First they dressed the Doctor as a clown, then they hired an actual clown.
I seem to remember a comedy sketch that had (I think) Mark Gatiss in it, where a similar comment was made. I think they used a different word to 'clown' though . .
I seem to remember a comedy sketch that had (I think) Mark Gatiss in it, where a similar comment was made. I think they used a different word to 'clown' though . .
I remember that. Unfortunately omitted from the rest of the sketches which I think are included with the Beginnings box set of DVD's (?) Apparently it caused some offence, can't imagine why
I remember that. Unfortunately omitted from the rest of the sketches which I think are included with the Beginnings box set of DVD's (?) Apparently it caused some offence, can't imagine why
Yeah, I think Gattis must cringe at that. Actually pretty certain the "any, um, 'clown' with an equity card' line referred to anyone cast as the Doctor post Tom. Bit awkward seeing as Peter D was in the 'kidnapped by obsessive fans' sketch. I might be misremembering; long time since I saw it. Think that's right though.
Yeah, I think Gattis must cringe at that. Actually pretty certain the "any, um, 'clown' with an equity card' line referred to anyone cast as the Doctor post Tom. Bit awkward seeing as Peter D was in the 'kidnapped by obsessive fans' sketch. I might be misremembering; long time since I saw it. Think that's right though.
And I am sure Colin Baker has actually referenced/complained about the sketch one way or another. Colin does seem quite happy to pipe up when he's not happy about things (like complaining about the lack of classic Doctors in the 50th anniversary special).
Might not be connected but I noted in a recent interview Steven Moffat gave, he spoke very fondly about what a nice chap Peter Davison is and how his son is now a huge Sylvester McCoy fan. No mention of Colin at all!
I have to agree. The writers had clearly mellowed his character by the start of Trial of a Timelord/The Mysterious Planet. There was a real gentle fondness between Peri and the Doctor by this stage. Although, to be honest, even in season 22 I don't think he and Peri had a horrible relationship. In Revelation of the Daleks, for instance, their arguing was written much more as comical bickering. And throughout that season there were many moments of quieter friendship.
I don't have an issue with people not liking the Sixth Doctor/Colin Baker(and his acting). If he's not to their tastes, like Nebo, that's just a opinion.
What I see time and time again on this forum are people with misconceptions about what happened with his Doctor. It's almost as if they think The Twin Dilemma is a benchmark for the whole Sixth Doctor's Era and if you watch it right through you can see it isn't.
People seem to think that he spent every episode being horrible to Peri, being generally unpleasant and shouting and strangling anything that moved. It really wasn't like that!
Season 22, the only story he got like that was Timelash and a lot of that was due to rewriting scripts to make them longer.
As you say, Season 23 was a considerable improvement. Baker and Bryant made the effort to improve the relationship between The Doctor and Peri onscreen and The Doctor himself was a lot less shouty and more humourous instead.
That isn't an opinion, it is fact and when people say he was horrible, I wonder if they've watched his full era at all, as the mellowing of his character is there for all to see.
Plus if you listen to just one BF Story, you'll see just how much more better he really is. No shouting, no strangling, much calmer and a thoroughly nice Doctor.
Plus if you listen to just one BF Story, you'll see just how much more better he really is. No shouting, no strangling, much calmer and a thoroughly nice Doctor.
To name drop; I once spent a lovely sunny day looking after Colin at a public event. He was an absolute charmer with everyone, even with the occasional clever dicks who said "Oh, I thought it was going to be TOM Baker" (which happened quite a few times, sadly).
And not once throughout that entire day did he shout at me or try to strangle me. Which I think proves the point once a for all.
I don't have an issue with people not liking the Sixth Doctor/Colin Baker(and his acting). If he's not to their tastes, like Nebo, that's just a opinion.
What I see time and time again on this forum are people with misconceptions about what happened with his Doctor. It's almost as if they think The Twin Dilemma is a benchmark for the whole Sixth Doctor's Era and if you watch it right through you can see it isn't.
People seem to think that he spent every episode being horrible to Peri, being generally unpleasant and shouting and strangling anything that moved. It really wasn't like that!
Season 22, the only story he got like that was Timelash and a lot of that was due to rewriting scripts to make them longer.
As you say, Season 23 was a considerable improvement. Baker and Bryant made the effort to improve the relationship between The Doctor and Peri onscreen and The Doctor himself was a lot less shouty and more humourous instead.
That isn't an opinion, it is fact and when people say he was horrible, I wonder if they've watched his full era at all, as the mellowing of his character is there for all to see.
Plus if you listen to just one BF Story, you'll see just how much more better he really is. No shouting, no strangling, much calmer and a thoroughly nice Doctor.
What you wrote reminds me of the way the First Doctor is often dismissed as a "grumpy old man", who was permanently prickly and cantankerous towards his companions.
I can only assume that those who hold this view haven't seen much of the First Doctor at all, but that is for another thread.
To name drop; I once spent a lovely sunny day looking after Colin at a public event. He was an absolute charmer with everyone, even with the occasional clever dicks who said "Oh, I thought it was going to be TOM Baker" (which happened quite a few times, sadly).
And not once throughout that entire day did he shout at me or try to strangle me. Which I think proves the point once a for all.
I've met him twice, about 20years apart. Once as a 15 year old fan backstage of the annual DW panto, where he stayed behind and chatted with us (4 young lads) for about an hour and then in a pub in Manchester where I bought him a beer. He was a diamond, a lovely man and actually remembered me from 20 years before because he fancied my mum, who was with me at that time lol, he remembered what she looked like but not me lol I still have the photo of that January evening in 1985. I met Ian Martyr, Anthony Ainley, Mary Tamm and Jaqueline Pearce that night too. Mary Tamm was very charming, Anthony Ainley very shy and Ian Martyr very Harry
What you wrote reminds me of the way the First Doctor is often dismissed as a "grumpy old man", who was permanently prickly and cantankerous towards his companions.
I can only assume that those who hold this view haven't seen much of the First Doctor at all, but that is for another thread.
I agree, have used your post as a basis for a new thread. Will be interesting to see what people think of the First Doctor but I agree, as with Colin Baker, they tend to see only the negative side of his Doctor.
I've met him twice, about 20years apart. Once as a 15 year old fan backstage of the annual DW panto, where he stayed behind and chatted with us (4 young lads) for about an hour and then in a pub in Manchester where I bought him a beer. He was a diamond, a lovely man and actually remembered me from 20 years before because he fancied my mum, who was with me at that time lol, he remembered what she looked like but not me lol I still have the photo of that January evening in 1985. I met Ian Martyr, Anthony Ainley, Mary Tamm and Jaqueline Pearce that night too. Mary Tamm was very charming, Anthony Ainley very shy and Ian Martyr very Harry
I've met him too, albeit very briefly, and he comes across as a genuinely nice fella.
They hired a comedian called Jon Pertwee to play the Doctor and you're having a go at McCoy? I'm glad you're not hypocritical.
Not in the slightest, there's a big difference. The problem isn't with hiring an actor known for comic roles. The problem was in hiring a clown. McCoy's main experience was in experimental theatre where he clowned around shoving nails up his nose and ferrets down his trousers, or impersonated hollywood clowns.
Had Pertwee not been a very good actor then I'd be posting on this forum that I thought he wasn't a good actor. But given that he played the Doctor very well, I don't. Where's the hypocrisy?
Pertwee was well aware of his reputation for comic roles and the producers and Pertwee thrashed that out when discussing how he would play the Doctor. That's why we got a serious man of action and not a comic, pratfalling around playing the spoons. He demonstrated from the get go that he had the range. Had they wanted a more comedic Doctor then they could have had that too (and occasionally did).
Not in the slightest, there's a big difference. The problem isn't with hiring an actor known for comic roles. The problem was in hiring a clown. McCoy's main experience was in experimental theatre where he clowned around shoving nails up his nose and ferrets down his trousers, or impersonated hollywood clowns.
Had Pertwee not been a very good actor then I'd be posting on this forum that I thought he wasn't a good actor. But given that he played the Doctor very well, I don't. Where's the hypocrisy?
Pertwee was well aware of his reputation for comic roles and the producers and Pertwee thrashed that out when discussing how he would play the Doctor. That's why we got a serious man of action and not a comic, pratfalling around playing the spoons. He demonstrated from the get go that he had the range. Had they wanted a more comedic Doctor then they could have had that too (and occasionally did).
Pertwee failing probably would have finished the series off. They were close to ending the show back in 69 had it not been for colour tv.
Seriously why do they do this to piss fans off and make them angry. Colins a bloody good actor!
Agreed, Colin Baker was badly served by the show. But the article was actually fairly balanced. Had I written it, as a fan since the 1960s, I should have been far more scathing. The McCoy era was the nadir of the classic years. It was a relief when the BBC put the show out of our misery. There isn't one McCoy story I'd want to watch again. There are actually very few I wouldn't want zapped out of existence.
They hired a comedian called Jon Pertwee to play the Doctor and you're having a go at McCoy? I'm glad you're not hypocritical.
Jon Pertwee was a comedian. Many great comedians make very fine actors. Sylvester McCoy was a clown. And a clown who couldn't act his way out of a degradable paper bag if it had been soaked overnight.
Agreed, Colin Baker was badly served by the show. But the article was actually fairly balanced. Had I written it, as a fan since the 1960s, I should have been far more scathing. The McCoy era was the nadir of the classic years. It was a relief when the BBC put the show out of our misery. There isn't one McCoy story I'd want to watch again. There are actually very few I wouldn't want zapped out of existence.
The 7th Doctor era left me cold at the time but since the late 80s I've come to revise my opinion of it somewhat. I now despise it so much that I wish they'd just pulled Doctor Who in 1985 like Michael Grade wanted. That would have at least saved Colin Baker the further ignominy that was heaped on him when he was fired instead of people who deserved it a lot more.
Agreed, Colin Baker was badly served by the show. But the article was actually fairly balanced. Had I written it, as a fan since the 1960s, I should have been far more scathing. The McCoy era was the nadir of the classic years. It was a relief when the BBC put the show out of our misery. There isn't one McCoy story I'd want to watch again. There are actually very few I wouldn't want zapped out of existence.
Poor you. Meanwhile us fans enjoy stories like Remembrance of the Daleks.
Not in the slightest, there's a big difference. The problem isn't with hiring an actor known for comic roles. The problem was in hiring a clown. McCoy's main experience was in experimental theatre where he clowned around shoving nails up his nose and ferrets down his trousers, or impersonated hollywood clowns.
No there isn't a difference, you're just showing bias because you don't like 80s Doctor Who. Both actors set out to entertain and provide humour. McCoy is a great actor and has shown it since, so what if he did light entertainment? Plus in some ways his acting was better because he got more technobabble to speak. The fact that he managed to do that doesn't seem to me a poor actor at all.
No there isn't a difference, you're just showing bias because you don't like 80s Doctor Who.
That's a rather circular argument - I'm biased against McCoy's acting because I don't think it's good, not because I'm searching for reasons to dislike 80s Who and can't think of anything else! There's a long list of other things I could have mentioned!
Pertwee was asked to play the Doctor as a serious man of action and made it fully believable. He was tender and caring as required and funny when needed. McCoy simply couldn't have done the same. The mere thought of McCoy's Doctor pulling off the sorts of scenes we got between the Doctor and the Brigadier or Roger Delgado's Master - ridiculous.
Both actors set out to entertain and provide humour. McCoy is a great actor and has shown it since, so what if he did light entertainment? Plus in some ways his acting was better because he got more technobabble to speak. The fact that he managed to do that doesn't seem to me a poor actor at all.
I'm not sure where McCoy has demonstrated the greatness of his acting? Was it in The Hobbit, where he was hired to play Radagast the Brown as a rather clownish puller of funny faces? In King Lear where he played The Fool, court clown? In The Mikado (he actually played the spoons, I kid you not)? He's got a limited range.
And as for technobabble - who do you think introduced "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" as a catchphrase? Are you really sure reading lines of technobabble is a test of great acting ability? Those sorts of lines are just trotted out by all the Doctor actors. McCoy's not especially famous for his abilities in that arena, is he?
I get it that you like his version of the Doctor. Good for you. I wouldn't want to persuade you otherwise. But your best argument is probably "I simply like him and his era" than persuading the world McCoy was the equal of prior Doctors in the acting chops department.
I can enjoy watching McCoy episodes, but I make allowances. Similar to how I give allowances to Hartnell's fluffing of lines and shonky special effects. But I don't argue that Hartnell didn't fluff lines or that the Myrka wasn't a pantomime horse.
I'm not sure where McCoy has demonstrated the greatness of his acting? Was it in The Hobbit, where he was hired to play Radagast the Brown as a rather clownish puller of funny faces? In King Lear where he played The Fool, court clown? In The Mikado (he actually played the spoons, I kid you not)? He's got a limited range.
And as for technobabble - who do you think introduced "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" as a catchphrase? Are you really sure reading lines of technobabble is a test of great acting ability? Those sorts of lines are just trotted out by all the Doctor actors. McCoy's not especially famous for his abilities in that arena, is he?
/QUOTE]
He hasn't got limited range. He can be serious when he needs to be. He's done comedy so obviously people write for him that way and why is that a big deal? Why is having a more comedy Doctor a bad thing? Kids my age loved that. Also yes a good actor is required to remember extremely complicated dialogue and McCoy's done that. The whole Pertwee "Reverse the Polarity line" was his excuse for technobabble when he couldn't a) remember standard lines or b) difficult to remember the actual more complicated technobabble on the page.
Comments
I seem to remember a comedy sketch that had (I think) Mark Gatiss in it, where a similar comment was made. I think they used a different word to 'clown' though . .
I remember that. Unfortunately omitted from the rest of the sketches which I think are included with the Beginnings box set of DVD's (?) Apparently it caused some offence, can't imagine why
Yeah, I think Gattis must cringe at that. Actually pretty certain the "any, um, 'clown' with an equity card' line referred to anyone cast as the Doctor post Tom. Bit awkward seeing as Peter D was in the 'kidnapped by obsessive fans' sketch. I might be misremembering; long time since I saw it. Think that's right though.
And I am sure Colin Baker has actually referenced/complained about the sketch one way or another. Colin does seem quite happy to pipe up when he's not happy about things (like complaining about the lack of classic Doctors in the 50th anniversary special).
Might not be connected but I noted in a recent interview Steven Moffat gave, he spoke very fondly about what a nice chap Peter Davison is and how his son is now a huge Sylvester McCoy fan. No mention of Colin at all!
I don't have an issue with people not liking the Sixth Doctor/Colin Baker(and his acting). If he's not to their tastes, like Nebo, that's just a opinion.
What I see time and time again on this forum are people with misconceptions about what happened with his Doctor. It's almost as if they think The Twin Dilemma is a benchmark for the whole Sixth Doctor's Era and if you watch it right through you can see it isn't.
People seem to think that he spent every episode being horrible to Peri, being generally unpleasant and shouting and strangling anything that moved. It really wasn't like that!
Season 22, the only story he got like that was Timelash and a lot of that was due to rewriting scripts to make them longer.
As you say, Season 23 was a considerable improvement. Baker and Bryant made the effort to improve the relationship between The Doctor and Peri onscreen and The Doctor himself was a lot less shouty and more humourous instead.
That isn't an opinion, it is fact and when people say he was horrible, I wonder if they've watched his full era at all, as the mellowing of his character is there for all to see.
Plus if you listen to just one BF Story, you'll see just how much more better he really is. No shouting, no strangling, much calmer and a thoroughly nice Doctor.
To name drop; I once spent a lovely sunny day looking after Colin at a public event. He was an absolute charmer with everyone, even with the occasional clever dicks who said "Oh, I thought it was going to be TOM Baker" (which happened quite a few times, sadly).
And not once throughout that entire day did he shout at me or try to strangle me. Which I think proves the point once a for all.
What you wrote reminds me of the way the First Doctor is often dismissed as a "grumpy old man", who was permanently prickly and cantankerous towards his companions.
I can only assume that those who hold this view haven't seen much of the First Doctor at all, but that is for another thread.
I've met him twice, about 20years apart. Once as a 15 year old fan backstage of the annual DW panto, where he stayed behind and chatted with us (4 young lads) for about an hour and then in a pub in Manchester where I bought him a beer. He was a diamond, a lovely man and actually remembered me from 20 years before because he fancied my mum, who was with me at that time lol, he remembered what she looked like but not me lol I still have the photo of that January evening in 1985. I met Ian Martyr, Anthony Ainley, Mary Tamm and Jaqueline Pearce that night too. Mary Tamm was very charming, Anthony Ainley very shy and Ian Martyr very Harry
I agree, have used your post as a basis for a new thread. Will be interesting to see what people think of the First Doctor but I agree, as with Colin Baker, they tend to see only the negative side of his Doctor.
I've met him too, albeit very briefly, and he comes across as a genuinely nice fella.
Had Pertwee not been a very good actor then I'd be posting on this forum that I thought he wasn't a good actor. But given that he played the Doctor very well, I don't. Where's the hypocrisy?
Pertwee was well aware of his reputation for comic roles and the producers and Pertwee thrashed that out when discussing how he would play the Doctor. That's why we got a serious man of action and not a comic, pratfalling around playing the spoons. He demonstrated from the get go that he had the range. Had they wanted a more comedic Doctor then they could have had that too (and occasionally did).
Pertwee failing probably would have finished the series off. They were close to ending the show back in 69 had it not been for colour tv.
Agreed, Colin Baker was badly served by the show. But the article was actually fairly balanced. Had I written it, as a fan since the 1960s, I should have been far more scathing. The McCoy era was the nadir of the classic years. It was a relief when the BBC put the show out of our misery. There isn't one McCoy story I'd want to watch again. There are actually very few I wouldn't want zapped out of existence.
Jon Pertwee was a comedian. Many great comedians make very fine actors. Sylvester McCoy was a clown. And a clown who couldn't act his way out of a degradable paper bag if it had been soaked overnight.
The 7th Doctor era left me cold at the time but since the late 80s I've come to revise my opinion of it somewhat. I now despise it so much that I wish they'd just pulled Doctor Who in 1985 like Michael Grade wanted. That would have at least saved Colin Baker the further ignominy that was heaped on him when he was fired instead of people who deserved it a lot more.
Pertwee was asked to play the Doctor as a serious man of action and made it fully believable. He was tender and caring as required and funny when needed. McCoy simply couldn't have done the same. The mere thought of McCoy's Doctor pulling off the sorts of scenes we got between the Doctor and the Brigadier or Roger Delgado's Master - ridiculous. I'm not sure where McCoy has demonstrated the greatness of his acting? Was it in The Hobbit, where he was hired to play Radagast the Brown as a rather clownish puller of funny faces? In King Lear where he played The Fool, court clown? In The Mikado (he actually played the spoons, I kid you not)? He's got a limited range.
And as for technobabble - who do you think introduced "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" as a catchphrase? Are you really sure reading lines of technobabble is a test of great acting ability? Those sorts of lines are just trotted out by all the Doctor actors. McCoy's not especially famous for his abilities in that arena, is he?
I get it that you like his version of the Doctor. Good for you. I wouldn't want to persuade you otherwise. But your best argument is probably "I simply like him and his era" than persuading the world McCoy was the equal of prior Doctors in the acting chops department.
I can enjoy watching McCoy episodes, but I make allowances. Similar to how I give allowances to Hartnell's fluffing of lines and shonky special effects. But I don't argue that Hartnell didn't fluff lines or that the Myrka wasn't a pantomime horse.
Best ever Dalek story!
I certainly don't. Except for most of the bits with Daleks in them.