Well, were still spending 3 nights in Edinburgh 12-13-14th September on our driving holiday.
I reckon it's going to be in a huge ferment - how we are going to resist getting into discussion I know not. Is worrying me a bit lest it gets aggressive..
I didnt see it but I did hear that Salmond has officially decided to default on our share of the UK's debt. I think he is relying on peoples ignorance of financial matters by saying 'we will use the pound' but he does not go on to explain that using it outside the vital currency union is vastly different. Whatever currency he cobbles together, his refereing to financial sector workers as 'spives and speculators' and his frequent insulting of Sterling will have bankers queing up to demolish him. If we do separate he will have no option but to nationalise all bank deposits to stop money pouring out of Scotland as people and business cautiously move their money into England. I already have.
Swinney did the same in his debate. There does seem to be a deliberate attempt by the SNP to deceive their fellow Scots into thinking that they can just use the pound as they do today. Obviously an independent Scotland can use the pound, or the dollar, or the yen, but as you point out that is not currency union. And to cover all bases the SNP says that when Westminster politicians say no CU, they don't mean it. Every time I hear anyone from the SNP on the radio or in the papers they say this, SNP MP Stuart Hosey said so today on BBC R5. Pity is opinion polls suggest a lot of Scots have been fooled by this deception.
it doesn't meet all of the criteria for EU membership atm , even if YES supporters will try to say it does
I have no doubt Scotland will get into the EU but the timescales and terms under which it joins I don't think will be anywhere near as favourable as is hoped
a condition of joining the EU is also a commitment to adopt the euro , something that the SNP have been strangely quiet about during all the currency discussions
Because it's a meaningless commitment even assuming Scotland was treated as a new member rather than one of two states formed from an already existing member. In order to join the Euro you must be in the latest version of ERM. There's, at present, no obligation to do so and even if there were you've also got to stick within the limits which if Scotland did adopt it's own currency pegged to Sterling might not succeed. Nor is such a requirement to join ERM likely to be passed by the non eurozone members of the EU.
I'm fairly certain Salmond answered a question about having to join the Euro in the BBC debate.
Well, were still spending 3 nights in Edinburgh 12-13-14th September on our driving holiday.
I reckon it's going to be in a huge ferment - how we are going to resist getting into discussion I know not. Is worrying me a bit lest it gets aggressive..
hi trevgo you are right.. but not in the way you expected..
To become an EU member, a country has to have a possible route to joining the Euro. That includes having your own central bank managing your own currency.
Not the case. There's not even a requirement that you have your own currency. Nor that you not already be sharing one.
Nor is it written in stone that Scotland would have to apply as a new entrant rather than negotiate inheriting membership alongside the rUK.
Besides which the reality of the situation is that unless the availability of the Bank of England as Lender of Last Resort is removed from them the majority of banks in an independent Scotland will be branches of UK wide organisations that will still be backed by the rUK as far as short term liquidity crises are concerned. I'm highlighting that later phrase a people seem to still be under the delusion as to what the actual function of a LoLR is. It's not to be a blank cheque, it's to guarantee that banks are able to pay their depositors when their funds have been invested and are not immediately available. That latter was always the danger in combining banks and building societies. It's fairly shocking that people are willing to accept the word of various Labour chancellors, one of whom is only putative, on this. The only treaty obligation on any government is that of protecting investors. They have no obligation to save a bank from the results of it's own mismanagement. That aside, if branches of multinationals are operating in Scotland and have a call on the BoE for emergency liquidity funds then doesn't it make sense for the BoE to have some regulatory input into those, other than just their branches in the rUK>
Currency union means the UK guaranteeing the debt of Scotland. Just as with the euro, the EU, meaning mainly Germany, paid the debts of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain, those countries now having to repay it to the EU.
No UK government will agree to a deal where our taxes guarantee the debt of another country, they'd be booted out at the next election. If Scotland becomes an independent coutnry you wouldn't accept being responsible for the debt of another country, and neither will we.
No UK government will agree to a deal where our taxes guarantee the debt of another country, they'd be booted out at the next election. If Scotland becomes an independent coutnry you wouldn't accept being responsible for the debt of another country, and neither will we.
Let's assume (even though it's scary to do so) that it's Miiband at the negotiating table next summer. He will know that he'll already lose 40+ MPs in March 2016 (which may bring down his government and force an election in 2016) so he'll have to appeal to England and Wales (he has no MP in NI) to stand any chance of keeping his job. Promising to underwrite Scotland's economy with English and Welsh pension funds is something even he would do.
The situation for Labour in Scotland will be different as if a London Labour government refused CU then that might drive votes to the SNP but that wouldn't be MIliband's problem any more and what direction they, and the other UK-wide, parties would go post-independence is anyone's guess.
Charging fees to students from the rest of the UK to study in an independent Scotland would be "incompatible" with EU law, a former EU judge has claimed.
That's nothing to do with the legal system. It's simply that the EU accept it as a residency issue just as they would if another member state decided to allow regional variations in payments. For instance if students from Paris had free tuition in a Parisian university those from elsewhere in the EU would also have it but no those from the rest of France.
The choice would then be whether Scotland continued to offer free tuition or adopted the German practice of awarding bursaries dependant on how long someone's been resident. That complies fully with EU regulations and allows them to restrict free education.
Especially the 35 policy fields which are non-negotiable
Do you have any particular one of those in mind that Scotland does not comply with? Besides which in the very sentence before it says they're non negotiable it says that they are. In the sentence after it says it's up to the applicant state how the meet those requirements. And in the sentence after that it implies that all that is needed is a timetable for when that will be.
well the last figures I saw showed that Scotland was running a larger deficit than the rest of the UK - but the difference is marginal and simply show how irrelevant Scotland is to the overall budget.
Did those include the revenue from oil, which it should be remembered are lower due to rebates on future investment commitments.
Well, were still spending 3 nights in Edinburgh 12-13-14th September on our driving holiday.
I reckon it's going to be in a huge ferment - how we are going to resist getting into discussion I know not. Is worrying me a bit lest it gets aggressive..
I wouldn't worry about it, if folks are chatting about it don't engage and simply say it's nothing to do with you.
Don't take the back and forth on here as indicative of the general Scottish population. I rarely see or hear any heated discussions about it. Most folk I know are fed up with it all and just want it over.
Do you have any particular one of those in mind that Scotland does not comply with? Besides which in the very sentence before it says they're non negotiable it says that they are. In the sentence after it says it's up to the applicant state how the meet those requirements. And in the sentence after that it implies that all that is needed is a timetable for when that will be.
Here we go again, Europe time.......
Before we start this circular tedium again let me just say one thing.
We simply don't know if Scotland will be accepted into the EU on which terms. While it is pretty sure that we would be in the EU at some point, that point hasn't been identified as of yet.
Before we start this circular tedium again let me just say one thing.
We simply don't know if Scotland will be accepted into the EU on which terms. While it is pretty sure that we would be in the EU at some point, that point hasn't been identified as of yet.
How fortunate for Scotland. I've been out today to buy a new vacuum cleaner before the EU Nazis decree that we can only have one powered by a hamster wheel.
Farage for PM.
How fortunate for Scotland. I've been out today to buy a new vacuum cleaner before the EU Nazis decree that we can only have one powered by a hamster wheel.
Farage for PM.
He probably won't even get elected as an MP. But this isn't the thread for that discussion.
"Female indy supporters: new BT ad was patronising to women
Female nationalists have criticised an "insulting" Better Together campaign video which they claim depicts Scottish women as "daft ditherers" who do not understand enough about the independence referendum
The YouTube video features an actress voicing concerns about independence which Better Together say was drawn from the verbatim comments of women in focus groups and doorstep canvassing.
Better Together urges women to vote No not only for "the love of our country" but for "the love of our families"."
I didnt see it but I did hear that Salmond has officially decided to default on our share of the UK's debt. I think he is relying on peoples ignorance of financial matters by saying 'we will use the pound' but he does not go on to explain that using it outside the vital currency union is vastly different. Whatever currency he cobbles together, his refereing to financial sector workers as 'spives and speculators' and his frequent insulting of Sterling will have bankers queing up to demolish him. If we do separate he will have no option but to nationalise all bank deposits to stop money pouring out of Scotland as people and business cautiously move their money into England. I already have.
Kennedy covered this in detail, and as you stressed he demolished the very idea of it, pointing out that we would would start off as pariahs in the eyes of the international financial sector.
And as bhoy7 pointed out, a negative against him could be that his party is in govt, but again he conceded this and pointed out that he's also been a vocal opponent of many of their policies and still carried the debate, even silencing the shouty, jeering rent a Yes mob that tend to turn up at these things.
Salmond's running about now shouting about bringing on Cameron like a kid who's just won a scrap in the playground (as opposed to his ominous silence after the first debate), but if he watched Kennedy operate last night you can bet he'll be keeping schtum about taking him on.
"The BBC is tonight facing calls to end its relationship with a London based pro-Union lobbying group after it emerged the organisation is to hold a dinner that will promote the No campaign.
In an announcement tonight the CBI has confirmed Prime Minister David Cameron will attend an event in support of Better Together campaign."
Let's assume (even though it's scary to do so) that it's Miiband at the negotiating table next summer. He will know that he'll already lose 40+ MPs in March 2016 (which may bring down his government and force an election in 2016) so he'll have to appeal to England and Wales (he has no MP in NI) to stand any chance of keeping his job. Promising to underwrite Scotland's economy with English and Welsh pension funds is something even he would do.
.
Surely the opposite is true. He wouldn't want tell us we now guarantee Scotland's debts, and remember he's said that in the event of a yes vote next month then no CU will be in Labours manifesto next year.
Comments
I reckon it's going to be in a huge ferment - how we are going to resist getting into discussion I know not. Is worrying me a bit lest it gets aggressive..
Swinney did the same in his debate. There does seem to be a deliberate attempt by the SNP to deceive their fellow Scots into thinking that they can just use the pound as they do today. Obviously an independent Scotland can use the pound, or the dollar, or the yen, but as you point out that is not currency union. And to cover all bases the SNP says that when Westminster politicians say no CU, they don't mean it. Every time I hear anyone from the SNP on the radio or in the papers they say this, SNP MP Stuart Hosey said so today on BBC R5. Pity is opinion polls suggest a lot of Scots have been fooled by this deception.
Because it's a meaningless commitment even assuming Scotland was treated as a new member rather than one of two states formed from an already existing member. In order to join the Euro you must be in the latest version of ERM. There's, at present, no obligation to do so and even if there were you've also got to stick within the limits which if Scotland did adopt it's own currency pegged to Sterling might not succeed. Nor is such a requirement to join ERM likely to be passed by the non eurozone members of the EU.
I'm fairly certain Salmond answered a question about having to join the Euro in the BBC debate.
hi trevgo you are right.. but not in the way you expected..
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/orange-march-to-go-ahead-before-independence-vote-1-3484465
Oh Lordy!
We've staying at the G & V Hotel on the Royal Mile too
Should be a fun packed few days
Not the case. There's not even a requirement that you have your own currency. Nor that you not already be sharing one.
Nor is it written in stone that Scotland would have to apply as a new entrant rather than negotiate inheriting membership alongside the rUK.
Currency union means the UK guaranteeing the debt of Scotland. Just as with the euro, the EU, meaning mainly Germany, paid the debts of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain, those countries now having to repay it to the EU.
No UK government will agree to a deal where our taxes guarantee the debt of another country, they'd be booted out at the next election. If Scotland becomes an independent coutnry you wouldn't accept being responsible for the debt of another country, and neither will we.
Let's assume (even though it's scary to do so) that it's Miiband at the negotiating table next summer. He will know that he'll already lose 40+ MPs in March 2016 (which may bring down his government and force an election in 2016) so he'll have to appeal to England and Wales (he has no MP in NI) to stand any chance of keeping his job. Promising to underwrite Scotland's economy with English and Welsh pension funds is something even he would do.
The situation for Labour in Scotland will be different as if a London Labour government refused CU then that might drive votes to the SNP but that wouldn't be MIliband's problem any more and what direction they, and the other UK-wide, parties would go post-independence is anyone's guess.
That's nothing to do with the legal system. It's simply that the EU accept it as a residency issue just as they would if another member state decided to allow regional variations in payments. For instance if students from Paris had free tuition in a Parisian university those from elsewhere in the EU would also have it but no those from the rest of France.
The choice would then be whether Scotland continued to offer free tuition or adopted the German practice of awarding bursaries dependant on how long someone's been resident. That complies fully with EU regulations and allows them to restrict free education.
Do you have any particular one of those in mind that Scotland does not comply with? Besides which in the very sentence before it says they're non negotiable it says that they are. In the sentence after it says it's up to the applicant state how the meet those requirements. And in the sentence after that it implies that all that is needed is a timetable for when that will be.
Did those include the revenue from oil, which it should be remembered are lower due to rebates on future investment commitments.
I wouldn't worry about it, if folks are chatting about it don't engage and simply say it's nothing to do with you.
Don't take the back and forth on here as indicative of the general Scottish population. I rarely see or hear any heated discussions about it. Most folk I know are fed up with it all and just want it over.
Here we go again, Europe time.......
Before we start this circular tedium again let me just say one thing.
We simply don't know if Scotland will be accepted into the EU on which terms. While it is pretty sure that we would be in the EU at some point, that point hasn't been identified as of yet.
How fortunate for Scotland. I've been out today to buy a new vacuum cleaner before the EU Nazis decree that we can only have one powered by a hamster wheel.
Farage for PM.
He probably won't even get elected as an MP. But this isn't the thread for that discussion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11058007/Alex-Salmond-criticises-leading-political-journalist-during-heated-interview.html
It did actually - you seem to keep overestimating the importance of Scotlands contribution to the economy - why?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2735991/Anti-independence-campaign-slammed-sexist-advert-aimed-undecided-women-ahead-month-s-referendum.html
"Anti-independence campaign slammed for 'sexist' advert aimed at undecided women ahead of next month's referendum
* Video features a mother talking about her concerns on independence
* Actress says 'there’s only so many hours in the day' to decide how to vote
* Nationalist campaign group Women For Independence criticise video
* Nationalists said the campaign depicts Scottish women as 'daft ditherers'"
also covered by the Herald
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/female-indy-supporters-new-bt-ad-was-patronising-to-women.1409140086
"Female indy supporters: new BT ad was patronising to women
Female nationalists have criticised an "insulting" Better Together campaign video which they claim depicts Scottish women as "daft ditherers" who do not understand enough about the independence referendum
The YouTube video features an actress voicing concerns about independence which Better Together say was drawn from the verbatim comments of women in focus groups and doorstep canvassing.
Better Together urges women to vote No not only for "the love of our country" but for "the love of our families"."
So nationalist groups criticise an anti-independence advert? How is that news? A group called "Women For Independence" are hardly going to praise it.
I'm not sure quoting the Daily Mail is any better than NewsnetScotland.
Thanks for that and here's the youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--68wMD2XbI
He just has no answers and loves conflating using the pound with a currency union >:(
I'm surprised it's been criticised..
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/patronising-bt-woman
“Patronising Better Together Lady” Is The New Meme For Scottish Nationalists
A TV broadcast playing on women’s fears of an independent Scotland has been hijacked.
Kennedy covered this in detail, and as you stressed he demolished the very idea of it, pointing out that we would would start off as pariahs in the eyes of the international financial sector.
And as bhoy7 pointed out, a negative against him could be that his party is in govt, but again he conceded this and pointed out that he's also been a vocal opponent of many of their policies and still carried the debate, even silencing the shouty, jeering rent a Yes mob that tend to turn up at these things.
Salmond's running about now shouting about bringing on Cameron like a kid who's just won a scrap in the playground (as opposed to his ominous silence after the first debate), but if he watched Kennedy operate last night you can bet he'll be keeping schtum about taking him on.
"The BBC is tonight facing calls to end its relationship with a London based pro-Union lobbying group after it emerged the organisation is to hold a dinner that will promote the No campaign.
In an announcement tonight the CBI has confirmed Prime Minister David Cameron will attend an event in support of Better Together campaign."
Farage has more chance of being an MP than Salmond has of being PM of an independent Scotland.
Surely the opposite is true. He wouldn't want tell us we now guarantee Scotland's debts, and remember he's said that in the event of a yes vote next month then no CU will be in Labours manifesto next year.