Is Boris a tax evader ?

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  • ecco66ecco66 Posts: 16,117
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    Majlis wrote: »
    Its the fee for the paperwork.

    Forbes
    Thanks, the last ones I was involved with were prior to April so I missed that hike. They've also hiked the fees for immediate relative preference immigrants.

    Still, there's nothing about USG preventing anyone from doing so, and there's certainly nothing implied about them being at risk in doing so in an overseas diplomatic mission.

    It is by no means difficult.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    Can Boris become Prime Minister? We would have someone who is a citizen of another country and hence owes loyalty to another sovereign power. This could result in a perceived conflict of interest.

    I think he should go through the formalities to renounce his US citizenship. Why does he want to keep it anyway?
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    Can Boris become Prime Minister? We would have someone who is a citizen of another country and hence owes loyalty to another sovereign power. This could result in a perceived conflict of interest.

    I think he should go through the formalities to renounce his US citizenship. Why does he want to keep it anyway?

    Why shouldn't he? It makes it easier for him to travel and do business in America.
  • DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't he? It makes it easier for him to travel and do business in America.

    Matthew 22:20-22 'Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's'

    If he wants to be able to travel and do business in America by having a US passport then he pays his US posed taxes
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't he? It makes it easier for him to travel and do business in America.
    It's the principle of owing divided loyalties. Would you be equally happy with someone with Chinese citizenship running the country?

    The USA itself doesn't allow anyone of foreign birth to become President, even if they acquire citizenship.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,649
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    Its even worse than that - it can apply to people who have never been to the US in their lives if a parent is American

    Maybe the UK should start taxing British passport holders who live in Spain, Australia and other countries. I wonder how popular that would be with ex-pats?
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    It's the principle of owing divided loyalties. Would you be equally happy with someone with Chinese citizenship running the country?

    The USA itself doesn't allow anyone of foreign birth to become President, even if they acquire citizenship.

    You're forgetting that both of his parents are British. He's perfectly entitled to UK citizenship as well.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,649
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    Can Boris become Prime Minister? We would have someone who is a citizen of another country and hence owes loyalty to another sovereign power. This could result in a perceived conflict of interest.

    Winston Churchill was half American - although he didn't become an American citizen until he was granted honoury citizenship by JFK.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Maybe the UK should start taxing British passport holders who live in Spain, Australia and other countries. I wonder how popular that would be with ex-pats?

    It's one way to deal with the deficit.

    Many in the EU will probably give up British citizenship , as being a French, Spanish or other EU citizen still gives them the right to enter and live freely in the UK, so ther would be no practical difference. Those in non-EU countries eg Canada, US, Aus etc will have to make a decision. It seems strange for people to hold on to citizenship of their birth or former residence if they have no intention to ever return. Some may argue its a sign of refusal to fully 'integrate' :confused:

    That said there are many people who do intend to return to their native country eventually even if they left decades ago.

    For the UK there's also the complication that British nationality isn't just British citizenship - there are also Overseas classes of British nationality - should they have to pay UK taxation too?
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    It's the principle of owing divided loyalties. Would you be equally happy with someone with Chinese citizenship running the country?

    The USA itself doesn't allow anyone of foreign birth to become President, even if they acquire citizenship.

    Of both of his parents are British and he has spent the vast majority of his life here he obviously considers himself primarily British.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    You're forgetting that both of his parents are British. He's perfectly entitled to UK citizenship as well.

    So he should give up his US citizenship, if he refuses to pay up. No taxation without representation... No representation without taxation.
  • DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Winston Churchill was half American - although he didn't become an American citizen until he was granted honoury citizenship by JFK.

    He wasn't entitled to US citizen by birth though. He was born in the UK and his mother could not pass her citizenship to him.

    Boris was born in the U S A so is American from birth
  • MTUK1MTUK1 Posts: 20,077
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    So he should give up his US citizenship, if he refuses to pay up. No taxation without representation... No representation without taxation.

    The US rules are out of order. I am pretty sure no other country taxes income of their citizens who live overseas.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    Of both of his parents are British and he has spent the vast majority of his life here he obviously considers himself primarily British.

    Yes but he is also a US citizen. As such the US government considers him subject to their jurisdiction and oath of loyalty to the American Constitution. The US does not recognise dual nationality.

    Therefore in the (albeit highly unlikely) event of conflict between the US and Britain, or even if he acts in any way against US interests in favour of Britain, he could be guilty of treason there punishable by prison or execution.
  • DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    Yes but he is also a US citizen. As such the US government considers him subject to their jurisdiction and oath of loyalty to the American Constitution. The US does not recognise dual nationality.

    Therefore in the (albeit highly unlikely) event of conflict between the US and Britain, or even if he acts in any way against US interests in favour of Britain, he could be guilty of treason there punishable by prison or execution.

    US does recognise dual nationality whether by accident of birth or VI's naturalisation
  • DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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    MTUK1 wrote: »
    The US rules are out of order. I am pretty sure no other country taxes income of their citizens who live overseas.

    Whilst they are out of order and unique to the US (sounds familar) it does not affect the fact that Boris has to keep to US law regarding tax
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,649
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    It's one way to deal with the deficit.

    Many in the EU will probably give up British citizenship , as being a French, Spanish or other EU citizen still gives them the right to enter and live freely in the UK, so ther would be no practical difference. Those in non-EU countries eg Canada, US, Aus etc will have to make a decision. It seems strange for people to hold on to citizenship of their birth or former residence if they have no intention to ever return. Some may argue its a sign of refusal to fully 'integrate' :confused:

    Of the people I know who have emigrated some have taken out new citizenship, some haven't. Each has their own reasons. I have one friend who has worked in the US for over 20 years and has only recently, and reluctantly, taken out citizenship "for tax reasons". He took the oath with his fingers crossed behind his back.

    In the US, they make you renounce your British citizenship however it is meaningless as you will always be entitled to a British passport even if you have sworn allegiance to Uncle Sam.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    US does recognise dual nationality whether by accident of birth or VI's naturalisation

    As LostFool pointed out, the US requires renunciation of existing citizenship before acquisition of US citizenship, which suggests that strictly speaking they don't. Although they may turn a blind eye to those who re-acquire previous nationality (eg Britain allows you to reacquire British citizenship after renouncing, although I think you are limited to be allowed to do so only once). However, as also mentioned, they require those with dual nationality to enter the US on their US passport only - in keeping with officially not recognising any other citizenship.
  • LyricalisLyricalis Posts: 57,958
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    He should join ISIL. Fewer forms to fill out.
  • davzerdavzer Posts: 2,501
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    Is this Boris' tactic to get the US embassy to pay up its congestion charges?
  • KiteviewKiteview Posts: 9,246
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    As LostFool pointed out, the US requires renunciation of existing citizenship before acquisition of US citizenship, which suggests that strictly speaking they don't.

    That's true. Apparently though, you can acquire US citizenship and then immediately contact your embassy of origin (e.g. The UK) to get a new passport from your embassy (which you are perfectly entitled to do under the laws of most, but not all, countries). :-)
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