I am watching Terminator 2 on ITV1.
Although i's still a good film, it's really showing its' age now. It is painfully obvious where they used the lookalikes and the Arnie masks.
Hey let's put down cutting edge CGI of that time and compare it all to CGI today.
I watched Metropolis again this week and it is still one of my favourite films. The special effects in it for 1927 still look superb.
Exploiting emotions??? So a supposedly emotionless killer robot suddenly decides to start using Physcology.
T-1000 could have made the sound of his Sarah being tortured himself..Arnie has that capability as well. he dosnt have to turn into anyone.
And what happens when John looks to see what is happening to Sarah and sees the T1000 version of his mother screaming for no reason? He'd run away, whereas if he sees his mother with a metal spike through her shoulder being tortured he might (foolishly) try to save her like he did at the mental hospital. It's blatantly obvious that the reason the T1000 did this is to lure John out of hiding by causing Sarah pain, the fact that Sarah refuses to scream because she knows what the T1000's plan is backs this up. This scene isn't a plot hole and is straightforward if you're paying attention.
And what is wrong with the T1000 using psychology to accomplish its goal? It mimics human behaviour so it's not exactly out of the realms of possibility that it might have some knowledge of how to exploit human psychology.
Hardly, all through the film the young John Connor is on a par with a trained special agent and the terminator has no feelings for anyone or anything, it is simply a machine programmed to do a job.
Final scene John starts to cry because the terminator has to be destroyed, the line delivered by Arnie in his best grandfatherly way
" I have to go away now" is probably the most ridiculous line in cinematic history:D
I always thought the tin foil gunshot wounds in the coridoor shootout were pretty obvious, same with the motorbike bridge double, but everything else was pretty superb for the time and still holds up well - except for turning the Terminator into a wimpy babysitter of course.
I always thought the tin foil gunshot wounds in the coridoor shootout were pretty obvious, same with the motorbike bridge double, but everything else was pretty superb for the time and still holds up well - except for turning the Terminator into a wimpy babysitter of course.
Could be worse, Robocop ended up running a nursery:D
Hardly, all through the film the young John Connor is on a par with a trained special agent and the terminator has no feelings for anyone or anything, it is simply a machine programmed to do a job.
Final scene John starts to cry because the terminator has to be destroyed, the line delivered by Arnie in his best grandfatherly way
" I have to go away now" is probably the most ridiculous line in cinematic history:D
Sorry, it probably wasn't too clear in the way i wrote the post. I was referring to T1, not T2. The script (or plot, whichever) for The Terminator is really lean and tight, and every scene drives the story on.
And what happens when John looks to see what is happening to Sarah and sees the T1000 version of his mother screaming for no reason? He'd run away, whereas if he sees his mother with a metal spike through her shoulder being tortured he might (foolishly) try to save her like he did at the mental hospital. It's blatantly obvious that the reason the T1000 did this is to lure John out of hiding by causing Sarah pain, the fact that Sarah refuses to scream because she knows what the T1000's plan is backs this up. This scene isn't a plot hole and is straightforward if you're paying attention.
And what is wrong with the T1000 using psychology to accomplish its goal? It mimics human behaviour so it's not exactly out of the realms of possibility that it might have some knowledge of how to exploit human psychology.
Why is he asking her to call for john when he can do that himself? Of course she is going to refuse. why doesn't he just kill Sarah?He's killed everyone else, and his objective is to kill them both, so why does he just torture her? Why not just kill her too, as is his goal - and it's what he's done to everyone else he's encountered, and then mimick her voice to call for John.
Or why didnt he just kill sarah and then disguise himself as the Arnie terminator to get close to John Connor?
You are all saying its becuase he cant morph properly but it gets even more stupid after Sarah Connor temporarily gets away (I forget how) the T-1000 actually emerges as Sarah two minutes later and starts calling to John as if she's hurt.Then the real Sarah shows up from behind him and shoots him.
Good movie anyway..except for the ending and edward furlong, and dosnt hold up as well as part one imo.
Why is he asking her to call for john when he can do that himself? Of course she is going to refuse. why doesn't he just kill Sarah?He's killed everyone else, and his objective is to kill them both, so why does he just torture her? Why not just kill her too, as is his goal - and it's what he's done to everyone else he's encountered, and then mimick her voice to call for John.
Or why didnt he just kill sarah and then disguise himself as the Arnie terminator to get close to John Connor?
You are all saying its becuase he cant morph properly but it gets even more stupid after Sarah Connor temporarily gets away (I forget how) the T-1000 actually emerges as Sarah two minutes later and starts calling to John as if she's hurt.Then the real Sarah shows up from behind him and shoots him.
Good movie anyway..except for the ending and edward furlong, and dosnt hold up as well as part one imo.
The T1000's mission isn't to kill Sarah, only John. Sarah would just be collateral damage at this point considering that she's already given birth to John. It attempted to use Sarah as bait purely because it suited it.
Also, it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie says that the T1000 can't transform into complex machines, it can only mimic humans that it comes into contact with and blunt stabbing type instruments, therefore it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie is machine.
As for the bit where it turns into Sarah only to be shot from behind by the real Sarah, I fail to see how that is "stupid", it was a last ditch attempt to trick John, a plan that ALMOST worked until John saw its melting feet (which again, is why it tried to use torturing Sarah as bait before transforming into her himself).
Also, it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie says that the T1000 can't transform into complex machines, it can only mimic humans that it comes into contact with and blunt stabbing type instruments, therefore it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie is machine.
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Nonsense! It wouldn't be mimicing his internal robot parts, just the living exo-skin. He'd be mote than capable of doing that.
Good point - doesnt Arnie say the T1000 can only morph into "an object of equal size" (he'd be equal to Arnie's size in the sense of both being human form)? However, if the T1000 cant mimic Arnie's machine parts John would surely know which one is real, were the T1000 to transform into Arnie.
The T1000's mission isn't to kill Sarah, only John. Sarah would just be collateral damage at this point considering that she's already given birth to John. It attempted to use Sarah as bait purely because it suited it.
Also, it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie says that the T1000 can't transform into complex machines, it can only mimic humans that it comes into contact with and blunt stabbing type instruments, therefore it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie is machine.
As for the bit where it turns into Sarah only to be shot from behind by the real Sarah, I fail to see how that is "stupid", it was a last ditch attempt to trick John, a plan that ALMOST worked until John saw its melting feet (which again, is why it tried to use torturing Sarah as bait before transforming into her himself).
So you are saying his plan is to use sarah as bait instead of just killing her and then mimicking her...but then sarah gets away 'doh' and then finally he has a moment of clarity and thinks 'hold on a sec,i can just pretend to be sarah and use myself as bait' which he then does only to then get shot by sarah from behind. #Epic-fail
So you are saying his plan is to use sarah as bait instead of just killing her and then mimicking her...but then sarah gets away 'doh' and then finally he has a moment of clarity and thinks 'hold on a sec,i can just pretend to be sarah and use myself as bait' which he then does only to then get shot by sarah from behind. #Epic-fail
Um, you do realise the point of a film is to be entertaining? If the T1000 just offed John 2 minutes into the film yes, that would be more efficient but it wouldn't make for a very entertaining night at the cinema, would it?
Um, you do realise the point of a film is to be entertaining? If the T1000 just offed John 2 minutes into the film yes, that would be more efficient but it wouldn't make for a very entertaining night at the cinema, would it?
Im talking about the last 10 mins not the first 2.
So you are saying his plan is to use sarah as bait instead of just killing her and then mimicking her...but then sarah gets away 'doh' and then finally he has a moment of clarity and thinks 'hold on a sec,i can just pretend to be sarah and use myself as bait' which he then does only to then get shot by sarah from behind. #Epic-fail
Yeah pretty much. I don't really see why it's an "epic fail" though, you just seem to be trying to make it seem like there's a plot hole there when there really isn't one...
Like I said, it mimics Sarah as a last resort because it knows that it is malfunctioning and will be outed as the T1000 within seconds of John coming face to face with it, it tortures Sarah because if John hears and sees the T1000 torturing his mother then he might be more inclined to approach it. And you keep making out that Sarah escaping the T1000's clutches in this scene is somehow stupid, but I'm pretty sure that the T1000 wasn't expecting Arnie to appear behind him with a metal pole and split it in half, it's not a stupid illogical escape.
In any case, lets just agree to disagree because it feels like we're just going around in circles here.
I think a lot of people were fooled by the enormous budget and CGI effects into thinking that T2 was a better film but I find it rather too cringeworthy for too much of the time
It's not just the CGI. T2 has a more complex plot with richer themes. The machine becomes more human while the people become less human. For example, I love the scene where Sarah almost kills the scientist; I don't recall any comparable moral dilemmas from the first film. Likewise the scene where John and Sarah argue about destroying the chip, and she has to decide whether to accept her son's leadership decisions. I also prefer the pacing, including the slow point where they escape, take stock, and then take the initiative. For me T1 is merely an extended chase sequence which becomes dull quite quickly.
For me T1 is merely an extended chase sequence which becomes dull quite quickly.
I think T1 is far better. I like the whole premise that makes Kyle just seem like some psycho stalker. In fact, I always wonder if the plot would have been even better if we didn't see the Terminator doing things like actually executing the other Sarah Connor, making the audience wonder too whether Kyle was the killer, up to the reveal shoot-out at Tech Noir. Not sure how they could have though. I suppose that "Is he good / is he bad?" theme was done in T2 up to the "Get down!" bit at the Galleria.
Also, in T2, a little "blink and you miss it" moment. In the bar fight at the beginning, watch Arnie after he pins the guy to the pool table with the knife. He pulls his arm away in this really fluid, robotic way. It's very cool.
I think T1 is far better. I like the whole premise that makes Kyle just seem like some psycho stalker. In fact, I always wonder if the plot would have been even better if we didn't see the Terminator doing things like actually executing the other Sarah Connor, making the audience wonder too whether Kyle was the killer, up to the reveal shoot-out at Tech Noir. Not sure how they could have though. I suppose that "Is he good / is he bad?" theme was done in T2 up to the "Get down!" bit at the Galleria.
I think T1 is far better. I like the whole premise that makes Kyle just seem like some psycho stalker. In fact, I always wonder if the plot would have been even better if we didn't see the Terminator doing things like actually executing the other Sarah Connor, making the audience wonder too whether Kyle was the killer, up to the reveal shoot-out at Tech Noir. Not sure how they could have though. I suppose that "Is he good / is he bad?" theme was done in T2 up to the "Get down!" bit at the Galleria.
Never thought about that before. Could have been interesting but personally I think the relative simplicity of the first film, knowing who is who, right from the off. The characters needed to be formed by that point I think.
Put it this way, when we already know what Arnie is when he goes into Tech Noir, and Sarah does not, I think is suspenseful enough. Especially when she sees Kyle staring at her from across the bar, and she imagines he is the one out to kill her. I like the fact we already know he is her protector. I prefer T1 to T2.
Comments
Hey let's put down cutting edge CGI of that time and compare it all to CGI today.
I watched Metropolis again this week and it is still one of my favourite films. The special effects in it for 1927 still look superb.
In the alternative ending. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5omWKXTqE
Personally, I consider this the real ending of T2, and the franchise.
And what happens when John looks to see what is happening to Sarah and sees the T1000 version of his mother screaming for no reason? He'd run away, whereas if he sees his mother with a metal spike through her shoulder being tortured he might (foolishly) try to save her like he did at the mental hospital. It's blatantly obvious that the reason the T1000 did this is to lure John out of hiding by causing Sarah pain, the fact that Sarah refuses to scream because she knows what the T1000's plan is backs this up. This scene isn't a plot hole and is straightforward if you're paying attention.
And what is wrong with the T1000 using psychology to accomplish its goal? It mimics human behaviour so it's not exactly out of the realms of possibility that it might have some knowledge of how to exploit human psychology.
Hardly, all through the film the young John Connor is on a par with a trained special agent and the terminator has no feelings for anyone or anything, it is simply a machine programmed to do a job.
Final scene John starts to cry because the terminator has to be destroyed, the line delivered by Arnie in his best grandfatherly way
" I have to go away now" is probably the most ridiculous line in cinematic history:D
Could be worse, Robocop ended up running a nursery:D
Sorry, it probably wasn't too clear in the way i wrote the post. I was referring to T1, not T2. The script (or plot, whichever) for The Terminator is really lean and tight, and every scene drives the story on.
I think its in the end coda of the Extended SE (the one with the alternate terrible "happy" ending where there's no Judgement Day)
I thought you were joking, but I've just seen the alternate ending.
Glad they didn't use it in the end.
She says "Michael Jackson still turned forty" in it. :eek:
Why is he asking her to call for john when he can do that himself? Of course she is going to refuse. why doesn't he just kill Sarah?He's killed everyone else, and his objective is to kill them both, so why does he just torture her? Why not just kill her too, as is his goal - and it's what he's done to everyone else he's encountered, and then mimick her voice to call for John.
Or why didnt he just kill sarah and then disguise himself as the Arnie terminator to get close to John Connor?
You are all saying its becuase he cant morph properly but it gets even more stupid after Sarah Connor temporarily gets away (I forget how) the T-1000 actually emerges as Sarah two minutes later and starts calling to John as if she's hurt.Then the real Sarah shows up from behind him and shoots him.
Good movie anyway..except for the ending and edward furlong, and dosnt hold up as well as part one imo.
The T1000's mission isn't to kill Sarah, only John. Sarah would just be collateral damage at this point considering that she's already given birth to John. It attempted to use Sarah as bait purely because it suited it.
Also, it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie says that the T1000 can't transform into complex machines, it can only mimic humans that it comes into contact with and blunt stabbing type instruments, therefore it couldn't transform into Arnie as Arnie is machine.
As for the bit where it turns into Sarah only to be shot from behind by the real Sarah, I fail to see how that is "stupid", it was a last ditch attempt to trick John, a plan that ALMOST worked until John saw its melting feet (which again, is why it tried to use torturing Sarah as bait before transforming into her himself).
Nonsense! It wouldn't be mimicing his internal robot parts, just the living exo-skin. He'd be mote than capable of doing that.
So you are saying his plan is to use sarah as bait instead of just killing her and then mimicking her...but then sarah gets away 'doh' and then finally he has a moment of clarity and thinks 'hold on a sec,i can just pretend to be sarah and use myself as bait' which he then does only to then get shot by sarah from behind. #Epic-fail
Um, you do realise the point of a film is to be entertaining? If the T1000 just offed John 2 minutes into the film yes, that would be more efficient but it wouldn't make for a very entertaining night at the cinema, would it?
Im talking about the last 10 mins not the first 2.
Yeah pretty much. I don't really see why it's an "epic fail" though, you just seem to be trying to make it seem like there's a plot hole there when there really isn't one...
Like I said, it mimics Sarah as a last resort because it knows that it is malfunctioning and will be outed as the T1000 within seconds of John coming face to face with it, it tortures Sarah because if John hears and sees the T1000 torturing his mother then he might be more inclined to approach it. And you keep making out that Sarah escaping the T1000's clutches in this scene is somehow stupid, but I'm pretty sure that the T1000 wasn't expecting Arnie to appear behind him with a metal pole and split it in half, it's not a stupid illogical escape.
In any case, lets just agree to disagree because it feels like we're just going around in circles here.
Have a major problem with Arnie as the 'good' cyborg.
I think T1 is far better. I like the whole premise that makes Kyle just seem like some psycho stalker. In fact, I always wonder if the plot would have been even better if we didn't see the Terminator doing things like actually executing the other Sarah Connor, making the audience wonder too whether Kyle was the killer, up to the reveal shoot-out at Tech Noir. Not sure how they could have though. I suppose that "Is he good / is he bad?" theme was done in T2 up to the "Get down!" bit at the Galleria.
That would have been interesting....
Never thought about that before. Could have been interesting but personally I think the relative simplicity of the first film, knowing who is who, right from the off. The characters needed to be formed by that point I think.
Put it this way, when we already know what Arnie is when he goes into Tech Noir, and Sarah does not, I think is suspenseful enough. Especially when she sees Kyle staring at her from across the bar, and she imagines he is the one out to kill her. I like the fact we already know he is her protector. I prefer T1 to T2.