Did it dawn on you while you were trying out if you could get the job and experimenting how it would go , that other people were also interviewing ?
Maybe by you being offered a job you know you cant totally confirm someone else missed out on an offer ?
Its fine seeing if you get a job despite not being able to do the hours but you dilly dallying might just be someones elses heartache
The shame of it is that someone who really wanted the job and would work the hours may have been robbed of the opportunity.
As a recruiter these sort of things don't sit comfortably with us. Also the other employees will see a new joiner getting what they could see as preferential treatment which won't go down well.
You went on a fishing trip to see if you could get the job, you did and had the option to turn it down.
BIB - I bet it doesn't - due to the lost commission!
OP - Remember that an interview is a chance for both sides to see if the company/job/person fits. Don't feel guilty about having gone for the interview. Just ask them if they can be flexible about the hours - it's no different to negotiating salary or any other part of the job. Just be prepared for them to say no.
I think they might just mean "someone who recruits new staff" rather than "a professional who finds personnel for a third party".
Yes recruiter/HR staff. It is incredibly annoying to go through a recruitment process, you think you've found someone suitable and then the candidate decides to drop this bombshell. The saving grace here is the OP hasn't accepted and started the job yet, which would have been much worse.
That legislation applies to blacklisting people because they are members of a trade union or take part in industrial action etc
Any 'official' blacklist breaks the data protection act though I'd think - they may exist in secret - but I find that whole approach rather nasty.
I find it incredibly ironic that recruiters are complaining about job hunters tactics on here - it's a jungle of there own making, all they care about is the fee, just like any other agent..
I think they might just mean "someone who recruits new staff" rather than "a professional who finds personnel for a third party".
But recruitment agents have changed the recruitment market just like estate agents and footballer agents have changed their markets.
A recruiter looking for their own staff might morally deserve better than an agency trawling - but so should a family looking for a home against buy to letters and other speculators.
Not illegal for a company to tell a person to never apply to them again after said person wasting their time. The fact is in this case the OP got offered the job only because of his/her deception. If the OP or any other person took the job and then their deception was found out at a later time it is grounds for immediate dismissal. In this case the OP was offered the job knowing full well they could not meet the outlined requirements, this effectively took a job away from someone who could meet the outlined requirements. Thus I would never consider the OP for any position within my company again as whats to stop them doing the exact same thing in the future?
Not illegal for a company to tell a person to never apply to them again after said person wasting their time. The fact is in this case the OP got offered the job only because of his/her deception. If the OP or any other person took the job and then their deception was found out at a later time it is grounds for immediate dismissal. In this case the OP was offered the job knowing full well they could not meet the outlined requirements, this effectively took a job away from someone who could meet the outlined requirements. Thus I would never consider the OP for any position within my company again as whats to stop them doing the exact same thing in the future?
This is basically rubbish. No decent company would operate like this.
Being offered a job and then negotiating acceptance of it on a different basis is perfectly acceptable and employers do it all the time. In any event it certainly wouldn't be grounds for immediate dismissal if after acceptance the op was found to have not been open about availability during interview.
The Op will either come to an agreement with the company about hours and accept the job, or they won't and the job will become available to another applicant, effectively not taking any job away from anyone.
There's some right weird bollocks being posted on this thread.
Any 'official' blacklist breaks the data protection act though I'd think - they may exist in secret - but I find that whole approach rather nasty.
I find it incredibly ironic that recruiters are complaining about job hunters tactics on here - it's a jungle of there own making, all they care about is the fee, just like any other agent..
Recruitment consultants are very different to in-house recruitment staff. I certainly get no "fee"
OP: Have you spoken to your existing employer to see if there is a way you could change your hours with them? This could allow you to except the second job without having to request different hours?
In my view you shouldn't apply for a job unless you know you can do the hours stated or are willing to accept the salary offered. It's still an employers market and they know that they could find someone else who will accept the terms offered. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the job offer is withdrawn.
As far as applying again is concerned the company doesn't have to tell the applicants anything. If you have messed them around before you simply won't be shortlisted again.
Sorry but you should have told them at interview about the restrictions you have. You did not do so, thus you were offered the job due to your deception. You need to come clean and accept the withdrawal of the offer.
Me personally as an employer I would immediately fire you unless this is a specialist position and blacklist you for wasting company time.
Technically, they would needed to have hired me first to be able to fire me. Thus, all they could have done was to withdraw the offer and give the job to someone else.
OP: Have you spoken to your existing employer to see if there is a way you could change your hours with them? This could allow you to except the second job without having to request different hours?
Yes, I did speak with my current employer but as we're quite a small team and as it does tend to get especially busy at weekends, this wasn't really viable and in any case, I don't want to compromise my commitment to my current job.
Did it dawn on you while you were trying out if you could get the job and experimenting how it would go , that other people were also interviewing ?
Maybe by you being offered a job you know you cant totally confirm someone else missed out on an offer ?
Its fine seeing if you get a job despite not being able to do the hours but you dilly dallying might just be someones elses heartache
I'm sorry if I'm reading a slightly aggressive tone to your post that isn't there but I wasn't dilly dallying around; I was genuinely interested in the role and just wanted to see if I could get some leeway with the exact hours.
Also, I admit to being pretty inexperienced with the recruitment process in general. However, I am quite certain that they wouldn't have told any of the other candidates that the outcome until I actually accepted the job offer, which I didn't in the end (if it makes you feel any better).
You can call it jumping before being pushed or whatever you like, but I decided to withdraw my application before they informed me of whether they could accommodate my hours. Regardless of how I saw it before and how valid or not that way of seeing it is, I felt that I hadn't 'earned' the job offer on the right terms having not been more forthright about that particular issue at the interview stage, and - even if they had decided they could accommodate me and persisted with the offer - wouldn't have felt comfortable accepting it.
I think this response is too harsh. I have often found on forums that people react in a bizarrely extreme manner - it seems people have to be very polarised in their opinions sometimes on the internet rather than looking at things from a normal, rational, and reasonable perspective.
The OP hasn't even accepted the offer yet, and no-one has been robbed of anything. Even if the OP accepts the job but then the hours cannot be accommodated, the panel will most likely go to their first reserve and offer them the job. There's a chance that candidate may have been offered another job in the meantime, but there's also a high chance they haven't and would still be delighted to accept.
Whatever the other employees might have issues with is no concern to someone new; you negotiate/accept the terms of your role directly with your line manager/higher up and if other employees have problems with that it's up to them to raise an issue (or indeed to have [already] asked for flexibility in hours if that's what they wanted, for example).
OP: I am slightly confused as to your circumstances but may not have read your posts thoroughly enough. You already have a very part-time role in the morning that you don't wish to give up. The job you've been offered overlaps by half an hour. Plus you are a student, so presumably the rest of your time is spent on classes/studying. Was your intention always to get another job in the afternoons to supplement your morning wage? Or is all of this somehow tied in to your studies? How important is the afternoon job (the one that's been offered) to you in terms of the content/type of job - is it only the start time that's problematic?
As people have said I think it will be highly dependent on the nature of the role (e.g. whether it's an office job where a start time can more easily be moved versus a centre where you have to clock in/out at specific times with the rest of your shift). There are lots of other options for flexible working as people have mentioned - e.g. making the time up at lunch, staying late, or perhaps just reducing your contract overall - but all of these are dependent on other factors (e.g. cover needed) and again the type of role/organisation.
Personally I do think flexibility should be a key factor in the workplace and there is normally always a way around someone's other commitments, but I am looking at this from my HR perspective in a large organisation whereas a smaller and more operational company may find it harder to implement.
Thank you and most of the others who have replied for your more objective, rational perspectives.
Without going too much into the specifics of the jobs, that was my intention but neither of them are tied to my studies. At the moment, it's the summer holidays so I have no classes or studying to do. The one that was offered would have been quite similar to my current one, except I would have learned how to operate new machinery, but apart from that I wouldn't have picked up that many new skills but I think I would have enjoyed it, knowing how much of a contribution it makes to the running of the place. The start time was the only thing that was problematic and from what they described at the interview, I believe cover could possibly have been arranged but I decided not to take the offer.
Technically, they would needed to have hired me first to be able to fire me. Thus, all they could have done was to withdraw the offer and give the job to someone else.
Yes, I did speak with my current employer but as we're quite a small team and as it does tend to get especially busy at weekends, this wasn't really viable and in any case, I don't want to compromise my commitment to my current job.
I'm sorry if I'm reading a slightly aggressive tone to your post that isn't there but I wasn't dilly dallying around; I was genuinely interested in the role and just wanted to see if I could get some leeway with the exact hours.
Also, I admit to being pretty inexperienced with the recruitment process in general. However, I am quite certain that they wouldn't have told any of the other candidates that the outcome until I actually accepted the job offer, which I didn't in the end (if it makes you feel any better).
You can call it jumping before being pushed or whatever you like, but I decided to withdraw my application before they informed me of whether they could accommodate my hours. Regardless of how I saw it before and how valid or not that way of seeing it is, I felt that I hadn't 'earned' the job offer on the right terms having not been more forthright about that particular issue at the interview stage, and - even if they had decided they could accommodate me and persisted with the offer - wouldn't have felt comfortable accepting it.
Thank you and most of the others who have replied for your more objective, rational perspectives.
r.
Well you asked for opinions and it seems you only liked one kind of opinion .I gave mine and it seems I was aggressive ? No I wasnt aggressive , I was being honest . I must say if one of my own lot went to an interview knowing the hours didnt suit and didnt mehntion it I would be quite displeased with them .
But there you go , its my opinion and I stand by it
I base my opinion on your OP and I quote this
""The reason I didn’t mention it, despite obviously being aware of the hours, was because I wanted to see how I would fare on the basis of my performance at the interview alone; I didn’t want my need for flexibility to be a reason for them not to consider me for the role. In short, I wanted to see if I could get the job offer without that being a factor and probably also thought that I could possibly negotiate the hours in the event of an offer."""
You wanted to see how it would go for you, fair enough , but maybe others were cancelled when they interviewed you .Who knows ?
Just to put the record straight having not been on here for a few days - and thank you to others who put their own thoughts forward - I am an HR Business Partner and part of my role is to recruit new employees on behalf of the companies I work with, who range from small to large across a range of industries.
I do wish the OP success in their studies and future career.
Comments
That legislation applies to blacklisting people because they are members of a trade union or take part in industrial action etc
Maybe by you being offered a job you know you cant totally confirm someone else missed out on an offer ?
Its fine seeing if you get a job despite not being able to do the hours but you dilly dallying might just be someones elses heartache
BIB - I bet it doesn't - due to the lost commission!
OP - Remember that an interview is a chance for both sides to see if the company/job/person fits. Don't feel guilty about having gone for the interview. Just ask them if they can be flexible about the hours - it's no different to negotiating salary or any other part of the job. Just be prepared for them to say no.
Yes recruiter/HR staff. It is incredibly annoying to go through a recruitment process, you think you've found someone suitable and then the candidate decides to drop this bombshell. The saving grace here is the OP hasn't accepted and started the job yet, which would have been much worse.
Any 'official' blacklist breaks the data protection act though I'd think - they may exist in secret - but I find that whole approach rather nasty.
I find it incredibly ironic that recruiters are complaining about job hunters tactics on here - it's a jungle of there own making, all they care about is the fee, just like any other agent..
But recruitment agents have changed the recruitment market just like estate agents and footballer agents have changed their markets.
A recruiter looking for their own staff might morally deserve better than an agency trawling - but so should a family looking for a home against buy to letters and other speculators.
Not illegal for a company to tell a person to never apply to them again after said person wasting their time. The fact is in this case the OP got offered the job only because of his/her deception. If the OP or any other person took the job and then their deception was found out at a later time it is grounds for immediate dismissal. In this case the OP was offered the job knowing full well they could not meet the outlined requirements, this effectively took a job away from someone who could meet the outlined requirements. Thus I would never consider the OP for any position within my company again as whats to stop them doing the exact same thing in the future?
This is basically rubbish. No decent company would operate like this.
Being offered a job and then negotiating acceptance of it on a different basis is perfectly acceptable and employers do it all the time. In any event it certainly wouldn't be grounds for immediate dismissal if after acceptance the op was found to have not been open about availability during interview.
The Op will either come to an agreement with the company about hours and accept the job, or they won't and the job will become available to another applicant, effectively not taking any job away from anyone.
There's some right weird bollocks being posted on this thread.
Recruitment consultants are very different to in-house recruitment staff. I certainly get no "fee"
As far as applying again is concerned the company doesn't have to tell the applicants anything. If you have messed them around before you simply won't be shortlisted again.
Yes, I did speak with my current employer but as we're quite a small team and as it does tend to get especially busy at weekends, this wasn't really viable and in any case, I don't want to compromise my commitment to my current job.
I'm sorry if I'm reading a slightly aggressive tone to your post that isn't there but I wasn't dilly dallying around; I was genuinely interested in the role and just wanted to see if I could get some leeway with the exact hours.
Also, I admit to being pretty inexperienced with the recruitment process in general. However, I am quite certain that they wouldn't have told any of the other candidates that the outcome until I actually accepted the job offer, which I didn't in the end (if it makes you feel any better).
You can call it jumping before being pushed or whatever you like, but I decided to withdraw my application before they informed me of whether they could accommodate my hours. Regardless of how I saw it before and how valid or not that way of seeing it is, I felt that I hadn't 'earned' the job offer on the right terms having not been more forthright about that particular issue at the interview stage, and - even if they had decided they could accommodate me and persisted with the offer - wouldn't have felt comfortable accepting it.
Thank you and most of the others who have replied for your more objective, rational perspectives.
Without going too much into the specifics of the jobs, that was my intention but neither of them are tied to my studies. At the moment, it's the summer holidays so I have no classes or studying to do. The one that was offered would have been quite similar to my current one, except I would have learned how to operate new machinery, but apart from that I wouldn't have picked up that many new skills but I think I would have enjoyed it, knowing how much of a contribution it makes to the running of the place. The start time was the only thing that was problematic and from what they described at the interview, I believe cover could possibly have been arranged but I decided not to take the offer.
Well you asked for opinions and it seems you only liked one kind of opinion .I gave mine and it seems I was aggressive ? No I wasnt aggressive , I was being honest . I must say if one of my own lot went to an interview knowing the hours didnt suit and didnt mehntion it I would be quite displeased with them .
But there you go , its my opinion and I stand by it
I base my opinion on your OP and I quote this
""The reason I didn’t mention it, despite obviously being aware of the hours, was because I wanted to see how I would fare on the basis of my performance at the interview alone; I didn’t want my need for flexibility to be a reason for them not to consider me for the role. In short, I wanted to see if I could get the job offer without that being a factor and probably also thought that I could possibly negotiate the hours in the event of an offer."""
You wanted to see how it would go for you, fair enough , but maybe others were cancelled when they interviewed you .Who knows ?
I do wish the OP success in their studies and future career.