How many publishers do you think given an option are going to allow the second hand market ? You may be able to trade in a game or to however a month maybe a few or even year or two down the line, at some stage you just know that one publisher will take take that one step and they all go and follow.
The system as outlined is so opaque, it could even allow publishers to restrict trade-ins to be for another one of their own catalogue of games exclusively.
As it's been described thus far, it appears the 'participating retailers' don't get any discretion in the transaction - each trade in involves MS databases.
2. Mandatory Game installs on a 500Gb HDD that you cannot upgrade.
I'd much rather just put a disc in & play without having to worry about HDD space & what I may need to uninstall etc... The install thing is a big part of why I buy most games on console instead of my PC (Only get driving games for PC because of the extra wheel options & shooters for Mouse/Keyboard controls).
It'd take a while before you ran out of space, and when you did, would it really be such a hassle to quickly delete an old game before installing a new one? It's not like you can't re-install the deleted one again later on, everything's tied to the account.
Plus you could always plug in an external USB3 HDD for more space...
It'd take a while before you ran out of space, and when you did, would it really be such a hassle to quickly delete an old game before installing a new one? It's not like you can't re-install the deleted one again later on, everything's tied to the account.
Plus you could always plug in an external USB3 HDD for more space...
Don't a lot of PS3 games require some form of installation? The first time I ran Last of Us it took a while to start with a really long loading screen.
See I think this proves exactly the point I'm trying to make. People are under a lot of false impressions and MS have yet to clarify some things. But people are already declaring it a failure before we know the full story.
1. Mandatory Kinect, Paying extra for something I don't want, will never use & don't have any room for anyway (People seem to be ignoring how large Kinect 2 actually is).
2. Mandatory Game installs on a 500Gb HDD that you cannot upgrade.
I'd much rather just put a disc in & play without having to worry about HDD space & what I may need to uninstall etc... The install thing is a big part of why I buy most games on console instead of my PC (Only get driving games for PC because of the extra wheel options & shooters for Mouse/Keyboard controls).
3. All the DRM stuff.
I buy a fair few Pre-owned games because there's a small game shop 2mins down the road which only sells pre-owned.
The always online thing isn't so big an issue for me, Unless my internet goes down (Had no internet for 2 weeks a few yrs back due to a fault).
1) Paying for Kinect is no different to paying for the fancy Wii-U controller that "you may not want". It's part of the overall vision and they want to make sure developers know that everyone has access to a Kinect, that carries some benefits, especially if you want to truly utilise it's full potential.
2) You can upgrade the HDD, external HDD's are supported via USB. Anyone complaining about Mandatory installs for anything other than that are crazy, playing games from disk is outdated concept and carries nothing but negative consequences.
3) The family sharing solution sounds good for those concerns about preowned games and yet you can still sell and trade your games in. This is the direction we are moving in whether we like it or not, the same applies to Steam and the upcoming Steambox, and even the PS4 since Sony can only guarantee DRM-Free policies on first party titles.
Of course if the X1 isn't for you then it isn't for you and it certainly won't be for everyone so it's cool we have for the time being three manufactures offering us different solutions, but it is important consumers are aware of the small print policies that both the new consoles carry.
Don't a lot of PS3 games require some form of installation? The first time I ran Last of Us it took a while to start with a really long loading screen.
Many do, but I'm not sure about The Last of Us. It didn't say anything about installing.
1) Paying for Kinect is no different to paying for the fancy Wii-U controller that "you may not want". It's part of the overall vision and they want to make sure developers know that everyone has access to a Kinect, that carries some benefits, especially if you want to truly utilise it's full potential.
Comparing it to the Wii U is hardly a positive comparison
Anyway. As MS is forcing the Kinect on people who want an Xbox One by making it mandatory and bundling it with each console, MS should be the one to swallow the cost.
Many do, but I'm not sure about The Last of Us. It didn't say anything about installing.
Comparing it to the Wii U is hardly a positive comparison
Anyway. As MS is forcing the Kinect on people who want an Xbox One by making it mandatory and bundling it with each console, MS should be the one to swallow the cost.
Why? MS want all consoles to have a hard drive too so should they swallow the cost too? Not everyone wants a hard drive and is happy to go without it.
I can see what MS are doing, preventing fragmentation so that developers know everyone has the same setup. I'm curious to see how they will take advantage of it going forward.
I think an HDD is a far more useful thing for *all* games than something used for voice/gesture control. Including an HDD as standard would also cost a lot less than including Kinect as standard.
I see why MS is doing it - as you say, it prevents fragmentation.
But the price difference is a mistake.
How many people will actually care that they're also getting Kinect for their extra £80?
I think an HDD is a far more useful thing for *all* games than something used for voice/gesture control. Including an HDD as standard would also cost a lot less than including Kinect as standard.
I see why MS is doing it - as you say, it prevents fragmentation.
But the price difference is a mistake.
How many people will actually care that they're also getting Kinect for their extra £80?
Not many, but I think once developers start coming up with some unique uses for it people will see the advantage of having it.
For me the biggest off put is Kinect. I hate it, I don't want it, I don't like that I'd be forced to use it and whether it can be disabled or not makes no difference it still has to be plugged in. I want a choice and MS have taken that away. I also don't like the fact I can't upgrade the HDD like I can in my PS3 and will in my PS4.
1) Paying for Kinect is no different to paying for the fancy Wii-U controller that "you may not want". It's part of the overall vision and they want to make sure developers know that everyone has access to a Kinect, that carries some benefits, especially if you want to truly utilise it's full potential. But the Wii U launched at £250. And now you can pick one up for under £180.. The Xbox costs more than twice as much.
2) You can upgrade the HDD, external HDD's are supported via USB. Anyone complaining about Mandatory installs for anything other than that are crazy, playing games from disk is outdated concept and carries nothing but negative consequences. No, you can't upgrade the HDD. You can plug in an external hard drive though. No one is complaining about mandatory installs, nothing new. But when the Xbox One can have games as big as 50GB... and your hard drive is 500GB.... thats basically 10 games. Also whats negative about playing a game from a disc, we still play our dvd's, games, music from a disc. The Xbox 360 plays all of it's games from the disc. Are you saying the Xbox 360 is the most backwards and crap console ever? Ok then.
3) The family sharing solution sounds good for those concerns about preowned games and yet you can still sell and trade your games in. This is the direction we are moving in whether we like it or not, the same applies to Steam and the upcoming Steambox, and even the PS4 since Sony can only guarantee DRM-Free policies on first party titles. We don't know enough on the family sharing yet to comment. MS have been vary vague
And you clearly don't know what DRM is. Of course there is DRM on PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox 360. It's just a whole othr type of DRM on Xbox One. The PS4 does not have the same DRM the Xbox has. Period.
Of course if the X1 isn't for you then it isn't for you and it certainly won't be for everyone so it's cool we have for the time being three manufactures offering us different solutions, but it is important consumers are aware of the small print policies that both the new consoles carry.
You mean the small print of the Xbox One which waives your right to take Microsoft to court....
There are a lot of mistakes Microsoft have made. Their policies are designed to make publishers and retailers happy. Not the consumer.
It'd take a while before you ran out of space, and when you did, would it really be such a hassle to quickly delete an old game before installing a new one? It's not like you can't re-install the deleted one again later on, everything's tied to the account.
Plus you could always plug in an external USB3 HDD for more space...
The 500Gb HDD in my PS3 is nearly full, Going to switch it with a 1Tb drive soon.
Don't forget its not just games been installed, There's also things like demo's, DLC, Patches, updates, App's etc...
Also consider that games are likely only going to require more space.
Thing with me is that Im constantly going back & replaying older games, Sometimes not for long, If I've got 20mins to spare before something's on TV or I need to go out somewhere I'll often play through a level on an older title.
Having to constantly worry about HDD space, Think about what games I want to delete to make room for something else is just a hassle I'd rather not have to think about.
There is external storage but again its more stuff you have to have lying around, Plus I've found external USB HDD's to be more prone to issues than internal drives. I've had 2 USB HDD's suddenly wipe all the data for no reason while I've never had any issue with internal drives.
Considering the PS3 & PS4 allow you to upgrade the internal HDD, I don't see why this isn't possible on the XB1?
1) Paying for Kinect is no different to paying for the fancy Wii-U controller that "you may not want". It's part of the overall vision and they want to make sure developers know that everyone has access to a Kinect, that carries some benefits, especially if you want to truly utilise it's full potential.
OK, But even if they want to bundle Kinect 2 with every XB1 to ensure everyone has one, Why make plugging it in & having it setup mandatory?
If every XB1 comes with kinect then surely thats enough as every XB1 owner still has kinect, I don't see any reason why it has to be plugged in & active just to ensure developers use it more.
On the other side, Move isn't mandatory on either PS3 or PS4 yet plenty of developers still made great use of Move's functions.
But according to MS only at participating retailers.
Like I said I've a very small independent game store 2mins down the road which is where I buy a lot of my games from, Chances of them been a participating retailer are zero.
Of course if the X1 isn't for you then it isn't for you and it certainly won't be for everyone so it's cool
It isn't for me (Unless they change at least the mandatory Kinect part & allow upgradable internal HDD's).
Just a shame im going to miss out on so many XB exclusives, Including several continuing franchises which I enjoy just because of a few unnecisary things MS feel the need to do despite them not having any real benefits to the majority of gamers.
I'm curious, after reading everything and heard the outcry from the Internet you would think MS have ruined console gaming forever. But if you really look at it, there are only two main issues as far as I can see.
1) The console has to connect once every 24 hours
2) You can't easily lend a disc to a friend
Is there anything else?
If you look at point one, how many people is it honestly going to affect on here? I mean really, the scenarios some people have come up with are so far fetched. I can't remember the last time I didn't have a Internet connection at home apart from when moving house, and in that case playing a game is the last thing on my mind.
If your net connection really does go down for over 24 hours then I'm sure you can easily tether your smartphone to the console to quickly to the authentication. I mean really, the people moaning about it on here, using their Internet connections I'm sure it will only affect 0.01% of people.
As for the second point, yeah it's a pain but the whole sharing your games library remotely sounds so much better. No more having to worry about who has what game and in what condition it will come back in. Instead just add your friend to your "family list" and they can pick any game you own and you can play it too at the same time it seems.
Have I honestly missed some massive point that has caused the Internet to have a collective moan at MS? Or is it a case of people moaning for the sake of having a moan?
What you should be really asking is what is right with the Xbox One?
If I wanted Digital Distribution I would stick with PC and Steam. It's much more superior it's not even funny. Free and optional platform, no subscription to play online games, offers cheaper games and overall just offers a better gaming experience. The Xbox One isn't even cheap to start with and buying games on that console would cost more in the long run over a PC. It offers really no real advantage over the PC. Twitch TV? That's sorted. Controller? That will be used on my PC. Only thing it has as exlusives. Well, that's the same scenario with the PS4 and Wii U.
If I wanted a gaming console PS4 would be the better choice. Cheaper, no mandatory camera, better specs, no messing about with online check in and most importantly ownership. Big factor right there.
TV, TV, TV, TV? Erm, I have Smart TV and a digital box. I'm sure many of other people with the same demographic they're targetting have those too. Why on earth would we want another box with the same features? I don't think there's that many lazy people who would want a camera doing their silly commands over a remote that's more effective anyway.
There are a lot of mistakes Microsoft have made. Their policies are designed to make publishers and retailers happy. Not the consumer.
Thanks for making that super awkward to quote you point to point, there's a quote button for a reason. :sleep:
But the Wii U launched at £250. And now you can pick one up for under £180.. The Xbox costs more than twice as much.
But the X1 offer a true Next-generation experience, there's a lot of horsepower there. You get what you pay for, I fail to see any argument in that.
No, you can't upgrade the HDD. You can plug in an external hard drive though.
..just wow. It's come to this level of nitpicking now?
No one is complaining about mandatory installs, nothing new. But when the Xbox One can have games as big as 50GB... and your hard drive is 500GB.... thats basically 10 games. Also whats negative about playing a game from a disc, we still play our dvd's, games, music from a disc. The Xbox 360 plays all of it's games from the disc. Are you saying the Xbox 360 is the most backwards and crap console ever? Ok then.
Plenty of people are complaining about mandatory installs, many for space concerns, others because they simply want to play from disk which to my mind is backward thinking. I don't think we'll be seeing many 50GB games just yet, remember X1 is about efficiency and if the 360 is anything to go by this will continue. PSN is a mess because of this and is the reason why everyone is running out buying 1TB HDD's. I have over 300 games (mixture of Indie/XBLA and Retail) on my 320gb HDD on the 360. How much space IS enough?
We don't know enough on the family sharing yet to comment. MS have been vary vague
And you clearly don't know what DRM is. Of course there is DRM on PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox 360. It's just a whole othr type of DRM on Xbox One. The PS4 does not have the same DRM the Xbox has. Period.
We know enough that it can be "exploited". Even Major Nelson said as much. In fact he made a point to keep bringing it up when interviewed. 10 people in your designated "family" can all share games between them one at a time.
The PS4 can have the same type of DRM on all third party games subject to the publishers request. Sony can only guarantee you that you won't need an online connection to their first party content and nothing more. Saying "it won't period" is burying your head in the sand.
You mean the small print of the Xbox One which waives your right to take Microsoft to court...
On occasion I have rented films on my 360 for myself & friends to watch over a few beer at the w/end, now with the XB1 if the Kinect detects too many people (as yet no-one knows how many) I will be asked to pay extra?...
Over the summer months where many a weekend is spent away from home, in caravans etc., to bring the XB1 for late night gaming is also out, no Internet connection, so if I leave home at 2pm on a Fri, it's no good for gaming come 2pm Sat as I can't check in online
Also, if 2 people in same household have 2 separate Xbox accounts I assume only the one who bought the game can use it on their account, or is the game locked to machine?
I'm probably one of the few that prefer the design of the XB1 over the PS4 but until Microsoft ease some of the restrictions, no-way will I be buying it
Mind you, I bet a certain someone here would love to give his 2 cents worth :D
I think it's incredibly sad watching a grown man crying about such things, him mum must be proud. He sounds like a complete ****. "Annoyed gamer" please....
His rant about MS lack of support for "the troops" only shows how ignorant/childish he is.
Kinect, is BIG wrong. I don't want that BS weird thing looking at me. And even if I cover up the lens, I know the thing is still listening. If I disconnect it it will probably give me error messages to plug the damm in in!!!
Another thing is Xbox Live does not offer value for money as PS+
It's too late, Xbox One is really not an option right now. Maybe when the price hits under £200, I'll think about it. And even then they better get rid of the 24 internet checks. I know if I own the content or not, thank you.
I think it's incredibly sad watching a grown man crying about such things, him mum must be proud. He sounds like a complete ****. "Annoyed gamer" please....
His rant about MS lack of support for "the troops" only shows how ignorant/childish he is.
And yet if he was ranting about another company you'd applaud him right? Ah no, of course not, how could someone like you be so hypocritical :rolleyes:
Why is his rant about lack of support for the troops ignorant?
He's just talking about one part of the market who have been alienated from purchasing an Xbox One.
And yet if he was ranting about another company you'd applaud him right? Ah no, of course not, how could someone like you be so hypocritical :rolleyes:
No I'd honestly feel the same if he was crying about Nintendo or Sony in the same way. It's nothing to do with MS, it's his limp-wristed sense of self-entitlement that annoys me.
Why is his rant about lack of support for the troops ignorant?
He's just talking about one part of the market who have been alienated from purchasing an Xbox One.
Because he said they were over there laying down their lives to protect us.
Comments
The system as outlined is so opaque, it could even allow publishers to restrict trade-ins to be for another one of their own catalogue of games exclusively.
As it's been described thus far, it appears the 'participating retailers' don't get any discretion in the transaction - each trade in involves MS databases.
It'd take a while before you ran out of space, and when you did, would it really be such a hassle to quickly delete an old game before installing a new one? It's not like you can't re-install the deleted one again later on, everything's tied to the account.
Plus you could always plug in an external USB3 HDD for more space...
Don't a lot of PS3 games require some form of installation? The first time I ran Last of Us it took a while to start with a really long loading screen.
This a million times over.
1) Paying for Kinect is no different to paying for the fancy Wii-U controller that "you may not want". It's part of the overall vision and they want to make sure developers know that everyone has access to a Kinect, that carries some benefits, especially if you want to truly utilise it's full potential.
2) You can upgrade the HDD, external HDD's are supported via USB. Anyone complaining about Mandatory installs for anything other than that are crazy, playing games from disk is outdated concept and carries nothing but negative consequences.
3) The family sharing solution sounds good for those concerns about preowned games and yet you can still sell and trade your games in. This is the direction we are moving in whether we like it or not, the same applies to Steam and the upcoming Steambox, and even the PS4 since Sony can only guarantee DRM-Free policies on first party titles.
Of course if the X1 isn't for you then it isn't for you and it certainly won't be for everyone so it's cool we have for the time being three manufactures offering us different solutions, but it is important consumers are aware of the small print policies that both the new consoles carry.
Many do, but I'm not sure about The Last of Us. It didn't say anything about installing.
Comparing it to the Wii U is hardly a positive comparison
Anyway. As MS is forcing the Kinect on people who want an Xbox One by making it mandatory and bundling it with each console, MS should be the one to swallow the cost.
Why? MS want all consoles to have a hard drive too so should they swallow the cost too? Not everyone wants a hard drive and is happy to go without it.
I can see what MS are doing, preventing fragmentation so that developers know everyone has the same setup. I'm curious to see how they will take advantage of it going forward.
I see why MS is doing it - as you say, it prevents fragmentation.
But the price difference is a mistake.
How many people will actually care that they're also getting Kinect for their extra £80?
Not many, but I think once developers start coming up with some unique uses for it people will see the advantage of having it.
There are a lot of mistakes Microsoft have made. Their policies are designed to make publishers and retailers happy. Not the consumer.
Don't forget its not just games been installed, There's also things like demo's, DLC, Patches, updates, App's etc...
Also consider that games are likely only going to require more space.
Thing with me is that Im constantly going back & replaying older games, Sometimes not for long, If I've got 20mins to spare before something's on TV or I need to go out somewhere I'll often play through a level on an older title.
Having to constantly worry about HDD space, Think about what games I want to delete to make room for something else is just a hassle I'd rather not have to think about.
There is external storage but again its more stuff you have to have lying around, Plus I've found external USB HDD's to be more prone to issues than internal drives. I've had 2 USB HDD's suddenly wipe all the data for no reason while I've never had any issue with internal drives.
Considering the PS3 & PS4 allow you to upgrade the internal HDD, I don't see why this isn't possible on the XB1?
OK, But even if they want to bundle Kinect 2 with every XB1 to ensure everyone has one, Why make plugging it in & having it setup mandatory?
If every XB1 comes with kinect then surely thats enough as every XB1 owner still has kinect, I don't see any reason why it has to be plugged in & active just to ensure developers use it more.
On the other side, Move isn't mandatory on either PS3 or PS4 yet plenty of developers still made great use of Move's functions.
Out of interest the negatives are?
I've never had any negative consequences from playing a game off a disc.
But according to MS only at participating retailers.
Like I said I've a very small independent game store 2mins down the road which is where I buy a lot of my games from, Chances of them been a participating retailer are zero.
It isn't for me (Unless they change at least the mandatory Kinect part & allow upgradable internal HDD's).
Just a shame im going to miss out on so many XB exclusives, Including several continuing franchises which I enjoy just because of a few unnecisary things MS feel the need to do despite them not having any real benefits to the majority of gamers.
What you should be really asking is what is right with the Xbox One?
If I wanted Digital Distribution I would stick with PC and Steam. It's much more superior it's not even funny. Free and optional platform, no subscription to play online games, offers cheaper games and overall just offers a better gaming experience. The Xbox One isn't even cheap to start with and buying games on that console would cost more in the long run over a PC. It offers really no real advantage over the PC. Twitch TV? That's sorted. Controller? That will be used on my PC. Only thing it has as exlusives. Well, that's the same scenario with the PS4 and Wii U.
If I wanted a gaming console PS4 would be the better choice. Cheaper, no mandatory camera, better specs, no messing about with online check in and most importantly ownership. Big factor right there.
TV, TV, TV, TV? Erm, I have Smart TV and a digital box. I'm sure many of other people with the same demographic they're targetting have those too. Why on earth would we want another box with the same features? I don't think there's that many lazy people who would want a camera doing their silly commands over a remote that's more effective anyway.
Thanks for making that super awkward to quote you point to point, there's a quote button for a reason. :sleep:
But the X1 offer a true Next-generation experience, there's a lot of horsepower there. You get what you pay for, I fail to see any argument in that.
..just wow. It's come to this level of nitpicking now?
Plenty of people are complaining about mandatory installs, many for space concerns, others because they simply want to play from disk which to my mind is backward thinking. I don't think we'll be seeing many 50GB games just yet, remember X1 is about efficiency and if the 360 is anything to go by this will continue. PSN is a mess because of this and is the reason why everyone is running out buying 1TB HDD's. I have over 300 games (mixture of Indie/XBLA and Retail) on my 320gb HDD on the 360. How much space IS enough?
We know enough that it can be "exploited". Even Major Nelson said as much. In fact he made a point to keep bringing it up when interviewed. 10 people in your designated "family" can all share games between them one at a time.
The PS4 can have the same type of DRM on all third party games subject to the publishers request. Sony can only guarantee you that you won't need an online connection to their first party content and nothing more. Saying "it won't period" is burying your head in the sand.
Like I give a SHIT, I just want to play games.
Over the summer months where many a weekend is spent away from home, in caravans etc., to bring the XB1 for late night gaming is also out, no Internet connection, so if I leave home at 2pm on a Fri, it's no good for gaming come 2pm Sat as I can't check in online
Also, if 2 people in same household have 2 separate Xbox accounts I assume only the one who bought the game can use it on their account, or is the game locked to machine?
I'm probably one of the few that prefer the design of the XB1 over the PS4 but until Microsoft ease some of the restrictions, no-way will I be buying it
If a publisher wanted to demand online authentication for a game, they could do that right now on PS3 or 360.
Mind you, I bet a certain someone here would love to give his 2 cents worth
Yup they could, but in case you haven't noticed times are changing.
I think it's incredibly sad watching a grown man crying about such things, him mum must be proud. He sounds like a complete ****. "Annoyed gamer" please....
His rant about MS lack of support for "the troops" only shows how ignorant/childish he is.
Another thing is Xbox Live does not offer value for money as PS+
It's too late, Xbox One is really not an option right now. Maybe when the price hits under £200, I'll think about it. And even then they better get rid of the 24 internet checks. I know if I own the content or not, thank you.
And yet if he was ranting about another company you'd applaud him right? Ah no, of course not, how could someone like you be so hypocritical :rolleyes:
Why is his rant about lack of support for the troops ignorant?
He's just talking about one part of the market who have been alienated from purchasing an Xbox One.
Pretty much sums up how the majority of Gamers feel regardless of what console they own this gen.
No I'd honestly feel the same if he was crying about Nintendo or Sony in the same way. It's nothing to do with MS, it's his limp-wristed sense of self-entitlement that annoys me.
Because he said they were over there laying down their lives to protect us.
Please educate me as to what the role of the army is...
Oh please LMAO this is not the thread. Do some research.