If that's the case then why not give up work and go on benefits then you too can live this life of luxury 24/7?
I know the answer - it's because you have pride and want to pay your own way, but if you *really* believed they were living a better life than you wouldn't you at least consider it?
People (not you) always say things like, 'I wish I got paid to stay at home and drink and smoke and watch Sky TV all day'. I can't think of anything worse. To me, living like that is a serious indication that their lives are very poor indeed.
Plus the fact that if life on benefits was truly better than working then how come everybody isn't at it? People who say things like, 'I wish I could get paid to sit around all day smoking and watching tv' my response to that is, 'Well you can if you want to. Just pack your job in and go on benefits and let's see how you feel about this life of luxury then eh.'
Fact is they wont because they know full well that life on benefits is shit but at the same time these people would also deny them any bit of luxury they have and would sooner see them miserable. It's jealousy all said and done. Someone appears to be getting something which I have to work hard for. The same goes when a disabled person gets certain benefits or privileges like motorbility vehicles. These people seem to resent them from having something which they're not entitled to yet can't grasp that in exchange for those privileges they have to cope with a lifetime of not being able to walk. Which would you sooner have; benefits or the ability to walk?
Not sure why you felt the need to bring ipads and tv's into it. Yet again the same old digs at people on benefits just because they happen to have things which you clearly resent them from owning. Sorry but you clearly have issues with people owning these things otherwise why would you even mention them?
Do you honestly believe that people on benefits can afford 50 inch plasmas and ipads just like that? Chances are these things have either been purchased by money already saved or bought them before they lost their job or paying for them on a long term interest free credit repayment plan or maybe they were Christmas presents from someone else. Maybe they fell off the back of a van but really the truth of it is, you have absolutely no idea how how they came by these things but if someone chooses to spend their benefits saving up for a luxury item rather than spend the money on keeping their house clean then that's up to them.
Incidentally how do you spot a career benefits person from someone who is on long term sick with mental health issues or someone with kids who can't afford to return to work until the kids start school? All these career benefit spotters should get a job as a psychic as they seem to be able to read minds.
Yes I do have an issue with it. I thought I made that clear so throwing at me in some kind of accusatory tone as if I should be ashamed won't wash with me as I am not.
My issue is very clear I am working and can't afford these items but the career benefits people can without working and in one of your other posts you insinuated it's because these working people have debts. I don't.
I don't claim to be able to spot the genuine from the non genuine and I have made it clear I don't have an issue with genuine claimants.
There really is no need for the sarcasm if you're feeling bad about my post because you have posted about not working because you are better off on the dole that is your issue, and not mine.
No you haven't. You've just made wild accusations and unfounded assumptions about people's finances which you known nothing about.
If you are talking about people who are claiming stuff they are not entitled to then fine but people who legally claim money which is rightfully theirs to claim does not give you the right to label them scroungers. You have no idea why some families don't work. Maybe they have an illness or a physical or a learning disability which isn't immediately obvious to others or maybe they are stuck in a poverty trap and can't afford to take the low wage part time jobs offered to them because it would mean being worse off. Maybe they can't find work or are not qualified enough to do other jobs and can't afford to pay to retrain themselves. This was a problem I had when I was on Jobseekers. I needed to go back to college to get more qualifications to get a better chance of finding a job but in order to do so I'd have to sign off and pay for the course myself. I couldn't afford to. You need an NVQ just to clean toilets these days.
Yes you may well get some people which don't want to work but they are small minority and I don't think it's immediately obvious just by looking at someone and making your own assumptions about them and their financial status which you know nothing about. It's highly unfair to label someone a Dole dosser or a benefit scrounger when you don't know their personal or financial circumstances.
i HAVE addressed every point youve made here, im not going to repeat myself yet again. you have just re-worded your original point. if you care to read back, my attack was focused on benefit scroungers, the ones who are career benefit people. i have been most specific in this, and no, i dont know everyones circumstances, and neither do YOU. in fact if you imagine that they are ALL genuine guys fallen on hard times, then you are being foolish. career benefit people exists.
But their is a system in place to stop this, so how are they playing the system. They have to prove that they are doing everything to find work, and will have their money stopped by the DWP if they are not doing everything the DWP tell them to do. The only thing the DWP will not do is punish people for not looking at ZHC jobs, or for not taking a job on ZHC.
...because im not on about jsa, thats only 1 benefit. in on about the idle, who claim backache, im on about the likes of cr@zy chr1s who claims depression (but still comes on here to argue and wind up), i know 2 families in this road who know how to get the most from the system, why? because they dont want to work.
What I don't understand is how people can possibly think that people on benefits have a better quality of life or better standard of living than people who work. Just because someone has a Smart TV, an Ipad or a games console does not mean they have a good quality of life. Do people really look at those on 'Benefits Street' and think that spending all day smoking and drinking in a rundown house on a rundown street in Birmingham with no hope of it ever changing is a higher standard of living than they have? They must have very low standards.
If anything 'Benefits Street' should be opening people's eyes to just how low the standard of living is for those who are trapped on benefits and we should be addressing that, not moaning that we can't afford the same 'luxuries'. I'll take a living in a nice area and having prospects above the so called luxuries they have, thanks. I don't have an Ipad, but I certainly have a better quality of life than many who do. Gadgets are not an indicator of a good life.
the only error with your reasoning is that you are supposing everyone on benefits are like those on that tv programme.... they arent... most are decent guys fallen on hard times, others are deliberately playing the system, claiming for things that cannot be disproven , some are on a much better lifestyle then many who work... again i point you to 'wife swap' where a farmer who works 60 hours at least a week was worse off then a lesbian lady who was on benefits.
there isnt 1 type, 1 model, for benefits people... im only berating the scroungers, the lazy bone idle buggers... like mick phillpot.
Plus the fact that if life on benefits was truly better than working then how come everybody isn't at it? People who say things like, 'I wish I could get paid to sit around all day smoking and watching tv' my response to that is, 'Well you can if you want to. Just pack your job in and go on benefits and let's see how you feel about this life of luxury then eh.'
Fact is they wont because they know full well that life on benefits is shit but at the same time these people would also deny them any bit of luxury they have and would sooner see them miserable. It's jealousy all said and done. Someone appears to be getting something which I have to work hard for. The same goes when a disabled person gets certain benefits or privileges like motorbility vehicles. These people seem to resent them from having something which they're not entitled to yet can't grasp that in exchange for those privileges they have to cope with a lifetime of not being able to walk. Which would you sooner have; benefits or the ability to walk?
People have issues with it as a 50" flat screen TVs and Xbox One's are not essential items. If you fall on hard times then you sell the items, and replace them with cheaper options. Freecycle has plenty of CRT televisions and older games consoles. Same with mobile phones, no one needs an iPhone, an old Nokia brick will do for the purpose of taking and making calls.
I'm all for helping people, but they have to show willingness to help themselves first and foremost.
and if they have "fallen on hard times" they have presumably already helped themselves by paying into the system.
Genuine question, how do you know if they are career benefits claimants? They might just be good at finding cheap second hand goods etc, have them left over from employment days. Is the way to tell none career benefit claimants because they are living in abject poverty?
I am not trying to be clever I just do not understand how people can pick out career benefits claimants, when they are all assessed and paid the same rates for each different benefit?
How do you know who is genuine and who is not?
I don't and I have not claimed to be able to know either. I don't know what the answer is and I don't claim to have it. I am just voicing my personal opinion about career benefits people.
Yes I do have an issue with it. I thought I made that clear so throwing at me in some kind of accusatory tone as if I should be ashamed won't wash with me as I am not.
My issue is very clear I am working and can't afford these items but the career benefits people can without working and in one of your other posts you insinuated it's because these working people have debts. I don't.
I don't claim to be able to spot the genuine from the non genuine and I have made it clear I don't have an issue with genuine claimants.
There really is no need for the sarcasm if you're feeling bad about my post because you have posted about not working because you are better off on the dole that is your issue, and not mine.
well said...
im not sure why some here want to make excuses for the scroungers, who are taking money out of the pot for genuine people..
Plus the fact that if life on benefits was truly better than working then how come everybody isn't at it? People who say things like, 'I wish I could get paid to sit around all day smoking and watching tv' my response to that is, 'Well you can if you want to. Just pack your job in and go on benefits and let's see how you feel about this life of luxury then eh.'
Fact is they wont because they know full well that life on benefits is shit but at the same time these people would also deny them any bit of luxury they have and would sooner see them miserable. It's jealousy all said and done. Someone appears to be getting something which I have to work hard for. The same goes when a disabled person gets certain benefits or privileges like motorbility vehicles. These people seem to resent them from having something which they're not entitled to yet can't grasp that in exchange for those privileges they have to cope with a lifetime of not being able to walk. Which would you sooner have; benefits or the ability to walk?
No one would deny a genuine claimant any money they are entitled to have. To resort to saying people would deny the disabled their benefits and the walking thing is very below the belt and ridiculous. You're just being ridiculous now.
There is a huge difference between being resentful of lazy work shy people sitting around on their ipads and genuine claimants. Most of us know this why don't you?
i HAVE addressed every point youve made here, im not going to repeat myself yet again. you have just re-worded your original point. if you care to read back, my attack was focused on benefit scroungers, the ones who are career benefit people. i have been most specific in this, and no, i dont know everyones circumstances, and neither do YOU. in fact if you imagine that they are ALL genuine guys fallen on hard times, then you are being foolish. career benefit people exists.
...because im not on about jsa, thats only 1 benefit. in on about the idle, who claim backache, im on about the likes of cr@zy chr1s who claims depression (but still comes on here to argue and wind up), i know 2 families in this road who know how to get the most from the system, why? because they dont want to work.
the only error with your reasoning is that you are supposing everyone on benefits are like those on that tv programme.... they arent... most are decent guys fallen on hard times, others are deliberately playing the system, claiming for things that cannot be disproven , some are on a much better lifestyle then many who work... again i point you to 'wife swap' where a farmer who works 60 hours at least a week was worse off then a lesbian lady who was on benefits.
there isnt 1 type, 1 model, for benefits people... im only berating the scroungers, the lazy bone idle buggers... like mick phillpot.
No, I am definitely not. I don't know a single person on benefits that is like the people on benefit street. Then again, I don't know any with a load of luxury electricals either. The right wing media are the ones who have decided on a one size fits all depiction of benefit claimants because they seek to demonise every single one regardless of the circumstances that put them where they are. My point was more general about people's perception of quality of life and how it could possibly be argued that people on benefits have a higher quality of life than people working. Generally speaking, it can't.
im not sure why some here want to make excuses for the scroungers, who are taking money out of the pot for genuine people..
Possibly because like the Wizard they have posted they are better off not working and maybe feel some guilt I don't know but I am not attacking any genuine claimant. How the genuine people struggle is wrong. How the career benefits people prosper is wrong. I would have also thought people would want that ammended on benefits or not.
No one would deny a genuine claimant any money they are entitled to have. To resort to saying people would deny the disabled their benefits and the walking thing is very below the belt and ridiculous. You're just being ridiculous now.
There is a huge difference between being resentful of lazy work shy people sitting around on their ipads and genuine claimants. Most of us know this why don't you?
99% of claimants are genuine, and are entitled to the benefits they get. Benefit fraud is actually very low.
im not sure why some here want to make excuses for the scroungers, who are taking money out of the pot for genuine people..
Noone seeks to defend people who are claiming fraudulently or who are on benefits because they can't be arsed to work. We just object to all claimants being tarred with the same brush when it is simply not possible to tell one group from another at a superficial level, such as by looking at how many Ipads they have or when they last had a holiday.
I envy the lifestyle of "luxury" items that career benefits claimants seem to achieve. I don't envy the genuine claimants who cannot find work and get rejected on a daily basis. You can see the difference.
i HAVE addressed every point youve made here, im not going to repeat myself yet again. you have just re-worded your original point. if you care to read back, my attack was focused on benefit scroungers, the ones who are career benefit people. i have been most specific in this, and no, i dont know everyones circumstances, and neither do YOU. in fact if you imagine that they are ALL genuine guys fallen on hard times, then you are being foolish. career benefit people exists.
...because im not on about jsa, thats only 1 benefit. in on about the idle, who claim backache, im on about the likes of cr@zy chr1s who claims depression (but still comes on here to argue and wind up), i know 2 families in this road who know how to get the most from the system, why? because they dont want to work.
the only error with your reasoning is that you are supposing everyone on benefits are like those on that tv programme.... they arent... most are decent guys fallen on hard times, others are deliberately playing the system, claiming for things that cannot be disproven , some are on a much better lifestyle then many who work... again i point you to 'wife swap' where a farmer who works 60 hours at least a week was worse off then a lesbian lady who was on benefits.
there isnt 1 type, 1 model, for benefits people... im only berating the scroungers, the lazy bone idle buggers... like mick phillpot.
But there is a system in place, for these people also in on about the idle, who claim backache, they have to go for a medical on the WCA.
Plus the fact that if life on benefits was truly better than working then how come everybody isn't at it? People who say things like, 'I wish I could get paid to sit around all day smoking and watching tv' my response to that is, 'Well you can if you want to. Just pack your job in and go on benefits and let's see how you feel about this life of luxury then eh.'
Fact is they wont because they know full well that life on benefits is shit but at the same time these people would also deny them any bit of luxury they have and would sooner see them miserable. It's jealousy all said and done. Someone appears to be getting something which I have to work hard for. The same goes when a disabled person gets certain benefits or privileges like motorbility vehicles. These people seem to resent them from having something which they're not entitled to yet can't grasp that in exchange for those privileges they have to cope with a lifetime of not being able to walk. Which would you sooner have; benefits or the ability to walk?
because some of us have got pride, we were brought up by decent parents who told us 'if you want something you have to earn it'.. wheres the dunkirk spirit where everyone pulled together? the british trait of 'fair play'... in fact its the very spirit of fair play that was behind setting up the system to assist the less fortunate in society. which im all for... but equally im dead against career benefits people.
But there is a system in place, for these people also in on about the idle, who claim backache, they have to go for a medical on the WCA.
true, there is now (after many years of slackness), but you can still get around it. i could, ive had backache, i know how it effects you, i could convince them that i couldnt work..... but i can..
Perhaps if society wasn't so shallow as to think that possessions define a person then we would be able to see past the 'luxuries' to the real life underneath and have more empathy, eh?
I am supposed to defend being envious of someone who can afford stuff I cannot because they choose not to work? Are you trying to say I shouldn't? If so I don't really care. It's just my opinion is all
because some of us have got pride, we were brought up by decent parents who told us 'if you want something you have to earn it'.. wheres the dunkirk spirit where everyone pulled together? the british trait of 'fair play'... in fact its the very spirit of fair play that was behind setting up the system to assist the less fortunate in society. which im all for... but equally im dead against career benefits people.
Career benefits people? you mean people like full time carers claiming full benefits? I care 24/7 for 3 disbled people, I am on full benefits so do I meet your criteria?
That phrase is an insult to we carers who have a full time job on benefits. By the way, I get paid a pittance for my 'career' £55 a week to be precise,
because some of us have got pride, we were brought up by decent parents who told us 'if you want something you have to earn it'.. wheres the dunkirk spirit where everyone pulled together? the british trait of 'fair play'... in fact its the very spirit of fair play that was behind setting up the system to assist the less fortunate in society. which im all for... but equally im dead against career benefits people.
I agree fair play, where was the fairness for this poor chap:
Fairness works both ways and at the moment the government are treating the sick and vulnerable with utter contempt and I would sooner we have a few scroungers get away with a few quid than see more and more suicides of vulnerable people.
There is now no balance and no fairness, is it worth it, what civilised society allows it?
From my POV, I'd just say that you can take my ancient laptop, my £4.99 mobile, my 22" TV that's not even paid for yet, the £80 odd quid I get to live off each week, even my little dog BUT also take my distressing, lifelong disability and mental health issues, my bleak future and the knowledge that there are plenty of folk out there who consider me nothing but a worthless burden and would happily see me dead.
People have issues with it as a 50" flat screen TVs and Xbox One's are not essential items. If you fall on hard times then you sell the items, and replace them with cheaper options. Freecycle has plenty of CRT televisions and older games consoles. Same with mobile phones, no one needs an iPhone, an old Nokia brick will do for the purpose of taking and making calls.
I'm all for helping people, but they have to show willingness to help themselves first and foremost.
Are you serious? You honestly think that people on benefits should sell off all their luxury goods which they will probably get next to nothing for. Then go out and spend money replacing them with something basic. And when they go back to work they should then spend even more money buying them all back again. Do you seriously think this will make them any better off because if you do you clearly shouldn't be in charge of anyone's finances.
This is the kind of ridiculous statement I expect off benefit bashers.
true, there is now (after many years of slackness), but you can still get around it. i could, ive had backache, i know how it effects you, i could convince them that i couldnt work..... but i can..
Well there is a lot of evidence out there that say the, system that is in place now fails, because of the amount of people found fit for work when they are not.
I wouldn't know I haven't checked I'm just voicing my opinion on those who choose not to work.
I am supposed to defend being envious of someone who can afford stuff I cannot because they choose not to work? Are you trying to say I shouldn't? If so I don't really care. It's just my opinion is all
A single person on JSA under 25 gets £56, over 25 its £71 per week
Comments
Plus the fact that if life on benefits was truly better than working then how come everybody isn't at it? People who say things like, 'I wish I could get paid to sit around all day smoking and watching tv' my response to that is, 'Well you can if you want to. Just pack your job in and go on benefits and let's see how you feel about this life of luxury then eh.'
Fact is they wont because they know full well that life on benefits is shit but at the same time these people would also deny them any bit of luxury they have and would sooner see them miserable. It's jealousy all said and done. Someone appears to be getting something which I have to work hard for. The same goes when a disabled person gets certain benefits or privileges like motorbility vehicles. These people seem to resent them from having something which they're not entitled to yet can't grasp that in exchange for those privileges they have to cope with a lifetime of not being able to walk. Which would you sooner have; benefits or the ability to walk?
Yes I do have an issue with it. I thought I made that clear so throwing at me in some kind of accusatory tone as if I should be ashamed won't wash with me as I am not.
My issue is very clear I am working and can't afford these items but the career benefits people can without working and in one of your other posts you insinuated it's because these working people have debts. I don't.
I don't claim to be able to spot the genuine from the non genuine and I have made it clear I don't have an issue with genuine claimants.
There really is no need for the sarcasm if you're feeling bad about my post because you have posted about not working because you are better off on the dole that is your issue, and not mine.
i HAVE addressed every point youve made here, im not going to repeat myself yet again. you have just re-worded your original point. if you care to read back, my attack was focused on benefit scroungers, the ones who are career benefit people. i have been most specific in this, and no, i dont know everyones circumstances, and neither do YOU. in fact if you imagine that they are ALL genuine guys fallen on hard times, then you are being foolish. career benefit people exists.
...because im not on about jsa, thats only 1 benefit. in on about the idle, who claim backache, im on about the likes of cr@zy chr1s who claims depression (but still comes on here to argue and wind up), i know 2 families in this road who know how to get the most from the system, why? because they dont want to work.
the only error with your reasoning is that you are supposing everyone on benefits are like those on that tv programme.... they arent... most are decent guys fallen on hard times, others are deliberately playing the system, claiming for things that cannot be disproven , some are on a much better lifestyle then many who work... again i point you to 'wife swap' where a farmer who works 60 hours at least a week was worse off then a lesbian lady who was on benefits.
there isnt 1 type, 1 model, for benefits people... im only berating the scroungers, the lazy bone idle buggers... like mick phillpot.
Totally agree.
and if they have "fallen on hard times" they have presumably already helped themselves by paying into the system.
I don't and I have not claimed to be able to know either. I don't know what the answer is and I don't claim to have it. I am just voicing my personal opinion about career benefits people.
well said...
im not sure why some here want to make excuses for the scroungers, who are taking money out of the pot for genuine people..
No one would deny a genuine claimant any money they are entitled to have. To resort to saying people would deny the disabled their benefits and the walking thing is very below the belt and ridiculous. You're just being ridiculous now.
There is a huge difference between being resentful of lazy work shy people sitting around on their ipads and genuine claimants. Most of us know this why don't you?
No, I am definitely not. I don't know a single person on benefits that is like the people on benefit street. Then again, I don't know any with a load of luxury electricals either. The right wing media are the ones who have decided on a one size fits all depiction of benefit claimants because they seek to demonise every single one regardless of the circumstances that put them where they are. My point was more general about people's perception of quality of life and how it could possibly be argued that people on benefits have a higher quality of life than people working. Generally speaking, it can't.
Possibly because like the Wizard they have posted they are better off not working and maybe feel some guilt I don't know but I am not attacking any genuine claimant. How the genuine people struggle is wrong. How the career benefits people prosper is wrong. I would have also thought people would want that ammended on benefits or not.
99% of claimants are genuine, and are entitled to the benefits they get. Benefit fraud is actually very low.
If people are claiming benefits fraudulently, they need stringing up. No one should defend fraud, ever.
Noone seeks to defend people who are claiming fraudulently or who are on benefits because they can't be arsed to work. We just object to all claimants being tarred with the same brush when it is simply not possible to tell one group from another at a superficial level, such as by looking at how many Ipads they have or when they last had a holiday.
So you value material possessions very highly?
But there is a system in place, for these people also in on about the idle, who claim backache, they have to go for a medical on the WCA.
because some of us have got pride, we were brought up by decent parents who told us 'if you want something you have to earn it'.. wheres the dunkirk spirit where everyone pulled together? the british trait of 'fair play'... in fact its the very spirit of fair play that was behind setting up the system to assist the less fortunate in society. which im all for... but equally im dead against career benefits people.
true, there is now (after many years of slackness), but you can still get around it. i could, ive had backache, i know how it effects you, i could convince them that i couldnt work..... but i can..
Perhaps if society wasn't so shallow as to think that possessions define a person then we would be able to see past the 'luxuries' to the real life underneath and have more empathy, eh?
I wouldn't know I haven't checked I'm just voicing my opinion on those who choose not to work.
I am supposed to defend being envious of someone who can afford stuff I cannot because they choose not to work? Are you trying to say I shouldn't? If so I don't really care. It's just my opinion is all
Career benefits people? you mean people like full time carers claiming full benefits? I care 24/7 for 3 disbled people, I am on full benefits so do I meet your criteria?
That phrase is an insult to we carers who have a full time job on benefits. By the way, I get paid a pittance for my 'career' £55 a week to be precise,
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/benefit-cuts-blind-man-committed-2965375
and there are many more stories the same.
Fairness works both ways and at the moment the government are treating the sick and vulnerable with utter contempt and I would sooner we have a few scroungers get away with a few quid than see more and more suicides of vulnerable people.
There is now no balance and no fairness, is it worth it, what civilised society allows it?
Are you serious? You honestly think that people on benefits should sell off all their luxury goods which they will probably get next to nothing for. Then go out and spend money replacing them with something basic. And when they go back to work they should then spend even more money buying them all back again. Do you seriously think this will make them any better off because if you do you clearly shouldn't be in charge of anyone's finances.
This is the kind of ridiculous statement I expect off benefit bashers.
Well there is a lot of evidence out there that say the, system that is in place now fails, because of the amount of people found fit for work when they are not.
A single person on JSA under 25 gets £56, over 25 its £71 per week