When I researched my family history it took me two years to find the correct personwho was my gt gt grandfather. I did all thecking through from parish registers and census information but the day that I received his death certificate I actually cried as though he was someone that I really knew.
It's amazing how wrapped up you can get in someone's life. Have people never watched Who Do You Thnk You Are and seen how emotional people get over the story of the people in their own families?
Richard had become real to her in the same way as her fmaily and friends and she wept for him as she would have done for one of them.
Researching family history is a very emotional thing and I can totally understand her weeping. The way people are going on here you'd think she was having hysterics about it.
I VBoxed it but watched the last half hour, and felt the choice of a comedic actor from Horrible Histories and Mighty Boosh as presenter was a particularly lousy one as he didn't have enough gravitas for the subject. His bloody hair was a distraction as well.:D
I thought the documentary was quite good and when she realised that he was a hunch back and her face at the realisation that perhaps the Tudor stuff was not propaganda but real after all was good. The trouble is all the evidence shows he did order the killing of the princes in the tower and the documentary showed tudor accounts were more accurate then thought.
It was stated that there is NO evidence at all that he ordered the murder of his nephews.
It looks from this as if he did but I can't help remembering Josephine Tey's research which stated that the boys were illegitimate and therefore had no claim to the throne so they weren't a threat to Richard. They were, however, a threat to the legitimacy of Henry's position. Interesting.....
Also in those days the Tower was no always a prison but frequently housed royalty for protection.
The trouble with Philippa's histrionics is that on every occasion, you can imagine her saying, "Can we do that again please? I don't think I put quite enough awe/weeping/emotion into it. Do you think it would help if I actually fainted or frothed at the mouth?"
The trouble with Philippa's histrionics is that on every occasion, you can imagine her saying, "Can we do that again please? I don't think I put quite enough awe/weeping/emotion into it. Do you think it would help if I actually fainted or frothed at the mouth?"
Sorry - but that's rubbish.
For someone who had invested years of research and interest in him, she showed quite a lot of restraint imo. She was the antidote to all the scientific part of the doc in that she gave a human reaction to the finding of Richard rather than the objective.
The mad Phillipa who funded the whole thing - not personally you know - had the right to be emotional, yes. But not in the theatrical swooning kind of way! Most people would be laughing and smiling like they'd just won the lottery - I know I would be!
As for the nonsense about "I just knew he was here, there was even an R written on the ground"... it was a car park, there was probably an S right next to it and a bit further along a T!
I'm also a bit sceptical about this DNA test... if a paternity test is 99% accurate, water it all down several generations and what would the accuracy be then? Hmmm....
Sorry - but that's rubbish.
For someone who had invested years of research and interest in him, she showed quite a lot of restraint imo. She was the antidote to all the scientific part of the doc in that she gave a human reaction to the finding of Richard rather than the objective.
Totally agree.
Why is everyone having a go at Philippa? Farnaby and his damned hair were far more annoying for me.
The mad Phillipa who funded the whole thing - not personally you know - had the right to be emotional, yes. But not in the theatrical swooning kind of way! Most people would be laughing and smiling like they'd just won the lottery - I know I would be!
As for the nonsense about "I just knew he was here, there was even an R written on the ground"... it was a car park, there was probably an S right next to it and a bit further along a T!
I'm also a bit sceptical about this DNA test... if a paternity test is 99% accurate, water it all down several generations and what would the accuracy be then? Hmmm....
She appeared more upset that he had a deformed spine, when she and others in the society had built this image of a perfect specimen of manhood. Their fantasy was crushed.
I wondered the same about the DNA but then I'm not a scientist and have no idea how they explain this.
I've also always been a bit dubious about carbon dating.
Why is everyone having a go at Philippa? Farnaby and his damned hair were far more annoying for me.
I have said earlier on in the thread at times i thought i and one or two others were the only ones sticking up for her.
After all she has done years of resaerch and funded the whole did without which we would not be having this discussion most likey.:)
Koiln Klingon earlier in this thread was most vocal with his p-ss taking of the show, but when i pointed out to him there was a serious documentary with David Starkey on channel more 4 covering this period he went all quite,i get the feeling he was just trolling the thread for a wind up with some of his comments.:)
I have said earlier on in the thread at times i thought i and one or two others were the only ones sticking up for her.
After all she has done years of resaerch and funded the whole did without which we would not be having this discussin most likey.:)
Koiln Klingon earlier in this thread was most voceferous with his p-ss taking of the show, but when i pointed out to him there was a serious documentary with David Starkey on channel more 4 covering this period he went all quite,i get the feeling he was just trolling the thread for a wind up with some of his coments.:)
I wish you'd stop saying this, she did not personally fund it, she helped raise the money for the dig.
Personally I don't think she did her society any favours, she and the few others featured made them appear a bunch of nutters, when I suspect many of them are not.
I wish you'd stop saying this, she did not personally fund it, she helped raise the money for the dig.
Personally I don't think she did her society any favours, she and the few others featured made them appear a bunch of nutters, when I suspect many of them are not.
Then my freind you and i will have to agree to disagree.:)
However she raised the money for the dig and i for one am very happy that has now happend histrionics or not the all important discovery has now been made.
And why should in the event of many hurtful and some downright nasty comments aimed at her on D/S not have some appeciation of the real story here,my own view on the progamme was wrong presenter Tony Robinson would have been far better,as he eeks enthusiasm and would have been a lot better with Philippa.
Also channel; 4 were to blame for the editing that made people look bad not the people themselves but there you go.:).
Then my freind you and i will have to agree to disagree.:)
However she raised the money for the dig and i for one an very happy that has now happend histrionics or not the all important discovery has now been made.
And why should in the event of many hurtful and some downright nasty comments aimed at her on D/S not have some appeciation of the real story here,my own view on the progamme was wrong presenter Tony Robinson would have been far better,as he eeks enthusiasm and would have been a lot better with Philippa.
Also channel; 4 were to blame for the editing that made people look bad not the people themselves but there you go.:).
I agree. I don't think she was as bad as what some people on this thread have made out, neither was the presenter. I bit of an overreaction, I think, but as already mentioned that seems to be all part and parcel of these forums.
I wondered the same about the DNA but then I'm not a scientist and have no idea how they explain this.
I've also always been a bit dubious about carbon dating.
It's all about mitochondrial DNA
The DNA used to identify Richard's remains was mitochondrial DNA, stored in mitochondria -- the tiny powerhouses where energy is made in cells. Mitochondrial DNA is passed down directly from mother to child and mutates very, very slowly over time. For this reason, Nelson said, scientists have been able to use it to look far back into human history, revealing migration patterns and the like. (Another reason human geneticists like studying mitochondrial DNA, he added: It is also far more abundant in human cells than nuclear DNA is, and thus easier to recover from degraded ancient remains.)
In Richard III's case, geneticists were able to examine the mitrochondrial DNA of two living people who were known to have descended, through their mothers' mothers, from the king's sister Anne. After showing that the two individuals shared a "relatively rare" pattern in their mitochondrial DNA, the team recovered mitochondrial DNA from the excavated bones and showed that the skeleton's owner, too, shared that DNA sequence.
That is consistent with the skeleton being Richard III's. "If they don't match, it's not Richard," Nelson said.
Oddly earlier in the day she came across exactly the same live on the BBC News channel.
Yes i saw that whats wrong with a bit of emotion for years of work.?
As has been pointed out i watch sky sports and see fans blubbing at football matches but then i guess thats ok because its football full of emotion ect ect,nothing gets said about fans crying there though.:)
Then my freind you and i will have to agree to disagree.:)
However she raised the money for the dig and i for one am very happy that has now happend histrionics or not the all important discovery has now been made.
And why should in the event of many hurtful and some downright nasty comments aimed at her on D/S not have some appeciation of the real story here,my own view on the progamme was wrong presenter Tony Robinson would have been far better,as he eeks enthusiasm and would have been a lot better with Philippa.
Also channel; 4 were to blame for the editing that made people look bad not the people themselves but there you go.:).
Tony Robinson imo would have been just as bad, I switch off when he appears.
Tony Robinson imo would have been just as bad, I switch off when he appears.
Thats fair enough i take it you do not watch Time Team then which is a shame as they have made some marvellous programmes over the years.
Tony Robinson i think though would have been far more sympathetic to the show being an "amateur", the shows Presenter Simon Farnaby waas too much of an academic whom i could not easily connect with.:)
Thats fair enough i take it you do not watch Time Team then which is a shame as they have made some marvellous programmes over the years.
No I've watched them, they were very good when they first started but as the years went on became more ridiculous with their computer generated images based on very flimsy evidence.
Between that and Tony Robinson I finally turned off and am not upset that they have now pulled the plug.
No I've watched them, they were very good when they first started but as the years went on became more ridiculous with their computer generated images based on very flimsy evidence.
Between that and Tony Robinson I finally turned off and am not upset that they have now pulled the plug.
I quite liked the computer generated images for me it bought to life what it may have been like in all those years ago,course you or i have no idea if this is accurate or not but for me it bought the era to life.
However i cannot agree that a show which up until the last couple of series which were truly dumbed down was excellent,and i for one am sorry that the only educational show of its kind on TV has been pulled,still i suppose it makes way for more cookery shows and my fat gypsy garbage which is very sad.:)
I think the problem was that Philippa seemed to be under the impression that the programme was more about her than the dig. All of her emotional outbursts were blatantly rehearsed and most certainly not a record of her spontaneous reactions.
Channel 4 had what would probably have been their biggest viewing figures for a decade, with the chance of very substantial overseas sales - and they blew it in a big way. This deserved the Horizon treatment, rather than this dumbed down "Digging Up Richard" sitcom. It wouldn't have surprised me in the least if it had all ended with them sitting around the bones in a circle, holding a seance.
I also wondered what the point was in the facial reconstruction, as we already know what he looked like. I can just imagine them striving to make sure that it looked similar to the portrait, but with just sufficient differences to make it look as if it was done without influence and bias.
Yes i saw that whats wrong with a bit of emotion for years of work.?
As has been pointed out i watch sky sports and see fans blubbing at football matches but then i guess thats ok because its football full of emotion ect ect,nothing gets said about fans crying there though.:)
On the news programme she was demanding for the 'facts' to be told as if she knew them and others didn't know what they were talking about, she came across as a sort of David Icke.
Some of her 'facts' were blown out of the water by example the curvature of the spine. From the conversations we saw with other members of the Richard III Society, I can understand why the programme makers included her so much.
I believe if she had not been included throughout a 'conspiracy theory' probably would have arisen, by taking her along and getting her to accept evidence that overturned her 'facts' there was no wiggle room for the Richard III Society.
BUT, give it a month or two and they'll come up with some undisclosed 'facts' that gets their theories make on track.
Comments
Researching family history is a very emotional thing and I can totally understand her weeping. The way people are going on here you'd think she was having hysterics about it.
I VBoxed it but watched the last half hour, and felt the choice of a comedic actor from Horrible Histories and Mighty Boosh as presenter was a particularly lousy one as he didn't have enough gravitas for the subject. His bloody hair was a distraction as well.:D
It looks from this as if he did but I can't help remembering Josephine Tey's research which stated that the boys were illegitimate and therefore had no claim to the throne so they weren't a threat to Richard. They were, however, a threat to the legitimacy of Henry's position. Interesting.....
Also in those days the Tower was no always a prison but frequently housed royalty for protection.
For someone who had invested years of research and interest in him, she showed quite a lot of restraint imo. She was the antidote to all the scientific part of the doc in that she gave a human reaction to the finding of Richard rather than the objective.
As for the nonsense about "I just knew he was here, there was even an R written on the ground"... it was a car park, there was probably an S right next to it and a bit further along a T!
I'm also a bit sceptical about this DNA test... if a paternity test is 99% accurate, water it all down several generations and what would the accuracy be then? Hmmm....
Totally agree.
Why is everyone having a go at Philippa? Farnaby and his damned hair were far more annoying for me.
She appeared more upset that he had a deformed spine, when she and others in the society had built this image of a perfect specimen of manhood. Their fantasy was crushed.
I wondered the same about the DNA but then I'm not a scientist and have no idea how they explain this.
I've also always been a bit dubious about carbon dating.
I have said earlier on in the thread at times i thought i and one or two others were the only ones sticking up for her.
After all she has done years of resaerch and funded the whole did without which we would not be having this discussion most likey.:)
Koiln Klingon earlier in this thread was most vocal with his p-ss taking of the show, but when i pointed out to him there was a serious documentary with David Starkey on channel more 4 covering this period he went all quite,i get the feeling he was just trolling the thread for a wind up with some of his comments.:)
I wish you'd stop saying this, she did not personally fund it, she helped raise the money for the dig.
Personally I don't think she did her society any favours, she and the few others featured made them appear a bunch of nutters, when I suspect many of them are not.
Then my freind you and i will have to agree to disagree.:)
However she raised the money for the dig and i for one am very happy that has now happend histrionics or not the all important discovery has now been made.
And why should in the event of many hurtful and some downright nasty comments aimed at her on D/S not have some appeciation of the real story here,my own view on the progamme was wrong presenter Tony Robinson would have been far better,as he eeks enthusiasm and would have been a lot better with Philippa.
Also channel; 4 were to blame for the editing that made people look bad not the people themselves but there you go.:).
I agree. I don't think she was as bad as what some people on this thread have made out, neither was the presenter. I bit of an overreaction, I think, but as already mentioned that seems to be all part and parcel of these forums.
It's all about mitochondrial DNA
Oddly earlier in the day she came across exactly the same live on the BBC News channel.
Yes i saw that whats wrong with a bit of emotion for years of work.?
As has been pointed out i watch sky sports and see fans blubbing at football matches but then i guess thats ok because its football full of emotion ect ect,nothing gets said about fans crying there though.:)
Tony Robinson imo would have been just as bad, I switch off when he appears.
Thank you for that, it explains it far more than the appalling documentary did last night.
Actually if anyone was done a disservice in that programme it was the scientists that lost out.
Thats fair enough i take it you do not watch Time Team then which is a shame as they have made some marvellous programmes over the years.
Tony Robinson i think though would have been far more sympathetic to the show being an "amateur", the shows Presenter Simon Farnaby waas too much of an academic whom i could not easily connect with.:)
No I've watched them, they were very good when they first started but as the years went on became more ridiculous with their computer generated images based on very flimsy evidence.
Between that and Tony Robinson I finally turned off and am not upset that they have now pulled the plug.
Andrew Marszal reviews Richard III: the King in the Car Park, Channel 4's documentary following the discovery of the Middle Age monarch's lost bones.
I quite liked the computer generated images for me it bought to life what it may have been like in all those years ago,course you or i have no idea if this is accurate or not but for me it bought the era to life.
However i cannot agree that a show which up until the last couple of series which were truly dumbed down was excellent,and i for one am sorry that the only educational show of its kind on TV has been pulled,still i suppose it makes way for more cookery shows and my fat gypsy garbage which is very sad.:)
Channel 4 had what would probably have been their biggest viewing figures for a decade, with the chance of very substantial overseas sales - and they blew it in a big way. This deserved the Horizon treatment, rather than this dumbed down "Digging Up Richard" sitcom. It wouldn't have surprised me in the least if it had all ended with them sitting around the bones in a circle, holding a seance.
I also wondered what the point was in the facial reconstruction, as we already know what he looked like. I can just imagine them striving to make sure that it looked similar to the portrait, but with just sufficient differences to make it look as if it was done without influence and bias.
I thought the line about the unlucky monk was quite funny too.
On the news programme she was demanding for the 'facts' to be told as if she knew them and others didn't know what they were talking about, she came across as a sort of David Icke.
Some of her 'facts' were blown out of the water by example the curvature of the spine. From the conversations we saw with other members of the Richard III Society, I can understand why the programme makers included her so much.
I believe if she had not been included throughout a 'conspiracy theory' probably would have arisen, by taking her along and getting her to accept evidence that overturned her 'facts' there was no wiggle room for the Richard III Society.
BUT, give it a month or two and they'll come up with some undisclosed 'facts' that gets their theories make on track.
Wouldn't you request anonymity?
I can just imagine Philipa and her cohorts stalking you forever more!