She was, although then went the other way in the wall round when "Orkney or Shetland islands" was mentioned but wasn't deemed specific enough. It was a lot more specific than some of the answers which have been allowed in the first two rounds.
It was actually correct because 'Mainland' is the name for the main island of both Orkney and Shetland. They did waffle though with their attempt with 'Scottish islands'.
She was, although then went the other way in the wall round when "Orkney or Shetland islands" was mentioned but wasn't deemed specific enough. It was a lot more specific than some of the answers which have been allowed in the first two rounds.
I must admit that I thought that if 'the team whose name I can't remember but th one with the doctor with purple frizzy hair' had given it, she'd have been falling over herself to give points.
I take it these were the official abbreviations for those ranks. It's not like anybody's going to look at Flt Lt or Sqn Ldr and think anything other than Flight Lieutenant and Squadron Leader, so therefore if the general knowledge element of the question becomes knowing the official abbreviations then they should have had to say exactly what would appear in the 4th box. She accepted Group Captain on the grounds they knew they were Air Force ranks, which by their own rules is not important in this round. You would not have expected to see the words in full in the 4th box. Would she have accepted Green as an answer on the grounds the abbreviations represented colours of the rainbow? We will never know, but yet again Only Connect sloppiness comes to the fore and the other team should have had the chance to give the correct answer for a bonus.
They actually did give an abbreviation which was wrong by one letter. On that basis VCM asked them to clarify and explain why which they did showing that they knew that the abbreviation was for Group Captain which was the next rank in the sequence.
That seems fair enough to me. They were so close with their abbreviation that I don't see how they could seriously offer it to the other team.
They actually did give an abbreviation which was wrong by one letter. On that basis VCM asked them to clarify and explain why which they did showing that they knew that the abbreviation was for Group Captain which was the next rank in the sequence.
That seems fair enough to me. They were so close with their abbreviation that I don't see how they could seriously offer it to the other team.
But no doubt you disagree.
Is there an 'official' abbreviation to the exclusion of all others? I have transcribed many lists of servicemen's names off .war memorials and the abbreviations of ranks vary widely
They actually did give an abbreviation which was wrong by one letter. On that basis VCM asked them to clarify and explain why which they did showing that they knew that the abbreviation was for Group Captain which was the next rank in the sequence.
That seems fair enough to me. They were so close with their abbreviation that I don't see how they could seriously offer it to the other team.
But no doubt you disagree.
In the vowels round they can give an answer that is wrong by one letter, in which case they are deducted a point and the other team gets to say it right for a bonus, meaning a swing of 3 in total.
In the sequence round you are supposed to say what you would see in the 4th box, how you get there is irrelevant - AS THEY KEEP SAYING.
What you say is entirely reasonable if you think it's ok to give points for wrong answers in a tv quiz programme, however close you think they got.
Would you have accepted the answer "green" for the other sequence?
Is there an 'official' abbreviation to the exclusion of all others? I have transcribed many lists of servicemen's names off .war memorials and the abbreviations of ranks vary widely
Which makes it even more silly that they used abbreviations at all, or that she didn't immediately accept an obvious legitimate alternative for group captain.
In the vowels round they can give an answer that is wrong by one letter, in which case they are deducted a point and the other team gets to say it right for a bonus, meaning a swing of 3 in total.
In the sequence round you are supposed to say what you would see in the 4th box, how you get there is irrelevant - AS THEY KEEP SAYING.
What you say is entirely reasonable if you think it's ok to give points for wrong answers in a tv quiz programme, however close you think they got.
Would you have accepted the answer "green" for the other sequence?
The rules for each round are different so how they score the missing vowels round is essentially irrelevant to this question.
I would disagree that they gave a wrong answer - the answer they gave was so close and so clearly demonstrated that they knew what the sequence was and what was supposed to be in the final box (an abbreviation of Group Captain) that only the harshest of sticklers would claim they didn't deserve the point.
As has been demonstrated many times in the past, VCM has a certain amount of leeway when awarding points and while I'd agree that she can be a bit haphazard when applying this I would say that in this case she got it right.
I don't think there is any requirement that all sequences should be solvable from the first clue, many are not.
I suppose it seems fairer if you can possibly (if not necessarily feasibly) get it after the
first clue. But there have been many times when it has been virtually impossible.
This was certainly impossible from the first clue. Maybe if they started with 2:41 it
might have at least been possible (albeit still highly unfeasible).
Regardless, my issue with the first clue was that it didn't really fit the pattern.
Is it reasonable to suggest that a single digit reversed is that same digit...
so that means it fits the pattern of reversing the order of the digits?
The rules for each round are different so how they score the missing vowels round is essentially irrelevant to this question.
I would disagree that they gave a wrong answer - the answer they gave was so close and so clearly demonstrated that they knew what the sequence was and what was supposed to be in the final box (an abbreviation of Group Captain) that only the harshest of sticklers would claim they didn't deserve the point.
As has been demonstrated many times in the past, VCM has a certain amount of leeway when awarding points and while I'd agree that she can be a bit haphazard when applying this I would say that in this case she got it right.
Yes, the rules for each round are different, and under the rules for this round they gave an incorrect answer. Even if it was "close". And as has been stated many times in the past knowledge of the correct sequence is immaterial so long as you say exactly what you would see in the 4th box.
Yes, maybe it is a bit harsh to insist on right answers in a tv quiz programme. She got it wrong, and it is unfair on the other team they didn't have a chance to give the right answer.
Yes, the rules for each round are different, and under the rules for this round they gave an incorrect answer. Even if it was "close". And as has been stated many times in the past knowledge of the correct sequence is immaterial so long as you say exactly what you would see in the 4th box.
Yes, maybe it is a bit harsh to insist on right answers in a tv quiz programme. She got it wrong, and it is unfair on the other team they didn't have a chance to give the right answer.
She got it wrong - in your opinion. And in my opinion she got it right.
Based on your view of the rules then if they'd just said "an abbreviation of Group Captain" would that have counted as a correct answer? That is what they would see in the 4th box so I suppose it would.
Several times in the past she has asked teams to clarify their reasoning. Sometimes this is because the answer is so spectacularly wrong that she just wants to know how they got to it but often it is because she can see they do know what the answer is but haven't expressed it exactly. In the same way that she will often tell them to have another go because they are so close to the correct answer. Perhaps it might have been better if she'd done that this time.
Either way I still don't think it should have been offered to the other team as effectively the original team had done all of the working out which the other team may not have done. The original answer was so close that it would have been unfair to the original team to offer it across.
You seem to be focussing on the letter of the rules rather than the spirit. The fact that VCM has a certain amount of leeway when giving points suggests to me that the production team have a different view.
The correct 4th answer would be 82. The sequence is base 7 counting, with alternate figures reversed ie 14 became 41 and 28 became 82.
However, how on earth can anyone get 5 points from just seeing the first answer?
Very poor from the question setters.
You've misremembered the sequence. It was 1:7, 2:41, 3:12, 4:82.
From the first clue, it would be possible to infer that the clue represents 1 x 7 = 7, but not that the final clue would be 4 x 7 = 82. But from the second clue onwards, the sequence is consistently multiples of seven with the digits reversed. So it's unlikely anyone would give the answer 4:82 from seeing the first clue, unless they were very good at anticipating trick sequences, but that doesn't mean it's a poor question. It still relied on spotting the connection and working out the final answer, which is the point of the game.
She got it wrong - in your opinion. And in my opinion she got it right.
Based on your view of the rules then if they'd just said "an abbreviation of Group Captain" would that have counted as a correct answer? That is what they would see in the 4th box so I suppose it would.
Several times in the past she has asked teams to clarify their reasoning. Sometimes this is because the answer is so spectacularly wrong that she just wants to know how they got to it but often it is because she can see they do know what the answer is but haven't expressed it exactly. In the same way that she will often tell them to have another go because they are so close to the correct answer. Perhaps it might have been better if she'd done that this time.
Either way I still don't think it should have been offered to the other team as effectively the original team had done all of the working out which the other team may not have done. The original answer was so close that it would have been unfair to the original team to offer it across.
You seem to be focussing on the letter of the rules rather than the spirit. The fact that VCM has a certain amount of leeway when giving points suggests to me that the production team have a different view.
Exactly. I've lost count of the times she's said "Have another go", when teams are very close but not specific enough.
She got it wrong - in your opinion. And in my opinion she got it right.
Based on your view of the rules then if they'd just said "an abbreviation of Group Captain" would that have counted as a correct answer? That is what they would see in the 4th box so I suppose it would.
Several times in the past she has asked teams to clarify their reasoning. Sometimes this is because the answer is so spectacularly wrong that she just wants to know how they got to it but often it is because she can see they do know what the answer is but haven't expressed it exactly. In the same way that she will often tell them to have another go because they are so close to the correct answer. Perhaps it might have been better if she'd done that this time.
Either way I still don't think it should have been offered to the other team as effectively the original team had done all of the working out which the other team may not have done. The original answer was so close that it would have been unfair to the original team to offer it across.
You seem to be focussing on the letter of the rules rather than the spirit. The fact that VCM has a certain amount of leeway when giving points suggests to me that the production team have a different view.
You're just arguing for the sake of it.
For a start you don't have a problem with focusing, literally, on the letter of the rules in the vowels round, even if that also means giving the other team all the working out they might not have done and unfair because the original answer was so close, in addition to penalising the first team a point too. In fact that would probably apply to quite a lot of the questions in the first two rounds too, as we don't know how much can be heard across the studio. Obviously this doesn't apply to the occasion when VCM lost the plot and gave 3 obviously incorrect vowels points to the same team in one episode.
So, totally inconsistent attitude to the rules there.
In the specific case of this question I have no idea why they used abbreviations at all, if in fact these are not in some sense official. Unfortunately we don't have access to the question editor any more to find out. The answer they gave was so obviously an abbreviation for Group Captain there was no real need to ask, and as has been stated so many times in the past, by VCM, it doesn't matter if you know what the sequence represents as long as you give the, or a, right answer, so giving the point should'nt depend on stating it. I see this as more sloppiness by people who don't understand their own rules or questions than anything else.
You're just arguing for the sake of it.
For a start you don't have a problem with focusing, literally, on the letter of the rules in the vowels round, even if that also means giving the other team all the working out they might not have done and unfair because the original answer was so close, in addition to penalising the first team a point too. In fact that would probably apply to quite a lot of the questions in the first two rounds too, as we don't know how much can be heard across the studio. Obviously this doesn't apply to the occasion when VCM lost the plot and gave 3 obviously incorrect vowels points to the same team in one episode.
So, totally inconsistent attitude to the rules there.
In the specific case of this question I have no idea why they used abbreviations at all, if in fact these are not in some sense official. Unfortunately we don't have access to the question editor any more to find out. The answer they gave was so obviously an abbreviation for Group Captain there was no real need to ask, and as has been stated so many times in the past, by VCM, it doesn't matter if you know what the sequence represents as long as you give the, or a, right answer, so giving the point should'nt depend on stating it. I see this as more sloppiness by people who don't understand their own rules or questions than anything else.
No, I'm arguing because I genuinely disagree with you. But if you want to believe differently then there's nothing I can do about that.
I don't know why you're bringing in the missing vowels round. I've only mentioned them in response to you bringing it up. And that was only to say that it's irrelevant to this question so I'm not sure why you're saying I'm "focussing literally on the letter of the rules of the missing vowels round" when I've done no such thing.
Anyway rather than drag this on indefinitely can I just repeat what I said at the start of my last post - you think she was wrong, I think she was right. Let's leave it at that.
No, I'm arguing because I genuinely disagree with you. But if you want to believe differently then there's nothing I can do about that.
Anyway rather than drag this on indefinitely can I just repeat what I said at the start of my last post - you think she was wrong, I think she was right. Let's leave it at that.
You could start from the position that the correct answer, according to the producers of the programme themselves, is exactly what you would expect to see in the 4th box, regardless of what you thought the sequence was. So basically you are arguing that an incorrect answer, by definition, should be allowed in some circumstances if they can come up with some sort of explanation. In other words, the right answer to a question is entirely what she decides on a whim to accept. Which is wrong really. I can't understand why you think it's wrong to insist on right answers in a quiz programme. But there you go.
You could start from the position that the correct answer, according to the producers of the programme themselves, is exactly what you would expect to see in the 4th box, regardless of what you thought the sequence was. So basically you are arguing that an incorrect answer, by definition, should be allowed in some circumstances if they can come up with some sort of explanation. In other words, the right answer to a question is entirely what she decides on a whim to accept. Which is wrong really. I can't understand why you think it's wrong to insist on right answers in a quiz programme. But there you go.
I don't think it's wrong to insist on right answers. Where we disagree is on whether the answer they gave was right. I think it was an acceptable answer (although not exactly what was in the 4th box) but you don't.
Interestingly in tonight's show VCM actually specified in the Trivial Pursuit sequence question that she would only accept an exact answer for that question. The fact it was felt necessary to specify that suggests that in other questions there is some leeway - which is exactly what happened last week.
Comments
It was actually correct because 'Mainland' is the name for the main island of both Orkney and Shetland. They did waffle though with their attempt with 'Scottish islands'.
I must admit that I thought that if 'the team whose name I can't remember but th one with the doctor with purple frizzy hair' had given it, she'd have been falling over herself to give points.
The Boardgamers ?
They actually did give an abbreviation which was wrong by one letter. On that basis VCM asked them to clarify and explain why which they did showing that they knew that the abbreviation was for Group Captain which was the next rank in the sequence.
That seems fair enough to me. They were so close with their abbreviation that I don't see how they could seriously offer it to the other team.
But no doubt you disagree.
Is there an 'official' abbreviation to the exclusion of all others? I have transcribed many lists of servicemen's names off .war memorials and the abbreviations of ranks vary widely
In the sequence round you are supposed to say what you would see in the 4th box, how you get there is irrelevant - AS THEY KEEP SAYING.
What you say is entirely reasonable if you think it's ok to give points for wrong answers in a tv quiz programme, however close you think they got.
Would you have accepted the answer "green" for the other sequence?
7 41 21 ?
The correct 4th answer would be 82. The sequence is base 7 counting, with alternate figures reversed ie 14 became 41 and 28 became 82.
However, how on earth can anyone get 5 points from just seeing the first answer?
Very poor from the question setters.
I don't think there is any requirement that all sequences should be solvable from the first clue, many are not.
The rules for each round are different so how they score the missing vowels round is essentially irrelevant to this question.
I would disagree that they gave a wrong answer - the answer they gave was so close and so clearly demonstrated that they knew what the sequence was and what was supposed to be in the final box (an abbreviation of Group Captain) that only the harshest of sticklers would claim they didn't deserve the point.
As has been demonstrated many times in the past, VCM has a certain amount of leeway when awarding points and while I'd agree that she can be a bit haphazard when applying this I would say that in this case she got it right.
I suppose it seems fairer if you can possibly (if not necessarily feasibly) get it after the
first clue. But there have been many times when it has been virtually impossible.
This was certainly impossible from the first clue. Maybe if they started with 2:41 it
might have at least been possible (albeit still highly unfeasible).
Regardless, my issue with the first clue was that it didn't really fit the pattern.
Is it reasonable to suggest that a single digit reversed is that same digit...
so that means it fits the pattern of reversing the order of the digits?
Yes, maybe it is a bit harsh to insist on right answers in a tv quiz programme. She got it wrong, and it is unfair on the other team they didn't have a chance to give the right answer.
She got it wrong - in your opinion. And in my opinion she got it right.
Based on your view of the rules then if they'd just said "an abbreviation of Group Captain" would that have counted as a correct answer? That is what they would see in the 4th box so I suppose it would.
Several times in the past she has asked teams to clarify their reasoning. Sometimes this is because the answer is so spectacularly wrong that she just wants to know how they got to it but often it is because she can see they do know what the answer is but haven't expressed it exactly. In the same way that she will often tell them to have another go because they are so close to the correct answer. Perhaps it might have been better if she'd done that this time.
Either way I still don't think it should have been offered to the other team as effectively the original team had done all of the working out which the other team may not have done. The original answer was so close that it would have been unfair to the original team to offer it across.
You seem to be focussing on the letter of the rules rather than the spirit. The fact that VCM has a certain amount of leeway when giving points suggests to me that the production team have a different view.
You've misremembered the sequence. It was 1:7, 2:41, 3:12, 4:82.
From the first clue, it would be possible to infer that the clue represents 1 x 7 = 7, but not that the final clue would be 4 x 7 = 82. But from the second clue onwards, the sequence is consistently multiples of seven with the digits reversed. So it's unlikely anyone would give the answer 4:82 from seeing the first clue, unless they were very good at anticipating trick sequences, but that doesn't mean it's a poor question. It still relied on spotting the connection and working out the final answer, which is the point of the game.
Exactly. I've lost count of the times she's said "Have another go", when teams are very close but not specific enough.
For a start you don't have a problem with focusing, literally, on the letter of the rules in the vowels round, even if that also means giving the other team all the working out they might not have done and unfair because the original answer was so close, in addition to penalising the first team a point too. In fact that would probably apply to quite a lot of the questions in the first two rounds too, as we don't know how much can be heard across the studio. Obviously this doesn't apply to the occasion when VCM lost the plot and gave 3 obviously incorrect vowels points to the same team in one episode.
So, totally inconsistent attitude to the rules there.
In the specific case of this question I have no idea why they used abbreviations at all, if in fact these are not in some sense official. Unfortunately we don't have access to the question editor any more to find out. The answer they gave was so obviously an abbreviation for Group Captain there was no real need to ask, and as has been stated so many times in the past, by VCM, it doesn't matter if you know what the sequence represents as long as you give the, or a, right answer, so giving the point should'nt depend on stating it. I see this as more sloppiness by people who don't understand their own rules or questions than anything else.
No, I'm arguing because I genuinely disagree with you. But if you want to believe differently then there's nothing I can do about that.
I don't know why you're bringing in the missing vowels round. I've only mentioned them in response to you bringing it up. And that was only to say that it's irrelevant to this question so I'm not sure why you're saying I'm "focussing literally on the letter of the rules of the missing vowels round" when I've done no such thing.
Anyway rather than drag this on indefinitely can I just repeat what I said at the start of my last post - you think she was wrong, I think she was right. Let's leave it at that.
K
Austin Powers in Goldmember? A picture of "in"? A "goldmember"?
Whaaaaaaat.
I don't think it's wrong to insist on right answers. Where we disagree is on whether the answer they gave was right. I think it was an acceptable answer (although not exactly what was in the 4th box) but you don't.
Interestingly in tonight's show VCM actually specified in the Trivial Pursuit sequence question that she would only accept an exact answer for that question. The fact it was felt necessary to specify that suggests that in other questions there is some leeway - which is exactly what happened last week.