Any of these cheap plasmas any good?

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  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,452
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    It's funny how all the Plasma fans (presumably in a desperate attempt to try and keep the technology alive?) refuse to entertain my continual advice to actually compare them side by side in a shop.

    If Plasma's are supposedly so 'wonderful' why would you refuse to agree that it's a good idea to do your own comparison?.

    As always, try them side by side on both SD and HD, and THEN make your own decision.

    I've done that many many times. Correctly set up plasmas win every time for me, and always have done. The only question is how to balance the trade-off of lower resolution of a good HD Ready plasma against the extra detail shown on a harsher full HD LCD picture. Normal viewing distance and personal preference determines that.

    However, I don't share your attitude - I don't claim that because I prefer the picture of a plasma, that everyone else should do too or that LCDs are crap. Plasmas and LCDs are very different beasts and here, personal preference beats specifications every time.
    noise747 wrote: »
    The problem with most shops is that they are crap at displaying TV sets.

    Even so, for me the difference is clear to see.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,328
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    d'@ve wrote: »
    The only question is how to balance the trade-off of lower resolution of a good HD Ready plasma against the extra detail shown on a harsher full HD LCD picture. Normal viewing distance and personal preference determines that.

    So basically you view from much too far away to see the benefits of HD (the higher resolution), which explains why you can't see the lack of HD on a Plasma HD Ready set.

    Please note that I have been comparing them with HD ready LCD's, NOT FUll HD ones.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,328
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    noise747 wrote: »
    Not been impressed with LED sets, the few I have seen, seems to be pretty dull, it is as if the LEDs can't cope with lighting the screen.

    It sounds like the sets you've seen are set to the stupid default of 'auto-brightness' (where the brightness automatically changes in response to the room brightness) - it's essential to turn that stupid 'feature' OFF - on whatever type of TV it is, including CRT back when CRT was available.

    Personally I would suggest that LED sets, if anything, are overly bright - and also tend to have a slight 'reddish' tinge to their pictures. However, it's something you very quickly get used to.
  • Deacon1972Deacon1972 Posts: 8,171
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    It sounds like the sets you've seen are set to the stupid default of 'auto-brightness' (where the brightness automatically changes in response to the room brightness) - it's essential to turn that stupid 'feature' OFF - on whatever type of TV it is, including CRT back when CRT was available.

    Personally I would suggest that LED sets, if anything, are overly bright - and also tend to have a slight 'reddish' tinge to their pictures. However, it's something you very quickly get used to.

    Plasma are crap but you get used to LED being overly bright and the reddish tinge of their picture quickly - I think you have lost the plot in this thread. :D
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,452
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    So basically you view from much too far away to see the benefits of HD (the higher resolution), which explains why you can't see the lack of HD on a Plasma HD Ready set.
    Correct, I don't sit 6 feet or less away from my 42 inch plasma, which is where most people need to be to see all the detail shown on full HD LCDs OR plasmas. If you don't, and apparently most people sit at 9 to 11 feet eye-to-screen, in their living room, paying extra for a full HD set of that size is a waste of money. The trouble is, they often make decisions in shops, based on nose-to-the-screen viewing and in bright fluorescent lighting, and with poorly adjusted sets...

    There is no lack of HD on decent quality plasma HD Ready TVs. You may of course have that illusion as sharpness can be confused with resolution, and LCDs are usually sharper (and brighter - aaargh!).
    Please note that I have been comparing them with HD ready LCD's, NOT FUll HD ones.

    In that case, for me, a decent HD Ready plasma TV wins every time over a similarly priced LCD.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,328
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    d'@ve wrote: »
    There is no lack of HD on decent quality plasma HD Ready TVs. You may of course have that illusion as sharpness can be confused with resolution, and LCDs are usually sharper (and brighter - aaargh!).

    No illusion involved - HD Ready Plasma's don't show the resolution for HD, which is what I've been saying all along. 'Sharpness' and resolution is what HD is about, and Plasma's blurring (softening if you like) of the picture is what makes them poor on HD.

    The 'sharpness' you don't like is HD :p

    But in your case, as you've obviously no interest in HD (viewing from much too far away to be able to see it) you're better off sticking with Plasma.

    I'll also stick with mine, and not bother with HD (even though I have it).
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,452
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    No illusion involved - HD Ready Plasma's don't show the resolution for HD, which is what I've been saying all along. 'Sharpness' and resolution is what HD is about, and Plasma's blurring (softening if you like) of the picture is what makes them poor on HD.

    The 'sharpness' you don't like is HD :p

    But in your case, as you've obviously no interest in HD (viewing from much too far away to be able to see it) you're better off sticking with Plasma.

    I'll also stick with mine, and not bother with HD (even though I have it).

    I'm surprised that you seem to think a good TV picture is all about spatial resolution and sharpness. It isn't.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5
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    I have been following this discussion with interest. I have a HD Ready" plasma(Panasonic) which is approx 6 years old, and i can most certainly see considerable improvement over SD when veiwing HD programs and when watching Blu-ray discs against SD. I can't comment on current models.but I think that Nigel,s comment
    "HD Ready Plasma sets are crap on HD".does not certainly apply to my set

    However beauty is in the eye the the beholder i guess:D
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,328
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    d'@ve wrote: »
    I'm surprised that you seem to think a good TV picture is all about spatial resolution and sharpness. It isn't.

    We're not talking about "a good TV picture", we're talking about HD - and we're not talking 'sharpness' as such but 'resolution' which is what HD is all about.

    My Plasma gives an excellent SD picture, and I'm extremely happy with it (seeing as it was free!) - but it's picture on HD via HDMI isn't enough improvement to make it worthwhile using HD. This applies to all HD Ready Plasma's I've seen, including current Panasonic and Samsung ones.

    HD is about resolution (sharpness if you like), it;s about seeing hairs on peoples heads, stubble on their faces etc.

    If you want to watch from too far away to see such fine detail that's your choice, but HD Ready Plasma's don't give you that option - get to a proper viewing distance and the HD isn't there.
  • tony le mesmertony le mesmer Posts: 876
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    We're not talking about "a good TV picture", we're talking about HD - and we're not talking 'sharpness' as such but 'resolution' which is what HD is all about.

    My Plasma gives an excellent SD picture, and I'm extremely happy with it (seeing as it was free!) - but it's picture on HD via HDMI isn't enough improvement to make it worthwhile using HD. This applies to all HD Ready Plasma's I've seen, including current Panasonic and Samsung ones.

    HD is about resolution (sharpness if you like), it;s about seeing hairs on peoples heads, stubble on their faces etc.

    If you want to watch from too far away to see such fine detail that's your choice, but HD Ready Plasma's don't give you that option - get to a proper viewing distance and the HD isn't there.

    Sorry if I'm being thick, but if we're only talking resolution wouldn't an HD ready plasma and an HD ready LCD be the same in that regard?
  • hardylanehardylane Posts: 3,092
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    We're not talking about "a good TV picture", we're talking about HD - and we're not talking 'sharpness' as such but 'resolution' which is what HD is all about.

    My Plasma gives an excellent SD picture, and I'm extremely happy with it (seeing as it was free!) - but it's picture on HD via HDMI isn't enough improvement to make it worthwhile using HD. This applies to all HD Ready Plasma's I've seen, including current Panasonic and Samsung ones.

    HD is about resolution (sharpness if you like), it;s about seeing hairs on peoples heads, stubble on their faces etc.

    If you want to watch from too far away to see such fine detail that's your choice, but HD Ready Plasma's don't give you that option - get to a proper viewing distance and the HD isn't there.

    I was going to say something pithy and cutting, but I can't be bothered.

    If someone's eyes can't tell the difference between a 1080i picture or a 576i picture (or claims it to be negligible) then you really shouldn't listen to them on technical matters.

    I think most of the rest here have already agreed that.
  • roddydogsroddydogs Posts: 10,298
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    Ns not saying that, hes talking about 720 (HD ready) V SD.. 1080i is "Full HD" (isnt he?)
  • Deacon1972Deacon1972 Posts: 8,171
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    No illusion involved - HD Ready Plasma's don't show the resolution for HD, which is what I've been saying all along. 'Sharpness' and resolution is what HD is about, and Plasma's blurring (softening if you like) of the picture is what makes them poor on HD.

    The 'sharpness' you don't like is HD :p

    But in your case, as you've obviously no interest in HD (viewing from much too far away to be able to see it) you're better off sticking with Plasma.

    I'll also stick with mine, and not bother with HD (even though I have it).
    How is sharpness HD? Sharpness can not increase/decrease the physical resolution of the display.

    Sharpness makes transitions between colours/shades and vertical/horizontal lines appear sharper to the eye - you may think sharper the better, the problem is it can distract you from the intended image, having an image that is not overly sharp will allow you to see more detail, especially in a fast moving image.

    IMO, the over processed, over bright image of LCD makes the picture look unnatural which detracts from accuracy.

    I would have thought most would regard HD as having more detail, not sharpness.

    HD ready plasma may not have the excessive sharpness like LCD, but at least it looks natural because the image is not overly processed. It is also very capable of resolving and showing the extra detail HD offers
  • hardylanehardylane Posts: 3,092
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    roddydogs wrote: »
    Ns not saying that, hes talking about 720 (HD ready) V SD.. 1080i is "Full HD" (isnt he?)

    No. 1080i is regarded as an "HD Ready" resolution... only 1080p is "Full HD"
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,452
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    hardylane wrote: »
    No. 1080i is regarded as an "HD Ready" resolution... only 1080p is "Full HD"

    To clarify, TVs using the "HD Ready" logo in the UK must accept both 720p50 and 1080i25 sources and must have HDCP, but the screen needs only to display 720 physical lines or more. In practice they've always had 720 or 768 lines IIRC. Some of them (like my Panasonic) will also accept 1080p sources.

    What you describe as "Full HD" is one of several unofficial variations on the official "HD Ready 1080p" theme.
  • roddydogsroddydogs Posts: 10,298
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    ........................................
  • Lordy LordyLordy Lordy Posts: 1,683
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    I've got to be honest, I have a full HD plasma Panasonic and I've always loved the picture. Last year we bought a 32" Samsung backlit full HD LCD for the bedroom and I much prefer the picture quality to the plasma. My other half can't understand why I prefer watching the football on the smaller TV!
  • Glawster2002Glawster2002 Posts: 15,189
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    We're not talking about "a good TV picture", we're talking about HD - and we're not talking 'sharpness' as such but 'resolution' which is what HD is all about.

    My Plasma gives an excellent SD picture, and I'm extremely happy with it (seeing as it was free!) - but it's picture on HD via HDMI isn't enough improvement to make it worthwhile using HD. This applies to all HD Ready Plasma's I've seen, including current Panasonic and Samsung ones.

    HD is about resolution (sharpness if you like), it;s about seeing hairs on peoples heads, stubble on their faces etc.

    If you want to watch from too far away to see such fine detail that's your choice, but HD Ready Plasma's don't give you that option - get to a proper viewing distance and the HD isn't there.

    However I would say the biggest influence on the detail is how well the display is set up and it seems to me very, very, few people actually take the time and trouble to set the levels correctly.
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