they've effectively rendered a number of boxes "strangled"...
I thought that's what you meant, but the thing is they were only providing the EPG under contract from the manufacturers (or agents of). So when the contract expires, someone has to pay for a new one.
The only people to blame here are Sony, Thomson, Inverto and Digifusion who have allowed the contract to expire and not updated the firmware to use an alternative EPG (ie the Freeview one).
If I was a Sony or Thomson owner I'd be giving these large corporations a hard time.
I can't remember offhand wether this box or the t825 is the most reliable probably a good read of the digihome pages will confirm that
From what I understand there are two versions of the T845 software, one version used on the Tits up TV boxes and one on an Alba box with just a standard software epg. I think it is the T845R which is more stable and used on the Alba box - im sure that someone will correct me if im wrong.
Mum and Dad have the Alba box and it has been a very reliable box. Argos stocked them up to a few months ago and then they were sold out completely - it even dropped down to a silly price on their website of £70, it has now returned to £129 and stock has returned. I will be off to buy one to replace my 200 which will be retired to the bedroom.
The only external difference between the Alba and the Luxor box apart from the name is the colour. The luxor is all black but the Alba has a silver case with a black front
It has a more accurate series link/accurate recording than the Humax and for £129.99 my money will go there until a reliable HD pvr has been out for at least a year.
I think that the end of the EPG is sad. Once I had checked DS to find out why my EPG wasn't updating and found that it was game over, I started to think about quickly getting a replacement box. However, I've now thought about it and realised that it's not as bad as I thought. Fortunately, I have the following things going for me:
- I buy the Radio Times each week, not really sure why, it's just a habit I've gotten into
- This thread has reminded me that the Digifusion boxes have the WEEKLY record facility (not sure if my FVRT100 should have, but I upgraded the firmware to the 200's and it now has)
and ... I own a Panasonic DMR-EX78 with a 250GB hard disk and Freeview+ (single tuner though, so it can't be viewed as a direct replacement).
Therefore, my plan is to not rush and buy another box (but I am checking to see if the satellite connection in my flat is wired up, because I'll be getting the Grundig Freesat recorder if it is).
- I've used my last week of EPG to change the recordings of those shows that are dependably on at the same time each week to Weekly, e.g. Southland on More4, IT Crowd Channel 4.
- Instead of having regular sessions on the FVRT100 to add new episodes of upcoming shows, I'll just have a weekly check of the Radio Times to make sure they are on at the same time.
- I'll use the Panasonic with series link to record shows that are shunted about the schedule or one offs
- If I want to add a new show, then I'll either add it manually or, if I'm at home, catch it as "next" show on Now/Next and add it as a weekly from that (if I'm not sure, I'll just stick it on the Panasonic as a failsafe)
- I'll use the FVRT100 for watching TV live and using the pause etc.
Overall, my FVRT100 has given me great service and I've had my value from it. It is dated now though and I've noticed a bit of noise from mine. In a way, I'm happy for an excuse to upgrade but I don't feel the need to rush into it.
I thought that's what you meant, but the thing is they were only providing the EPG under contract from the manufacturers (or agents of). So when the contract expires, someone has to pay for a new one.
The only people to blame here are Sony, Thomson, Inverto and Digifusion who have allowed the contract to expire and not updated the firmware to use an alternative EPG (ie the Freeview one).
If I was a Sony or Thomson owner I'd be giving these large corporations a hard time.
I'm not sure about Thomson these days, but theoretically Sony could/should do something for it's customers.
It's more likely though that the solution would be an update to new firmware (if they can find someone to write it and the old source code) to use the 8 day Freeview EPG. The problem is that would cost them more than giving each remaining user a £100 trade in towards the cost of a new Sony PVR which does use the 8 day EPG.
Has anyone looked into the small print of the EULA type documents to see whether it grants any rights to the customer beyond the warranty period? Doubtful, I know.
Car manufacturers would never try getting away with saying 'Your two year old car is now defunct because we don't support the engine management software any more.'!
I think that the end of the EPG is sad. Once I had checked DS to find out why my EPG wasn't updating and found that it was game over, I started to think about quickly getting a replacement box. However, I've now thought about it and realised that it's not as bad as I thought.
{snip}
There will be plenty of guidance on the Fusion threads on how to get a few more months or even years out of these boxes for some time to come.
I was already manually scheduling CBeebies recordings due to missing data for that channel and as you say, with fixed weekly programmes it's less of an issue.
I also think that timely use of the Now and Next data will be useful if you're in front of the box when the first episode starts as it is a bit of a pain trying to type in useful programme titles by hand!
Do we know for certain that the Fusion clock and calendar will continue to update?
From what I understand there are two versions of the T845 software, one version used on the Tits up TV boxes and one on an Alba box with just a standard software epg. I think it is the T845R which is more stable and used on the Alba box - im sure that someone will correct me if im wrong.
Yes, the links provided on this site to the Vestel support site indicate that the TUTV 845 is less well developed than the 845R used by the Argos model.
Neither will rewind live TV though.
The eBuyer TUTV version does not have Series Link.
RaplhB wrote: Yes, the links provided on this site to the Vestel support site indicate that the TUTV 845 is less well developed than the 845R used by the Argos model.
Neither will rewind live TV though.
The eBuyer TUTV version does not have Series Link.
I may be misreading but looking at the pdf Manual linked on the eBuyer website, the TUTV unit does the same as the Fusion by constantly recording the last 30 mins (can be altered to Off,15,45 or 60 mins) so rewinding Live TV is a feature (see P.27).
Also the manual states that if a broadcast has a series link tag you have the option to either cancel the recording, record all the programmes with the series link tag or just record the one programme removing the series link (see P.22).
Although I've read some unflattering customer reports on this unit I have today ordered one for delivery on Monday 5 July (£60.98 delivered).
I'm no expert but when I've had a play, I'll try to give an opinion on it compared with the FVRT200's which I've been using for the last 4 or 5 years.
I'm in the same boat as many looking for a new box to replace my FVRT200 which I've been very pleased with. While looking around for an urgent replacement that isn't going to break the bank, I've been a bit scared off by the Humax (EPG speed - see below) and Toppy both of which appear to be beyond their best before date and a bit flaky (or have I got that wrong?).
I have some questions which I can't easily find answers to elsewhere:
1) The Humax seems to take up to 30 mins to load the EPG? I thought the Digifusion load in 3 secs was normal on PVRs, do all others download them on demand or are others downloaded overnight a la Digifusion? Mrs F often turns on the PVR just to set for a programme that she's just spotted in RT on the interweb, she won't be impressed by having to wait for ages!
2) I don't see the Sagem DTR6730T being mentioned as an alternative to the Humax and Topfield. Am I missing something? It looks to have good reviews by consumers on retailers websites. Competitively prices at £130 new. It used Freeview+ as EPG. I don't know much about it. Is it good and reliable? Does series linking work ok on Freeview+
I don't know the Topfields are flakey, but - they are a device you can add complex uncontrolled and untested user-programming to. A manufacturer would thoroughly test its own sotftware to ensure stability, but they can't test user written code and the user doesn't have the facilities to do this.
I consider the supplied Topfield software nearly unusable. It's just about good enough to call it a PVR but niggles everywhere.
Mystuff replaces the UI and EPG gathering, HDD caching, searching for programmes and inserting them into the native timer for recording. Pretty much every menu screen is replaced by a much more logical, better one. Ideas from users are taken on board. It's a shame manufacturers don't do the same.
Did Humax not sort their slow EPG problem and cache it on the hard disc with the latest software?
I have to get a box for my parents but fear the Topfield would be too complex for them.
I may be misreading but looking at the pdf Manual linked on the eBuyer website, the TUTV unit does the same as the Fusion by constantly recording the last 30 mins (can be altered to Off,15,45 or 60 mins) so rewinding Live TV is a feature (see P.27).
Also the manual states that if a broadcast has a series link tag you have the option to either cancel the recording, record all the programmes with the series link tag or just record the one programme removing the series link (see P.22).
Although I've read some unflattering customer reports on this unit I have today ordered one for delivery on Monday 5 July (£60.98 delivered).
I'm no expert but when I've had a play, I'll try to give an opinion on it compared with the FVRT200's which I've been using for the last 4 or 5 years.
Regarding the eBuyer TUTV unit, perhaps it was me that was being misled by some of the reviews on the site regarding this unit.
If it stores the last x minutes in the same manner as the Digifusion then rewinding live TV should operate in exactly the same way! Doh! That's the trouble with relying on 'reviews' by owners who haven't actually grasped how to use the product properly.
That notwithstanding, the Argos unit (Alba rebranded version of the eBuyer TUTV unit) is a more recent model (945 vs 945R); the latter is fully Freeview+ compliant whereas the former is only 'partially' compliant, once again according to the unofficial support site.
I await with some eagerness the first reviews of the unit from fellow forum members!
1) The Humax seems to take up to 30 mins to load the EPG? I thought the Digifusion load in 3 secs was normal on PVRs, do all others download them on demand or are others downloaded overnight a la Digifusion?
From what I've gathered in the Humax forum, it certainly was (very) slow to download the EPG when coming out of standby. The most recent OAD has corrected this by using the disk to store the EPG which then gets updated on-the-fly.
But the Humax owners are now complaining about a new bug that this OAD has introduced and suggest holding off getting this update and waiting for the next one (whenever that might be) and just put up with the slow EPG in the meantime.
From what I've gathered in the Humax forum, it certainly was (very) slow to download the EPG when coming out of standby. The most recent OAD has corrected this by using the disk to store the EPG which then gets updated on-the-fly.
But the Humax owners are now complaining about a new bug that this OAD has introduced and suggest holding off getting this update and waiting for the next one (whenever that might be) and just put up with the slow EPG in the meantime.
Personally, I have not experienced this latest issue. The patch was to mainly fix the perfornance issues with the boxes when they were first switched on. During the time the box was downloading the EPG (which can take several minutes), the box would be on a go-slow and appear to hang occasionally.
Humax decided to introduce the caching to HDD option, due to the increased time it took to load the EPG under the new code.
I got one of these last year to replace my 145. It was a Logik. It lasted two days before the 145 was back in place. Why? Picture quality, it was awful compared to the 145.
I now have one of the Philips HD PVRs. PQ is great, software a bit buggy but usable.
Given some of the feedback in the Humax forum, I'm getting tempted by a refurb 9200 with 320GB disk for £105 from Humax direct. If this gives me a couple of year's service, then I can think about a true next generation PVR supporting HD and Canvas.
That was my thinking. I picked up a 9200 on Ebay for sixty quid, and if it keeps me going for a year or two - till Freeview HD hits this area - that'll be fine.
So I am now the proud owner of:
- a Pace Twin
- an FVRT200
- an FVRT145
- a Thomson tits up box (don't ask!)
- and any day now, a 9200
If only I could merge them altogether, I'd have a digibox with 900Gb of storage and twelve tuners...
It arrived at 9.45 this morning, up and running by 10 and the overall impression is very good (it even came with batteries for the remote)! Installation couldn't have been easier, remote works from pretty much everywhere in the room, you can set ‘padding’ to your recordings and the box itself is totally silent.
If I hadn’t rushed into buying this, maybe I would have gone with the Alba. Can anyone confirm the picture quality on this unit?
Picture quality on the Luxor is about the same as the FVRT (maybe a little poorer, but only marginally), but as long as it records OK and doesn’t develop any problems over the next couple of weeks then this will tide me over until a decent HD PVR presents itself.
Comments
http://www.vestelpvr.futaura.co.uk/
http://www.vestelpvr.futaura.co.uk/allmodels.php
site run by DS contributor Futaura
I can't remember offhand wether this box or the t825 is the most reliable probably a good read of the digihome pages will confirm that
Suprised Sony arent gunning for them
_ I wonder if I could take mine bakc to Currys under the sales of goods act - not fit for purpose...
probably on the outer limits of it...
Sheeesh... 2 defunct SETPAL Freeview boxes and now my PVR... this is starting to get costly!
Steve
As it's a TUTV box, can it be used without running TopUp TV?
them ?? who do you mean?
they've effectively rendered a number of boxes "strangled"...
I thought that's what you meant, but the thing is they were only providing the EPG under contract from the manufacturers (or agents of). So when the contract expires, someone has to pay for a new one.
The only people to blame here are Sony, Thomson, Inverto and Digifusion who have allowed the contract to expire and not updated the firmware to use an alternative EPG (ie the Freeview one).
If I was a Sony or Thomson owner I'd be giving these large corporations a hard time.
From what I understand there are two versions of the T845 software, one version used on the Tits up TV boxes and one on an Alba box with just a standard software epg. I think it is the T845R which is more stable and used on the Alba box - im sure that someone will correct me if im wrong.
Mum and Dad have the Alba box and it has been a very reliable box. Argos stocked them up to a few months ago and then they were sold out completely - it even dropped down to a silly price on their website of £70, it has now returned to £129 and stock has returned. I will be off to buy one to replace my 200 which will be retired to the bedroom.
The only external difference between the Alba and the Luxor box apart from the name is the colour. The luxor is all black but the Alba has a silver case with a black front
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321959/Trail/searchtext>ALBA+FREEVIEW.html
It has a more accurate series link/accurate recording than the Humax and for £129.99 my money will go there until a reliable HD pvr has been out for at least a year.
- I buy the Radio Times each week, not really sure why, it's just a habit I've gotten into
- This thread has reminded me that the Digifusion boxes have the WEEKLY record facility (not sure if my FVRT100 should have, but I upgraded the firmware to the 200's and it now has)
and ... I own a Panasonic DMR-EX78 with a 250GB hard disk and Freeview+ (single tuner though, so it can't be viewed as a direct replacement).
Therefore, my plan is to not rush and buy another box (but I am checking to see if the satellite connection in my flat is wired up, because I'll be getting the Grundig Freesat recorder if it is).
- I've used my last week of EPG to change the recordings of those shows that are dependably on at the same time each week to Weekly, e.g. Southland on More4, IT Crowd Channel 4.
- Instead of having regular sessions on the FVRT100 to add new episodes of upcoming shows, I'll just have a weekly check of the Radio Times to make sure they are on at the same time.
- I'll use the Panasonic with series link to record shows that are shunted about the schedule or one offs
- If I want to add a new show, then I'll either add it manually or, if I'm at home, catch it as "next" show on Now/Next and add it as a weekly from that (if I'm not sure, I'll just stick it on the Panasonic as a failsafe)
- I'll use the FVRT100 for watching TV live and using the pause etc.
Overall, my FVRT100 has given me great service and I've had my value from it. It is dated now though and I've noticed a bit of noise from mine. In a way, I'm happy for an excuse to upgrade but I don't feel the need to rush into it.
I'm not sure about Thomson these days, but theoretically Sony could/should do something for it's customers.
It's more likely though that the solution would be an update to new firmware (if they can find someone to write it and the old source code) to use the 8 day Freeview EPG. The problem is that would cost them more than giving each remaining user a £100 trade in towards the cost of a new Sony PVR which does use the 8 day EPG.
Has anyone looked into the small print of the EULA type documents to see whether it grants any rights to the customer beyond the warranty period? Doubtful, I know.
Car manufacturers would never try getting away with saying 'Your two year old car is now defunct because we don't support the engine management software any more.'!
There will be plenty of guidance on the Fusion threads on how to get a few more months or even years out of these boxes for some time to come.
I was already manually scheduling CBeebies recordings due to missing data for that channel and as you say, with fixed weekly programmes it's less of an issue.
I also think that timely use of the Now and Next data will be useful if you're in front of the box when the first episode starts as it is a bit of a pain trying to type in useful programme titles by hand!
Do we know for certain that the Fusion clock and calendar will continue to update?
Neither will rewind live TV though.
The eBuyer TUTV version does not have Series Link.
I may be misreading but looking at the pdf Manual linked on the eBuyer website, the TUTV unit does the same as the Fusion by constantly recording the last 30 mins (can be altered to Off,15,45 or 60 mins) so rewinding Live TV is a feature (see P.27).
Also the manual states that if a broadcast has a series link tag you have the option to either cancel the recording, record all the programmes with the series link tag or just record the one programme removing the series link (see P.22).
Although I've read some unflattering customer reports on this unit I have today ordered one for delivery on Monday 5 July (£60.98 delivered).
I'm no expert but when I've had a play, I'll try to give an opinion on it compared with the FVRT200's which I've been using for the last 4 or 5 years.
I have some questions which I can't easily find answers to elsewhere:
1) The Humax seems to take up to 30 mins to load the EPG? I thought the Digifusion load in 3 secs was normal on PVRs, do all others download them on demand or are others downloaded overnight a la Digifusion? Mrs F often turns on the PVR just to set for a programme that she's just spotted in RT on the interweb, she won't be impressed by having to wait for ages!
2) I don't see the Sagem DTR6730T being mentioned as an alternative to the Humax and Topfield. Am I missing something? It looks to have good reviews by consumers on retailers websites. Competitively prices at £130 new. It used Freeview+ as EPG. I don't know much about it. Is it good and reliable? Does series linking work ok on Freeview+
So many questions, so little time!
Thanks
I consider the supplied Topfield software nearly unusable. It's just about good enough to call it a PVR but niggles everywhere.
Mystuff replaces the UI and EPG gathering, HDD caching, searching for programmes and inserting them into the native timer for recording. Pretty much every menu screen is replaced by a much more logical, better one. Ideas from users are taken on board. It's a shame manufacturers don't do the same.
Did Humax not sort their slow EPG problem and cache it on the hard disc with the latest software?
I have to get a box for my parents but fear the Topfield would be too complex for them.
Just ordered one too. Cheers for that!
If it stores the last x minutes in the same manner as the Digifusion then rewinding live TV should operate in exactly the same way! Doh! That's the trouble with relying on 'reviews' by owners who haven't actually grasped how to use the product properly.
That notwithstanding, the Argos unit (Alba rebranded version of the eBuyer TUTV unit) is a more recent model (945 vs 945R); the latter is fully Freeview+ compliant whereas the former is only 'partially' compliant, once again according to the unofficial support site.
I await with some eagerness the first reviews of the unit from fellow forum members!
But the Humax owners are now complaining about a new bug that this OAD has introduced and suggest holding off getting this update and waiting for the next one (whenever that might be) and just put up with the slow EPG in the meantime.
Personally, I have not experienced this latest issue. The patch was to mainly fix the perfornance issues with the boxes when they were first switched on. During the time the box was downloading the EPG (which can take several minutes), the box would be on a go-slow and appear to hang occasionally.
Humax decided to introduce the caching to HDD option, due to the increased time it took to load the EPG under the new code.
let you know how it goes.
I loved the 14 day EPG. And the whole thing worked really well.
Oh well. I'll try a Humax 9200T.
A sad day.
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/190768
Don't know if this is the improved version to the Luxor?
How can you tell if it is the T825 or T845R version?
I now have one of the Philips HD PVRs. PQ is great, software a bit buggy but usable.
That was my thinking. I picked up a 9200 on Ebay for sixty quid, and if it keeps me going for a year or two - till Freeview HD hits this area - that'll be fine.
So I am now the proud owner of:
- a Pace Twin
- an FVRT200
- an FVRT145
- a Thomson tits up box (don't ask!)
- and any day now, a 9200
If only I could merge them altogether, I'd have a digibox with 900Gb of storage and twelve tuners...
If I hadn’t rushed into buying this, maybe I would have gone with the Alba. Can anyone confirm the picture quality on this unit?
Picture quality on the Luxor is about the same as the FVRT (maybe a little poorer, but only marginally), but as long as it records OK and doesn’t develop any problems over the next couple of weeks then this will tide me over until a decent HD PVR presents itself.
More to follow once I've been using it a while.
Looks like repeat firmware updates are being broadcast next week for the 9200:
http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/download_schedule.php