But isn't Uncharted an action adventure like Ryse? I'm not sure I see the difference, or why one is fine and the other is going in the wrong direction. Are Sony incessantly focusing on it? There is Uncharted, and The Last of Us, done by Naughty Dog. And Heavy Rain and Beyond done by Quantic Dream, that's 2 studio's making cinematic games for Sony, i'd hardly call that incessant. What other games are you thinking of? I didn't see the conversation you had with Hotbird about this type of thing, so maybe I'm not in a position to comment, I just don't really understand your point.
I saw it and Hotbird is right. He's doing a MS 180!
But isn't Uncharted an action adventure like Ryse? I'm not sure I see the difference, or why one is fine and the other is going in the wrong direction. Are Sony incessantly focusing on it? There is Uncharted, and The Last of Us, done by Naughty Dog. And Heavy Rain and Beyond done by Quantic Dream, that's 2 studio's making cinematic games for Sony, i'd hardly call that incessant. What other games are you thinking of? I didn't see the conversation you had with Hotbird about this type of thing, so maybe I'm not in a position to comment, I just don't really understand your point.
Yeah it is, and I enjoyed it!
This is something I didn't want to get into on this thread but by all means join in on the original discussion. In a nutshell the earlier argument was in reference to the direction of the overall industry, the dumbing down of games such as Tomb Raider and to some extent Halo. It's something I personally attribute to Sony due to their success with such titles and their incessant focus on Hollywood gaming, ie. flashy, bold and highly polished games at the expense of depth to gameplay, AI, scope, etc.
That's not to say I haven't enjoyed my fair share of linear, on-rail titles but it's not relevant to my anticipation of a single title like Ryse, only to those trying to point score from previous arguments, not least for the fact we know so very little about the game at this point.
Hey man, I enjoyed Uncharted 2. My argument there was towards the direction Sony are taking gaming with their incessant focus on it. I don't hate storyline, I just don't like it to become the determining factor to a game, I disliked Heavy Rain, I don't like the look of Beyond: Two Souls. Ryse is an action adventure.
Uncharted and Ryse are both action adventure games. The underlying game with Uncharted is a decent cover based shooter which happens to be elevated above other games due to its storytelling through cinematic presentation.
I cant really comment on Ryse as its not actually been released yet but from what we have seen I would expect to see a decent hack and slash type affair which has the potential to be elevated above other games through it cinematic storytelling if they can pull that off.
Heavy Rain and Beyond are games which seem to put an emotional storytelling at the root of their game but that started back with Fahrenheit.
Uncharted and Ryse are both action adventure games. The underlying game with Uncharted is a decent cover based shooter which happens to be elevated above other games due to its storytelling through cinematic presentation.
I cant really comment on Ryse as its not actually been released yet but from what we have seen I would expect to see a decent hack and slash type affair which has the potential to be elevated above other games through it cinematic storytelling if they can pull that off.
Heavy Rain and Beyond are games which seem to put an emotional storytelling at the root of their game but that started back with Fahrenheit.
What interests me most about Ryse is the combat, the weighty, realistic look to it is what I find intriguing, plus the hope that Crytek throw in a few surprises and introduce some mythology and hopefully a supernatural element.
The storyline is secondary, if it's good and emotionally engaging then I'll no doubt enjoy it more, but if that combat isn't up to much then it will be a disappointment.
My original comments focused on everything from Gran Turismo, God of War 3, Killzone, Uncharted, TLoU, Heavy Rain, Beyond and more. Uncharted was always a good game but I felt it was overrated as the core gameplay wasn't refined compared to rival TPS of the time nor even compared to other elements of the game itself. It was the cinematic presentation and exceptional voice acting that elevated that title to it's high status. Overall as a package it works and comes together really well, Uncharted is really only one single example in the argument that I was making and until we know more about Ryse I don't see how we can draw comparisons.
I have nothing against cinematic presentation, only if it's at the expense of core gameplay.
I think what he means is that he thinks the games are great but he doesn't like that they exist.
Or that these wonderful gaming experiences where we feel like we can root for the character and play the game whilst enjoying fantastic dialogue, set pieces and acting worthy of a hollywood block buster are a blight on the industry and that its all SONYS FAULT!!!!!!!
It's something I personally attribute to Sony due to their success with such titles and their incessant focus on Hollywood gaming, ie. flashy, bold and highly polished games at the expense of depth to gameplay, AI, scope, etc.
I get what you saying, you cant polish a turd.
What I disagree with is this is a Sony lead endeavour, the industry has been going this way for a while. You keep mentioning Heavy Rain and Beyond as some sort of example of how Sony is leading this change yet forget that Fahrenheit wasn't a Sony game. Other big games like Bioshock and Call of Duty 4 heavily pushed presentation to the front of their games, story and style was a strong point in those games. Strip Bioshock down and its a basic FPS game with some gimmicky powers.
I would put some blame for the problems with scope, AI and depth of gameplay on Unreal engine as much as anything. All developers making a game on Unreal have the same tool box and set up which make games feel familiar. When developer build their own engines you tend to see a lot more variety in AI and doing different things with gameplay elements.
What I disagree with is this is a Sony lead endeavour, the industry has been going this way for a while. You keep mentioning Heavy Rain and Beyond as some sort of example of how Sony is leading this change yet forget that Fahrenheit wasn't a Sony game. Other big games like Bioshock and Call of Duty 4 heavily pushed presentation to the front of their games, story and style was a strong point in those games. Strip Bioshock down and its a basic FPS game with some gimmicky powers.
I would put some blame for the problems with scope, AI and depth of gameplay on Unreal engine as much as anything. All developers making a game on Unreal have the same tool box and set up which make games feel familiar. When developer build their own engines you tend to see a lot more variety in AI and doing different things with gameplay elements.
Of course I didn't forget Fahrenheit, but remember MS turned Quantic Dream away with Heavy Rain, Sony didn't. It's barely a video game. My earlier examples went back to Cinemaware games on Amiga, I accept that it's been a merging and a focus for some time and I never had an issue with it. I just think it's something that with this past generation in particular Sony have focused on presentation over gameplay, no doubt as a direct result of them feeling the intense need to prove the power of the PS3, they've been successful with it and it's a trend that I feel has rubbed off onto others, ie. Tomb Raider and Halo.
Bioshock had awesome gameplay, I do not think that game was limited in anyway by it's presentation, the Big Daddies had great AI and they were always fun to taken down. There were a lot of different ways to play it too, I believe that's a bad example.
I said in the other thread it's fine if you disagree, I'm not asking you to agree with me. It's my viewpoint based on my own experience with both platforms, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's simply my preference.
Of course I didn't forget Fahrenheit, but remember MS turned Quantic Dream away with Heavy Rain, Sony didn't. It's barely a video game. My earlier examples went back to Cinemaware games on Amiga, I accept that it's been a merging and a focus for some time and I never had an issue with it. I just think it's something that with this past generation in particular Sony have focused on presentation over gameplay, no doubt as a direct result of them feeling the intense need to prove the power of the PS3, they've been successful with it and it's a trend that I feel has rubbed off onto others, ie. Tomb Raider and Halo.
I said in the other thread it's fine if you disagree, I'm not asking you to agree with me. It's my viewpoint based on my own experience with both platforms, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's simply my preference.
What utter rubbish, Sony hasn't tried to push presentation over gameplay at all, if anything they have tried to push the boundaries of what is possible in gaming
Games like uncharted and heavy rain are great examples of how Sony have reached new audiences, the amount of times my sister who can't/doesn't game watched me play uncharted because of the characters, hell i couldn't even play heavy rain when i wanted because she wanted to the story, anything Sony have done this Gen has improved gaming
They haven't held any other companies back and if other companies (square enix for tomb raider and your beloved MS for halo) want to copy/be influenced by Sony rather than trying something new, that is hardly Sony's fault
Bioshock had awesome gameplay, I do not think that game was limited in anyway by it's presentation, the Big Daddies had great AI and they were always fun to taken down. There were a lot of different ways to play it too, I believe that's a bad example.
Bioshock is to the FPS genre what Uncharted is to the TPS genre.
Microsoft turned Heavy Rain down due to its child kidnapping theme, fearing that it might lead to a scandal. Microsoft's decision had nothing to do with an aversion to cinematic games.
Comments
I saw it and Hotbird is right. He's doing a MS 180!
Yeah it is, and I enjoyed it!
This is something I didn't want to get into on this thread but by all means join in on the original discussion. In a nutshell the earlier argument was in reference to the direction of the overall industry, the dumbing down of games such as Tomb Raider and to some extent Halo. It's something I personally attribute to Sony due to their success with such titles and their incessant focus on Hollywood gaming, ie. flashy, bold and highly polished games at the expense of depth to gameplay, AI, scope, etc.
That's not to say I haven't enjoyed my fair share of linear, on-rail titles but it's not relevant to my anticipation of a single title like Ryse, only to those trying to point score from previous arguments, not least for the fact we know so very little about the game at this point.
Uncharted and Ryse are both action adventure games. The underlying game with Uncharted is a decent cover based shooter which happens to be elevated above other games due to its storytelling through cinematic presentation.
I cant really comment on Ryse as its not actually been released yet but from what we have seen I would expect to see a decent hack and slash type affair which has the potential to be elevated above other games through it cinematic storytelling if they can pull that off.
Heavy Rain and Beyond are games which seem to put an emotional storytelling at the root of their game but that started back with Fahrenheit.
What interests me most about Ryse is the combat, the weighty, realistic look to it is what I find intriguing, plus the hope that Crytek throw in a few surprises and introduce some mythology and hopefully a supernatural element.
The storyline is secondary, if it's good and emotionally engaging then I'll no doubt enjoy it more, but if that combat isn't up to much then it will be a disappointment.
My original comments focused on everything from Gran Turismo, God of War 3, Killzone, Uncharted, TLoU, Heavy Rain, Beyond and more. Uncharted was always a good game but I felt it was overrated as the core gameplay wasn't refined compared to rival TPS of the time nor even compared to other elements of the game itself. It was the cinematic presentation and exceptional voice acting that elevated that title to it's high status. Overall as a package it works and comes together really well, Uncharted is really only one single example in the argument that I was making and until we know more about Ryse I don't see how we can draw comparisons.
I have nothing against cinematic presentation, only if it's at the expense of core gameplay.
Or that these wonderful gaming experiences where we feel like we can root for the character and play the game whilst enjoying fantastic dialogue, set pieces and acting worthy of a hollywood block buster are a blight on the industry and that its all SONYS FAULT!!!!!!!
*AHEM* Anti Sony agenda above
I get what you saying, you cant polish a turd.
What I disagree with is this is a Sony lead endeavour, the industry has been going this way for a while. You keep mentioning Heavy Rain and Beyond as some sort of example of how Sony is leading this change yet forget that Fahrenheit wasn't a Sony game. Other big games like Bioshock and Call of Duty 4 heavily pushed presentation to the front of their games, story and style was a strong point in those games. Strip Bioshock down and its a basic FPS game with some gimmicky powers.
I would put some blame for the problems with scope, AI and depth of gameplay on Unreal engine as much as anything. All developers making a game on Unreal have the same tool box and set up which make games feel familiar. When developer build their own engines you tend to see a lot more variety in AI and doing different things with gameplay elements.
Of course I didn't forget Fahrenheit, but remember MS turned Quantic Dream away with Heavy Rain, Sony didn't. It's barely a video game. My earlier examples went back to Cinemaware games on Amiga, I accept that it's been a merging and a focus for some time and I never had an issue with it. I just think it's something that with this past generation in particular Sony have focused on presentation over gameplay, no doubt as a direct result of them feeling the intense need to prove the power of the PS3, they've been successful with it and it's a trend that I feel has rubbed off onto others, ie. Tomb Raider and Halo.
Bioshock had awesome gameplay, I do not think that game was limited in anyway by it's presentation, the Big Daddies had great AI and they were always fun to taken down. There were a lot of different ways to play it too, I believe that's a bad example.
I said in the other thread it's fine if you disagree, I'm not asking you to agree with me. It's my viewpoint based on my own experience with both platforms, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's simply my preference.
What utter rubbish, Sony hasn't tried to push presentation over gameplay at all, if anything they have tried to push the boundaries of what is possible in gaming
Games like uncharted and heavy rain are great examples of how Sony have reached new audiences, the amount of times my sister who can't/doesn't game watched me play uncharted because of the characters, hell i couldn't even play heavy rain when i wanted because she wanted to the story, anything Sony have done this Gen has improved gaming
They haven't held any other companies back and if other companies (square enix for tomb raider and your beloved MS for halo) want to copy/be influenced by Sony rather than trying something new, that is hardly Sony's fault
Bioshock is to the FPS genre what Uncharted is to the TPS genre.