeks.
Just quoted this one rather than multi-quoting but all good replies that I hadn't really considered - however, i still maintain that just because there hasn't been any incidents with the current bunched up rolling start this doesn't mean there is a real potential for something nasty to happen..