What I cannot understand is why alcoholism is called a "disease" and apparently an incurable one at that. I have attended support groups for families of alcoholics and the term disease is used frequently. Does this only apply to alcoholics or do other addictions get classed as a disease as well?
Are nicotine addicts smoking 20 cigarettes a day who find it so hard to stop also suffering a disease? (Nicotine is more addictive than all of the hard drugs and alcohol) Are heroin users? People who are addicted to gambling? I could go on. None of these addictions seem to gain much sympathy in comparison to that shown to Gazza and his drinking problem.
To say he doesn't have a choice is ludicrous, of course he does.
This is what Al-Anon and other support groups are for questions like yours about alcoholism ,
What I cannot understand is why alcoholism is called a "disease" and apparently an incurable one at that. I have attended support groups for families of alcoholics and the term disease is used frequently. Does this only apply to alcoholics or do other addictions get classed as a disease as well?
Are nicotine addicts smoking 20 cigarettes a day who find it so hard to stop also suffering a disease? (Nicotine is more addictive than all of the hard drugs and alcohol) Are heroin users? People who are addicted to gambling? I could go on. None of these addictions seem to gain much sympathy in comparison to that shown to Gazza and his drinking problem.
To say he doesn't have a choice is ludicrous, of course he does.
The disease model is a very useful one for many, but not all, addicts. If you can think of what is going on with you as a disease that you can treat, rather than something that is profoundly and utterly your own fault, it is the first step towards controlling it. It can be very similar, actually, in mental illness situations. To be able to say "I'm not mad, I'm sick" is just the most enormous relief. You're only sick, and so you go see the doctor and do what is needed to get well. With addiction, you simply (ha!) have to accept that the substance you're addicted to will feed the disease you have and kill you. It's not that you are a bad person, it's just that you got a thing that is like cancer. Having the strength to DO that, now, that's what is really hard and that's where things like the 12 steps come in. So if you can accept that you have a disease AND you also find it easy to believe in a higher power, you're (theoretically) sorted.
However there are addicts - and Gazza might be one of them for all I know - for whom this model does not work well because alcoholism and other drug addictions are really, ultimately, about controlling how you feel. And some addictive types are very determined that they and they alone can and should control how they feel. Some people like that can and do get sober by sheer force of will BUT they insist on doing it with no "crutches" - like the disease model, the higher power etc - and that, I believe, is very, very difficult to maintain when the chips are down.
I don't know a lot about Gazza but I've always had the impression that he's a man who is not the brightest, and who was really good at doing one thing that he can't do any more. I fear he's just never ever been able to find something else to do and that's why he drinks the way he drinks.
The disease model is a very useful one for many, but not all, addicts. If you can think of what is going on with you as a disease that you can treat, rather than something that is profoundly and utterly your own fault, it is the first step towards controlling it. It can be very similar, actually, in mental illness situations. To be able to say "I'm not mad, I'm sick" is just the most enormous relief. You're only sick, and so you go see the doctor and do what is needed to get well. With addiction, you simply (ha!) have to accept that the substance you're addicted to will feed the disease you have and kill you. It's not that you are a bad person, it's just that you got a thing that is like cancer. Having the strength to DO that, now, that's what is really hard and that's where things like the 12 steps come in. So if you can accept that you have a disease AND you also find it easy to believe in a higher power, you're (theoretically) sorted.
However there are addicts - and Gazza might be one of them for all I know - for whom this model does not work well because alcoholism and other drug addictions are really, ultimately, about controlling how you feel. And some addictive types are very determined that they and they alone can and should control how they feel. Some people like that can and do get sober by sheer force of will BUT they insist on doing it with no "crutches" - like the disease model, the higher power etc - and that, I believe, is very, very difficult to maintain when the chips are down.
I don't know a lot about Gazza but I've always had the impression that he's a man who is not the brightest, and who was really good at doing one thing that he can't do any more. I fear he's just never ever been able to find something else to do and that's why he drinks the way he drinks.
Suzy cat I love your post,I think I will copy it and frame it and take it to my AA meetings as it's a lovely way of describing addiction and how we talk about it as a cunning and baffling disease thank you! that's helped me today .
Edit I didn't mean lovely as to put down addiction I hope you know what I meant it helped me reading it that's all 👍
Another thing I was thinking of actually re Gazza is that the image of someone like Gazza is only an "awful warning" to some people, because most alcoholics don't look or live like that. Most people with drink problems would look at Gazza and say "well I'm not as bad as him so obviously I don't have a drink problem".
I know many many people who would be termed functional alcoholics, who hold down jobs, run businesses, hold personal relationships together, and are otherwise pretty healthy. Some of those people have had very clear fallout in their lives from their use of alcohol, and they would probably actually have better lives overall if they quit the booze. None of them look even remotely as messed up as Gazza does.
Another thing I was thinking of actually re Gazza is that the image of someone like Gazza is only an "awful warning" to some people, because most alcoholics don't look or live like that. Most people with drink problems would look at Gazza and say "well I'm not as bad as him so obviously I don't have a drink problem".
I know many many people who would be termed functional alcoholics, who hold down jobs, run businesses, hold personal relationships together, and are otherwise pretty healthy. Some of those people have had very clear fallout in their lives from their use of alcohol, and they would probably actually have better lives overall if they quit the booze. None of them look even remotely as messed up as Gazza does.
Many people think of the word "alcoholic" as sat on a park bench looking like Gazza and it's not although my alcoholism took me to Gazzas state and a lot of others in AA were too,
But being an alcoholic is when you are not drinking because it's pleasure it's gone further than that ,that choice is somehow taken away and you drink because your body needs it,
I know a lot of people who are functioning alcoholics that can go to work but need to drink as soon as they get home as if not a craving starts and the body and mind will trick them in to thinking that it's ok have one,
A saying from Robin Williams -"You're standing at a precipice, and you look down. There's a voice -- and it's a little quiet voice -- that goes 'jump.' It's the same voice, the same voice [that says], 'just one.' There's a voice that goes, 'jump,' and the idea of 'just one.'" - it's soo true -the mind tricks an alcoholic just like the depressed mind tricks you too,I believe they are both to do with the mind and both often come hand in hand-with me anyway
Gazza has both mental illness and alcoholism I don't know how I did it so many years ago I know I hit rock bottom and the thing is I don't think Gazza has as he has so many enablers and it's sad to say but maybe his death will be his rock bottom,:(
But you're right there's a lot of people out there and think because they are not like Gazza they are ok -they should not let it kid them,alcoholism is a progressive disease -every time you give up and go back to it you get steadily worse I could go right into why you do but I don't want to bore people after all you only have to look at Gazza to see!
Thank you Suzy Cat you talk a lot of sense on the subject xx
I was going to say that I have met quite a few alcoholics through my line of work and my father's best friend is an alcoholic, but hardly any of them looked even remotely as bad as Gazza. My dad's friend is actually 15 years older than Gazza and has been an alcoholic since his youth, but looks absolutely great, has a family, worked as a teacher most of his life and one generally would never be able to guess that he has an alcohol problem. However, when he drinks (even a sip of alcohol) he ends up disappearing for months. Alcoholics come in many different shapes and sizes.
Gazza's decline is a tragedy. He was the most talented English footballer I ever saw.
I was going to say that I have met quite a few alcoholics through my line of work and my father's best friend is an alcoholic, but hardly any of them looked even remotely as bad as Gazza. My dad's friend is actually 15 years older than Gazza and has been an alcoholic since his youth, but looks absolutely great, has a family, worked as a teacher most of his life and one generally would never be able to guess that he has an alcohol problem. However, when he drinks (even a sip of alcohol) he ends up disappearing for months. Alcoholics come in many different shapes and sizes.
Gazza's decline is a tragedy. He was the most talented English footballer I ever saw.
That's the exact problem the BIB Xela,even a sip of alcohol to an alcoholic brings on a craving so powerful ,it might not be that day but guaranteed some time after the mind tricks you so badly an alcoholic has to have another drink then one is never enough it starts a cycle like your dad's friend that takes them to a binge ,like I've said above I could write all the boring science stuff but I don't want to bore!
I know just how you feel, my partner died of cirrhosis of the liver at just 29. By the time he went into hospital he had destroyed 75% of his liver, and he died just six days later.
Although it was 38 years ago, I still remember that awful last evening when I visited him in hospital to be informed by the doctors that he wouldn't survive the night.
Omg Walter that's awful:( so young:o:(
It must have been an awful time
I know it is an illness but there you had Linda Bellingham clinging desperately to life, and Gazza is just throwing his away. I know they are completely unconnected but when someone presses the self-destruct button, it really pees me off. I hope that one day he kicks this destructive habit. He could be a force for good, he is still regarded fondly by a lot of people, he could do a lot for others, particularly disadvantaged children, by getting them into sport and footie.
Gazza is a waste of space and nature will take its course.
How big and clever of you. What's life like over there in your perfect world? The guy has mental health and addiction problems. It's clearly a struggle for him to remain sober for long periods of time. He won't be the first and he isn't the last to struggle with this problem. I think it's pretty disgusting to wish death upon anyone. What's he done to you? Who are you to judge him?
How big and clever of you. What's life like over there in your perfect world? The guy has mental health and addiction problems. It's clearly a struggle for him to remain sober for long periods of time. He won't be the first and he isn't the last to struggle with this problem. I think it's pretty disgusting to wish death upon anyone. What's he done to you? Who are you to judge him?
I've said for a while now that he should be taken to a facility of some description, made safe and comfortable and be allowed to drink himself to death if he so wishes.
At least it would be a more dignified end than being found dead in a ditch somewhere.
There's always hope.Even for Gazza.They should show him the ER 'Time Of Death' episode with Ray Liotta.It might strike a chord in him.It did with me.
For sure he's addicted.But I wonder what drives his demons.Only he knows I guess.I wish him all the best in his battle.
I've said for a while now that he should be taken to a facility of some description, made safe and comfortable and be allowed to drink himself to death if he so wishes.
But that would be suggesting he wants to die. I suspect he doesn't want to die, hence why he's attempted on several occasions to deal with his addiction.
Comments
This is what Al-Anon and other support groups are for questions like yours about alcoholism ,
The disease model is a very useful one for many, but not all, addicts. If you can think of what is going on with you as a disease that you can treat, rather than something that is profoundly and utterly your own fault, it is the first step towards controlling it. It can be very similar, actually, in mental illness situations. To be able to say "I'm not mad, I'm sick" is just the most enormous relief. You're only sick, and so you go see the doctor and do what is needed to get well. With addiction, you simply (ha!) have to accept that the substance you're addicted to will feed the disease you have and kill you. It's not that you are a bad person, it's just that you got a thing that is like cancer. Having the strength to DO that, now, that's what is really hard and that's where things like the 12 steps come in. So if you can accept that you have a disease AND you also find it easy to believe in a higher power, you're (theoretically) sorted.
However there are addicts - and Gazza might be one of them for all I know - for whom this model does not work well because alcoholism and other drug addictions are really, ultimately, about controlling how you feel. And some addictive types are very determined that they and they alone can and should control how they feel. Some people like that can and do get sober by sheer force of will BUT they insist on doing it with no "crutches" - like the disease model, the higher power etc - and that, I believe, is very, very difficult to maintain when the chips are down.
I don't know a lot about Gazza but I've always had the impression that he's a man who is not the brightest, and who was really good at doing one thing that he can't do any more. I fear he's just never ever been able to find something else to do and that's why he drinks the way he drinks.
Suzy cat I love your post,I think I will copy it and frame it and take it to my AA meetings as it's a lovely way of describing addiction and how we talk about it as a cunning and baffling disease thank you! that's helped me today
Edit I didn't mean lovely as to put down addiction I hope you know what I meant it helped me reading it that's all 👍
Another thing I was thinking of actually re Gazza is that the image of someone like Gazza is only an "awful warning" to some people, because most alcoholics don't look or live like that. Most people with drink problems would look at Gazza and say "well I'm not as bad as him so obviously I don't have a drink problem".
I know many many people who would be termed functional alcoholics, who hold down jobs, run businesses, hold personal relationships together, and are otherwise pretty healthy. Some of those people have had very clear fallout in their lives from their use of alcohol, and they would probably actually have better lives overall if they quit the booze. None of them look even remotely as messed up as Gazza does.
Many people think of the word "alcoholic" as sat on a park bench looking like Gazza and it's not although my alcoholism took me to Gazzas state and a lot of others in AA were too,
But being an alcoholic is when you are not drinking because it's pleasure it's gone further than that ,that choice is somehow taken away and you drink because your body needs it,
I know a lot of people who are functioning alcoholics that can go to work but need to drink as soon as they get home as if not a craving starts and the body and mind will trick them in to thinking that it's ok have one,
A saying from Robin Williams -"You're standing at a precipice, and you look down. There's a voice -- and it's a little quiet voice -- that goes 'jump.' It's the same voice, the same voice [that says], 'just one.' There's a voice that goes, 'jump,' and the idea of 'just one.'" - it's soo true -the mind tricks an alcoholic just like the depressed mind tricks you too,I believe they are both to do with the mind and both often come hand in hand-with me anyway
Gazza has both mental illness and alcoholism I don't know how I did it so many years ago I know I hit rock bottom and the thing is I don't think Gazza has as he has so many enablers and it's sad to say but maybe his death will be his rock bottom,:(
But you're right there's a lot of people out there and think because they are not like Gazza they are ok -they should not let it kid them,alcoholism is a progressive disease -every time you give up and go back to it you get steadily worse I could go right into why you do but I don't want to bore people after all you only have to look at Gazza to see!
Thank you Suzy Cat you talk a lot of sense on the subject xx
Gazza's decline is a tragedy. He was the most talented English footballer I ever saw.
That's the exact problem the BIB Xela,even a sip of alcohol to an alcoholic brings on a craving so powerful ,it might not be that day but guaranteed some time after the mind tricks you so badly an alcoholic has to have another drink then one is never enough it starts a cycle like your dad's friend that takes them to a binge ,like I've said above I could write all the boring science stuff but I don't want to bore!
Omg Walter that's awful:( so young:o:(
It must have been an awful time
I read in one of the papers that his spokesperson said it was Botox making his face look swollen.
Oh dear
some people are, im afraid, beyond help.
How big and clever of you. What's life like over there in your perfect world? The guy has mental health and addiction problems. It's clearly a struggle for him to remain sober for long periods of time. He won't be the first and he isn't the last to struggle with this problem. I think it's pretty disgusting to wish death upon anyone. What's he done to you? Who are you to judge him?
I'm past caring tbh.
And who are you to comment on MY opinion?
If you post on a public forum be prepared for people to reply.
And expect people to disagree with misguided opinions...
At least it would be a more dignified end than being found dead in a ditch somewhere.
Indeed.
For sure he's addicted.But I wonder what drives his demons.Only he knows I guess.I wish him all the best in his battle.
But that would be suggesting he wants to die. I suspect he doesn't want to die, hence why he's attempted on several occasions to deal with his addiction.