[Dub2]

Originally Posted by Electra

My god, you really don't like the British, do you?

Cram & Coughlan were both great athletes. There has never been any hint or suggestion that Cram was anything other than extremely talented & hard working.

Unlike say, for the sake of argument, Mary De Bruin.

I find myself offended at the suggestion that i don`t like the British, considering i was born in Manchester, and my father, and both grandfathers fought for Britain.

Are you really that sensitive?

No idea who Mary de Bruin is either, i`m presuming you are talking about the shamed Irish swimmer Michelle Smith?

[dao]

Well, whether it was Steve Cram or Foster one of them was strongly implying doping. I can't remember a commentator before being that blatant. One of the commentators kept going on about the doctors note and his "injury", to which the other replied "the controversy of that is small compared to the conversations that have been going on about this athlete." Hint hint. This went along with a barrage of comments about how bewildering his performance was, how his improvement has come out of nowhere, lines like "people won't know what to make of this" and so on. Hell he even told us that Seb Coe in the audience couldn't believe it either.

I'm guessing the Algerian must be have been a hot topic among the 1500m guys lately.

[Smudged]

You would think that Cram and Foster have a better understanding of the event and the competitors involved than most, so there must be some reason they were being so blatant about it. As I said, I don't think they should have made it so obvious. At the end of the day it's up to the testing to weed out the cheats.

[Jaccobabe]

So if Mo Farah had won with a bigger margin, would he also have been doped?

[dome]

Originally Posted by dao

Well, whether it was Steve Cram or Foster one of them was strongly implying doping. I can't remember a commentator before being that blatant. One of the commentators kept going on about the doctors note and his "injury", to which the other replied "the controversy of that is small compared to the conversations that have been going on about this athlete." Hint hint. This went along with a barrage of comments about how bewildering his performance was, how his improvement has come out of nowhere, lines like "people won't know what to make of this" and so on. Hell he even told us that Seb Coe in the audience couldn't believe it either.

I'm guessing the Algerian must be have been a hot topic among the 1500m guys lately.

It would appear so.

[Smokeychan1]

Originally Posted by dao

Well, whether it was Steve Cram or Foster one of them was strongly implying doping. I can't remember a commentator before being that blatant. One of the commentators kept going on about the doctors note and his "injury", to which the other replied "the controversy of that is small compared to the conversations that have been going on about this athlete." Hint hint. This went along with a barrage of comments about how bewildering his performance was, how his improvement has come out of nowhere, lines like "people won't know what to make of this" and so on. Hell he even told us that Seb Coe in the audience couldn't believe it either.

I'm guessing the Algerian must be have been a hot topic among the 1500m guys lately.

The first commentator - let's call him sicknote - was Steve Cram. What he commented on - i.e. the initial disqualification, the Dr's injury claim and then the sudden recovery of the athlete - was fair enough; such things were already reported as Olympic news.

The second commentator who made the comments you quoted was Brendan Foster.

I was disappointed to hear Cram repeat some of Brendan's veiled accusations in his later conversation with Gabby, however he wasn't as assertive as Brendan in his view and did add the caveat that the rest of the field expected to do well either underperformed or were injured.

As I said earlier, even if their suspicions are correct - and the testers will have up to 8 years to determine that - it is very bad form to air them prior to the results of the dope tests.

[Jaccobabe]

Originally Posted by Smokeychan1

The first commentator - let's call him sicknote - was Steve Cram. What he commented on - i.e. the initial disqualification, the Dr's injury claim and then the sudden recovery of the athlete - was fair enough; such things were already reported as Olympic news.

The second commentator who made the comments you quoted was Brendan Foster.

I was disappointed to hear Cram repeat some of Brendan's veiled accusations in his later conversation with Gabby, however he wasn't as assertive as Brendan in his view and did add the caveat that the rest of the field expected to do well either underperformed or were injured.

As I said earlier, even if their suspicions are correct - and the testers will have up to 8 years to determine that - it is very bad form to air them prior to the results of the dope tests.

Agreed.
As I am not British I didn't listen to this but it's bad when former athletes make these accusations without eny proof.

They might be correct of course, but...

[TheFridge]

Originally Posted by Smokeychan1

I'm discussing what was said, not reading minds. Stop being so rude.

Saying its gone over you're head is rude ? ,

9 out of 10 people in here picked up on it and you didn't , says it all.

[Smokeychan1]

Originally Posted by TheFridge

Saying its gone over you're head is rude ? ,

9 out of 10 people in here picked up on it and you didn't , says it all.

Then by all means provide a transcript of Steve Cram's 1500m commentary.

[Jimmy Connors]

Originally Posted by Smokeychan1

Then by all means provide a transcript of Steve Cram's 1500m commentary.

Cram from the final:


"Kicks for home in a style we haven't seen from him."
"Victory for a man who would not have come to these Olympic games expecting to win."
"Not many people thought he could do this."
"He won it in a manner which many will find surprising."
"Where on earth did he get that from?"
"That's the best run of his life"



Cram from the SF


"Now I've never seen Makhloufi run like this before, never."
"That's unusual to see this Algerian be this good."
"I'm not sure what I'm watching from Makhloufi there."
"Something that was rather surprising in the heats and he's been equally as eye-catching in the semi-final."

[Smokeychan1]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Connors

Cram from the final:


"Kicks for home in a style we haven't seen from him."
"Victory for a man who would not have come to these Olympic games expecting to win."
"Not many people thought he could do this."
"He won it in a manner which many will find surprising."
"Where on earth did he get that from?"
"That's the best run of his life"



Cram from the SF


"Now I've never seen Makhloufi run like this before, never."
"That's unusual to see this Algerian be this good."
"I'm not sure what I'm watching from Makhloufi there."
"Something that was rather surprising in the heats and he's been equally as eye-catching in the semi-final."

Thanks Jimmy. I only heard the 1500m commentary, but it seems the 800m commentary was no different. Not once did Cram imply the Algerian was doping.

Edit: I realise this isn't actually a transcript as there is a lot he did say (not imply) that isn't there. It would interesting to read the whole commentary between both Cram and Foster instead of comments taken in isolation.

[Mandark]

I recall Crammy expressed great surprise about Felix Sanchez's performance in his 400mH semi final where he left the others including Dai Greene for dead. "Where did he find that from?" "He's not shown any form all year?" I don't know what he said during the final as I was actually in the stadium.

[End-Em-All]

Originally Posted by Electra

My god, you really don't like the British, do you?

Cram & Coughlan were both great athletes. There has never been any hint or suggestion that Cram was anything other than extremely talented & hard working.

Unlike say, for the sake of argument, Mary De Bruin.

As a Brit and admirer of Cram's achievements, I think he should get a taste of his own medicine by having aspersions cast on his character. Why is it ok for him to do so and not have it done to him? He should shut his trap if he has no evidence or come out with the evidence if he has it. I really dislike all the innuendo.

[End-Em-All]

Originally Posted by Jaccobabe

So if Mo Farah had won with a bigger margin, would he also have been doped?

Not according to Cram and Foster, you can be sure of that

[End-Em-All]

Originally Posted by bean999

I was a bit surprised at Cram, even though it's mainly the Brit and American distance runners he follows closely. The odd thing to me, which is not what Cram was referring to I know but it perhaps influenced him, was not how far ahead the winner was but how far behind many other guys were.

As you say this Makhloufi has a sub-1'44" 800 time, so naturally he's fast. Interesting read here about him, trains in a group with Abubaker Kaki, spent the winter in Iten in Kenya, same place Mo Farah has been hanging out:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_re...thread=4736607

The other thing that comes out there is what poor racers the Kenyans are this time. Who wins in distance depends on his performance but also how the others race, and in this case the form athletes from Kenya (1,2,3 in the world) came 7th, 11th, 12th with ridiculously poor times.

Don't expect to hear any of these irrelevant details from the likes of Cram and Foster as it would indirectly lead to suspicious minds questioning their beloved Mo