Oh well, thanks to the couple of people who contributed. It seems that although there are always tons of people wanting to post on threads about religion, that is only true if the thread is an invitation for people to slag off 'religion' in the most fatuous terms. Try to ask for something sensible and interesting and people can't be bothered at all.
TBH I'm guessing it probably doesn't apply to a huge amount of people. It's a much rarer situation than someone just "growing into/out of" a faith. I mean, it's an interesting question, but I can't answer it because it didn't happen to me.
I was a Christian from childhood into my mid-20s. I did question at a point in my early teens but it wasn't until I was older that questions raised real doubts. I don't know why, there was no trigger. I would have been closer to agnostic so carried on with church, read the Bible and other sources looking for answers. I wanted to believe but the more I read the less I believed.
For more than 10 years I would describe myself as atheist. Although i'm a reluctant one. I would love to believe but I can't, don't and won't i'm afraid. I was raised a Christan but it was only when I raised my doubts as an adult that my dad admitted he was an atheist. He always had been but said little on the subject so as not influence or confuse me.
We are faced with a similar dilemma with our kids. Kids are sponges so when their school teaches them the Christan ethos they don't question it. When our eldest made a statement about Jesus or the Bible we would say, yes, that's what Christians believe but go on to explain that not everyone does. We'd use myself, Mr T and my dad as examples of atheists so she'd know atheists weren't sinister deviants deviating from what school were teaching her. We let her make her own mind up. At 9 she declared herself half atheist, half Christian :-D before settling on agnostic.
We have to go along with it for our son. He's only 6 and gets very distressed if anyone doubts God's existence.
Oh well, thanks to the couple of people who contributed. It seems that although there are always tons of people wanting to post on threads about religion, that is only true if the thread is an invitation for people to slag off 'religion' in the most fatuous terms. Try to ask for something sensible and interesting and people can't be bothered at all.
I've most definitely changed the altar at which I worship. In my late teens it was the Kings Head, in the last couple of months my eyes have been opened to the teachings of the Winchester.
...At risk of being beaten to death for starting yet another thread with religion in the title. But this is something I am genuinely interested in.
I am asking about people who have changed their religious status AS ADULTS, ie not just given up a religion they grew up in.
So someone who has actually been a devout adult, but lost that religion, or a confirmed atheist, and acquired a religious belief, or has converted from one religion to another.
Inspired by the unliked post in another thread that people without a religion are more likely to be bad, I am sincerely curious as to whether people have found that gaining or losing a religion has had any impact on their moral code?
To start with my own (not very overwhelming) change: I have moved from being a don't-care-not-interested person to what you might call an active agnostic, attending an agnostic-atheist-friendly church every week. And I would say that it HAS made a change, but a subtle one; I can't sit here and say that 'until I found religion I used to drink/ ****/ steal/ carouse, but now I sit and knit mufflers for orphans', but I just feel a bit more three dimensional in the way I look at life, a bit more spiritually aware, more grateful I guess, and happier, definitely.
So having digested it again, all I can say is that you have not achieved anything in this post. Basically it's just a load of meaningless nonsense. I suggest you try another subject. Possibly something you know about.
Oh well, thanks to the couple of people who contributed. It seems that although there are always tons of people wanting to post on threads about religion, that is only true if the thread is an invitation for people to slag off 'religion' in the most fatuous terms. Try to ask for something sensible and interesting and people can't be bothered at all.
I just don't think you are going to get a representative sample on here. Let's not forget that DS is a populist site devoted largely to trash TV and consequently attracts a certain demographic.
I just don't think you are going to get a representative sample on here. Let's not forget that DS is a populist site devoted largely to trash TV and consequently attracts a certain demographic.
The reason not many have replied is due to the narrow confines of the question.
And insulting other board members does no one any good.
I spend ages on one of my threads, but do not get many replies, mind you that is because it is devoted to empirical science and not total fantasy.
The most popular boards on here are devoted to trash TV. It's a fact, not an insult.
I think that people who are after a serious grown up discussion about religion/spirituality are in the wrong place to be honest. This is only a forum and is about as sensible and philosophical as a Liverpool pub at kicking out time. Its just a bit of a diversion for most folks, and not a place for soul-searching.
Goodness, well I have just seen this thread and felt I might have had something of interest to contribute, then read the horrible post by the OP, which considering the first post was in the middle of the night, its not surprising that it didnt get many answers by the mid afternoon of today...
Anyway, in case anyone else might be interested... I remember assessing some foster carers years ago who were extremely religious, both had been brought up in fairly heavy or strict christian households.
However the father in the family had been reassessing his belief and faith for sometime, maybe a year or 2 before I met them and as his deliberations went on he was finding it really stressful and traumatic that he may not be a believer anymore, it was something he was constantly questioning and wondering about. In other things, he was quite scientific and it seemed he just couldnt put the 2 together. I dont know whether he lost his religion in the end or not.
Brought up Christian - gave it up in my early 20s for many reasons including the conflict with being gay and what the evangelists/fundies said. A few years ago, I had a bit of a spiritual awakening and that has only got stronger. I now realise completely that God is 100% ok about gay people and I go to gay friendly church. I find live a lot more richer as a practising Christian but pretty liberal and don't have to take certain things too seriously. I certainly don't have all the answers.
I do have a lot of admiration for Buddhism to and have gone to meditation evenings there.
Brought up Christian - gave it up in my early 20s for many reasons including the conflict with being gay and what the evangelists/fundies said. A few years ago, I had a bit of a spiritual awakening and that has only got stronger. I now realise completely that God is 100% ok about gay people and I go to gay friendly church. I find live a lot more richer as a practising Christian but pretty liberal and don't have to take certain things too seriously. I certainly don't have all the answers.
I do have a lot of admiration for Buddhism to and have gone to meditation evenings there.
That's something I struggle with. Christians that meditate???? I thought prayer was the answer for them. I'm atheist and meditate and find all my answers in meditation rather than a fantasy in a god. In fact through meditation I have conquered innumerable demons in my life I would boast of them if it was in me.
I normally appreciate your posts wonkey, but in this case you're being particularly arsey and arrogant. Not sure why you've resorted to this.
Yes you started another thread on religion, and yes people will reply in whatever fashion they wish. Surely you have been around long enough now to realise how GD works?
I only posed a question that interested me and asked for it not to be hijacked by people with no interest in the question but only in slagging off 'religion' part 1000.
IWe are faced with a similar dilemma with our kids. Kids are sponges so when their school teaches them the Christan ethos they don't question it. When our eldest made a statement about Jesus or the Bible we would say, yes, that's what Christians believe but go on to explain that not everyone does. We'd use myself, Mr T and my dad as examples of atheists so she'd know atheists weren't sinister deviants deviating from what school were teaching her. We let her make her own mind up. At 9 she declared herself half atheist, half Christian :-D before settling on agnostic.
We have to go along with it for our son. He's only 6 and gets very distressed if anyone doubts God's existence.
Yes, I think it's tricky with children. They are, in my experience, poor at tolerating ambiguity. You understandably don't want to tell him that other kind adults in his life are a bunch of idiots. I like your daughter's solution.
So having digested it again, all I can say is that you have not achieved anything in this post. Basically it's just a load of meaningless nonsense. I suggest you try another subject. Possibly something you know about.
Brought up Christian - gave it up in my early 20s for many reasons including the conflict with being gay and what the evangelists/fundies said. A few years ago, I had a bit of a spiritual awakening and that has only got stronger. I now realise completely that God is 100% ok about gay people and I go to gay friendly church. I find live a lot more richer as a practising Christian but pretty liberal and don't have to take certain things too seriously. I certainly don't have all the answers.
I do have a lot of admiration for Buddhism to and have gone to meditation evenings there.
That's something I struggle with. Christians that meditate???? I thought prayer was the answer for them. I'm atheist and meditate and find all my answers in meditation rather than a fantasy in a god. In fact through meditation I have conquered innumerable demons in my life I would boast of them if it was in me.
Meditation is one form of prayer among many. trouble is some people think that a shopping list for god is the only kind. Monks etc spend many hours meditating each day.
...At risk of being beaten to death for starting yet another thread with religion in the title. But this is something I am genuinely interested in.
I am asking about people who have changed their religious status AS ADULTS, ie not just given up a religion they grew up in.
So someone who has actually been a devout adult, but lost that religion, or a confirmed atheist, and acquired a religious belief, or has converted from one religion to another.
Inspired by the unliked post in another thread that people without a religion are more likely to be bad, I am sincerely curious as to whether people have found that gaining or losing a religion has had any impact on their moral code?
To start with my own (not very overwhelming) change: I have moved from being a don't-care-not-interested person to what you might call an active agnostic, attending an agnostic-atheist-friendly church every week. And I would say that it HAS made a change, but a subtle one; I can't sit here and say that 'until I found religion I used to drink/ ****/ steal/ carouse, but now I sit and knit mufflers for orphans', but I just feel a bit more three dimensional in the way I look at life, a bit more spiritually aware, more grateful I guess, and happier, definitely.
I avoid religious threads on here. They are pretty much a piss take.
But at least your angle is slightly different.
I was brought up as a Roman Catholic. As an adult I could not accept Mariology and many other catholic concepts.
I also had a problem with the Church being revered more than God or Christ as the redeemer.
Moved to the Church of Scotland but that really was sermonettes for Christianettes. .soundbite Christians.
Spent a bit of time with the Free Church of Scotland . Loved that it was bible centred. No music , no idolatry . But ultimately too fundamental.
Will probably go back to the Catholic Church as they have moved forward, rather like myself. Faith is a personal spiritual journey. But 90% between me and god. The trappings are manufactured for many reasons, all man made.
That's something I struggle with. Christians that meditate???? I thought prayer was the answer for them. I'm atheist and meditate and find all my answers in meditation rather than a fantasy in a god. In fact through meditation I have conquered innumerable demons in my life I would boast of them if it was in me.
That's something I struggle with. Christians that meditate???? I thought prayer was the answer for them. I'm atheist and meditate and find all my answers in meditation rather than a fantasy in a god. In fact through meditation I have conquered innumerable demons in my life I would boast of them if it was in me.
It's traditionally referred to as contemplation. That said there is a Worldwide community of Christian meditators http://www.wccm.org/. You tend to recite a Christian mantra wordlessly when doing it. I am aware that certain evangelicals believe meditation to be unholy though but I fundamentally disagree.
Like you, I have found meditation a very powerful practice - for me, I say God reveals himself to me through it.
Meditation is one form of prayer among many. trouble is some people think that a shopping list for god is the only kind. Monks etc spend many hours meditating each day.
Thanks for that but it still doesn't make sense to me. My idea is you pray to god and he answers that prayer. So to me medeitation is a contradiction to a godly person.
We know someone who was Jewish and is now a Christian. OH was Roman Catholic and is now a Methodist, as am I. My sister was a Christian and is now an agnostic.
We know someone who was Jewish and is now a Christian. OH was Roman Catholic and is now a Methodist, as am I. My sister was a Christian and is now an agnostic.
I know of an Irish non-Catholic congregation that has tripled in size over the last few years with disaffected Catholics. I know that the Irish Catholic church has lost members, and wonder how many have moved to a different church and how many have simply abandoned any kind of church at all.
Thanks for that but it still doesn't make sense to me. My idea is you pray to god and he answers that prayer. So to me medeitation is a contradiction to a godly person.
Not really. They're two different things that serve different purposes, so I guess you'd do one or t'other depending what you were trying to achieve at the time.
Thanks for that but it still doesn't make sense to me. My idea is you pray to god and he answers that prayer. So to me medeitation is a contradiction to a godly person.
Not at all. A christian who meditates might pick a bit of the bible as the springboard, the story of the good samaritan for example and apply it to themselves, or maybe just a verse. The point being that they get a deeper understanding of it, and maybe slowly become a better person.
That's something I struggle with. Christians that meditate???? I thought prayer was the answer for them. I'm atheist and meditate and find all my answers in meditation rather than a fantasy in a god. In fact through meditation I have conquered innumerable demons in my life I would boast of them if it was in me.
I don't struggle with others faiths. Mainly because I don't understand them and therefore I don't have any right to make the sweeping judgments you make.
Prayer for me is totally contemplative. It is an examining of the inner person. And that is common to many Christians .
Sorry, I didn't address the query about moral code. No, no my values or moral views were not affected when I moved away from the church. I think my morals have a social and emotional basis rather than spiritual so when the spirituality was removed the values and reasoning remained the same.
As atheists we teach our kids right from wrong without religion. I think that's preferable regardless of belief - to develop moral codes independent of religion. I don't know, I just imagine it's better to equip children with the skills to morally reason and rationalise themselves rather than refer to the church for guidance. I'm not saying religious belief will necessarily impede moral understanding or that it can't support or enhance someone's moral code, but, for me, I want my kids to have 'it' in them, if that makes any sense.
, I just imagine it's better to equip children with the skills to morally reason and rationalise themselves rather than refer to the church for guidance. .
Yes, that sounds very fair.
It's very odd btw when devout parents tell their children to pray for guidance. I knew someone whose daughter was desperate to go to the same high school as her friends, but who wanted her to go to a church school. They told her to spend an hour in prayer, and let God make the decision. She came back and said that God had told her to go to the same high school as her friends. They were perplexed, but to their credit, they did allow her to go there.
Comments
TBH I'm guessing it probably doesn't apply to a huge amount of people. It's a much rarer situation than someone just "growing into/out of" a faith. I mean, it's an interesting question, but I can't answer it because it didn't happen to me.
For more than 10 years I would describe myself as atheist. Although i'm a reluctant one. I would love to believe but I can't, don't and won't i'm afraid. I was raised a Christan but it was only when I raised my doubts as an adult that my dad admitted he was an atheist. He always had been but said little on the subject so as not influence or confuse me.
We are faced with a similar dilemma with our kids. Kids are sponges so when their school teaches them the Christan ethos they don't question it. When our eldest made a statement about Jesus or the Bible we would say, yes, that's what Christians believe but go on to explain that not everyone does. We'd use myself, Mr T and my dad as examples of atheists so she'd know atheists weren't sinister deviants deviating from what school were teaching her. We let her make her own mind up. At 9 she declared herself half atheist, half Christian :-D before settling on agnostic.
We have to go along with it for our son. He's only 6 and gets very distressed if anyone doubts God's existence.
Sounds about right
So having digested it again, all I can say is that you have not achieved anything in this post. Basically it's just a load of meaningless nonsense. I suggest you try another subject. Possibly something you know about.
I just don't think you are going to get a representative sample on here. Let's not forget that DS is a populist site devoted largely to trash TV and consequently attracts a certain demographic.
The reason not many have replied is due to the narrow confines of the question.
And insulting other board members does no one any good.
I spend ages on one of my threads, but do not get many replies, mind you that is because it is devoted to empirical science and not total fantasy.
Huh? Where's the insult?
The most popular boards on here are devoted to trash TV. It's a fact, not an insult.
I think that people who are after a serious grown up discussion about religion/spirituality are in the wrong place to be honest. This is only a forum and is about as sensible and philosophical as a Liverpool pub at kicking out time. Its just a bit of a diversion for most folks, and not a place for soul-searching.
Anyway, in case anyone else might be interested... I remember assessing some foster carers years ago who were extremely religious, both had been brought up in fairly heavy or strict christian households.
However the father in the family had been reassessing his belief and faith for sometime, maybe a year or 2 before I met them and as his deliberations went on he was finding it really stressful and traumatic that he may not be a believer anymore, it was something he was constantly questioning and wondering about. In other things, he was quite scientific and it seemed he just couldnt put the 2 together. I dont know whether he lost his religion in the end or not.
I do have a lot of admiration for Buddhism to and have gone to meditation evenings there.
That's something I struggle with. Christians that meditate???? I thought prayer was the answer for them. I'm atheist and meditate and find all my answers in meditation rather than a fantasy in a god. In fact through meditation I have conquered innumerable demons in my life I would boast of them if it was in me.
Yes, I think it's tricky with children. They are, in my experience, poor at tolerating ambiguity. You understandably don't want to tell him that other kind adults in his life are a bunch of idiots. I like your daughter's solution.
And thanks for that.
Meditation is one form of prayer among many. trouble is some people think that a shopping list for god is the only kind. Monks etc spend many hours meditating each day.
I avoid religious threads on here. They are pretty much a piss take.
But at least your angle is slightly different.
I was brought up as a Roman Catholic. As an adult I could not accept Mariology and many other catholic concepts.
I also had a problem with the Church being revered more than God or Christ as the redeemer.
Moved to the Church of Scotland but that really was sermonettes for Christianettes. .soundbite Christians.
Spent a bit of time with the Free Church of Scotland . Loved that it was bible centred. No music , no idolatry . But ultimately too fundamental.
Will probably go back to the Catholic Church as they have moved forward, rather like myself. Faith is a personal spiritual journey. But 90% between me and god. The trappings are manufactured for many reasons, all man made.
Yes, silence can be a big part of it too.
It's traditionally referred to as contemplation. That said there is a Worldwide community of Christian meditators http://www.wccm.org/. You tend to recite a Christian mantra wordlessly when doing it. I am aware that certain evangelicals believe meditation to be unholy though but I fundamentally disagree.
Like you, I have found meditation a very powerful practice - for me, I say God reveals himself to me through it.
Thanks for that but it still doesn't make sense to me. My idea is you pray to god and he answers that prayer.
I know of an Irish non-Catholic congregation that has tripled in size over the last few years with disaffected Catholics. I know that the Irish Catholic church has lost members, and wonder how many have moved to a different church and how many have simply abandoned any kind of church at all.
Not really. They're two different things that serve different purposes, so I guess you'd do one or t'other depending what you were trying to achieve at the time.
Not at all. A christian who meditates might pick a bit of the bible as the springboard, the story of the good samaritan for example and apply it to themselves, or maybe just a verse. The point being that they get a deeper understanding of it, and maybe slowly become a better person.
I don't struggle with others faiths. Mainly because I don't understand them and therefore I don't have any right to make the sweeping judgments you make.
Prayer for me is totally contemplative. It is an examining of the inner person. And that is common to many Christians .
As atheists we teach our kids right from wrong without religion. I think that's preferable regardless of belief - to develop moral codes independent of religion. I don't know, I just imagine it's better to equip children with the skills to morally reason and rationalise themselves rather than refer to the church for guidance. I'm not saying religious belief will necessarily impede moral understanding or that it can't support or enhance someone's moral code, but, for me, I want my kids to have 'it' in them, if that makes any sense.
Yes, that sounds very fair.
It's very odd btw when devout parents tell their children to pray for guidance. I knew someone whose daughter was desperate to go to the same high school as her friends, but who wanted her to go to a church school. They told her to spend an hour in prayer, and let God make the decision. She came back and said that God had told her to go to the same high school as her friends. They were perplexed, but to their credit, they did allow her to go there.