Cecil the Lion murdered by a USA dentist

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  • Pisces CloudPisces Cloud Posts: 30,239
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    It's not Top Trumps you know. People find different things more emotive than others, it's human nature. That's just like saying why moan about FGM when over 3 million children die of hunger each year?

    Indeed, so it's quite odd that they come into this thread about a lion to spout off about other things being more important.
  • Pumping IronPumping Iron Posts: 29,891
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    Indeed, so it's quite odd that they come into this thread about a lion to spout off about other things being more important.

    It is strange yes. I shared some articles on FB against the badger cull a while back, it doesn't mean I don't give a crap about other things going on in the world!
  • LucyDTrymLucyDTrym Posts: 3,021
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    You are 100% wrong in that hugely wild assumption .:(

    The reason the Cecil story is running is because he was a reasonably famous animal .
    If someone posted a story about (purely for example) Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt inflicting the barbaric 'tradition' of female mutilation on one of their children I guarantee the media coverage would be ten times the coverage of Cecil . The moderators on here would be going nuts trying to police the board in the fall out , for the simple reason that the victim was/is someone in the public domain, someone we've seen in pictures and can therefore feel a connection .

    At the moment lions being illegally butchered is the hot topic and it has brought loads of support for Born Free and other conservation people . That is only a good thing .
    I support conservation , am against big game hunting , and absolutely abhor the very idea of the barbarism of female mutilation .
    See ? It really is possible to multi think like that .

    Where was he famous? Come on no one heard of CECIL before some poxy horrible little dentist killed him and two of my friends in South Africa certainly never heard of him prior to his death (strangely enough its not even newsworthy where they live).

    but i agree with the rest of what you say.
  • duffsdadduffsdad Posts: 11,143
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    LucyDTrym wrote: »
    Where was he famous? Come on no one heard of CECIL before some poxy horrible little dentist killed him and two of my friends in South Africa certainly never heard of him prior to his death (strangely enough its not even newsworthy where they live).

    but i agree with the rest of what you say.

    Of course people had heard of him. There are lots of tourist videos of him on the net. He was a selling point for the park.

    Just because 2 of your mates dont know about him doesnt mean anything...
  • Pumping IronPumping Iron Posts: 29,891
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    LucyDTrym wrote: »
    Where was he famous? Come on no one heard of CECIL before some poxy horrible little dentist killed him and two of my friends in South Africa certainly never heard of him prior to his death (strangely enough its not even newsworthy where they live).

    but i agree with the rest of what you say.

    If you check SA's main news sites, there are stories related to Cecil there.
  • HeatherbellHeatherbell Posts: 9,940
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    LucyDTrym wrote: »
    Where was he famous? Come on no one heard of CECIL before some poxy horrible little dentist killed him and two of my friends in South Africa certainly never heard of him prior to his death (strangely enough its not even newsworthy where they live).

    but i agree with the rest of what you say.

    The bib is just not true . Anyone interested in conservation in any way will very probably have heard of Cecil .
    As for your two friends , well like most things we will note that which appeals to us and read that which interests us . If conservation doesn't interest them then yep, most likely they are unaware of Cecil and his ilk .
    But yes, I can imagine it wouldn't be newsworthy in parts of Africa . Mankind tends to ignore that which paints us in a bad light, and licensing rich idiots to butcher animals that are no threat to them personally , just for shits n giggles, is rather shameful and most def not to be trumpeted around sullying their perception of themselves .
  • LucyDTrymLucyDTrym Posts: 3,021
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    If you check SA's main news sites, there are stories related to Cecil there.

    http://www.herald.co.zw/reflections-on-our-cecil-the-zimbabwean-lion/

    Read the real story from the real Zembabweans, not the tourists.

    Like this guy never heard of him nor had his friends.
  • LucyDTrymLucyDTrym Posts: 3,021
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    The bib is just not true . Anyone interested in conservation in any way will very probably have heard of Cecil .
    As for your two friends , well like most things we will note that which appeals to us and read that which interests us . If conservation doesn't interest them then yep, most likely they are unaware of Cecil and his ilk .
    But yes, I can imagine it wouldn't be newsworthy in parts of Africa . Mankind tends to ignore that which paints us in a bad light, and licensing rich idiots to butcher animals that are no threat to them personally , just for shits n giggles, is rather shameful and most def not to be trumpeted around sullying their perception of themselves .

    Its like my mate said the only people making money out of Cecil now are the rich Africans who run these shoots in the first place. Its all been blown out of proportion so someone is getting rich out of it.

    Gullible comes to mind all these people fall into it. I just posted this link, read it, its very enlightening...my friend pointed me to it.

    http://www.herald.co.zw/reflections-on-our-cecil-the-zimbabwean-lion/

    No one cares in the villages or the real world of Africa. This is bringing in huge money, big bucks.......
  • LucyDTrymLucyDTrym Posts: 3,021
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    The bib is just not true . Anyone interested in conservation in any way will very probably have heard of Cecil .
    As for your two friends , well like most things we will note that which appeals to us and read that which interests us . If conservation doesn't interest them then yep, most likely they are unaware of Cecil and his ilk .

    But yes, I can imagine it wouldn't be newsworthy in parts of Africa . Mankind tends to ignore that which paints us in a bad light, and licensing rich idiots to butcher animals that are no threat to them personally , just for shits n giggles, is rather shameful and most def not to be trumpeted around sullying their perception of themselves .

    Its like my mate said the only people making money out of Cecil now are the rich Africans who run these shoots in the first place. Its all been blown out of proportion so someone is getting rich out of it.

    Gullible comes to mind all these people fall into it. I just posted this link, read it, its very enlightening...my friend pointed me to it.

    http://www.herald.co.zw/reflections-on-our-cecil-the-zimbabwean-lion/

    No one cares in the villages or the real world of Africa. This is bringing in huge money, big bucks.......but sadly to the wrong people.
  • HeatherbellHeatherbell Posts: 9,940
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    LucyDTrym wrote: »
    Its like my mate said the only people making money out of Cecil now are the rich Africans who run these shoots in the first place. Its all been blown out of proportion so someone is getting rich out of it.

    Gullible comes to mind all these people fall into it. I just posted this link, read it, its very enlightening...my friend pointed me to it.

    http://www.herald.co.zw/reflections-on-our-cecil-the-zimbabwean-lion/

    No one cares in the villages or the real world of Africa. This is bringing in huge money, big bucks.......but sadly to the wrong people.
    The bit you yourself highlighted in bold ? Wrong again .:)
    This whole debacle has brought worldwide attention to conservation issues and big game hunting issues and the conservation societies are gaining financially from people now donating or wanting to help raise funds and awareness. Twitter is choc full of celebs and zelebs tweeting about this and bringing the reality to yoof who actually never gave animal conservation a second thought before other than something like "Leave the foxes alone" on their own doorstep .
    The only gullible people are those choosing not to see this as the tragedy it really is .
    Cecil himself drew a lot of attention before his death and his legacy is now to draw even more attention to the ugly face of people killing majestic animals just so they can boast how cool they are and what a thrill it was .
    As one American comedian said "Hey guys , just use Viagra for the same effect and leave the animals alone" .
  • duffsdadduffsdad Posts: 11,143
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    Difficult to argue against this.

    Except there already is quite a movement fighting FGM?
  • GroutyGrouty Posts: 33,947
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    Jericho lives! :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,510
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    It's absolute nonsense to suggest anglers aren't catching and killing fish but only practicing catch and release all up and down the country and throughout the world. Even hooking them and throwing them back can mean a slow and painful death. Look at the commercial fishing industries and fish discards as well.

    Commercial fishing and angling are also worlds apart...educate yourself
  • Jim NashJim Nash Posts: 1,085
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  • Blackjack DavyBlackjack Davy Posts: 1,166
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    LucyDTrym wrote: »
    Jeez what about all the African kids dying everyday, the poor children being mutilated by female genital mutilation, about 140 million to be exact.

    All this bloody hoo ha over a lion being killed. Yeh it was horrible, and totally unnecessary but really give me a break lions have been killed for trophies now for years 1,000 of them some even farmed for hunting.

    This is getting out of hand now.

    kids are more important in this life. Why dont people get active and start a facebook page to stop this female genital mutilation instead.

    24 lions in this programme have already been killed anyway. No one complained about that. Give a LION A NAME, and everyone is up in arms over it.

    I think he world has gone crackers to be honest. So shoot me I dont care to be honest, but really we need to wake up and smell the coffee.

    The lion was hunted, everyone is up in arms over it, the guy who shot him, has threats to his family and children, he has probably lost his business. I think surely all that should be enough now.

    Yes all this anthropomorphising over an animal they never heard of before and where its a non-story for the locals who neither know nor care, who are more concerned about rampant inflation, poverty and corruption than a broo-haha in some rich western country. Utterly pathetic.
  • FIN-MANFIN-MAN Posts: 1,598
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    I can not believe the security guard told her to cover up and would not let her breastfeed in public. And then forcefully took the baby away without the mothers consent. That is rape or the very least sexual assault. I AM OUTRAGED I TELL YOU, OUTRAGED!!!

    What...? This isn't the appropriate outrage thread? Well let me just say that I must be outraged about whatever topic this outage thread is about. OUTRAGED!!!
  • Jim NashJim Nash Posts: 1,085
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    FIN-MAN wrote: »
    I can not believe the security guard told her to cover up and would not let her breastfeed in public.


    Memo not to post after a night out on the lash.

    I'm sure you can find a thread about women and breasts if you look hard enough. It's just not this one.
  • yellowlabbieyellowlabbie Posts: 59,081
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  • wampa1wampa1 Posts: 2,997
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    Jim Nash wrote: »
    Memo not to post after a night out on the lash.

    I'm sure you can find a thread about women and breasts if you look hard enough. It's just not this one.
    *facepalm*
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 495
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    Article below from Associated Press - Sat 1 Aug 2015 - by the man who had been studying Cecil


    Man who studied Cecil the lion for 9 years talks impact

    JOHANNESBURG (AP) — When Cecil the lion's carcass was finally found after he was lured out of a Zimbabwe wildlife reserve to be killed by an American hunter, it was a headless, skinless skeleton the vultures had been picking at for about a week.

    Conservationists decided the most natural thing was to leave the bones where they were for hyenas to finish off, said Brent Stapelkamp, a lion researcher and part of a team that had tracked and studied Cecil for nine years.

    Stapelkamp darted Cecil and put his last GPS collar on in October. He was probably the last person to get up close before Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer used a bow and a gun to kill the now-famous lion with the bushy black mane, its head and skin eventually cut off as trophies. Stapelkamp had first alerted authorities that something might be wrong after Cecil's GPS collar stopped sending a signal.

    The killing of the big cat in early July has unleashed global outrage, sending Palmer into hiding back home in suburban Minneapolis, leading to the arrest of the local hunter he employed, and prompting Zimbabwe's environment minister to say the southern African country would seek Palmer's extradition to face charges

    Stapelkamp shares the anger, not just because of the demise of Cecil. Also because, he said, it's not the first time a lion has been killed illegally around Hwange National Park in northwestern Zimbabwe, a reserve known for its rich wildlife. About a dozen lions in the region were killed illegally in recent years, Stapelkamp said, and no one was caught.

    "I think this was just the final straw," Stapelkamp told The Associated Press in a phone interview from the Hwange reserve. "Everyone locally just thought, no ways, we're not letting anyone get away with this anymore."

    Cecil had an intriguing story, making him a celebrity in Hwange. He arrived as a kind of lion refugee, alone and wandering after being displaced from another territory. Cecil befriended another male lion, Jericho, and together they grew and watched over two prides, one with three lionesses and seven cubs and another with three lionesses.

    The satellite collar on Jericho has been sending normal signals, indicating the lion is alive and moving around, Stapelkamp said.

    But Cecil's killing will have an impact on the area, explained Stapelkamp, a field researcher for an Oxford University study on lions.

    Jericho may not be able to hold their territory alone and could be chased away by rival lions. Unprotected, the lionesses and cubs would then be under threat and also move away or be killed. Safari operators who invested millions of dollars in the area would lose one of their biggest attractions for tourists.

    "They're burning fire breaks. They're grading roads. They're pumping water," Stapelkamp said. "They're spending a lot of money in the management of lions and then someone just draws it across the railway lines having not paid a penny in its management and shoots it and runs away with its skin. It's unacceptable."

    Zimbabwe's National Parks and Wildlife Authority said Saturday it has suspended the hunting of lions, leopards and elephants outside of Hwange National Park, and that bow and arrow hunts have also been suspended unless they are approved by the authority's director.

    The authority also said it is investigating the killing of another lion in April that may have been illegal.

    Stapelkamp, unsure of the details of Cecil's killing, described the usual tactics of hunters to draw an animal onto private land and out of the park where it is protected. The two areas are separated by a railway line. Hunters shoot a zebra or giraffe and hang it on a tree; the main bait. They then drag the intestines of that animal, "something that really smells," Stapelkamp said, up and down the park boundary behind a vehicle. Sometimes they'll even play the sounds of a dying buffalo over a loudspeaker to attract a lion.

    The lion "comes across that scent trail and it leads him straight to this bait," Stapelkamp said. "It rushes in for a free meal and they're waiting ... and they kill him like that."

    Even on private land, this hunt was still illegal, Stapelkamp said, because no hunting quotas for lions were issued in the region this year. Legal hunts do happen, he said, but only after authorities consult with ecologists and decide that it won't adversely affect the area.

    This didn't happen with Cecil, Stapelkamp said, and he doesn't believe Palmer's story that he trusted his professional guide to ensure a legal hunt.

    "He's a well-educated man, he's got a lot of resources," Stapelkamp said. "You could do your homework. Due diligence. You would know that you're hunting in a controversial area. You've got a GPS you could have in your pocket and you have a look at the map, and you say, 'listen, friend, I think we're in the wrong area.' There's no excuse."

    Palmer came "with the intention of getting the biggest lion that he could and getting out. And he got caught," Stapelkamp said.
  • Harry RedknappHarry Redknapp Posts: 4,422
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    Its not as if protests, fundraising, outrage and campaigns over violation of human rights, starvation of children, poverty have not and do not receive attention - they do! I just don't see why you can't care about people and the preservation of wildlife simultaneously.
  • Louise32Louise32 Posts: 6,784
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    Surprise, surprise, the hunter who helped the Dentist murder Cecil is an arrogant piece of faeces.

    Says he didn't do anything wrong- think most of the worlds population will disagree with you on that one.

    Throw him in prison and throw the key away, money grabbing piece of worthless, murdering scum.
  • idlewildeidlewilde Posts: 8,698
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    Louise32 wrote: »
    Surprise, surprise, the hunter who helped the Dentist murder Cecil is an arrogant piece of faeces.

    Says he didn't do anything wrong- think most of the worlds population will disagree with you on that one.

    Throw him in prison and throw the key away, money grabbing piece of worthless, murdering scum.

    Animals can't be murdered, the term applies only to people.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    idlewilde wrote: »
    Animals can't be murdered, the term applies only to people.

    This is true. :(
  • dee123dee123 Posts: 46,201
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    idlewilde wrote: »
    Animals can't be murdered, the term applies only to people.

    *rolls eyes*
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