When my wife's sister-in-law (her brothers wife not my sister) researched family trees she had to ask my father-in-law "Was your father married before"?
When she received the quite assured answer of "No" she went away and tried again before eventually having to break the news that he had indeed been married and had left a wife and a young child before marrying again.
At the start of the programme when Kim said she wanted to know what happened to him I couldn't help but think "Are you sure? You may find he had a happy life once he walked out which won't do you any favours".
If it is possible, this is one story that can be visited again showing the two families meet and further exploration of the story............ or if Kim writes her biography, one worth reading.
But I'm sure it was mentioned that his second wife knew nothing at all about his first family. In fact they said he refused to talk about his life before. So such a meeting wouldn't be able to shed any further light on his motivations.
The only person who knew why he did what he did was George. He didn't tell anyone and he can no longer say.
So we have all the facts that exist and anything else is just speculation.
Somehow I find myself more shocked by the behaviour of his own family towards his deserted wife... as pointed out by another poster. If George found himself trapped in a loveless marriage, having met the woman of his dreams and unable to divorce, without condoning his actions you can understand his predicament. By remarrying he had committed an illegal action. If he'd come out to his previous family he would have ended up in jail. You can see some reasons for his actions - which remain despicable. But I cannot understand why his mother didn't give any support - emotional at least if not financial - to her own grand daughters and daughter in law.
The answer to that can only really come from the the MiL and George's wife. There could easily have been some massive falling out when George went missing, none of which any of the children would have known about and hence the rift - but pure speculation on my part, obviously.
I also got the impression that Bella's first daughter was either born, or on the way, when they married - there was quite a lot left unsaid, but inferred, during the talk with the lovely granny lady ('cup of tea?' )
It was strange to think that Bella could quite easily have still been alive now
Somehow I find myself more shocked by the behaviour of his own family towards his deserted wife... as pointed out by another poster. If George found himself trapped in a loveless marriage, having met the woman of his dreams and unable to divorce, without condoning his actions you can understand his predicament. By remarrying he had committed an illegal action. If he'd come out to his previous family he would have ended up in jail. You can see some reasons for his actions - which remain despicable. But I cannot understand why his mother didn't give any support - emotional at least if not financial - to her own grand daughters and daughter in law.
I think perhaps you are being a bit too harsh on them. When Kim's mum and Aunts were disscussing the family wedding dress. One of the aunts commented that they wouldnt have known how to ask about the dress.
Which I thought was telling.
It isnt always easy to ask for help from relatives you barley know. We dont know what kind of relationship Kim's Grandmother had with Geroge Baugh mum, perhaps they never got on (not unusual for inlaws to not be fond of one another) and pride prevented her asking for help and they drifted out of each others lifes. It wouldnt be the first time it had happend.
Sadly neither Kim's Granny nor great granny are hear to tell their side of things.
There is also no need to damn the whole family for the mum's behaviour. The sister she met and spoke to were only children at the time about ages with Kim's mum, so that is very harsh.
It was an interesting coincidence what one of her aunt's colleagues lived next door to George's sister and was still in touch.
A random stroke of luck.
If it hadn't been for that, I wonder if there'd have been a programme.
Did I misunderstand that?? The woman worked with Kim's aunt, and was also in touch with George's sister?? Surely then they could have made contact many years ago?? Obviously, the sisters didnt know about his other life either, so it may not have made a huge difference, but I just found that a bit staged...
Very good programme tho, I liked the fact it was all about one relative, and that there were still living people affected by his actions.
A bit out of the norm for WDYTYA, but it was great episode. It felt like such a personal and emotional story. I wonder why Kim or other members didn't try and trace him before? Although it must have been very hard for the 3 sisters. I'm not sure what's worst - not knowing or getting closure but finding out that he was 'happier' away from them.
I had tears in my eyes when the youngest sister saw her father the first time. I can't imagine what it must be like having spentyour life not even knowing what your dad looked like and then suddenly be given a photo, and then to see him looking so content with another family and one that he took with him to Australia.
George was obviously very selfish, but he was facinating as well. He must have been very restless, gusty and clever to stowaway on a cargo ship. And why didn't he like being photographed?! So many questions! I can't help wanting to know more about him, even though I think his actions and the impact it had on his families were appalling.
What a wonderful episode, absolutely fascinating and heart wrenching, and I was deeply impressed with Kim Catrall.
My hubby hates Sex in the City and groaned when he saw her on the TV. But he was stunned at how eloquent and normal and truly genuine a person she was. Doesn't she look incredible, in her 50s and no botox, wow I hope I age so well!!
Her whole family were so lovely, I do feel sorry for the second family in Australia.
It must have been such a shock to them, to learn after all these years that your father/grandfather who you loved, had done such a terrible thing and never let on. It must be deeply upsetting for them, as it changes their whole history too. Wonderful show!
A bit out of the norm for WDYTYA, but it was great episode. It felt like such a personal and emotional story. I wonder why Kim or other members didn't try and trace him before? Although it must have been very hard for the 3 sisters. I'm not sure what's worst - not knowing or getting closure but finding out that he was 'happier' away from them.
I had tears in my eyes when the youngest sister saw her father the first time. I can't imagine what it must be like having spentyour life not even knowing what your dad looked like and then suddenly be given a photo, and then to see him looking so content with another family and one that he took with him to Australia.
George was obviously very selfish, but he was facinating as well. He must have been very restless, gusty and clever to stowaway on a cargo ship. And why didn't he like being photographed?! So many questions! I can't help wanting to know more about him, even though I think his actions and the impact it had on his families were appalling.
I'd like to know more about the psychology behind George's behaviour too. Why the need to keep running? I understood his need to run away as a child if his own father was an alcoholic and an angry man - his sisters confirmed he was forever running away and being brought back by the police. That need to run away obviously stayed with him through adulthood - obviously doing a runner from his first family, even his own family parents, sisters never saw him again. Initially stowing away trying to get to New York, got sent back but then ran anyway and then dragged his new family over to Australia on a whim and out of the blue whether his wife liked it or not. Like someone else said, if his wife hadn't agreed he'd have gone anyway and left that family too.
There was just no sense of responsibility and obviously rather than dealing with any issues he would run and hide.
As for the earlier post for criticising others for judging George not knowing both sides of the story - whatever George's story was, absolutely nothing can justify doing a runner and leaving your own children to suffer in desperate poverty. That is bad enough but to then start another family and lead the life of riley while providing well for the new family and still denying the existence and support of the first family is hurtful and disgraceful - he was working in the Navy and obviously paid reasonably well and could and should have supported the first family. Besides that, we are discussing what we were told during the programme, we don't know why George did what he did we can only discuss what we know, but like I said, his reasons are irrelevant, his actions were unforgiveable.
Did I understand it right that George Baugh was having an affair with Isobella in Manchester while he was still in Liverpool and living with Kim's grandmother? I'm sure I heard he and Isobella had their first child within the year of him leaving before the two went to Durham and got married a little later? I may have just assumed that, but I took that for the reason for him 'running' although he obviously had a nasty habit of doing that anyway.
I wondered this so looked it up. George and Isabella married in Q3 (July August or September) 1939 and Irene (the eldest daughter) was born Q3 1940.
I wondered this so looked it up. George and Isabella married in Q3 (July August or September) 1939 and Irene (the eldest daughter) was born Q3 1940.
Oh right thanks, glad I wasn't the only one that wondered that though. Irene was born in Manchester though wasn't she? They must have just married in C. Durham as that's where Bella's family were but were still living in Manchester? They were married very quickly though.
It was an interesting coincidence what one of her aunt's colleagues lived next door to George's sister and was still in touch.
A random stroke of luck.
If it hadn't been for that, I wonder if there'd have been a programme.
There would've been, because it only takes a few minutes on the internet to find the second marriage, and then a few more to discover the subsequent children.
There would've been, because it only takes a few minutes on the internet to find the second marriage, and then a few more to discover the subsequent children.
Where would you find the marriage details on the net and the children? I've been attempting some genealogy on my father's side and found nothing, surname Smith though) and also my maternal great grandmother and found a bit from the Irish Census of 1901 and 1911.
I thoroughly enjoyed this show, it was actually only the second of the series that i have watched all the way though...the story gripped me from the beginning and it kind of brought some old similar memories forward so i felt very intrigued to hear the story as i felt i could understand in a way!
I have always liked Kim Cattrell, i have met her 2 times and she is so warm and gracious and completely different to the kind of upper class A Lister you would expect her to be(if that makes sense)! I love how she has never forgotten where she comes from and regularly visits her home town liverpool and relatives!
Where would you find the marriage details on the net and the children? I've been attempting some genealogy on my father's side and found nothing, surname Smith though) and also my maternal great grandmother and found a bit from the Irish Census of 1901 and 1911.
ancestry.co.uk has the complete Birth, Marriage and Death Index - a searchable database of every registered event since certificates were introduced in 1837. Much of it can be searched for free, though you need to be a paying member to search a lot of the twentieth century entries.
An entry contains the name, location registered and a code. You use these to order the certificates from the General Register Office, at a cost.
ancestry.co.uk has the complete Birth, Marriage and Death Index - a searchable database of every registered event since certificates were introduced in 1837. Much of it can be searched for free, though you need to be a paying member to search a lot of the twentieth century entries.
An entry contains the name, location registered and a code. You use these to order the certificates from the General Register Office, at a cost.
Thanks for that. Ancestry was one I have been looking at but as you say you have to be a paying member. Although they do have a 14 day free trial on at the moment but the only catch is you have to sign up fully for ongoing payments I think so you'd have to make sure you cancel it before 14 days is up I think but whether that goes smoothly I don't know.
So you don't get to see any details anyway though? Just a location and code and then have to pay to order the certificate anyway for the details? Hmmm...might give it a miss then, it's always going to be touch and go whether I'd have the right Smith anyway.
Thanks for that. Ancestry was one I have been looking at but as you say you have to be a paying member. Although they do have a 14 day free trial on at the moment but the only catch is you have to sign up fully for ongoing payments I think so you'd have to make sure you cancel it before 14 days is up I think but whether that goes smoothly I don't know.
So you don't get to see any details anyway though? Just a location and code and then have to pay to order the certificate anyway for the details? Hmmm...might give it a miss then, it's always going to be touch and go whether I'd have the right Smith anyway.
There is a free site that you can use to search for Birth/Marriage/Death certificates. The address is: http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Don't go paying for doing that but you will still have to pay for getting the certificates. Often it is cheaper to get the certificates directly from the local registar then from the GRO.
This reminds me a bit of my family tree only I am descended from the "second" marriage. My great grandad left his first wife and child without divorcing and 'married' a woman 30 years younger than him and had five more kids with her - one of whom was my grandma. He was French and faught in the first world war which apparently sent him "a bit funny".
It was an interesting coincidence what one of her aunt's colleagues lived next door to George's sister and was still in touch.
A random stroke of luck.
If it hadn't been for that, I wonder if there'd have been a programme.
It wasnt actually how they found out, thats just how the show said they did. There was actually a notice placed in the Liverpool Echo asking about info on the Wedding dress story and it was answered by a member of the family.
There is a free site that you can use to search for Birth/Marriage/Death certificates. The address is: http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Don't go paying for doing that but you will still have to pay for getting the certificates. Often it is cheaper to get the certificates directly from the local registar then from the GRO.
I thought it odd to have to pay to see an index listing. Surely if those are public records we should be entitled to see them for free. I understand and okay with paying for a copy of the certificate itself but thanks for the tip on getting them cheaper.
Having seen that Heir Hunters programme a couple of times, I find it frustrating that a private business run for profit is easily able to access all sorts of private family history information much of which seems to be held in their own offices, yet we can't seem to access diddlysquat.
Off to search those websites. Thanks again.
(edit: just realised that's one I came across earlier, tried again anyway and still no joy, will have to use Ancestry.co.uk I think.)
Comments
When she received the quite assured answer of "No" she went away and tried again before eventually having to break the news that he had indeed been married and had left a wife and a young child before marrying again.
At the start of the programme when Kim said she wanted to know what happened to him I couldn't help but think "Are you sure? You may find he had a happy life once he walked out which won't do you any favours".
The only person who knew why he did what he did was George. He didn't tell anyone and he can no longer say.
So we have all the facts that exist and anything else is just speculation.
It was an interesting coincidence what one of her aunt's colleagues lived next door to George's sister and was still in touch.
A random stroke of luck.
If it hadn't been for that, I wonder if there'd have been a programme.
The answer to that can only really come from the the MiL and George's wife. There could easily have been some massive falling out when George went missing, none of which any of the children would have known about and hence the rift - but pure speculation on my part, obviously.
I also got the impression that Bella's first daughter was either born, or on the way, when they married - there was quite a lot left unsaid, but inferred, during the talk with the lovely granny lady ('cup of tea?'
It was strange to think that Bella could quite easily have still been alive now
I think perhaps you are being a bit too harsh on them. When Kim's mum and Aunts were disscussing the family wedding dress. One of the aunts commented that they wouldnt have known how to ask about the dress.
Which I thought was telling.
It isnt always easy to ask for help from relatives you barley know. We dont know what kind of relationship Kim's Grandmother had with Geroge Baugh mum, perhaps they never got on (not unusual for inlaws to not be fond of one another) and pride prevented her asking for help and they drifted out of each others lifes. It wouldnt be the first time it had happend.
Sadly neither Kim's Granny nor great granny are hear to tell their side of things.
There is also no need to damn the whole family for the mum's behaviour. The sister she met and spoke to were only children at the time about ages with Kim's mum, so that is very harsh.
Did I misunderstand that?? The woman worked with Kim's aunt, and was also in touch with George's sister?? Surely then they could have made contact many years ago?? Obviously, the sisters didnt know about his other life either, so it may not have made a huge difference, but I just found that a bit staged...
Very good programme tho, I liked the fact it was all about one relative, and that there were still living people affected by his actions.
I had tears in my eyes when the youngest sister saw her father the first time. I can't imagine what it must be like having spentyour life not even knowing what your dad looked like and then suddenly be given a photo, and then to see him looking so content with another family and one that he took with him to Australia.
George was obviously very selfish, but he was facinating as well. He must have been very restless, gusty and clever to stowaway on a cargo ship. And why didn't he like being photographed?! So many questions! I can't help wanting to know more about him, even though I think his actions and the impact it had on his families were appalling.
My hubby hates Sex in the City and groaned when he saw her on the TV. But he was stunned at how eloquent and normal and truly genuine a person she was. Doesn't she look incredible, in her 50s and no botox, wow I hope I age so well!!
Her whole family were so lovely, I do feel sorry for the second family in Australia.
It must have been such a shock to them, to learn after all these years that your father/grandfather who you loved, had done such a terrible thing and never let on. It must be deeply upsetting for them, as it changes their whole history too. Wonderful show!
I'd like to know more about the psychology behind George's behaviour too. Why the need to keep running? I understood his need to run away as a child if his own father was an alcoholic and an angry man - his sisters confirmed he was forever running away and being brought back by the police. That need to run away obviously stayed with him through adulthood - obviously doing a runner from his first family, even his own family parents, sisters never saw him again. Initially stowing away trying to get to New York, got sent back but then ran anyway and then dragged his new family over to Australia on a whim and out of the blue whether his wife liked it or not. Like someone else said, if his wife hadn't agreed he'd have gone anyway and left that family too.
There was just no sense of responsibility and obviously rather than dealing with any issues he would run and hide.
As for the earlier post for criticising others for judging George not knowing both sides of the story - whatever George's story was, absolutely nothing can justify doing a runner and leaving your own children to suffer in desperate poverty. That is bad enough but to then start another family and lead the life of riley while providing well for the new family and still denying the existence and support of the first family is hurtful and disgraceful - he was working in the Navy and obviously paid reasonably well and could and should have supported the first family. Besides that, we are discussing what we were told during the programme, we don't know why George did what he did we can only discuss what we know, but like I said, his reasons are irrelevant, his actions were unforgiveable.
I wondered this so looked it up. George and Isabella married in Q3 (July August or September) 1939 and Irene (the eldest daughter) was born Q3 1940.
Oh right thanks, glad I wasn't the only one that wondered that though. Irene was born in Manchester though wasn't she? They must have just married in C. Durham as that's where Bella's family were but were still living in Manchester? They were married very quickly though.
Where would you find the marriage details on the net and the children? I've been attempting some genealogy on my father's side and found nothing, surname Smith though) and also my maternal great grandmother and found a bit from the Irish Census of 1901 and 1911.
I have always liked Kim Cattrell, i have met her 2 times and she is so warm and gracious and completely different to the kind of upper class A Lister you would expect her to be(if that makes sense)! I love how she has never forgotten where she comes from and regularly visits her home town liverpool and relatives!
My thought was that He was maybe already a bigamist in his marriage to Kim's grandmother - he was totally camera-shy and secretive even then.
I so wanted there to be an honourable reason for his disappearance. It was so hard for the women to hear that he just bogged off and left them.
An entry contains the name, location registered and a code. You use these to order the certificates from the General Register Office, at a cost.
Thanks for that. Ancestry was one I have been looking at but as you say you have to be a paying member. Although they do have a 14 day free trial on at the moment but the only catch is you have to sign up fully for ongoing payments I think so you'd have to make sure you cancel it before 14 days is up I think but whether that goes smoothly I don't know.
So you don't get to see any details anyway though? Just a location and code and then have to pay to order the certificate anyway for the details? Hmmm...might give it a miss then, it's always going to be touch and go whether I'd have the right Smith anyway.
What a wonderful, dignified and grounded woman Kim Catrall is.
There is a free site that you can use to search for Birth/Marriage/Death certificates. The address is: http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Don't go paying for doing that but you will still have to pay for getting the certificates. Often it is cheaper to get the certificates directly from the local registar then from the GRO.
This is a good site that has information about looking for certificates (and the perils): http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm
It wasnt actually how they found out, thats just how the show said they did. There was actually a notice placed in the Liverpool Echo asking about info on the Wedding dress story and it was answered by a member of the family.
Brilliant, thank you!
I thought it odd to have to pay to see an index listing. Surely if those are public records we should be entitled to see them for free. I understand and okay with paying for a copy of the certificate itself but thanks for the tip on getting them cheaper.
Having seen that Heir Hunters programme a couple of times, I find it frustrating that a private business run for profit is easily able to access all sorts of private family history information much of which seems to be held in their own offices, yet we can't seem to access diddlysquat.
Off to search those websites. Thanks again.
(edit: just realised that's one I came across earlier, tried again anyway and still no joy, will have to use Ancestry.co.uk I think.)