Scottish independence: let's have an honest debate (P3)

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  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,358
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    I see Anne Begg (the disabled labour MP) had NO posters uprooted from her garden.

    Whatever happened to democracy?
  • James2001James2001 Posts: 73,421
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    Aidy wrote: »
    I see Anne Begg (the disabled labour MP) had NO posters uprooted from her garden.

    Whatever happened to democracy?

    In the minds of Yessers it doesn't seem to exist, there seems to be a total effort to silence and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with them.
  • Hit Em Up StyleHit Em Up Style Posts: 12,141
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    In some ways Yes winning and then everything falling apart could be funny to watch as the SNPs reputation would be in tatters. We don't know if the EU will let Scotland in, we don't know what currency Scotland will have, we do know that no currency union will happen and we do have predictions of markets crashing and businesses leaving.

    If all that comes to pass will the people who voted Yes feel cheated and demand another referendum? they are voting on what are empty promises and if its really close like the polls suggest contesting the result would be easy if enough of a fuss was made.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,546
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    James2001 wrote: »
    In the minds of Yessers it doesn't seem to exist, there seems to be a total effort to silence and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with them.

    In the minds of some Yessers perhaps.
  • mimik1ukmimik1uk Posts: 46,701
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    In some ways Yes winning and then everything falling apart could be funny to watch as the SNPs reputation would be in tatters.

    not gonna agree with the "funny" aspect of that statement , even tho I have obviously been advocating a NO vote if come Friday YES have won I am still Scottish and will want the best possible outcome for my country

    the part of me that is interested in politics is going to be interested how things pan out over the next 5 years or so, both in Scotland and in the rest of the UK as a YES vote is going to significantly change the dynamics of politics across the whole UK and as someone who has always been intrigued by the mechanics of the political process it will be interesting to watch
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    Hammy wrote: »
    Nothing dodgy about it at all in relation too Salmond, neither he nor SNP were involved in the initial agreement to buy land.

    The GARL was a Lab / LIB Dem project before SNP came to power.
    In 2006 the Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (chaired by Labour councillor Alistair McLean, who later resigned from SPT amid an expenses scandal) agreed to buy the land for the project at £840,000.
    When SNP came too power they inherited the deal and completed the purchase.
    In 2009 due too budgetary constraints project was cancelled.
    Due to UK Government rules the SG were forced too sell the land, nobody bought land at auction, McGlynn offered the reserved price and bought land.

    I never forgave the SNP for cancelling the Glasgow airport rail link. It was done out of spite.
  • bhoy07bhoy07 Posts: 25,036
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    So would iScotland's response to IS be to wait for permission from Russia and China before agreeing to take action?
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    bhoy07 wrote: »
    Like tax cuts for big business

    Sillars has stated quite clearly that the banks and big business (in particular oil companies) will face a day of reckoning. Quite how and what damage he intends to inflict is not clear. This all sounds great if you are a socialist worker type but if you work for a living in Scotland and Salmond wins, the writing is on the wall folks.
  • Dave1979Dave1979 Posts: 1,804
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    James2001 wrote: »
    In the minds of Yessers it doesn't seem to exist, there seems to be a total effort to silence and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with them.

    There was always going to be idiots on both sides and they are the ones that get the headlines
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    In some ways Yes winning and then everything falling apart could be funny to watch as the SNPs reputation would be in tatters. We don't know if the EU will let Scotland in, we don't know what currency Scotland will have, we do know that no currency union will happen and we do have predictions of markets crashing and businesses leaving.

    If all that comes to pass will the people who voted Yes feel cheated and demand another referendum? they are voting on what are empty promises and if its really close like the polls suggest contesting the result would be easy if enough of a fuss was made.

    I am starting the think along the same lines. I almost want to see Salmond win this referendum. I will buy a years supply of popcorn and just spend each evening watching Salmond being bounced from one major crisis to another but with nobody to blame but himself. Within a years time, when the lights start to go out, Salmonds hated 'big-business' (employers to the rest of us) have had enough of high taxes and we are well in to economic meltdown I believe that there will be calls from all parties to hold another referendum asking that we are allowed to join the UK. When Polish people and others from the EU are allowed to vote on what my nationality will be but other Scots living Britain are denied a vote, a Yes win will have no legitemacy at all since they could even take power with less that half of the available votes being cast in their favour.
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    bhoy07 wrote: »
    So would iScotland's response to IS be to wait for permission from Russia and China before agreeing to take action?

    Russian nuclear subs moving into Faslane if Salmond wins !?:o
  • bhoy07bhoy07 Posts: 25,036
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    Tommy Sheridan hypocrisy being exposed by Andrew Neil.
  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,358
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    Tommy Sheridan talking about politicians lying....guess he doesn't understand irony!
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    JCR wrote: »
    Heh.

    That's the problem with the SNP, they want to be everything to everyone, but newsflash- you can't be anti big business and in bed with Rupert Murdoch at the same time. And not forgetting the SNP's commitment to re-regulate the bus network was dropped after Brian Souter gave them £500,000.

    If yes wins, there are going to be a whole load of disappointed people and an SNP at war with itself.

    I believe Faslane is going to be a real battle ground. A very significant percentage of SNP members do not follow Salmonds outdated 'ban-the-bomb' message especially since many of the people they represent work there or benefit indirectly. Salmonds constituency of Banff and Buchan is far away from Faslane so none of his pals will be losing their jobs, so no problem for him. Unlike Salmond, the workers at Faslane dont have a lucrative Holyrood expense account to fall back on.
  • bhoy07bhoy07 Posts: 25,036
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    Tommy Sheridan reminded that his views got 8k votes in 2011 and the campaign he supports is in bed with the millionaires like Brian Souter etc.. And Rupert Murdoch, the response was in effect 'I'm not bothered about that'
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    Aidy wrote: »
    Tommy Sheridan talking about politicians lying....guess he doesn't understand irony!

    I had to mute the sound. This had a strange effect because it concentrates the mind on his body language which is obviously well rehearsed. Having watched him but not heard him I believe he is showing the symptoms of Parkinsons desease.
  • Mc256Mc256 Posts: 362
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    I never forgave the SNP for cancelling the Glasgow airport rail link. It was done out of spite.

    Adding insult to injury the land was sold on at a knock down prices sending thousands of taxpayers money down the drain.
  • AidyAidy Posts: 2,358
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    bhoy07 wrote: »
    Tommy Sheridan reminded that his views got 8k votes in 2011 and the campaign he supports is in bed with the millionaires like Brian Souter etc.. And Rupert Murdoch, the response was in effect 'I'm not bothered about that'

    I particularly liked his 'I'm still here and his paper is shut' comment.

    Shows that, as ever with Tommy, it's all about him...egotistical (insert whatever word you feel is appropriate).

    As Jim Royle would say - Socialist my a£$e.
  • Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    In some ways Yes winning and then everything falling apart could be funny to watch as the SNPs reputation would be in tatters. We don't know if the EU will let Scotland in, we don't know what currency Scotland will have, we do know that no currency union will happen and we do have predictions of markets crashing and businesses leaving.

    If all that comes to pass will the people who voted Yes feel cheated and demand another referendum? they are voting on what are empty promises and if its really close like the polls suggest contesting the result would be easy if enough of a fuss was made.

    Yeah, I kind of agree, but I wouldn't want to see the sensible people in Scotland having to suffer because of the decisions of deluded nationalists.

    I have a feeling that people's gut instincts will take over at the polling both and there'll be a majority 'no'. That would be a lot more satisfying as El Presidente-in-waiting slinks into the corner somewhere.
  • The infidelThe infidel Posts: 3,826
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    Salmond lying about defaulting again in his usual passive-aggresive way. The UK govt said they would pay our share if we default due to economic collapse. The UK govt said this is in order to protect the UK AND Scotland They didnt say they would pay it because Salmond didnt want to pay. If Salmond carries out this threat he will do great and irepairable damage and bring great shame on this country.
  • taskertasker Posts: 4,048
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    As to just taking military personnel from the UK Armed Forces into a Scottish one, its a joke surely?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754901/Salmond-demands-10bn-tartan-army-Ships-jets-helicopters-troops-SNP-s-sights-Scotland-votes-Yes.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

    All of those personnel are contracted to the UK, they wont just be transferred against their own will.

    For starters, you cant just transfer non Scots in the Forces to be in the Scottish military and secondly you cant force a Scottish UK citizen to transfer either.

    Its going to take a long long time to build up any Scottish military force from the ground up, especially the more technical Air Force and Navy elements.

    So Mr Salmond wants the submarines out of Scotland that kill lots of people (yet still hasn't told the Scottish people about the thousands of jobs that will go with them), but DEMANDS ships and Typhoon jets that oh yeh kill people.
    He is on a shopping trip of a lifetime, mine, mine, mine, mine,don't like that, don't like that.
    I am at the point where i hope it happens now, just so i can stand at Hadrian s wall (reminder get quotes to rebuild it properly this time) and shout ha ha told you so, BYE :D
  • james_killroyjames_killroy Posts: 1,210
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    Scotland will not get into the EU as at least two countries will veto it. This will create all sorts of problems as you can't get EU entry unless all member states agree.

    No currency union is on the cards.

    Scotland is going to have no central bank, no currency of its own and basically be left standing all on its own.

    I have no doubt that when the honey moon is over and reality hits, England will come help us out. The issues with that is will the English tax payers be happy about it.

    If its as close as 1% please remember half of the country didn't want independence from you. We don't want this.
  • Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    tasker wrote: »
    So Mr Salmond wants the submarines out of Scotland that kill lots of people (yet still hasn't told the Scottish people about the thousands of jobs that will go with them), but DEMANDS ships and Typhoon jets that oh yeh kill people.
    He is on a shopping trip of a lifetime, mine, mine, mine, mine,don't like that, don't like that.
    I am at the point where i hope it happens now, just so i can stand at Hadrian s wall (reminder get quotes to rebuild it properly this time) and shout ha ha told you so, BYE :D

    Letter from the Ministry of Defence to El Presidente Salmond:

    "Dear El President,

    If you want any of our military resources, please feel free to try and take them.

    Yours sincerely,

    The MOD."
  • taskertasker Posts: 4,048
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    Not bias just facts and a good article.

    Bet He doesn't want the Scots to read this kind of thing, because as we know it's all going to be wonderful :cool: (they are rose tinted btw).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11092247/Scotland-referendum-45-money-questions-answered.html
  • Hit Em Up StyleHit Em Up Style Posts: 12,141
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    Scotland will not get into the EU as at least two countries will veto it. This will create all sorts of problems as you can't get EU entry unless all member states agree.

    No currency union is on the cards.

    Scotland is going to have no central bank, no currency of its own and basically be left standing all on its own.

    I have no doubt that when the honey moon is over and reality hits, England will come help us out. The issues with that is will the English tax payers be happy about it.

    If its as close as 1% please remember half of the country didn't want independence from you. We don't want this.

    If this happened it would come at a cost to Scotland. They would have to give something in return. I doubt any Westminster government would lend to iScotland unless they were getting something back.

    Its ironic that independence might make Scotland even less independent in the long run.

    What's alarming to me is how all the warnings are just being disregarded as bullying and scaremongering. Is that how Salmond will behave on the world stage? Obama/Merkel refuses him something, will Salmond brand them bullies I wonder.. seems to be his fave word.
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