That's three times the national unemployment rate so where would those businesses be if they couldn't fill the balance of 4 the million vacancies should those foreign born workers not be here?
How many unemployed builders, electricians and other tradesmen do you know? Regardless of whether we are in our out of the EU we would still need to import workers as we just don't have enough qualified workers for the UK building boom.
If you are running a construction company and bidding for a big contract then you are going to want experienced people to work for you not those who have been dragged in off the dole queue.
IDS ........in terms of the Referendum he needs to explain how leaving the EU will really improve the issues he discusses.
If we leave the EU the new trade treaty we sign will look very familiar to the one we have now.... free trade with Europe, will require free movement of workers as now. That is the reality.
That's the weakness of the OUT campaign, casting blame on various woes on the EU - which may or not be justified - but not offering any certainty that leaving would solve them or definitive solutions..... just more jam tomorrow.
I said at the start of all this that OUT will need rise above whining England supporters when England get knocked of a tournament and blame everything on filthy, diving foreigners coming over here and ruining our players.
How many unemployed builders, electricians and other tradesmen do you know?
None and that's coming from a family of builders and a social circle with a very high percentage of people in such trades.
The majority are far from living on easy street and some live a very hand to mouth, work when needs must type of lifestyle but to be honest I'm not sure what the point of your question is what with my anecdotal answer not necessarily being representative
I'm not the one who spouted off while pretending to know the facts.
So rather than blaming foreign workers
Where did I blame foreign workers?
Also bear in mind that 12% of the total work force did not come from the EU.
So what?
So, since less than half the workforce was from abroad, does this really suggest a need for all that worker importation, or does it show that we just need to fix a few things to make it viable for people here? And how does the construction industry expect to have enough trained people available if it doesn't train enough people?
And when wages go up, prices for goods go up. Do you think that is what everyone wants?
It is of course much better for the low paid to keep wages lower and then top up their earnings with tax credits and benefits so they can get by with the government borrowing the money to do so or as some call it corporate welfare.
And when wages go up, prices for goods go up. Do you think that is what everyone wants?
Why not, If it also protects and controls infrastructure and social cohesion. No doubt you're also coming from a mind-set where we should increase the NMW regardless of labour supply- the double whammy
My fear is that the EU is the only thing holding back our current leaders.
If we exit then they will go to town on workers rights, they've already pushed it as far as they can.
I'm not a massive fan of the EU in general but I also don't like the prospect of this government making decisions about employee rights unchecked.
Why not, If it also protects and controls infrastructure and social cohesion. No doubt you're also coming from a mind-set where we should increase the NMW regardless of labour supply- the double whammy
So why are cheap goods so popular?
When you go out shopping, do you 'Buy British'? Do you get quote for work and ask how much they pay their staff so you can choose the one that pays the highest?
I expect (know) the answer, so all this faux outrage about wages just doesn't wash.
Oh dear.... IDS claimed that workers underbid British workers. That is impossible. I added the fact that there were extensive UKBA and police checks to take away the usual argument that companies employ foreign workers for less than NMW, before it could even be used.
Really not that hard to understand.
I accept IDS's argument to a certain degree and it's one of the negatives of membership.
Eastern European workers can work for minimum pay, they can crash out the hours over a period of a few years, they accept the discomfort of low cost living conditions as they know it's temporary and then when they've saved a bundle they can go home and buy a property or start a business.
I've great admiration for this but for low skilled British workers there would never be light at the end of the tunnel.
They'd have to continue to tolerate poor working and living conditions for longer and probably still not be able to afford property and if they can, they'll have to continue crashing out the hours to pay the mortgage. If the expense of children is factored in - forget it.
For them, a life on benefits and a council house might be the only reasonable option.
When you go out shopping, do you 'Buy British'? Do you get quote for work and ask how much they pay their staff so you can choose the one that pays the highest?
I expect (know) the answer, so all this faux outrage about wages just doesn't wash.
Because everyones wages are driven down by an over supply of cheap and willing foreign labour.
Because everyones wages are driven down by an over supply of cheap and willing foreign labour.
So are you suggesting we drive prices back up within the uk, meanwhile China, USA, EU, etc will still have access to much larger labour forces, and we will compete with them.
I have no problem as long as we acknowledge that removing free movement of the workforce will mean that price for uk services and goods will go up, but not those from other nations.
So are you suggesting we drive prices back up within the uk, meanwhile China, USA, EU, etc will still have access to much larger labour forces, and we will compete with them.
I have no problem as long as we acknowledge that removing free movement of the workforce will mean that price for uk services and goods will go up, but not those from other nations.
Yep, it'll eventually lead to a higher standard of living for all.
You're suggesting we turn the UK into an intransigent workers camp and bring in a never ending supply of cheap labour that drives wages down, pays minimum tax, claims tax credits, strains the national infrastucture, damages social cohesion but improves multi-nationals profits
My fear is that the EU is the only thing holding back our current leaders.
If we exit then they will go to town on workers rights, they've already pushed it as far as they can.
I'm not a massive fan of the EU in general but I also don't like the prospect of this government making decisions about employee rights unchecked.
A very good pont. A Tory party liberated from all controls would crush the life out of ordinary people. They have tried to do that already. Do not believe their weasel words.
Comments
and you still expect companies to pay an over saturated labour market more?
Interesting.
Now I know you are joking
How many unemployed builders, electricians and other tradesmen do you know? Regardless of whether we are in our out of the EU we would still need to import workers as we just don't have enough qualified workers for the UK building boom.
If you are running a construction company and bidding for a big contract then you are going to want experienced people to work for you not those who have been dragged in off the dole queue.
No. Are you suggesting it would be a good idea to restrict the workforce?
If we leave the EU the new trade treaty we sign will look very familiar to the one we have now.... free trade with Europe, will require free movement of workers as now. That is the reality.
That's the weakness of the OUT campaign, casting blame on various woes on the EU - which may or not be justified - but not offering any certainty that leaving would solve them or definitive solutions..... just more jam tomorrow.
I said at the start of all this that OUT will need rise above whining England supporters when England get knocked of a tournament and blame everything on filthy, diving foreigners coming over here and ruining our players.
Still waiting.
No, supply and demand - wages are forced up because said labour and skill is scarcer
None and that's coming from a family of builders and a social circle with a very high percentage of people in such trades.
The majority are far from living on easy street and some live a very hand to mouth, work when needs must type of lifestyle but to be honest I'm not sure what the point of your question is what with my anecdotal answer not necessarily being representative
Where did I blame foreign workers?
So what?
So, since less than half the workforce was from abroad, does this really suggest a need for all that worker importation, or does it show that we just need to fix a few things to make it viable for people here? And how does the construction industry expect to have enough trained people available if it doesn't train enough people?
And when wages go up, prices for goods go up. Do you think that is what everyone wants?
Excactly, mass imigration drives wages down for bigger profits.
But now the national minimum wage is going to rise sharply that will no longer be a problem.
It is of course much better for the low paid to keep wages lower and then top up their earnings with tax credits and benefits so they can get by with the government borrowing the money to do so or as some call it corporate welfare.
Rather than making flippant and empty comments why don't you explain how you believe individual foreign workers were able to undercut British workers.
Obviously you can't but that is the same every time you try to win an argument by making ridiculous claims.
Why not, If it also protects and controls infrastructure and social cohesion. No doubt you're also coming from a mind-set where we should increase the NMW regardless of labour supply- the double whammy
If we exit then they will go to town on workers rights, they've already pushed it as far as they can.
I'm not a massive fan of the EU in general but I also don't like the prospect of this government making decisions about employee rights unchecked.
Profit levels of companies within the EU are not particularly high, so I think it's a little more complex than that.
So why are cheap goods so popular?
When you go out shopping, do you 'Buy British'? Do you get quote for work and ask how much they pay their staff so you can choose the one that pays the highest?
I expect (know) the answer, so all this faux outrage about wages just doesn't wash.
I accept IDS's argument to a certain degree and it's one of the negatives of membership.
Eastern European workers can work for minimum pay, they can crash out the hours over a period of a few years, they accept the discomfort of low cost living conditions as they know it's temporary and then when they've saved a bundle they can go home and buy a property or start a business.
I've great admiration for this but for low skilled British workers there would never be light at the end of the tunnel.
They'd have to continue to tolerate poor working and living conditions for longer and probably still not be able to afford property and if they can, they'll have to continue crashing out the hours to pay the mortgage. If the expense of children is factored in - forget it.
For them, a life on benefits and a council house might be the only reasonable option.
So why has no one bothered to cut non-EU immigration which is far higher than EU immigration?
Because everyones wages are driven down by an over supply of cheap and willing foreign labour.
Because they're not particularly fussed where cheap labour comes from?
So are you suggesting we drive prices back up within the uk, meanwhile China, USA, EU, etc will still have access to much larger labour forces, and we will compete with them.
I have no problem as long as we acknowledge that removing free movement of the workforce will mean that price for uk services and goods will go up, but not those from other nations.
Rubbish. How does the UK being in the upper third of the wage league then go together with being a country with high immigration numbers?
Yep, it'll eventually lead to a higher standard of living for all.
You're suggesting we turn the UK into an intransigent workers camp and bring in a never ending supply of cheap labour that drives wages down, pays minimum tax, claims tax credits, strains the national infrastucture, damages social cohesion but improves multi-nationals profits
A very good pont. A Tory party liberated from all controls would crush the life out of ordinary people. They have tried to do that already. Do not believe their weasel words.