I know nothing about investment in business, but I don't think I'm going to learn an awful lot about it watching a game show like Dragon's Den.
Dragons' Den isn't a "game" show. Obviously the programme is edited for TV and is designed to get reactions from the viewer - I know I've sat watching it and shouted "what a stupid idea" or words to that effect on occasion.
If I was going to go into business with somebody, I'd want more than a half hour presentation and the chance to ask a few questions before handing over thousands of pounds.
The time spent on each venture by the Dragons seems to be no longer than it takes a person of normal means to, say, buy a TV or book a holiday.
I imagine (and this is purely a guess) that the pitch is a set amount of time - and chances are, you don't always see the whole thing. I also believe there's a lot of background work before the proposer gets to present their idea.
The format of the show seems to be 'complete no hoper/no hoper/someone with a good idea but not willing to give up that much stake to the Dragons/no hoper/investment'.
I almost wonder if, to make the show watchable with a bit of variety, having turned down so many of the pitchers, the Dragons almost feel obliged to offer an unnacceptible deal to any old rubbish that might prove an interesting diversion and make them look good on telly.
Although the show is full of people with flawed business modules and ideas, it also has some real gems - like the inventor of the egg cooker who was on the other week. The Dragons' aren't going to invest their own money in a venture which will lose capital - they could just as easily throw their money down the drain - and they're not going to do that.
It just seems a big ego trip for them all, and I'd love to see someone call their bluff. Did Deborah honestly think the girl would give up over half her picnic bag business, or was she taking a calculated risk and making an offer that she knew would be turned down to look good on the show?
Although Deborah's 51% offer was greedy, she wanted to develop the business more than the picnic bag inventor did. Her idea of profit was £10,000 over three years - and that isn't viable if you want to be a success. Therefore, Deborah's "deal" was to build and establish the brand as quickly as possible because the inventor lacked the enthusiasm to do the same thing in the same period of time.
Are the Dragons so rich that they can afford to throw a few gobbits on risky investments to keep a fledgling TV career going? I never heard what became of Simon Woodruffe's truffle farming buisness...
I don't know about Richard, but Peter is worth £250 million, Duncan is worth about £135 million, (I believe) Theo is somewhere in the £200 million plus range and Deborah has about £30 million. This is all from the programme's personality profiles at the start of the show. As for Simon, I take it you've never heard of Yo! Sushi, or Yotel - so he's doing okay!
As for Simon, I take it you've never heard of Yo! Sushi, or Yotel - so he's doing okay!
Hmm, wonder why he's never thought of bringing Yo Sushi to Merseyside?! Doesn't he think we're sophisticated enough? He's probly right, actually...
As for Yotel, it reminds me of The Generator in London with its futuristic concept. The Generator which seems to have turned into the biggest slum in the capital.
What are these 4 hour bookings for, eh, nudge nudge?
Actually, that reminds me of something I read earlier in this thread. I wonder (if it's true) how someone with so much debt and no real business (now) could've actually afforded to invest in a venture?
Probably the usual way people with money do things, by employing various clever methods so that the profits go into their pocket but they don't actually own anything personally, including liability.
Offshore bank accounts, holding company's, non executive directorships and the like at a guess.
I imagine (and this is purely a guess) that the pitch is a set amount of time - and chances are, you don't always see the whole thing.
On the truck wash guys website he mentions being questioned about his business plan for 20 minutes or so. I'm guessing the obvious jokers get given fairly short shrift but the more serious candidates get closely quizzed on the economics of the proposal, but in a serious way which wouldn't make good telly. It's a bit like the Antiques Roadshow, the description of the item can be interesting but the real drama is in the revelation of the price.
I see Sky are getting in on the act, Ruth Badger from the Apprentice is apparently going to be on hand providing guidance and advice in a new series searching for the next big idea or invention.
Probably the usual way people with money do things, by employing various clever methods so that the profits go into their pocket but they don't actually own anything personally, including liability.
Offshore bank accounts, holding company's, non executive directorships and the like at a guess.
Possibly so, but what I read indicated she was something like £4.7 million in debt. If she sold her business to Peter and Theo, that would normally include the attached liabilities.
On the truck wash guys website he mentions being questioned about his business plan for 20 minutes or so. I'm guessing the obvious jokers get given fairly short shrift but the more serious candidates get closely quizzed on the economics of the proposal, but in a serious way which wouldn't make good telly. It's a bit like the Antiques Roadshow, the description of the item can be interesting but the real drama is in the revelation of the price.
I see Sky are getting in on the act, Ruth Badger from the Apprentice is apparently going to be on hand providing guidance and advice in a new series searching for the next big idea or invention.
That sounds about right - and certainly makes sense. I'm interested by Sky's idea, but can't see how it would work if they just copy the format. I don't know for sure, but I don't believe someone like Ruth would be in a position to invest her own money in ventures like the Dragons' do. However, if it's a case of Ruth helping develop the business, then I can see that working out well.
Possibly so, but what I read indicated she was something like £4.7 million in debt. If she sold her business to Peter and Theo, that would normally include the attached liabilities.
I'd forgotten those two had taken on that pup.
I've not read up about it, apparently it all went T1t$ up, that must have been in one hell of a mess if those two couldn't bring it back to life.
I'd forgotten those two had taken on that pup.
I've not read up about it, apparently it all went T1t$ up, that must have been in one hell of a mess if those two couldn't bring it back to life.
Just because they have talent doesn't mean they can turn a business around anymore than you or I - the established statistc is that 80% of new businesses fail, no matter how much money or how many resources were pumped into them.
I never knew this was on at 9pm tonight, instead of 8pm. Just as well I had the TV on and heard an advert, otherwise my weekly planner would have missed it.
Yes, sorry. I've just realised it's only Scotland where it's on at 9pm.
Since Scotland gave the country the Blair / Brown comedy duo, programme planners are simply including an appropriate time delay to offset information to sink in.
Just because they have talent doesn't mean they can turn a business around anymore than you or I - the established statistc is that 80% of new businesses fail, no matter how much money or how many resources were pumped into them.
They (Theo and Peter) must have seen something in the business to make it worthwhile putting money in.
They're both clued up, so I can only assume it must have been in a very serious mess for it to still go down the pan.
On the other hand, it must have been in some mess for them to decide that ploughing more money in wasn't going to result in a healthy return at some point down the road.
I can see how lots of parents would buy them for their little darlings, but the woman herself hasn't really got a business head - she needs a tough manager type to take the reins
Comments
Dragons' Den isn't a "game" show. Obviously the programme is edited for TV and is designed to get reactions from the viewer - I know I've sat watching it and shouted "what a stupid idea" or words to that effect
I imagine (and this is purely a guess) that the pitch is a set amount of time - and chances are, you don't always see the whole thing. I also believe there's a lot of background work before the proposer gets to present their idea.
Although the show is full of people with flawed business modules and ideas, it also has some real gems - like the inventor of the egg cooker who was on the other week. The Dragons' aren't going to invest their own money in a venture which will lose capital - they could just as easily throw their money down the drain - and they're not going to do that.
Although Deborah's 51% offer was greedy, she wanted to develop the business more than the picnic bag inventor did. Her idea of profit was £10,000 over three years - and that isn't viable if you want to be a success. Therefore, Deborah's "deal" was to build and establish the brand as quickly as possible because the inventor lacked the enthusiasm to do the same thing in the same period of time.
I don't know about Richard, but Peter is worth £250 million, Duncan is worth about £135 million, (I believe) Theo is somewhere in the £200 million plus range and Deborah has about £30 million. This is all from the programme's personality profiles at the start of the show. As for Simon, I take it you've never heard of Yo! Sushi, or Yotel - so he's doing okay!
Hmm, wonder why he's never thought of bringing Yo Sushi to Merseyside?! Doesn't he think we're sophisticated enough? He's probly right, actually...
As for Yotel, it reminds me of The Generator in London with its futuristic concept. The Generator which seems to have turned into the biggest slum in the capital.
What are these 4 hour bookings for, eh, nudge nudge?
Probably the usual way people with money do things, by employing various clever methods so that the profits go into their pocket but they don't actually own anything personally, including liability.
Offshore bank accounts, holding company's, non executive directorships and the like at a guess.
On the truck wash guys website he mentions being questioned about his business plan for 20 minutes or so. I'm guessing the obvious jokers get given fairly short shrift but the more serious candidates get closely quizzed on the economics of the proposal, but in a serious way which wouldn't make good telly. It's a bit like the Antiques Roadshow, the description of the item can be interesting but the real drama is in the revelation of the price.
I see Sky are getting in on the act, Ruth Badger from the Apprentice is apparently going to be on hand providing guidance and advice in a new series searching for the next big idea or invention.
Possibly so, but what I read indicated she was something like £4.7 million in debt. If she sold her business to Peter and Theo, that would normally include the attached liabilities.
That sounds about right - and certainly makes sense. I'm interested by Sky's idea, but can't see how it would work if they just copy the format. I don't know for sure, but I don't believe someone like Ruth would be in a position to invest her own money in ventures like the Dragons' do. However, if it's a case of Ruth helping develop the business, then I can see that working out well.
I'd forgotten those two had taken on that pup.
I've not read up about it, apparently it all went T1t$ up, that must have been in one hell of a mess if those two couldn't bring it back to life.
Since Scotland gave the country the Blair / Brown comedy duo, programme planners are simply including an appropriate time delay to offset information to sink in.
They (Theo and Peter) must have seen something in the business to make it worthwhile putting money in.
They're both clued up, so I can only assume it must have been in a very serious mess for it to still go down the pan.
On the other hand, it must have been in some mess for them to decide that ploughing more money in wasn't going to result in a healthy return at some point down the road.
edit: and she cant patent the welly so I think its a "dont let the door hit you on the a**e on the way out"