Laptops.Advise please....

malcommalcom Posts: 2,261
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I have an ageing desktop computer......Would like to replace with space saving laptop.......However I am uncertain about their computing power compared to desktops......

My computer demands are I think middle of the road.Not into games but do some photo work with Elements.......Working with RAW and JPG files.......

The cheaper Laptops I have looked at have shared memory graphics cards and may not be suitable for photo work with elemnts......

I am interested in the toshiba range up to £650 or so but they have shared graphics too be it with more memory on board.......Laptops down to £350 are I think a no no.......


Is a laptop with a dedicated graphics card a must for my needs. Fellow users out there can you recommend a minimum specification for my needs as outlined......Thanks........
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  • John259John259 Posts: 28,327
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    For editing static photographs integrated graphics will be ok.

    3D games and simulations need a dedicated graphics board. Sorry, I'm not sure if one is needed for editing videos.
  • StigStig Posts: 12,446
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    Briefly, any modern notebook PC will be faster than an old desktop.

    Toshiba is a good brand. Find one with a screen size that fits your budget.
  • malcommalcom Posts: 2,261
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    Thank's......The reason for my uncertanty comes from a spec sheet of a Toshiba computer costing £370.......States shared graphics and also states that it is not poweful enough for digital photography.......That's got me concerned as to what range of Toshibas are suitable..Asked in store no help there mainly bluff and blank looks.......They don't even know what elements is.........

    The model in question not suitable so they say for digital work is the Toshiba sat C650-166.....

    I am not in to video manipulation..just still images.......

    P.S. Researching I also note that laptops don't seem to have stereo audio in options.......Unlike my existing desktop which has a sound card with line in........Retailer tells me no laptops provide such an option........Not all that important to me but would be a useful option at times......

    On my existing comp I transfered some of my old record collection (Vynyll) to CD...Still have some not yet done......Is there any way of using a USB port for music transfer to laptop computer.....
  • StigStig Posts: 12,446
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    malcom wrote: »
    Thank's......The reason for my uncertanty comes from a spec sheet of a Toshiba computer costing £370.......States shared graphics and also states that it is not poweful enough for digital photography.......That's got me concerned as to what range of Toshibas are suitable..Asked in store no help there mainly bluff and blank looks.......They don't even know what elements is.........

    The model in question not suitable so they say for digital work is the Toshiba sat C650-166.....

    I am not in to video manipulation..just still images.......
    That was PC World right? :rolleyes:

    If you can do photo editing on your current PC, you can do it on a newer PC with a higher spec.

    You also have to consider if the version of Elements you are using will run on Window 7, as the new notebook is almost certainly going to come with it installed.
  • malcommalcom Posts: 2,261
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    Stig wrote: »
    That was PC World right? :rolleyes:

    If you can do photo editing on your current PC, you can do it on a newer PC with a higher spec.

    You also have to consider if the version of Elements you are using will run on Window 7, as the new notebook is almost certainly going to come with it installed.

    Same as.Currys come what Blacks, currys PC world super store. Elements about 4-5 years old now.......Running on windows XP. Adequate for my needs will this run on new laptops and new windows version from microsoft!!!!!!!
  • David (2)David (2) Posts: 20,632
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    malcom wrote: »
    I have an ageing desktop computer......Would like to replace with space saving laptop.......However I am uncertain about their computing power compared to desktops......

    My computer demands are I think middle of the road.Not into games but do some photo work with Elements.......Working with RAW and JPG files.......

    The cheaper Laptops I have looked at have shared memory graphics cards and may not be suitable for photo work with elemnts......

    I am interested in the toshiba range up to £650 or so but they have shared graphics too be it with more memory on board.......Laptops down to £350 are I think a no no.......


    Is a laptop with a dedicated graphics card a must for my needs. Fellow users out there can you recommend a minimum specification for my needs as outlined......Thanks........

    My Toshiba is approx 6 months old now, and features the i5 cpu, 4Gb Ram (max 8Gb), 320Gb hard drive, 16in screen, 512Mb graphics card (not shared), with full multimedia support over HDMI output (eg, it takes the audio as well as vision to the tv).
    at the time it was £600 (with only Win7 *64bit* for software).

    Some weeks ago when Xmas shopping I noted the laptop situation in major shops and the i5/i7 stuff had gone up in price, with those with proper graphics being even more exclusive than before.
  • FaustFaust Posts: 8,985
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    malcom wrote: »
    I have an ageing desktop computer......Would like to replace with space saving laptop.......However I am uncertain about their computing power compared to desktops......

    My computer demands are I think middle of the road.Not into games but do some photo work with Elements.......Working with RAW and JPG files.......

    The cheaper Laptops I have looked at have shared memory graphics cards and may not be suitable for photo work with elemnts......

    I am interested in the toshiba range up to £650 or so but they have shared graphics too be it with more memory on board.......Laptops down to £350 are I think a no no.......


    Is a laptop with a dedicated graphics card a must for my needs. Fellow users out there can you recommend a minimum specification for my needs as outlined......Thanks........

    Forget all the hype, Laptops are not and never will be a suitable replacement for even a mediocre Desktop PC - end of, simple as that and don't let anyone tell you any different.
  • evil cevil c Posts: 7,833
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    Hi Malcolm,

    I was in the same position as you, with similar usage requirements. I had a 9yr old Athlon T'bird 850MHz based PC with 500MB SDRAM and shared graphics.

    I spent just over 7 months getting up to date with the latest laptops and now I have a great refurbished i7 laptop which cost me £900 with a 12 month guarantee from PC World online.
    I found 'What Laptop' a great help. They seem to give an honest opinion. You can read it for free in WH Smith and just buy the odd one. TechRadar is a good online test site as well. You need to check out the Intel Core i3, i5 and i7 laptops. Don't bother with any older processors. Probably i5 or i7 is best.

    Visit PC World and play with the laptops on display. See what the keyboards feel like. Decide how big a screen. Are you going to use it as a desktop replacement or are you going to carry it around? Definitely go for Windows 7. It's much better than XP and miles better than Vista. You can run quite a lot of XP progs in Home Edition (I do).

    Have a look at the various connections a modern laptop has. I would recommend a dedicated graphics card rather than shared. Remember that you need to think about the future as well, e.g. 64-bit rather than 32-bit. You need at least 6GB of DDR3 RAM to make the best use of 64-bit, but get at least 4GB for Windows 7. Do you want a backlit keyboard or the ability to switch off the touchpad? Do you want a full sized keyboard?

    Are you going to watch DVDs/Blu-ray on it, if so get a high res HD screen. Is anyone else in your family going to be using it, they might need something you don't.

    If you get a decent sound card you can connect the laptop to a stereo system or a surround sound system and use a wireless mouse as a remote control. It'll sound fantastic.

    Don't pay much attention to user's reviews. Everybody's needs are different and you'll get confused.

    Don't automatically decide in advance to buy a Toshiba. Acer make good laptops and so do HP. Try and use some laptops that your friends have. Some laptops have a decent sounding tech spec but the components don't work well together.

    My old PC took 1min 4 secs before I could start to use XP. This Acer 8942G laptop takes 37-39 seconds before I can use Windows 7.

    You can use the line out in your stereo system and modern software to copy your LPs directly to your laptop via USB. Bear in mind that there will soon be USB 3 instead of 2. You can access that speed now if your new laptop has an ExpressCard slot.
  • pocatellopocatello Posts: 8,813
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    You pay more, and you risk more.

    Adding extra storage or anything else is more of a pain. Solutions always exist, assuming you want to pay more. For extra storage you can always go usb 3 or esata but it costs more. Good laptops with high color gamut displays do exist, but many cheap models come with garbage displays, led display is no garrantee of quality, most are junk regardless. If you are doing photo work this matters. Also the size of the display is small, and unless you can stand this, you shouldn't get a laptop, a small laptop with a dock + large display is easily possible these days but as I said, you will pay for such a luxury. It all depends how much you actually need portability and small size, many desktops are rather small these days. So getting a laptop if you really don't need it shouldn't be your first option. Maintenance or replacement of parts is just a lot more trouble on a laptop. Just the simple matter of the display height is wrong as a matter of ergonomics...neve rmind the cramped keyboard, this is what you have to live with on the run, but at home? To get around this people buy docks with regular desktop keyboard/mouse and monitors, and that solves it at the cost of cash. Really nice docks have extra harddrives and optical and the rest. Quite nice. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/accessories/dock-port-replicators xbit-labs and anandtech have reviews that carefully measure display quality.
  • c4rvc4rv Posts: 29,538
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    Faust wrote: »
    Forget all the hype, Laptops are not and never will be a suitable replacement for even a mediocre Desktop PC - end of, simple as that and don't let anyone tell you any different.

    Laptops can definately be a replacement for what OP is wanting to do and don't let anyone tell you any different.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    FWIW, the main cost in laptops tends to be in overall build-quality rather than technical specifications.

    What I mean is, you might find that a £300 Acer laptop is just as competant as a £600 Sony laptop. The difference will be stuff like that the Sony has more solid construction and metal screen hinges while the Acer won't be so robust.

    Thing is, if you're carrying a laptop around with you, for school or for work, then you need to consider the build-quality of a laptop at least as much as the technical spec's.

    If, however, you're buying a laptop for home-use then it's not going to have a hard life at all and, in that case, the build-quality isn't such an issue.

    That being the case, don't be afraid of "cheap" laptops simply because of their low price.

    *EDIT*
    Faust wrote: »
    Forget all the hype, Laptops are not and never will be a suitable replacement for even a mediocre Desktop PC - end of, simple as that and don't let anyone tell you any different.

    Cobblers.

    I bought my XPS M1730 specifically AS a desktop replacement for use during extended periods away from home and it's been faultless.
    The screen is superb, it has a full-sized keyboard and even the speakers produce decent sound.

    Sure, not every laptop can be used to replace a desktop PC but some sure as hell can, for EVERY application.

    I always had a yearning for one of those HP HDX Dragon laptops with the 20" screen but, alas, the tech specs were never good enough to allow me to play modern games on it.
  • pocatellopocatello Posts: 8,813
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    Yes but for desktop duty a desktop would have been better. 24" screens are cheap now, and they are 1080p at the very least.
    Cheap laptop screens on the other hand have taken the 720p is "hd" route, they are utterly garbage at the low/mid end these days, it is one area where laptops have not progressed in years, they have actually regressed a bit to save on costs. Buy a high end laptop that offers 1080p screen, and it will be a weenie 17" screen, and the laptop will be so huge that it will be barely portable at that point. The screen height on a laptop is not optimal, and so unless you get a stand for the laptop or prop it up, it is an inferior solution, and even if you do it is quite certainly inferior to the 24" you could get if you spent the laptop money on a nicer display instead, you'd almost most certainly have money left over even after splurging on a nice screen vs buying a nicer laptop.

    With a laptop you pay more, you get less, there is no way around it, this is the sacrifice for portabiliity. Laptops are built around the limitations of size and battery power and heat dissapation, they cannot ever match a desktop. That dell xps is 10 pounds minimum of dead weight, it is barely portable. The system you could buy for the equivalent price would be primo, so to get the laptop when you do not need portability is just odd.

    And yea build quality matters when carrying around a laptop, nice ones are solid, you feel them, the case is rigid, the hinges smooth, it feels precision engineered. The cheap ones..hollow and flexible, horrible.
  • John259John259 Posts: 28,327
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    A standard inexpensive laptop will easily do what the OP requires. The main questions are the size of screen (which also affects the size of the case and therefore the size of the keyboard) and build quality.

    As well as the makes already listed, it would probably be worth exploring what Asus, Dell and Samsung offer.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,304
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    He's quite lucky, almost any model will do. Maybe he shouldn't consider the the very cheapest full laptops since they are built down to a price and will have some corner cut that he didn't realise. Even some manufacturers that still do line-in won't necessarily think to trumpet it so he'll have to check product photos for the third 3.5mm jack.
  • John259John259 Posts: 28,327
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    lynxmale wrote: »
    he'll have to check product photos for the third 3.5mm jack.
    And/or download the manuals from the manufacturers' web sites, maybe. Always the best way to check the real spec.
  • malcommalcom Posts: 2,261
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    Many thank's guys for your helpful replies.More the merrier.......

    Thus far I have not found any lap top in any price range that has line in.......searching download manuals where possible.No luck..........

    Poster evil c that suggested that external sound in can be done via the USB port on a lap top.........What add on accessory and software would I need........Guys at PC world curries ets although suggesting the same could not advise as to what I would need let alone where to obtain........

    P.S. Can a sound card be added to a laptop computer as an expansion.......Either internally or via USB externally .......

    Athough these days don't know where a sound card can be purchased from......Evesham micros where I had my desktop from have gone out of business.......Out of touch as to if you can still get computers and expansion cards from built to order manufacturers.....
  • rwouldrwould Posts: 5,260
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    Faust wrote: »
    Forget all the hype, Laptops are not and never will be a suitable replacement for even a mediocre Desktop PC - end of, simple as that and don't let anyone tell you any different.
    Ignore the quoted comment, this person clearly does not know what they are talking about.

    The XPS M1730 is quite portable despite the size and weight of it, but with it's poor battery life it is not designed for the same form of usage as other laptops as it is more like a portable desktop. However the M11X is a fantastic bit of kit and if you want a portable powerful laptop is for me the machine of choice. But not really what the OP needs.

    If you can I would wait until February before buying anything. Historically it is the cheapest time to buy a computer as it is approaching the end of the tax year and so offers are good to get people looking to buy one before the end of tax year.

    I would also take a look at Dell and their refurbished laptops. If you choose carefully you can pick up a bargain. But did just have a look for you and nothing stood out!

    As for extras I would avoid getting any. You can generally pick up any software you need cheaper than any of the companies offer it to you as part of the bundle.

    And avoid getting a netbook. They do not meet your needs at all.

    Also, if you don't mind going second hand, there are some great options available to you.
  • cats_fivecats_five Posts: 1,182
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    The main drawback with using laptops for photo work is that the screens are not very accurate, and not capable of being accurate. However this is a problem with low-end screens on desktops as well.
  • rwouldrwould Posts: 5,260
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    cats_five wrote: »
    The main drawback with using laptops for photo work is that the screens are not very accurate, and not capable of being accurate. However this is a problem with low-end screens on desktops as well.
    There is nothing to stop you connecting it to your TV (unless you want to watch your TV at the same time!). It gives you the convenience of using it wherever you want and you still have the ability to do work on a monitor that you would use with a desktop.

    Short of high end graphical usage (so generally games playing) the only reasons to use a desktop are money, and ease of repair/upgrades.
  • mred2000mred2000 Posts: 10,050
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    malcom wrote: »
    P.S. Can a sound card be added to a laptop computer as an expansion.......Either internally or via USB externally ...

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Creative-Sound-Blaster-Live-24-bit-External-Sound-Card-/170582196685?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_SoundCards&hash=item27b77dc1cd

    Has line in, also... I picked one up a few years back and it certainly does the job. I got mine from Creative's Ebay store at the time.

    Also, not sure if anyone has made clear, but when it comes to photo manipulation work the main things utilised are memory and processor power so integrated graphics on a laptop will be fine. If you were chucking 3D polygons around (either gaming or in a 3D modelling/animation package) then that's where a dedicated graphics card would be useful
    rwould wrote: »
    Short of high end graphical usage (so generally games playing) ...

    ... or 3D architectural/animation work but even then there are laptops that have this covered but, yeah, as you say, they're pricey! I know, I got what's classed as a mobile 3D workstation for work a few years back :D
  • John259John259 Posts: 28,327
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    rwould wrote: »
    Short of high end graphical usage (so generally games playing) the only reasons to use a desktop are money, and ease of repair/upgrades.
    Agreed, but can I add 3D simulations (eg flight simulators and train simulators) to the list of programs which need a powerful graphics processor?

    Laptops can have powerful GPU's but heat dissipation in such a small space becomes a very serious problem.
  • David (2)David (2) Posts: 20,632
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    Faust wrote: »
    Forget all the hype, Laptops are not and never will be a suitable replacement for even a mediocre Desktop PC - end of, simple as that and don't let anyone tell you any different.

    so thats why nearly everyone has a laptop instead of a desktop now.

    If you still have have a really old deskop like a Pentium or Celeron, are you really sayiing thats better than a modern laptop?

    I have seen a few compact desktops, and these nearly always feature shared graphics, and often slower processors too.

    I think the only areas where a full size desktop rates better than a laptop is in extra expansion options (eg, PCI slots, and extra drive bays), mouse (trackpads are not very good on laptops, but you can always plug in a mouse), and for some uses the screen size - some people need really big screens so a desktop is the only way to go.
  • John259John259 Posts: 28,327
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    David (2) wrote: »
    I think the only areas where a full size desktop rates better than a laptop is in extra expansion options (eg, PCI slots, and extra drive bays), mouse (trackpads are not very good on laptops, but you can always plug in a mouse), and for some uses the screen size - some people need really big screens so a desktop is the only way to go.
    And high end 3D applications such as games and sims.

    Agreed, that statement by Faust was total nonsense.
  • David (2)David (2) Posts: 20,632
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    John259 wrote: »
    And high end 3D applications such as games and sims.

    Agreed, that statement by Faust was total nonsense.


    yea - for the very serious stuff like that you need a fast graphics card (say 2Gb VRam), and I would want a massive screen too, say min 24inch.

    horses for courses.
    I use PhotoShop on my laptop, but i always have a mouse plugged in for that. Hopeless with just a trackpad.

    But most people dont use their PCs for this kind of stuff, which is why a laptop will usually be fine. Like one of the other posts said, I too picked one of the new i cpus even though it costs twice as much (or more). I have seen plenty of entry level 32bit, 2Gb Core2Due laptops from £250 in the paper, which is tempting, just dont expect the life cycle to be very long after you buy one. I think nearly all of these old models will be long gone by this time next year.
  • FaustFaust Posts: 8,985
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    rwould wrote: »
    Ignore the quoted comment, this person clearly does not know what they are talking about.

    The XPS M1730 is quite portable despite the size and weight of it, but with it's poor battery life it is not designed for the same form of usage as other laptops as it is more like a portable desktop. However the M11X is a fantastic bit of kit and if you want a portable powerful laptop is for me the machine of choice. But not really what the OP needs.

    If you can I would wait until February before buying anything. Historically it is the cheapest time to buy a computer as it is approaching the end of the tax year and so offers are good to get people looking to buy one before the end of tax year.

    I would also take a look at Dell and their refurbished laptops. If you choose carefully you can pick up a bargain. But did just have a look for you and nothing stood out!

    As for extras I would avoid getting any. You can generally pick up any software you need cheaper than any of the companies offer it to you as part of the bundle.

    And avoid getting a netbook. They do not meet your needs at all.

    Also, if you don't mind going second hand, there are some great options available to you.

    Probably forgotten more about computers than you'll ever know. I can overdrive any laptop and slow it to a crawl in no time something you won't do with a Desktop. Stick to what you know my friend - which isn't computers.
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