Yes I have explained before my belief in his different shifting personas which makes it easier for him to distance himself from the violence by the use of the door (he has a bit of history with doors). Then his need to have her behind the Door to shoot her, as he would never be able to explain a Face to Face Killing. That the Door was never locked etc. The surely unarguable faffing about and deliberate delays afterwards as further evidence.
This I know paints him in such a bad light and is distant from what a normal person would comprehend. I can't prove it for sure and respect others contrary opinions. Of course we would all like to know the "trigger" and when it kicked in. OP and perhaps his "wiped" phone will go to their respective graves with that bit of information I'm afraid. Maybe Frank though will want to talk at sometime, wherever? he now be.
I agree the door was an important factor here, it depersonalised Reeva for him.
The wiped phone is a disgrace and I would like to believe Frank, if he knows anything - which surely one would think he must, will one day speak about it to someone.
Some discussion on this ages ago. Total conjecture and in no way proven, but raises was she put in an untenable position by conflicting unseen forces and put to task, whilst rather being somewhere completely else? She does the deed but "seeds" to create an Appeal. She's off the "Hook" but Justice may still be done. Did Roux also displayed strange behaviour at times on similar lines? This dips into the Land of Conspiracy Theories, but so much "feels" wrong here that it lends itself to such speculation whether factual, reasonable or not.
I have only suspicions, but nothing is of course proven and its all an opinion.
Firstly, being rich and famous has helped Pistorius, it is simply systematic that a rich person can easily 'donate' money to society and afford the best experts and lawyers, all of which inherently puts poor people not only disadvantaged, but morally inferior, in the eyes of any system or society, to rich people.
Secondly, no one can really doubt that if Pistorius was black, 100% of every supporter would think he is a murderer, this is just plain humility to understand we all have this unfortunate bias, whether out of indoctrination or experience, that we constantly must guard against, but this works in favour of Pistorius.
Thirdly, Masipa is inexperienced, insofar as you rely totally on other learned people explain thing's to you or rely on case law, the simple matter is that law should not trump common-sense, or else i keep citing slavery was once law.
Masipa's reliance on the legal framework is necessary, but only as a guiding hand, justice is more important then law, because law is merely a servant of justice.
Masipa has shown because of her in-experience, she relies more on the established legal frameworks to make her decision, more-so then common-sense and justice itself.
So when she incorrectly interprets law, common-sense didn't kick in and tell her to not be stupid, instead she went over the cliff, following this incorrect interpretation.
All of these thing's i see in her history, i note her 252 year sentence of a rapist, whom was black, a life sentence to a policeman, who was black.
But 5 years (to be shortened to 10 months in-prison) for pistorius, who is white.
The disparity is staggering, only cognitive dissonance can explain it.
How can you ignore that the girl wrote she was scared of pistorius? how? do you dare argue this is normal? how can you argue that 4 witnesses hearing a woman scream, got it all wrong? how?
Pistorius killed Reeva, on valentines day, plain evidence reeva was scared of him by her own words, multiple independent neighbours heard a woman scream, he fired deliberately to kill and changed his aim while Reeva fell on the toilet.
No sane person would doubt he is guilty of murder, and highly likely he did it intentionally to kill her.
But because he is white, maybe he is innocent, only black people are guilty of murder.
He has a history of having a temper and angry outbursts - such as threatening to break Mark Bachelors legs, slamming the door on the lady he settled with out of court, shouting at people down the phone etc. and conversely there's nothing to prove his anger did not take control or that his version was true. In a situation where someone has been shot and killed for no immediately apparent reason there are generally only two driving emotions that come into play; fear and anger. You choose to believe it was fear, I don't find that theory in any way convincing.
Also anger and motive are not necessarily 2+2 = 4.
What you or I may consider as a reason (or motive) for anger could be very different from another person's point of view. It could be the result of a gradual build up of things or it could just be a snap out of the blue reaction, neither would be easy to prove in this case. It doesn't mean just because there is no black & white 'motive' available as recorded evidence from that night that it didn't happen.
Regardless of the protagonists in this case if the evidence had been presented anonymously I think the vast majority of people would believe the shots were fired in anger not self defence.
Yes this is not a one off Anger Burst. He has history and an escalating one at that. He liked to challenge himself and this has overtime extended out to challenging behaviour to Society. He likes to push the boundaries, he takes his gun every where he can. He loads it with Black Talon type Ranger Rounds and no doubts boasts about this to his new inner circles to boost his "Rep". Something is not right with Oscar, Sams Mum indicates this (yes she wrote a book and some view this as suspect), but she is picking up on his mood swings and strange worsening behaviour.
OP has got away with a lot, swept under the carpet by Management and Family. Hope to see more stories about his previous behaviour to surface now he is away for ... wow ... 10 months.
I have only suspicions, but nothing is of course proven and its all an opinion.
Firstly, being rich and famous has helped Pistorius, it is simply systematic that a rich person can easily 'donate' money to society and afford the best experts and lawyers, all of which inherently puts poor people not only disadvantaged, but morally inferior, in the eyes of any system or society, to rich people.
Secondly, no one can really doubt that if Pistorius was black, 100% of every supporter would think he is a murderer, this is just plain humility to understand we all have this unfortunate bias, whether out of indoctrination or experience, that we constantly must guard against, but this works in favour of Pistorius.
Thirdly, Masipa is inexperienced, insofar as you rely totally on other learned people explain thing's to you or rely on case law, the simple matter is that law should not trump common-sense, or else i keep citing slavery was once law.
Masipa's reliance on the legal framework is necessary, but only as a guiding hand, justice is more important then law, because law is merely a servant of justice.
Masipa has shown because of her in-experience, she relies more on the established legal frameworks to make her decision, more-so then common-sense and justice itself.
So when she incorrectly interprets law, common-sense didn't kick in and tell her to not be stupid, instead she went over the cliff, following this incorrect interpretation.
All of these thing's i see in her history, i note her 252 year sentence of a rapist, whom was black, a life sentence to a policeman, who was black.
But 5 years (to be shortened to 10 months in-prison) for pistorius, who is white.
The disparity is staggering, only cognitive dissonance can explain it.
How can you ignore that the girl wrote she was scared of pistorius? how? do you dare argue this is normal? how can you argue that 4 witnesses hearing a woman scream, got it all wrong? how?
Pistorius killed Reeva, on valentines day, plain evidence reeva was scared of him by her own words, multiple independent neighbours heard a woman scream, he fired deliberately to kill and changed his aim while Reeva fell on the toilet.
No sane person would doubt he is guilty of murder, and highly likely he did it intentionally to kill her.
But because he is white, maybe he is innocent, only black people are guilty of murder.
Good points and I understand your take and perspective.
BiB When you look at Masipa's Judgement history that conclusion may seem sound. Perhaps soften the only black people are guilty of murder point, perhaps temper it to be seen as more likely to be by too many. This is of course wrong on so many levels.
I find this White / Black thing uncomfortable and feeds polarisation of thoughts. The World is becoming more Coffee, but no doubt when everyone is so mixed it doesn't matter, we will comeback to simple Rich and Privileged contrasted in treatment of the Poor and Disadvantaged. Then there is of course that good old constant and mainstay Religion.
Whilst not perhaps so obvious, I think religion and perceptions have played a part here in this Trial. Masipa is I understand deeply Religious and Christian and likewise so are the Pistorian's with their beliefs (properly practiced or otherwise). I think the DT has played well on this from silly things like holding of hands and communes in the middle of the Court. The prejudgement perhaps by Masipa that Reeva was some Wanton irresponsible Gold Digger is another thought that some have raised.
Quite a swirl of forces at work here that make this Trial unique, with Televising providing the real window to the World on perhaps the greater picture at stake.
I find this White / Black thing uncomfortable and feeds polarisation of thoughts. The World is becoming more Coffee, but no doubt when everyone is so mixed it doesn't matter, we will comeback to simple Rich and Privileged contrasted in treatment of the Poor and Disadvantaged. Then there is of course that good old constant and mainstay Religion.
The internet has convinced me that realistically, people are in fact racist, to varying degree's, some of which may be benign, but we put up a good front in public.
It is honestly, intrinsic to human nature to tend towards racism, or just flat out prejudice, because humans by their nature behave by and large based on social grouping dynamics.
Have you ever wanted to help someone find a job? perhaps help them in your company?
one person would say your helping a friend.
Another person would say your doing what politicians do, acts of favouritism tantamount to corruption.
And they would be right, same behaviour, we judge differently because of different group.
I can freely admit i am probably racist to some degree, a byproduct of indoctrination and social attitude, my level of racism might be benign and pretty mild, but it's there, and everyone has it too.
Many countries have legislation specifically targeting women to help them socially, pure prejudice right here, but in this scenario, many find justified.
All minorities suffer strange problems because of this lack of admitting it, virtually every non-white culture, while railing against the injustice of the world having an attitude of white western superiority, intrinsically behave that they are in fact superior.
No more can this be seen by the practical affects of many immigrants, railing against western injustice, and yet wanting to move to a western country to enjoy the much better lifestyle, and conspicuously silent on their own cultures shortcomings.
This, i believe, Masipa also suffer's from, i personally have no doubt she views blacks, even of her own race, harsher then whites.
The internet has convinced me that realistically, people are in fact racist, to varying degree's, some of which may be benign, but we put up a good front in public.
It is honestly, intrinsic to human nature to tend towards racism, or just flat out prejudice, because humans by their nature behave by and large based on social grouping dynamics.
Have you ever wanted to help someone find a job? perhaps help them in your company?
one person would say your helping a friend.
Another person would say your doing what politicians do, acts of favouritism tantamount to corruption.
And they would be right, same behaviour, we judge differently because of different group.
I can freely admit i am probably racist to some degree, a byproduct of indoctrination and social attitude, my level of racism might be benign and pretty mild, but it's there, and everyone has it too.
Many countries have legislation specifically targeting women to help them socially, pure prejudice right here, but in this scenario, many find justified.
More good points, but I am suffering from another genetically differentiation in Life called sleep or lack of. I'm off to bed and no doubt being so late will need to count sheep, but in the interests of harmony will count one black to each white. Which type of sheep will be found guilty of still keeping me awake time will tell (but I shall not Judge them harshly). ;-)
She did not ignore circumstantial evidence and rely solely on common cause issues. Once she accepted that the shots came first the state's case was simply and rightly over. Everything else was simply explaining why she felt witnesses misperceived events and why other evidence became irrelevant.
Exactly. She made a fundamental error of logic and analysis. And having made that initial mistake, all the rest flowed from it - including her need as you say to disregard the highly credible evidence that directly contradicted it.
Sadly the state cannot appeal this the single most important mistake she made, as in my opinion it led to a major miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps it could have driven a truly useful conversation on gun culture if so much energy hadn't been consumed linking it so uselessly to domestic violence.
Although I personally think it was a domestic violence situation the prosecution didn't go down that path at all so I am not sue what you are referring to?
Well that's where you and I differ, I would hope to see Oscar shine again on the Track. However I think this Tragedy will have left its mark and he will carry the Guilt always, but with the love and support of his Family I hope he will be fine.
Good for you but like you said "that's where you and I differ"
I disagree. No justice for Reeva would have been either no one being held to account for her death or the person held to account for her death walking away without punishment to continue with their life as if nothing happened that night.
Is he going to prison? Yes. Will he spend at least 10 months deprived of his immediate freedom and longer restricted to house arrest? Yes. Has he lost all of his money? Yes. Has he lost all of his sporting career? Yes. Has he lost all of his status as a celebrity? Yes. Has he lost his status in SA and Globally? Yes. Has he lost his friends? Yes. What will he be when he comes out? Practically nothing. And if he's telling the truth, he's going to be haunted by what he did for the rest of his life. And if he isn't telling the truth he will still be haunted.
I think that's justice. It may not be harsh enough for some.. but it's justice. He could sit in a cell for 10 years and some would want 15, or the death penalty. You will never satisfy everyone.. a point M'Lady wanted to stress in the summing up. Reeva's parents accepted it so I think that's all that matters.
I disagree. No justice for Reeva would have been either no one being held to account for her death or the person held to account for her death walking away without punishment to continue with their life as if nothing happened that night.
Is he going to prison? Yes. Will he spend at least 10 months deprived of his immediate freedom and longer restricted to house arrest? Yes. Has he lost all of his money? Yes. Has he lost all of his sporting career? Yes. Has he lost all of his status as a celebrity? Yes. Has he lost his status in SA and Globally? Yes. Has he lost his friends? Yes. What will he be when he comes out? Practically nothing. And if he's telling the truth, he's going to be haunted by what he did for the rest of his life. And if he isn't telling the truth he will still be haunted.
I think that's justice. It may not be harsh enough for some.. but it's justice. He could sit in a cell for 10 years and some would want 15, or the death penalty. You will never satisfy everyone.. a point M'Lady wanted to stress in the summing up. Reeva's parents accepted it so I think that's all that matters.
Yes I'm with you on this. For some nothing would be enough, for others it is too harsh. But today Oscar is in prison and his life is ruined, and Reeva's family are satisfied and can try and move on with their lives. I hope it is left there and that they are not forced to go through another court case.
I disagree. No justice for Reeva would have been either no one being held to account for her death or the person held to account for her death walking away without punishment to continue with their life as if nothing happened that night.
Is he going to prison? Yes. Will he spend at least 10 months deprived of his immediate freedom and longer restricted to house arrest? Yes. Has he lost all of his money? Yes. Has he lost all of his sporting career? Yes. Has he lost all of his status as a celebrity? Yes. Has he lost his status in SA and Globally? Yes. Has he lost his friends? Yes. What will he be when he comes out? Practically nothing. And if he's telling the truth, he's going to be haunted by what he did for the rest of his life. And if he isn't telling the truth he will still be haunted.
I think that's justice. It may not be harsh enough for some.. but it's justice. He could sit in a cell for 10 years and some would want 15, or the death penalty. You will never satisfy everyone.. a point M'Lady wanted to stress in the summing up. Reeva's parents accepted it so I think that's all that matters.
Please don't throw around the word justice when you have no idea about it.
Comments
I agree the door was an important factor here, it depersonalised Reeva for him.
The wiped phone is a disgrace and I would like to believe Frank, if he knows anything - which surely one would think he must, will one day speak about it to someone.
Night all ;-)
Firstly, being rich and famous has helped Pistorius, it is simply systematic that a rich person can easily 'donate' money to society and afford the best experts and lawyers, all of which inherently puts poor people not only disadvantaged, but morally inferior, in the eyes of any system or society, to rich people.
Secondly, no one can really doubt that if Pistorius was black, 100% of every supporter would think he is a murderer, this is just plain humility to understand we all have this unfortunate bias, whether out of indoctrination or experience, that we constantly must guard against, but this works in favour of Pistorius.
Thirdly, Masipa is inexperienced, insofar as you rely totally on other learned people explain thing's to you or rely on case law, the simple matter is that law should not trump common-sense, or else i keep citing slavery was once law.
Masipa's reliance on the legal framework is necessary, but only as a guiding hand, justice is more important then law, because law is merely a servant of justice.
Masipa has shown because of her in-experience, she relies more on the established legal frameworks to make her decision, more-so then common-sense and justice itself.
So when she incorrectly interprets law, common-sense didn't kick in and tell her to not be stupid, instead she went over the cliff, following this incorrect interpretation.
All of these thing's i see in her history, i note her 252 year sentence of a rapist, whom was black, a life sentence to a policeman, who was black.
But 5 years (to be shortened to 10 months in-prison) for pistorius, who is white.
The disparity is staggering, only cognitive dissonance can explain it.
How can you ignore that the girl wrote she was scared of pistorius? how? do you dare argue this is normal? how can you argue that 4 witnesses hearing a woman scream, got it all wrong? how?
Pistorius killed Reeva, on valentines day, plain evidence reeva was scared of him by her own words, multiple independent neighbours heard a woman scream, he fired deliberately to kill and changed his aim while Reeva fell on the toilet.
No sane person would doubt he is guilty of murder, and highly likely he did it intentionally to kill her.
But because he is white, maybe he is innocent, only black people are guilty of murder.
Yes this is not a one off Anger Burst. He has history and an escalating one at that. He liked to challenge himself and this has overtime extended out to challenging behaviour to Society. He likes to push the boundaries, he takes his gun every where he can. He loads it with Black Talon type Ranger Rounds and no doubts boasts about this to his new inner circles to boost his "Rep". Something is not right with Oscar, Sams Mum indicates this (yes she wrote a book and some view this as suspect), but she is picking up on his mood swings and strange worsening behaviour.
OP has got away with a lot, swept under the carpet by Management and Family. Hope to see more stories about his previous behaviour to surface now he is away for ... wow ... 10 months.
Good points and I understand your take and perspective.
BiB When you look at Masipa's Judgement history that conclusion may seem sound. Perhaps soften the only black people are guilty of murder point, perhaps temper it to be seen as more likely to be by too many. This is of course wrong on so many levels.
I find this White / Black thing uncomfortable and feeds polarisation of thoughts. The World is becoming more Coffee, but no doubt when everyone is so mixed it doesn't matter, we will comeback to simple Rich and Privileged contrasted in treatment of the Poor and Disadvantaged. Then there is of course that good old constant and mainstay Religion.
Whilst not perhaps so obvious, I think religion and perceptions have played a part here in this Trial. Masipa is I understand deeply Religious and Christian and likewise so are the Pistorian's with their beliefs (properly practiced or otherwise). I think the DT has played well on this from silly things like holding of hands and communes in the middle of the Court. The prejudgement perhaps by Masipa that Reeva was some Wanton irresponsible Gold Digger is another thought that some have raised.
Quite a swirl of forces at work here that make this Trial unique, with Televising providing the real window to the World on perhaps the greater picture at stake.
It is honestly, intrinsic to human nature to tend towards racism, or just flat out prejudice, because humans by their nature behave by and large based on social grouping dynamics.
Have you ever wanted to help someone find a job? perhaps help them in your company?
one person would say your helping a friend.
Another person would say your doing what politicians do, acts of favouritism tantamount to corruption.
And they would be right, same behaviour, we judge differently because of different group.
I can freely admit i am probably racist to some degree, a byproduct of indoctrination and social attitude, my level of racism might be benign and pretty mild, but it's there, and everyone has it too.
Many countries have legislation specifically targeting women to help them socially, pure prejudice right here, but in this scenario, many find justified.
All minorities suffer strange problems because of this lack of admitting it, virtually every non-white culture, while railing against the injustice of the world having an attitude of white western superiority, intrinsically behave that they are in fact superior.
No more can this be seen by the practical affects of many immigrants, railing against western injustice, and yet wanting to move to a western country to enjoy the much better lifestyle, and conspicuously silent on their own cultures shortcomings.
This, i believe, Masipa also suffer's from, i personally have no doubt she views blacks, even of her own race, harsher then whites.
More good points, but I am suffering from another genetically differentiation in Life called sleep or lack of. I'm off to bed and no doubt being so late will need to count sheep, but in the interests of harmony will count one black to each white. Which type of sheep will be found guilty of still keeping me awake time will tell (but I shall not Judge them harshly). ;-)
Exactly. She made a fundamental error of logic and analysis. And having made that initial mistake, all the rest flowed from it - including her need as you say to disregard the highly credible evidence that directly contradicted it.
Sadly the state cannot appeal this the single most important mistake she made, as in my opinion it led to a major miscarriage of justice.
Although I personally think it was a domestic violence situation the prosecution didn't go down that path at all so I am not sue what you are referring to?
Good for you but like you said "that's where you and I differ"
Thank you.
There is one on OP and Reeve Sky said last night. But no doubt it will be all about OP >:(
"Defence attorney Cliff Alexander gives an analysis of exactly what Oscar Pistorius sentencing means."
Interesting discussion of OP's sentence (short video) - a figure of 8 months is mentioned.
And butting in >:(
I don't think the father is that pleased with the results
He is not letting them fully explain.
I am hoping that OP has to do the full 5 years with no parole. This is not justice for Reeva.
There isn't anything wrong with this. If she had given him 15 years he would have been out in 2.5 years. That's how it works over there.
I disagree. No justice for Reeva would have been either no one being held to account for her death or the person held to account for her death walking away without punishment to continue with their life as if nothing happened that night.
Is he going to prison? Yes. Will he spend at least 10 months deprived of his immediate freedom and longer restricted to house arrest? Yes. Has he lost all of his money? Yes. Has he lost all of his sporting career? Yes. Has he lost all of his status as a celebrity? Yes. Has he lost his status in SA and Globally? Yes. Has he lost his friends? Yes. What will he be when he comes out? Practically nothing. And if he's telling the truth, he's going to be haunted by what he did for the rest of his life. And if he isn't telling the truth he will still be haunted.
I think that's justice. It may not be harsh enough for some.. but it's justice. He could sit in a cell for 10 years and some would want 15, or the death penalty. You will never satisfy everyone.. a point M'Lady wanted to stress in the summing up. Reeva's parents accepted it so I think that's all that matters.
Yes I'm with you on this. For some nothing would be enough, for others it is too harsh. But today Oscar is in prison and his life is ruined, and Reeva's family are satisfied and can try and move on with their lives. I hope it is left there and that they are not forced to go through another court case.
It's called an opinion.