... Which should serve to dismiss those who said "Hurt's role was not originally planned for Eccleston"... Is was.
Anyhow, Hurt did a great job, and far more accomplished than a gurning self important luvvie such as CE, who didn't have the intelligence to realise how important the 50th anniversary was to fans and the industry, to recognise some input in one of TVs greatest shows to have impacted society. He didn't even do a quick "good luck all" video. What a poor show from the lad.
The original script must have had a major rewrite then plus it seems they were putting the lost Doctor hints in for about 2 years so they wouldn't have made much sense in fact not much of it would at all with a Doctor we already knew about.
So in the end it was for the best CE didn't want to do it as I don't think it would have turned out so good with him been The War Doctor
... Which should serve to dismiss those who said "Hurt's role was not originally planned for Eccleston"...
Well, not quite.
Although clearly Moffat initially planned to use the NuWho Three Doctors, it's also clear that very early on in the planning that CE wouldn't be involved. Moffat knew it was unlikely that CE would want to rejoin the show, so he already had a contingency story. As Moffat says, he couldn't imagine PM being the Time War Doctor, and CE seemed to be almost brand new in Rose, so Moffat went with an idea he'd been toying with for ages, namely a hitherto unknown incarnation of the Doctor. I suspect that the anniversary story would have been very different if CE had been involved. The later creation of the War Doctor allowed Moffat to tell a very different sort of tale.
So whilst we may not have had Hurt if CE had signed up, it's clear that CE's role was not simply recast as Hurt, more that the whole thrust of the story had to be reworked to incorporate Hurt's character when CE dropped out.
I never see the word "gurning" outside of these forums, and it's an insult aimed at anybody a forum member happens to dislike, regardless of whether it's an appropriate description.
Anyway, this thread is going to go the way of every other thread regarding Eccleston's involvement of the fiftieth. Outrage that an actor who has the freedom to pick and choose parts dare to do just that and not live his life according to the wishes of fans of a tv show he acted in 8 years ago.
John Hurt did a more than brilliant job, but with subsequent rewatches I cannot help but feel that Eccleston is what was missing from The Day of the Doctor. Sure, I have plenty of issues with the episode (I thought it was average, to be honest) but I think my biggest is Eccleston's absence...and not just because he's my favourite Doctor.
Do I hold Eccleston to blame for that? Not at all. He's NOT the fictional character we see on screen, he's a real person with a life and with professional decisions to make. And aside from the fact that I praise him for sticking to his guns and not showing up, I would also add that I think with the plot for the episode, he was best off steering clear. The Day of the Doctor was so contrasting with what the Ninth Doctor was all about and it was a real shame to see that whole Time War element rewritten. Given that it was nearly a decade ago that we watched the Ninth Doctor though, we have to get over it and deal with the fact the show has moved on... just as Eccles has, and as a lot of selfish fans should when they criticise him.
I was in the minority that didn't want a Multi-Doctor special for the Anniversary. A show as huge, clever and open to new ideas as Doctor Who had endless potential to pull off something far more refreshing. I stick by that opinion now, perhaps because I really don't care for Tennant's Doctor at all, but also because it just feels like a lazy stunt... as would including Eccleston in the story we were given.
Yes, there was lots I loved about The Day of the Doctor.
Yes, I would have absolutely loved to have seen Eccleston back.
Yes, I was disappointed to not see him back.
And yes, I also understand why he didn't come back, and agree with why as well.
... Which should serve to dismiss those who said "Hurt's role was not originally planned for Eccleston"... Is was.
Anyhow, Hurt did a great job, and far more accomplished than a gurning self important luvvie such as CE, who didn't have the intelligence to realise how important the 50th anniversary was to fans and the industry, to recognise some input in one of TVs greatest shows to have impacted society. He didn't even do a quick "good luck all" video. What a poor show from the lad.
Or he doesn't place a TV show on a ridiculous pedestal like some fans.
YOU may feel the show is important, he clearly sees it as another job.
And he did send a message along to the BFI or whatever event it was.
Your patronising tone towards a man 31 years your senior is also hilarious.
I think it could have been interesting to see him in it but as other people have said, it's his choice. I don't think his fears about being typecast were too much to worry about, as even though Tennant has played similar roles, he's done a variety of roles.
I think it could have been interesting to see him in it but as other people have said, it's his choice. I don't think his fears about being typecast were too much to worry about, as even though Tennant has played similar roles, he's done a variety of roles.
I think the typecast stuff was just "the line" used at the time of his exit, I think it's clear his exit had nothing to do with that.
I would love Chris to have been part of the 50th. I missed his Doctor and think it's a real shame he wasn't there. But, at the end of the day, it's his choice and he shouldn't be vilified for making it.
I did think his Doctor was a noticeable absentee from the eventual Hurt multi-doctor storyline.
When The Moment tells Hurt "these are the men you will become", having Ecclestone there, as a Doctor who was visibly more affected by the Time War than 10 & 11, would have packed even more of an emotional punch.
Eccleston has always been his own man. Passionate, serious, and entirely his own man! I remember he quit cracker (bear in mind what a huge hit it was at the time) and the only way they managed to invite his character back was by writing the astonishing episode that saw him being murdered! This is the man he is. I utterly respect him for it. It should have come as no surprise that he wasn't interested in returning to the show. I for one wasn't disappointed. I am more than happy with the anniversary episode. From a completist point of view I understand people's grumbles but quite frankly John Hurt was brilliant and moving...
I still believe that Paul McGann would've been better in the War Doctor role and I disagree with Moffat's comments on not seeing him as that character. The Night of the Doctor showed he could've done it easily.
That would've been even better - the Eighth Doctor seeing his future in Nine, Ten and Eleven. Completeness!
"The Moment" being Rose makes a hell of a lot more sense if it was Chris rather than Hurt in the role.
I'd rather it had been someone like Sarah Jane, (if possible, obviously), the fact we didn't get any more "real" Rose was one of the few negatives of DOTD for me, particularly when the publicity machine went very OTT about Billie's return.
But It's just a TV show and the people that act in it, bar one or two exceptions, don't share the devotion of those who watch it so they don't see it from our distorted viewpoint.
I can sense Chris being the Tom Baker of this generation (lets hope he makes a cameo in his 70s then ) whereas despite having equally successful careers, David and Matt showing up a bit more occasionally than once every 30 years or so
I still believe that Paul McGann would've been better in the War Doctor role and I disagree with Moffat's comments on not seeing him as that character. The Night of the Doctor showed he could've done it easily.
That would've been even better - the Eighth Doctor seeing his future in Nine, Ten and Eleven. Completeness!
McGann should never have been the War Doctor, he is a peaceful Doctor and would never ever have pressed that button. Night of the Doctor didn't show that side of him at all, rather it showed his compassionate side and that he didn't want to be the Doctor to fight the war.
Now 9th would have made it work. Eccelston was a moody, grumpy Doctor which would fit with living with what he did, however it was obvious not going to happen as Chris said no.
I'd half hoped that McGann would get another 8 mins or so in Day of the Doctor, discussing the choice he made to become the War Doctor and donning a fez, but alas it wasn't to be.
Eccleston has always been his own man. Passionate, serious, and entirely his own man! I remember he quit cracker (bear in mind what a huge hit it was at the time) and the only way they managed to invite his character back was by writing the astonishing episode that saw him being murdered! This is the man he is. I utterly respect him for it. It should have come as no surprise that he wasn't interested in returning to the show. I for one wasn't disappointed. I am more than happy with the anniversary episode. From a completist point of view I understand people's grumbles but quite frankly John Hurt was brilliant and moving...
Indeed, if you want to see the calibre of his acting go back to Cracker and watch that scene with Eccleston and Robert Carlyle - I was shocked to the core when I first saw it and it still unnerves me to this day.
People should get off his back. He made the series, he was responsible for its return and subsequence rebirth. Let him be "The Difficult Doctor" and that's what makes him unique.
Indeed, if you want to see the calibre of his acting go back to Cracker and watch that scene with Eccleston and Robert Carlyle - I was shocked to the core when I first saw it and it still unnerves me to this day.
People should get off his back. He made the series, he was responsible for its return and subsequence rebirth. Let him be "The Difficult Doctor" and that's what makes him unique.
Ta ta!
I do think that with a show like this, that when an actor is signed they should be asked if they would be prepared to appear for specials, after they have finished and moved on and if not then they shouldnt be signed.
For the Doctor's roll, it should also be written into their contract that when they are finished that they can be called, work and personal circumstances permitting, for any specials that may be done!
If this had been the case when Eccleston was signed he may have passed it by and another more willing actor may have taken the roll!
I do think that with a show like this, that when an actor is signed they should be asked if they would be prepared to appear for specials, after they have finished and moved on and if not then they shouldnt be signed.
For the Doctor's roll, it should also be written into their contract that when they are finished that they can be called, work and personal circumstances permitting, for any specials that may be done!
If this had been the case when Eccleston was signed he may have passed it by and another more willing actor may have taken the roll!
I would doubt that any actor would sign his life away like that. It'll never happen. Nor should it.
McGann should never have been the War Doctor, he is a peaceful Doctor and would never ever have pressed that button. Night of the Doctor didn't show that side of him at all, rather it showed his compassionate side and that he didn't want to be the Doctor to fight the war.
McGann was only a peaceful Doctor in the TV movie, since he had just regenerated. In many audio adventures, his character has hardened considerably.
The idea of The Night of the Doctor would show that McGann could easily have pushed the button if he was forced to do it. If he was forced to regenerate into the War Doctor, he could easily have done it.
I would've found it far more interesting and gripping if McGann had been in place instead of Hurt, and it would've been a bigger draw for the audience.
It's all very well for Moffat to go "Wow, we've got John Hurt, isn't that amazing?" but he could've been a guest star in any episode, not specifically the 50th. McGann would've been more special.
“[Eccleston] is a brand new Doctor in Rose, he’s absolutely, definitely new..."
I take issue with this. While there are hints in the episode - The Doc looking at himself in the mirror as if he's not seen his face yet.
Yet Clive has a whole folder of photos of 9th which means he traveled around after regenerating so why hadn't he seen his face?
Sufyaan_Kazi
Posts: 3,862
Comments
Anyhow, Hurt did a great job, and far more accomplished than a gurning self important luvvie such as CE, who didn't have the intelligence to realise how important the 50th anniversary was to fans and the industry, to recognise some input in one of TVs greatest shows to have impacted society. He didn't even do a quick "good luck all" video. What a poor show from the lad.
So in the end it was for the best CE didn't want to do it as I don't think it would have turned out so good with him been The War Doctor
His memory would have been wiped following TDOTD.
He should get over his precious little self.
Well, not quite.
Although clearly Moffat initially planned to use the NuWho Three Doctors, it's also clear that very early on in the planning that CE wouldn't be involved. Moffat knew it was unlikely that CE would want to rejoin the show, so he already had a contingency story. As Moffat says, he couldn't imagine PM being the Time War Doctor, and CE seemed to be almost brand new in Rose, so Moffat went with an idea he'd been toying with for ages, namely a hitherto unknown incarnation of the Doctor. I suspect that the anniversary story would have been very different if CE had been involved. The later creation of the War Doctor allowed Moffat to tell a very different sort of tale.
So whilst we may not have had Hurt if CE had signed up, it's clear that CE's role was not simply recast as Hurt, more that the whole thrust of the story had to be reworked to incorporate Hurt's character when CE dropped out.
I never see the word "gurning" outside of these forums, and it's an insult aimed at anybody a forum member happens to dislike, regardless of whether it's an appropriate description.
Anyway, this thread is going to go the way of every other thread regarding Eccleston's involvement of the fiftieth. Outrage that an actor who has the freedom to pick and choose parts dare to do just that and not live his life according to the wishes of fans of a tv show he acted in 8 years ago.
Do I hold Eccleston to blame for that? Not at all. He's NOT the fictional character we see on screen, he's a real person with a life and with professional decisions to make. And aside from the fact that I praise him for sticking to his guns and not showing up, I would also add that I think with the plot for the episode, he was best off steering clear. The Day of the Doctor was so contrasting with what the Ninth Doctor was all about and it was a real shame to see that whole Time War element rewritten. Given that it was nearly a decade ago that we watched the Ninth Doctor though, we have to get over it and deal with the fact the show has moved on... just as Eccles has, and as a lot of selfish fans should when they criticise him.
I was in the minority that didn't want a Multi-Doctor special for the Anniversary. A show as huge, clever and open to new ideas as Doctor Who had endless potential to pull off something far more refreshing. I stick by that opinion now, perhaps because I really don't care for Tennant's Doctor at all, but also because it just feels like a lazy stunt... as would including Eccleston in the story we were given.
Yes, there was lots I loved about The Day of the Doctor.
Yes, I would have absolutely loved to have seen Eccleston back.
Yes, I was disappointed to not see him back.
And yes, I also understand why he didn't come back, and agree with why as well.
It really isn't Eccelston who needs to get over himself.
Irony of your statement... killing me... too cringeworthy to survive reading...
This! Some peoples lack of self awareness is almost staggering at times.
Or he doesn't place a TV show on a ridiculous pedestal like some fans.
YOU may feel the show is important, he clearly sees it as another job.
And he did send a message along to the BFI or whatever event it was.
Your patronising tone towards a man 31 years your senior is also hilarious.
I think the typecast stuff was just "the line" used at the time of his exit, I think it's clear his exit had nothing to do with that.
I did think his Doctor was a noticeable absentee from the eventual Hurt multi-doctor storyline.
When The Moment tells Hurt "these are the men you will become", having Ecclestone there, as a Doctor who was visibly more affected by the Time War than 10 & 11, would have packed even more of an emotional punch.
Shush now. To suggest that Eccleston conducts himself responsibly and professionally is anathema to the people round here.
That would've been even better - the Eighth Doctor seeing his future in Nine, Ten and Eleven. Completeness!
I'd rather it had been someone like Sarah Jane, (if possible, obviously), the fact we didn't get any more "real" Rose was one of the few negatives of DOTD for me, particularly when the publicity machine went very OTT about Billie's return.
But It's just a TV show and the people that act in it, bar one or two exceptions, don't share the devotion of those who watch it so they don't see it from our distorted viewpoint.
I can sense Chris being the Tom Baker of this generation (lets hope he makes a cameo in his 70s then
McGann should never have been the War Doctor, he is a peaceful Doctor and would never ever have pressed that button. Night of the Doctor didn't show that side of him at all, rather it showed his compassionate side and that he didn't want to be the Doctor to fight the war.
Now 9th would have made it work. Eccelston was a moody, grumpy Doctor which would fit with living with what he did, however it was obvious not going to happen as Chris said no.
I'd half hoped that McGann would get another 8 mins or so in Day of the Doctor, discussing the choice he made to become the War Doctor and donning a fez, but alas it wasn't to be.
Indeed, if you want to see the calibre of his acting go back to Cracker and watch that scene with Eccleston and Robert Carlyle - I was shocked to the core when I first saw it and it still unnerves me to this day.
People should get off his back. He made the series, he was responsible for its return and subsequence rebirth. Let him be "The Difficult Doctor" and that's what makes him unique.
Ta ta!
I do think that with a show like this, that when an actor is signed they should be asked if they would be prepared to appear for specials, after they have finished and moved on and if not then they shouldnt be signed.
For the Doctor's roll, it should also be written into their contract that when they are finished that they can be called, work and personal circumstances permitting, for any specials that may be done!
If this had been the case when Eccleston was signed he may have passed it by and another more willing actor may have taken the roll!
I would doubt that any actor would sign his life away like that. It'll never happen. Nor should it.
McGann was only a peaceful Doctor in the TV movie, since he had just regenerated. In many audio adventures, his character has hardened considerably.
The idea of The Night of the Doctor would show that McGann could easily have pushed the button if he was forced to do it. If he was forced to regenerate into the War Doctor, he could easily have done it.
I would've found it far more interesting and gripping if McGann had been in place instead of Hurt, and it would've been a bigger draw for the audience.
It's all very well for Moffat to go "Wow, we've got John Hurt, isn't that amazing?" but he could've been a guest star in any episode, not specifically the 50th. McGann would've been more special.
I take issue with this. While there are hints in the episode - The Doc looking at himself in the mirror as if he's not seen his face yet.
Yet Clive has a whole folder of photos of 9th which means he traveled around after regenerating so why hadn't he seen his face?