it depends on whether you have a totally safe area for the pup when you go out otherwise too many things could happen to it. I always crate mine as don't want them chewing the wrong things or through electrics etc whilst I am not there
We find it essential if they are going to be at the vet for an op etc they will be crated while they are there so even if it's just the once it's important they know it's a safe place and don't panic when they are put into it.
Also as TWS said it's safest when they are left home alone especially before they learn not to chew things around the house.
We find it essential if they are going to be at the vet for an op etc they will be crated while they are there so even if it's just the once it's important they know it's a safe place and don't panic when they are put into it.
Also as TWS said it's safest when they are left home alone especially before they learn not to chew things around the house.
Thanks, it seems even vets recommend them, will order today
YES! 100% yes! train your puppy to go in a crate! You will be glad you did, even as an adult dog there many good reasons to use a crate:
- if you put the crate somewhere convenient and leave it open, your dog will have somewhere that is completely his own little den to retire to when he wants peace. A dog that has his own place feels much more relaxed and secure.
- if your dog is small (or your car big!) a crate is brilliant to safety contain him on car journeys, and if he's used to having a crate 'den' in the house, being in one in the car will help calm him through familiarity and make journeys enjoyable for owner and dog.
- if you get visitors that are allergic to, frightened of or dislike dogs, you have somewhere safe to put him out of the way for an hour or so.
- if your having DIY/ building work done and your dog is crate trained, you can keep him out of harms way.
- a crate with a blanket over it makes a great, snug space for fireworks night, with the added advantage that you can close him in securely.
- if your dog hates the vet, you have a way to get him in there safely without stressing him, dragging him in by the lead.
- when your dog gets older, if he starts going puppy like unreliable with housetraining at night, a crate with some puppy pads in it means your floor and carpets won't suffer, as if he's been used to being in a crate all his life, it's not very difficult to train him to stay in it overnight. Just make sure its a bit bigger than his usual sized one if you do this, enough for him to move about in a little. This is how my older dog is now, because he's not reliable in the house anymore, and it works brilliantly.
Many people don't bother with a crate because they think its a waste of money, as the puppy will soon grow up, but personally I find them invaluable, as you can use one through the whole of you dog's life, whether he's young, old or in-between! Other people don't like them as they think its like putting a dog in a cage. It's not, it's only a 'prison' if an owner uses it as somewhere to send the dog when he's been bad, or leave him in it for hours on end. Then its a cage. Used properly, a dog will learn to look on his crate as his own special place and will voluntarily go and lie in it. Use it negatively and the dog will view it negatively, use it in a positive manner and the dog will look upon it in a positive way. A dog lead is negative if you use it as a whip instead of using it properly. Crates aren't 'cruel' if used in the right way:).
All my 3 dogs have their own crate, they love it, the door is open and they love going in to snuggle up in all the pillows and blankets and have a sleep. My saluki x is a very nervous dog, if he get scared he runs in and stays in. My puppy gets fed in the crate, he runs in waits for his food.I am all for them.
YES! 100% yes! train your puppy to go in a crate! You will be glad you did, even as an adult dog there many good reasons to use a crate:
- if you put the crate somewhere convenient and leave it open, your dog will have somewhere that is completely his own little den to retire to when he wants peace. A dog that has his own place feels much more relaxed and secure.
- if your dog is small (or your car big!) a crate is brilliant to safety contain him on car journeys, and if he's used to having a crate 'den' in the house, being in one in the car will help calm him through familiarity and make journeys enjoyable for owner and dog.
- if you get visitors that are allergic to, frightened of or dislike dogs, you have somewhere safe to put him out of the way for an hour or so.
- if your having DIY/ building work done and your dog is crate trained, you can keep him out of harms way.
- a crate with a blanket over it makes a great, snug space for fireworks night, with the added advantage that you can close him in securely.
- if your dog hates the vet, you have a way to get him in there safely without stressing him, dragging him in by the lead.
- when your dog gets older, if he starts going puppy like unreliable with housetraining at night, a crate with some puppy pads in it means your floor and carpets won't suffer, as if he's been used to being in a crate all his life, it's not very difficult to train him to stay in it overnight. Just make sure its a bit bigger than his usual sized one if you do this, enough for him to move about in a little. This is how my older dog is now, because he's not reliable in the house anymore, and it works brilliantly.
Many people don't bother with a crate because they think its a waste of money, as the puppy will soon grow up, but personally I find them invaluable, as you can use one through the whole of you dog's life, whether he's young, old or in-between! Other people don't like them as they think its like putting a dog in a cage. It's not, it's only a 'prison' if an owner uses it as somewhere to send the dog when he's been bad, or leave him in it for hours on end. Then its a cage. Used properly, a dog will learn to look on his crate as his own special place and will voluntarily go and lie in it. Use it negatively and the dog will view it negatively, use it in a positive manner and the dog will look upon it in a positive way. A dog lead is negative if you use it as a whip instead of using it properly. Crates aren't 'cruel' if used in the right way:).
Yup another crate vote. Both my are crate trained and it's been a godsend, saved my house being trashed during the time I'm out, given them a safe hides hole from the kids and made toilet training easy.
I personally don't think they're all that. Maybe if you have to leave the dog on its own for a short while as a safety precaution, but as far as a tool for house training, no - that's just bloody lazy.
And as for a 'secure' place for the dog to retreat to - what?! My mother currently has 12 week old and 8 month old lurcher puppies. All they want to do is sit with you, not on their own in a crate. And if they do want alone time, they don't seem too anxious or insecure sprawled across their dog bed dozing....
I personally don't think they're all that. Maybe if you have to leave the dog on its own for a short while as a safety precaution, but as far as a tool for house training, no - that's just bloody lazy.
And as for a 'secure' place for the dog to retreat to - what?! My mother currently has 12 week old and 8 month old lurcher puppies. All they want to do is sit with you, not on their own in a crate. And if they do want alone time, they don't seem too anxious or insecure sprawled across their dog bed dozing....
I think this is a common attitude from those who've not used crates, and no it's not lazy to have a crate for toilet training, it's extremely helpful to the dog, pups need those barriers of here I can pee - here I can't. The crate helps provide the can't area, as soon as you open the crate you go directly outside and they pee, reinforcing the in/out barrier. They are not essential for toilet training but they help greatly. My boys never had an accident over night (granted Ito up at 3 to let them out) from being pups, and still don't.
As for safe zones, they are ideal, you quite your mums dogs as taking themselves off to a dog bed when they had enough, which is the same thing ass going to thier crate, they take time out. My two rely on thier crates as zones the kids can't go (so they tske bones in there) and safe, comforting places. The fireworks were going off on New Years and both wouldn't settle until they were crated and covered. At which point both settled and relaxed - it's home base for them.
If you don't understand them, or haven't used them, fine but don't criticise or label those that do as lazy, we are not. And with two lurcher pups I hope your mother is prepared for a damaged house if they are not crated!
Would you carry on using the cage even when dog is trained?
Sorry , missed this. Is till use mine for my adult dog (and pup) and will do for life, they are secure in there and that's important. As pup gets older and less destructive I'll probably leave the doors open when I'm out, but keep them as a den for them
I personally don't think they're all that. Maybe if you have to leave the dog on its own for a short while as a safety precaution, but as far as a tool for house training, no - that's just bloody lazy.
And as for a 'secure' place for the dog to retreat to - what?! My mother currently has 12 week old and 8 month old lurcher puppies. All they want to do is sit with you, not on their own in a crate. And if they do want alone time, they don't seem too anxious or insecure sprawled across their dog bed dozing....
Have you ever used one ? Betty loves hers I give her a kong in the kitchen and have to yell to my husband quick open the door or she nearly chips herself dashing to get into it to discover what is in the kong, Mollie has hers behind the sofa.
When we go out I have no fear Mollie would hurt Betty but Betty being small and young pesters Mollie to play and putting Betty into her crate with a toy means Mollie gets a nice nap in peace.
Toilet training has been a breeze we took her out every hour so she got the idea (down two flights of stairs and across the carpark) so if that's lazy I want to know what is active !!
She has her toy and her kong and goes in there when she wants a quiet moment, happened quite a bit first week after she was spayed as the anaesthetic really knocked her for 6.
We always are able to say when they go to stay at the vets that they are crate trained which the vet loves as that means they won't panic, fight or make a fuss when they go into the cages.
Betty travels in her car crate, much safer than letting her run around and means very controlled exit of the car unlike some people I see opening their boot to chaos.
Also when Duncan was dying picking him up gave him agony but because he loved his crate he crept into there and we carefully carried the entire thing to the car to take him to the vet. I dread to think how we would have hurt him if he wasn't happy to go into the safety of his crate and he wouldn't have managed the walk down to the car himself at all.
I think this is a common attitude from those who've not used crates, and no it's not lazy to have a crate for toilet training, it's extremely helpful to the dog, pups need those barriers of here I can pee - here I can't. The crate helps provide the can't area, as soon as you open the crate you go directly outside and they pee, reinforcing the in/out barrier. They are not essential for toilet training but they help greatly. My boys never had an accident over night (granted Ito up at 3 to let them out) from being pups, and still don't.
As for safe zones, they are ideal, you quite your mums dogs as taking themselves off to a dog bed when they had enough, which is the same thing ass going to thier crate, they take time out. My two rely on thier crates as zones the kids can't go (so they tske bones in there) and safe, comforting places. The fireworks were going off on New Years and both wouldn't settle until they were crated and covered. At which point both settled and relaxed - it's home base for them.
If you don't understand them, or haven't used them, fine but don't criticise or label those that do as lazy, we are not. And with two lurcher pups I hope your mother is prepared for a damaged house if they are not crated!
She used to breed lurchers and JRTs, we're quite experienced with them. Mum's also retired, so there's someone home almost all the time.
This whole 'no pee' zoning IMO is lazy. You should watch your puppy and put it outside when it shows signs of needing the toilet - at 12 weeks, after 2 weeks with mum, Rhea is asking to go outside by jangling the keys that hang in the back door. If you can't be bothered to put the effort in to watch and train, rather than forcing or confining them to a place that they are uncomfortable toiletting in, I don't think you should bother getting a dog tbh. All IMO of course.
She used to breed lurchers and JRTs, we're quite experienced with them. Mum's also retired, so there's someone home almost all the time.
This whole 'no pee' zoning IMO is lazy. You should watch your puppy and put it outside when it shows signs of needing the toilet - at 12 weeks, after 2 weeks with mum, Rhea is asking to go outside by jangling the keys that hang in the back door. If you can't be bothered to put the effort in to watch and train, rather than forcing or confining them to a place that they are uncomfortable toiletting in, I don't think you should bother getting a dog tbh. All IMO of course.
It isn't lazy you still take the dog out it just means if you have to leave the dog for a few minutes to begin with and in our case 2 hours now they know it's their bed and not to pee in it and when we get back they will be straight out side again.
We had very few accidents because we did watch her and take her out on the hour or when she looked like she needed to go but we cannot be here 24/7 with her so for that 2 hours we are gone she knows to wait.
She used to breed lurchers and JRTs, we're quite experienced with them. Mum's also retired, so there's someone home almost all the time.
This whole 'no pee' zoning IMO is lazy. You should watch your puppy and put it outside when it shows signs of needing the toilet - at 12 weeks, after 2 weeks with mum, Rhea is asking to go outside by jangling the keys that hang in the back door. If you can't be bothered to put the effort in to watch and train, rather than forcing or confining them to a place that they are uncomfortable toiletting in, I don't think you should bother getting a dog tbh. All IMO of course.
Is there a reason you are so rude? All IMO of course :rolleyes:
Does your mother get up every twenty minutes at night too? Does she not have accidents! She sounds bloody perfect. It also seems strange to me that you seem to know all about it, yet have to refer to your mums dogs - I presume that means you don't have any of your own, which kind of proves the point to me that you obviously have bugger all idea what you are talking about,
I have never forced my dogs into a crate, ever and I do happen to know what I'm talking about, and it is obvious I know a hell of a lot more than you,
Your mummy does use crates, fine- it doesn't mean it's wrong for other to do so. It also doesn't mean your mother is any way superior to those that do, the fact that she's breeding dog breeds that shelters are inundated with shows exactly what sort of knowledge and experience she has. All IMO of course.
Is there a reason you are so rude? All IMO of course :rolleyes:
Does your mother get up every twenty minutes at night too? Does she not have accidents! She sounds bloody perfect. It also seems strange to me that you seem to know all about it, yet have to refer to your mums dogs - I presume that means you don't have any of your own, which kind of proves the point to me that you obviously have bugger all idea what you are talking about,
I have never forced my dogs into a crate, ever and I do happen to know what I'm talking about, and it is obvious I know a hell of a lot more than you,
Your mummy does use crates, fine- it doesn't mean it's wrong for other to do so. It also doesn't mean your mother is any way superior to those that do, the fact that she's breeding dog breeds that shelters are inundated with shows exactly what sort of knowledge and experience she has. All IMO of course.
I'm 38 and currently live abroad. Whilst I lived in the uk as an adult I did not have a dog as I worked full time and I don't believe it's right to have a dog in those circumstances. However, I have had many family dogs when I lived at home, none of which were crated and all successfully house trained. If you re-read my post, you'll see that my mother USED to breed - approx 25 years ago. So no, she's not adding to the numbers that shelters are inundated with.
But please accept my apologies for being ingnorant to the fact that I had to be a dog owner currently to have any knowledge, how silly of me. You are far superior of course. Although my mum is pretty perfect.
I never said crate were wrong - I stated that they are not necessary and for certain aspects of training are wrongly used. Not sure why you think I've been rude. I would say you've been rude too, but I'll put that down to your belief in the crate and not a case of ' the lady doth protest too much methinks'...
I'm 38 and currently live abroad. Whilst I lived in the uk as an adult I did not have a dog as I worked full time and I don't believe it's right to have a dog in those circumstances. However, I have had many family dogs when I lived at home, none of which were crated and all successfully house trained. If you re-read my post, you'll see that my mother USED to breed - approx 25 years ago. So no, she's not adding to the numbers that shelters are inundated with.
But please accept my apologies for being ingnorant to the fact that I had to be a dog owner currently to have any knowledge, how silly of me. You are far superior of course. Although my mum is pretty perfect.
I never said crate were wrong - I stated that they are not necessary and for certain aspects of training are wrongly used. Not sure why you think I've been rude. I would say you've been rude too, but I'll put that down to your belief in the crate and not a case of ' the lady doth protest too much methinks'...
No calling me lazy isn't rude? Or saying I should have a dog because of said laziness isn't rude? I'd hate to think what your manners are like in that case.
Ah the 'she doth protest to much' argument, code for - I can't think of anything else to say so I will try to belittle my opponent. You can put my objections down to professional experience rather than childhood anecdotes. Again I say there is nothing wrong with not using a crate, it works for many people, but it can help pups settle in quicker without issues. Behavioural science is developing all the time, and 25 years ago (which btw still doesn't justify breeding lurchers- they are not breeds, rather mongrels, and have always been a constant member shelters) crates were not the done thing, whereas now research and experience shows that they can help pup development and adult dog security. They are not a replacement for good pet ownership, but good owners are quite right to investigate all the behavioural developments and see if they suit them.
The issue with people like you is that you make assumptions without facts and try to enforce your opinions on others by criticising them and thier methods. It's like the read on advice - a mother is going back to work and wants advice, instead she gets superior people tell her she's wrong to do so. Ironically it is always those that have only ever stayed at home that feel their opinions matter, those that have returned to work don't have a go at those who chose not to. Similarly here - the only person criticising others choices is you- labelling those who think differently as lazy and bad pet owners, not one crate user has said that those that don't use crates doesn't deserve to have a dog.
I have had dogs now for over 30 years back then we didn't really have crates, the increase in awareness of dog behaviour has been enormous in that time things we did back then we would say were very wrong now because we know better.
Dogs used to have noses rubbed in wee, left all day, allowed to roam the streets, and the pack/dominance theory was rife.
Now we know so much better house training is done kindly, we don't encourage people to leave dogs for more than a couple of hours, they are not allowed to roam all day and pack/dominance is really only practiced by people unwilling to put more work into learning what dogs are all about.
Along with those changes came crates as a safe happy place for a dog to sleep/eat/be kept safe I many circumstances.
Anyone watching what we do now and comparing it with 25/30 years ago will often be completely puzzled but it's what works and is kinder and better for dogs.
No calling me lazy isn't rude? Or saying I should have a dog because of said laziness isn't rude? I'd hate to think what your manners are like in that case.
Unless you use your crate as a toilet training tool, I wasn't calling you lazy - if you do, I was.
Ah the 'she doth protest to much' argument, code for - I can't think of anything else to say so I will try to belittle my opponent.
Your whole 'this is a common attitude from those who've not used crates' comment I found particularly patronizing, but it's your opinion and and I didn't rise to it. As for the 'mummy' quotes etc in your later reply to me, and about her being 'bloody perfect etc, me knowing 'bugger all' is not an attempt at a little condecension and insult, no? Again, I didn't rise to it, but now you mention it....
You can put my objections down to professional experience rather than childhood anecdotes.
and another one...
Again I say there is nothing wrong with not using a crate, it works for many people, but it can help pups settle in quicker without issues. Behavioural science is developing all the time,
good stuff, but I'm pretty sure toilet training a dog hasn't got that complex in 25 years...
and 25 years ago (which btw still doesn't justify breeding lurchers- they are not breeds, rather mongrels, and have always been a constant member shelters)
a) I don't agree with it either
b) Yes, my mother now doesn't either
c) as we bred lurchers, I don't need a lesson in their make up, thanks though.
crates were not the done thing, whereas now research and experience shows that they can help pup development and adult dog security. They are not a replacement for good pet ownership, but good owners are quite right to investigate all the behavioural developments and see if they suit them.
Nothing replaces good ownership, so on that much I totally agree with you.
The issue with people like you is that you make assumptions without facts and try to enforce your opinions on others by criticising them and thier methods.
That's a bit rich coming from you - offering advice on what my mother needed to look out for - wasn't that assuming she didn't have a clue? Assuming that I know no better than you? I may or may not, but it's your attitude thats slightly awry there, not mine.
It's like the read on advice - a mother is going back to work and wants advice, instead she gets superior people tell her she's wrong to do so. Ironically it is always those that have only ever stayed at home that feel their opinions matter, those that have returned to work don't have a go at those who chose not to.
I contributed on that thread, told the OP to go ahead and work, millions of children are born to working parents and bear no damaging mental scars because of it.
Similarly here - the only person criticising others choices is you- labelling those who think differently as lazy and bad pet owners, not one crate user has said that those that don't use crates doesn't deserve to have a dog.
I've had friends that do crate and those that don't - I see no difference in the stability and happiness of the dogs. and I'll repeat this one just for good measure - they should not be used as a toilet training tool.
I don't think they're all that, and you do. I accept your opinions on them, but I don't have to agree with them - it'd be very civil and grown up if you could extend the same courtesy. I'm too old for a bitch fest about a bloody crate.
ETA - I've just noticed it was you who told me in the 'Cat Coming' thread that if I say my cats don't have behavioural issues I'm either blind or lying. I honestly don't think it's me with the rude attitude or wild assumption capacity. You need to calm down on all the google research.
I think it was the phrase "bloody lazy" that started this, perhaps think about what you are saying because suggesting any of us are lazy because we use a crate when we are just wanting to keep our dogs safe is pretty rude. Be rude like that you are likely to get rudeness back IMO
I think it was the phrase "bloody lazy" that started this, perhaps think about what you are saying because suggesting any of us are lazy because we use a crate when we are just wanting to keep our dogs safe is pretty rude. Be rude like that you are likely to get rudeness back IMO
I agree Molly and we know that I tend to jump at comments like that too!
Orangebird- I didn't realise that was you from the cat thread, it does explain a lot though tb. As for my google research - try a Bsc and Msc in this very subject. not from goole btw. I will leave it there, and go back to the op to say - read your dog, if she/he is happy in the crate then keep it going, if you find that you have to encourage them in all the time, maybe best to leave it - just let her lead you!
I think it was the phrase "bloody lazy" that started this, perhaps think about what you are saying because suggesting any of us are lazy because we use a crate when we are just wanting to keep our dogs safe is pretty rude. Be rude like that you are likely to get rudeness back IMO
I'm suggesting if you use a crate to toilet train your dog, you're lazy. If you're using it for their safety, please read back over my posts and you'll see I agreed with that.
And for the record, bazaar1 has set the bar on this much earlier in another thread by accusing me of being blind or lying about the health and happiness of my cats. I find that rude and offensive. But hey, what can you do about it eh?
Comments
Also as TWS said it's safest when they are left home alone especially before they learn not to chew things around the house.
Thanks, it seems even vets recommend them, will order today
- if you put the crate somewhere convenient and leave it open, your dog will have somewhere that is completely his own little den to retire to when he wants peace. A dog that has his own place feels much more relaxed and secure.
- if your dog is small (or your car big!) a crate is brilliant to safety contain him on car journeys, and if he's used to having a crate 'den' in the house, being in one in the car will help calm him through familiarity and make journeys enjoyable for owner and dog.
- if you get visitors that are allergic to, frightened of or dislike dogs, you have somewhere safe to put him out of the way for an hour or so.
- if your having DIY/ building work done and your dog is crate trained, you can keep him out of harms way.
- a crate with a blanket over it makes a great, snug space for fireworks night, with the added advantage that you can close him in securely.
- if your dog hates the vet, you have a way to get him in there safely without stressing him, dragging him in by the lead.
- when your dog gets older, if he starts going puppy like unreliable with housetraining at night, a crate with some puppy pads in it means your floor and carpets won't suffer, as if he's been used to being in a crate all his life, it's not very difficult to train him to stay in it overnight. Just make sure its a bit bigger than his usual sized one if you do this, enough for him to move about in a little. This is how my older dog is now, because he's not reliable in the house anymore, and it works brilliantly.
Many people don't bother with a crate because they think its a waste of money, as the puppy will soon grow up, but personally I find them invaluable, as you can use one through the whole of you dog's life, whether he's young, old or in-between! Other people don't like them as they think its like putting a dog in a cage. It's not, it's only a 'prison' if an owner uses it as somewhere to send the dog when he's been bad, or leave him in it for hours on end. Then its a cage. Used properly, a dog will learn to look on his crate as his own special place and will voluntarily go and lie in it. Use it negatively and the dog will view it negatively, use it in a positive manner and the dog will look upon it in a positive way. A dog lead is negative if you use it as a whip instead of using it properly. Crates aren't 'cruel' if used in the right way:).
Thanks, great advice.
And as for a 'secure' place for the dog to retreat to - what?! My mother currently has 12 week old and 8 month old lurcher puppies. All they want to do is sit with you, not on their own in a crate. And if they do want alone time, they don't seem too anxious or insecure sprawled across their dog bed dozing....
I think this is a common attitude from those who've not used crates, and no it's not lazy to have a crate for toilet training, it's extremely helpful to the dog, pups need those barriers of here I can pee - here I can't. The crate helps provide the can't area, as soon as you open the crate you go directly outside and they pee, reinforcing the in/out barrier. They are not essential for toilet training but they help greatly. My boys never had an accident over night (granted Ito up at 3 to let them out) from being pups, and still don't.
As for safe zones, they are ideal, you quite your mums dogs as taking themselves off to a dog bed when they had enough, which is the same thing ass going to thier crate, they take time out. My two rely on thier crates as zones the kids can't go (so they tske bones in there) and safe, comforting places. The fireworks were going off on New Years and both wouldn't settle until they were crated and covered. At which point both settled and relaxed - it's home base for them.
If you don't understand them, or haven't used them, fine but don't criticise or label those that do as lazy, we are not. And with two lurcher pups I hope your mother is prepared for a damaged house if they are not crated!
Sorry , missed this. Is till use mine for my adult dog (and pup) and will do for life, they are secure in there and that's important. As pup gets older and less destructive I'll probably leave the doors open when I'm out, but keep them as a den for them
Have you ever used one ? Betty loves hers I give her a kong in the kitchen and have to yell to my husband quick open the door or she nearly chips herself dashing to get into it to discover what is in the kong, Mollie has hers behind the sofa.
When we go out I have no fear Mollie would hurt Betty but Betty being small and young pesters Mollie to play and putting Betty into her crate with a toy means Mollie gets a nice nap in peace.
Toilet training has been a breeze we took her out every hour so she got the idea (down two flights of stairs and across the carpark) so if that's lazy I want to know what is active !!
She has her toy and her kong and goes in there when she wants a quiet moment, happened quite a bit first week after she was spayed as the anaesthetic really knocked her for 6.
We always are able to say when they go to stay at the vets that they are crate trained which the vet loves as that means they won't panic, fight or make a fuss when they go into the cages.
Betty travels in her car crate, much safer than letting her run around and means very controlled exit of the car unlike some people I see opening their boot to chaos.
Also when Duncan was dying picking him up gave him agony but because he loved his crate he crept into there and we carefully carried the entire thing to the car to take him to the vet. I dread to think how we would have hurt him if he wasn't happy to go into the safety of his crate and he wouldn't have managed the walk down to the car himself at all.
This whole 'no pee' zoning IMO is lazy. You should watch your puppy and put it outside when it shows signs of needing the toilet - at 12 weeks, after 2 weeks with mum, Rhea is asking to go outside by jangling the keys that hang in the back door. If you can't be bothered to put the effort in to watch and train, rather than forcing or confining them to a place that they are uncomfortable toiletting in, I don't think you should bother getting a dog tbh. All IMO of course.
It isn't lazy you still take the dog out it just means if you have to leave the dog for a few minutes to begin with and in our case 2 hours now they know it's their bed and not to pee in it and when we get back they will be straight out side again.
We had very few accidents because we did watch her and take her out on the hour or when she looked like she needed to go but we cannot be here 24/7 with her so for that 2 hours we are gone she knows to wait.
Is there a reason you are so rude? All IMO of course :rolleyes:
Does your mother get up every twenty minutes at night too? Does she not have accidents! She sounds bloody perfect. It also seems strange to me that you seem to know all about it, yet have to refer to your mums dogs - I presume that means you don't have any of your own, which kind of proves the point to me that you obviously have bugger all idea what you are talking about,
I have never forced my dogs into a crate, ever and I do happen to know what I'm talking about, and it is obvious I know a hell of a lot more than you,
Your mummy does use crates, fine- it doesn't mean it's wrong for other to do so. It also doesn't mean your mother is any way superior to those that do, the fact that she's breeding dog breeds that shelters are inundated with shows exactly what sort of knowledge and experience she has. All IMO of course.
I'm 38 and currently live abroad. Whilst I lived in the uk as an adult I did not have a dog as I worked full time and I don't believe it's right to have a dog in those circumstances. However, I have had many family dogs when I lived at home, none of which were crated and all successfully house trained. If you re-read my post, you'll see that my mother USED to breed - approx 25 years ago. So no, she's not adding to the numbers that shelters are inundated with.
But please accept my apologies for being ingnorant to the fact that I had to be a dog owner currently to have any knowledge, how silly of me. You are far superior of course. Although my mum is pretty perfect.
I never said crate were wrong - I stated that they are not necessary and for certain aspects of training are wrongly used. Not sure why you think I've been rude. I would say you've been rude too, but I'll put that down to your belief in the crate and not a case of ' the lady doth protest too much methinks'...
If you want to use them then fine, but there is no "need" to use crates to have a well behaved happy house trained pet dog.
No calling me lazy isn't rude? Or saying I should have a dog because of said laziness isn't rude? I'd hate to think what your manners are like in that case.
Ah the 'she doth protest to much' argument, code for - I can't think of anything else to say so I will try to belittle my opponent. You can put my objections down to professional experience rather than childhood anecdotes. Again I say there is nothing wrong with not using a crate, it works for many people, but it can help pups settle in quicker without issues. Behavioural science is developing all the time, and 25 years ago (which btw still doesn't justify breeding lurchers- they are not breeds, rather mongrels, and have always been a constant member shelters) crates were not the done thing, whereas now research and experience shows that they can help pup development and adult dog security. They are not a replacement for good pet ownership, but good owners are quite right to investigate all the behavioural developments and see if they suit them.
The issue with people like you is that you make assumptions without facts and try to enforce your opinions on others by criticising them and thier methods. It's like the read on advice - a mother is going back to work and wants advice, instead she gets superior people tell her she's wrong to do so. Ironically it is always those that have only ever stayed at home that feel their opinions matter, those that have returned to work don't have a go at those who chose not to. Similarly here - the only person criticising others choices is you- labelling those who think differently as lazy and bad pet owners, not one crate user has said that those that don't use crates doesn't deserve to have a dog.
Agree there is no need, but they can help if you want to use them. Just like you don't need a dog bed but some have them, some give up the sofa
Dogs used to have noses rubbed in wee, left all day, allowed to roam the streets, and the pack/dominance theory was rife.
Now we know so much better house training is done kindly, we don't encourage people to leave dogs for more than a couple of hours, they are not allowed to roam all day and pack/dominance is really only practiced by people unwilling to put more work into learning what dogs are all about.
Along with those changes came crates as a safe happy place for a dog to sleep/eat/be kept safe I many circumstances.
Anyone watching what we do now and comparing it with 25/30 years ago will often be completely puzzled but it's what works and is kinder and better for dogs.
Ours had a chair
Unless you use your crate as a toilet training tool, I wasn't calling you lazy - if you do, I was.
Your whole 'this is a common attitude from those who've not used crates' comment I found particularly patronizing, but it's your opinion and and I didn't rise to it. As for the 'mummy' quotes etc in your later reply to me, and about her being 'bloody perfect etc, me knowing 'bugger all' is not an attempt at a little condecension and insult, no? Again, I didn't rise to it, but now you mention it....
and another one...
good stuff, but I'm pretty sure toilet training a dog hasn't got that complex in 25 years...
a) I don't agree with it either
b) Yes, my mother now doesn't either
c) as we bred lurchers, I don't need a lesson in their make up, thanks though.
Nothing replaces good ownership, so on that much I totally agree with you.
That's a bit rich coming from you - offering advice on what my mother needed to look out for - wasn't that assuming she didn't have a clue? Assuming that I know no better than you? I may or may not, but it's your attitude thats slightly awry there, not mine.
I contributed on that thread, told the OP to go ahead and work, millions of children are born to working parents and bear no damaging mental scars because of it.
I've had friends that do crate and those that don't - I see no difference in the stability and happiness of the dogs. and I'll repeat this one just for good measure - they should not be used as a toilet training tool.
I don't think they're all that, and you do. I accept your opinions on them, but I don't have to agree with them - it'd be very civil and grown up if you could extend the same courtesy. I'm too old for a bitch fest about a bloody crate.
ETA - I've just noticed it was you who told me in the 'Cat Coming' thread that if I say my cats don't have behavioural issues I'm either blind or lying. I honestly don't think it's me with the rude attitude or wild assumption capacity. You need to calm down on all the google research.
I agree Molly and we know that I tend to jump at comments like that too!
Orangebird- I didn't realise that was you from the cat thread, it does explain a lot though tb. As for my google research - try a Bsc and Msc in this very subject. not from goole btw. I will leave it there, and go back to the op to say - read your dog, if she/he is happy in the crate then keep it going, if you find that you have to encourage them in all the time, maybe best to leave it - just let her lead you!
Oh and pics of the little darling please
I'm suggesting if you use a crate to toilet train your dog, you're lazy. If you're using it for their safety, please read back over my posts and you'll see I agreed with that.
And for the record, bazaar1 has set the bar on this much earlier in another thread by accusing me of being blind or lying about the health and happiness of my cats. I find that rude and offensive. But hey, what can you do about it eh?