Interesting that we've got a non-practising Muslim on here, but still people go on about the "demographic timebomb", assuming that all children born to British Muslims will be very religious.
Also interesting that he's speaking out against violence and STILL getting shit from various quarters. Almost as if it's not just extremists they have a problem with, right?
Polling has suggested that the younger muslim generation has more extreme views than their parents.
No, they should help themselves towards democracy if that's what they want. It was tried in Egypt though and they immediately voted in an Islamic party which implemented Sharia Law. Political Islam and democracy simply aren't compatible.
The transmogrification into a democratic society does not - and has never - happened overnight in any society that desires to espouse it.
It's like a child learning to walk - it stumbles often and needs encouragment and guidance from those who have learned from experience. It takes time. Many and slip and all that...
To suppose that Egypt could morph in one blithe leap into a fully formed and functioning democracy is naive, to say the least.
The point of the post, which you appear to have missed, is that those who are bemoaning extremist Islamists wanting to remove those values, are themselves in this very thread wanting us to remove those same British values, to deal with extremists who want to remove those values.
I am afraid the simple truth is that Islam is simply not compatible with modern secular Western democracies.
Read the Quran - and look at the life of it's founder.
Christianity has lost it's most of power (and thus it's barbarity) in this country - but I really fear for the future with thousands upon thousands of home grown Islamic extremists plotting to kill their own neighbours and fellow citizens.
The transmogrification into a democratic society does not - and has never - happened overnight in any society that desires to espouse it.
It's like a child learning to walk - it stumbles often and needs encouragment and guidance from those who have learned from experience. It takes time. Many and slip and all that...
To suppose that Egypt could morph in one blithe leap into a fully formed and functioning democracy is naive, to say the least.
Which is why USA and UK current tactics of starting war and establishing democracy and then leaving is not working.
India weirdly enough is the perfect case Britain more or less built all the structure and democracy plant were all already established by the time they got Independence.
Compare to many african countries where they got independence without much infrastructure in place or any signs of democracy and most are in turmoil with dictators and very poor economies.
Most of the time USA and UK leave far too early to make any improvement in the country and most of the time they make it worse since they create civil wars with so many sides trying to be the next dictator in the country or region.
That's what I'm worried about - I don't see how we'll be able to prove that all these people who have committed murder in Iraq have actually done so. I fear many of them will therefore get off scot free or be handed a pitiful sentence and be allowed back onto our streets to kill.
How long before there's another bomb on the tube and it's linked back to someone who fought with IS and slipped through the net?
Agreed.
But unfortunately if we want to preserve out British values, those of freedom, respect, tolerance, the belief of innocent until proven guilty and the proper rule of law and such like, that is something we will have to deal with at the time.
This is the problem for me you and others are lumping all Muslim people together. The people who committed the atrocities for IS are beneath contempt. My neighbours are a lovely family who I class as friends from the grandad right down to their grandchildren. To mention them and other ordinary Muslims in the same breath as IS is so wrong it's scary. Do you even take a minute and think about the people who are lumped in with the general Muslim rhetoric on here. This is turning into a witch hunt.[/
No not a witch hunt but a genuine concern for UK residents who have a right to live in their country without threat from an enemy within, their words and mantra and they should not be allowed to continue to live in this country. Full stop.
I am afraid the simple truth is that Islam is simply not compatible with modern secular Western democracies.
Read the Quran - and look at the life of it's founder.
Christianity has lost it's most of power (and thus it's barbarity) in this country - but I really fear for the future with thousands upon thousands of home grown Islamic extremists plotting to kill their own neighbours and fellow citizens.
If that is not PC then tough shit.
If that Armageddon scenario ever comes to pass, than all I can say is this:-
You really don't want to get the British mad.
Thankfully, I suspect I shall have shuffled off this mortal coil by the time that happens (even if it is only just around the corner - relatively speaking, that is.)
The point of the post, which you appear to have missed, is that those who are bemoaning extremist Islamists wanting to remove those values, are themselves in this very thread wanting us to remove those same British values, to deal with extremists who want to remove those values.
If you are referring to the British values which make us a soft touch, then yes we should remove them and get a backbone.
I reckon most people would find it difficult to get a wife that they actually like especially with the new generation of people mostly on Facebook and barely getting out and meeting new people.
Wasn't their a BBC Documentary years ago saying more people are doing arrange marries in the uk with Best friends finding suitable partners for their friends.
Not a fan of Forced marriages but Arrange marriages are not a bad thing since they do remove the pressure of not being a bachelor if you are having trouble finding a wife that you would be happy to spend time with for rest of your life.
Then I think you are making my point. A lack of interpersonal skills; whatever the cause makes it more difficult for people to make relationships; find wives/husbands etc.
Relying on Facebook or other people to arrange marriages all contribute to this alienation I suspect. Although I suspect the later is a bigger problem. At least facebook requires some contribution from the people involved.
How exactly are indigenous British people a part of the problem? No one apart from a few casual racists had an issue with Muslims until 9/11 and the many Islamic terrorist atrocities that have occurred since then.
Any negativity towards Muslims has been in response to the actions of Islamic terrorists from this country and aspects of Islam that are at odds with our morals and values.
Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jews aren't beheading people, planting bombs, hacking soldiers to death in the street, trying to impose sharia law, preaching hatred in schools and mosques etc.
We have a growing problem with Islamic fundamentalism in this country and I'd say the public have been incredibly tolerant of the situation and supportive of Muslims who do not subscribe to extremist views all things considered.
Millions of UK citizens were opposed to the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and those feelings have been made known very vociferously. What exactly are British citizens supposed to do and for how much longer do we have to put up with the murderous threat of Islamic fundamentalists in our own damn country before we have the right to be pissed off?
ISIS offered to swap Foley for 'Lady al Qaeda': Terrorists wanted return of MIT-educated neuroscientist who was caught with plans for 'mass casualty attack' with a dirty bomb, Ebola, and a chemical weapon 'that spared children'
ISIS offered to swap Foley for 'Lady al Qaeda': Terrorists wanted return of MIT-educated neuroscientist who was caught with plans for 'mass casualty attack' with a dirty bomb, Ebola, and a chemical weapon 'that spared children'
ISIS offered to swap Foley for 'Lady al Qaeda': Terrorists wanted return of MIT-educated neuroscientist who was caught with plans for 'mass casualty attack' with a dirty bomb, Ebola, and a chemical weapon 'that spared children'
Apportioning blame on innocent people is ridiculous. The FM is doing what we all are, discussing it on a forum. Did you expect all Catholics around the world to scream from the rooftops and target the IRA? What are Christians here doing about the Christian Militias in Africa? The list is endless yet you seek out a Muslim, who is nothing to do with IS, to attack.
The people doing this are British Muslims, other British Muslims must know who they are.
The people doing this are British Muslims, other British Muslims must know who they are.
The rest of your post is apologist twaddle.
Isn't that a bit like suggesting that "other white people" must know about white people who are abusing their kids etc, and implying they're somehow responsible?
Do you know what your neighbours get up to?
I don't.
The people doing this are British Muslims, other British Muslims must know who they are.
Perhaps the Muslim poster will meet with the people here berating him, let you all force his arm up his back until he agrees to go out and stop ISIS singlehandedly or at least gives up the information on who the killer in the video is?
Comments
Polling has suggested that the younger muslim generation has more extreme views than their parents.
The transmogrification into a democratic society does not - and has never - happened overnight in any society that desires to espouse it.
It's like a child learning to walk - it stumbles often and needs encouragment and guidance from those who have learned from experience. It takes time. Many and slip and all that...
To suppose that Egypt could morph in one blithe leap into a fully formed and functioning democracy is naive, to say the least.
The point of the post, which you appear to have missed, is that those who are bemoaning extremist Islamists wanting to remove those values, are themselves in this very thread wanting us to remove those same British values, to deal with extremists who want to remove those values.
I am afraid the simple truth is that Islam is simply not compatible with modern secular Western democracies.
Read the Quran - and look at the life of it's founder.
Christianity has lost it's most of power (and thus it's barbarity) in this country - but I really fear for the future with thousands upon thousands of home grown Islamic extremists plotting to kill their own neighbours and fellow citizens.
If that is not PC then tough shit.
That's a bit of generalizing.
Many of us are more introspective than that.
When Bush went into Iraq, I recall concern that it would lead to alienating moderate Muslims and leading to more radicalization.
Which is why USA and UK current tactics of starting war and establishing democracy and then leaving is not working.
India weirdly enough is the perfect case Britain more or less built all the structure and democracy plant were all already established by the time they got Independence.
Compare to many african countries where they got independence without much infrastructure in place or any signs of democracy and most are in turmoil with dictators and very poor economies.
Most of the time USA and UK leave far too early to make any improvement in the country and most of the time they make it worse since they create civil wars with so many sides trying to be the next dictator in the country or region.
Agreed.
But unfortunately if we want to preserve out British values, those of freedom, respect, tolerance, the belief of innocent until proven guilty and the proper rule of law and such like, that is something we will have to deal with at the time.
If that Armageddon scenario ever comes to pass, than all I can say is this:-
You really don't want to get the British mad.
Thankfully, I suspect I shall have shuffled off this mortal coil by the time that happens (even if it is only just around the corner - relatively speaking, that is.)
Radical Islam is the biggest threat to the world since you know who - and I will not invoke Godwin's law by saying his name either.
If you are referring to the British values which make us a soft touch, then yes we should remove them and get a backbone.
Agreed.
Then I think you are making my point. A lack of interpersonal skills; whatever the cause makes it more difficult for people to make relationships; find wives/husbands etc.
Relying on Facebook or other people to arrange marriages all contribute to this alienation I suspect. Although I suspect the later is a bigger problem. At least facebook requires some contribution from the people involved.
Draw your own conclusions.
link
Deleted.
Well said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2731164/ISIS-offered-swap-Foley-Lady-Al-Qaeda-Terrorists-wanted-return-MIT-graduate-jailed-U-S-planning-mass-casualty-strike-dirty-bomb-ebola-chemical-weapon-spared-children.html
Education apparently not the answer in this case.
I second that.
What the hell are the actions of these lunatics got to do with the ordinary man on the street?
If beheading innocent men, women and children is not enough to piss some people off just what exactly will do it?
I have nothing to blame myself for as these extremist savages infest the country - my conscience is clear.
Would they take Lady GaGa instead?
That is horrifying MrQuike - a neuroscientist of all things - I just cannot understand the mindset of these people.
The people doing this are British Muslims, other British Muslims must know who they are.
The rest of your post is apologist twaddle.
Isn't that a bit like suggesting that "other white people" must know about white people who are abusing their kids etc, and implying they're somehow responsible?
Do you know what your neighbours get up to?
I don't.
OMG I've never heard of "Lady GaGa" either!
Perhaps the Muslim poster will meet with the people here berating him, let you all force his arm up his back until he agrees to go out and stop ISIS singlehandedly or at least gives up the information on who the killer in the video is?
Jeez...