...One of my biggest gripes with how Google develops Android it is done behind closed doors with little or next to no mass market testing. ....
Market testing? Google and partners are supplying needs. Microsoft and Apple surely spend their billions on marketing, not market testing.
Think IOS maps and Windows 8 Market testing would have said 'don't do it'. Yet they do it because it suits their long term profit strategy.
Its why you have iPad apps and iPod apps. Add RT and Windows 8. Market testing would certainly confirm customers really prefer one open system, not 3 different systems like we have with closed Pod, close Pad and and open system PC.
The post actually said that Google have already done a lot to improve the tablet interface. I was talking more about the tablet specific app front which is still lacking, even with the new Holo UI conventions on upscaling the UI for tablets.
Market testing? Google and partners are supplying needs. Microsoft and Apple surely spend their billions on marketing, not market testing.
Think IOS maps and Windows 8 Market testing would have said 'don't do it'. Yet they do it because it suits their long term profit strategy.
Its why you have iPad apps and iPod apps. Add RT and Windows 8. Market testing would certainly confirm customers really prefer one open system, not 3 different systems like we have with closed Pod, close Pad and and open system PC.
I think I may have been misunderstood what I mean is mass testing in the sense of a beta like that of which iOS7 and Windows 8.1 received.
One thing separate tablet and mobile apps better in Play store.
but you don't get separate apps. The same app works on both tablet and phone, and when you browse the play store from your device, it only shows apps that are compatible with your device.
I think a separate tablet app section is needed. I am fully aware of the Holo UI upscale convention which Google launched in 2011, but it hasn't been taken on by developers as much as it should have been.
So either Google need to force developers to do that, or they just put a separate tablet section into the Play Store. They need to boost Android on tablets.
but you don't get separate apps. The same app works on both tablet and phone, and when you browse the play store from your device, it only shows apps that are compatible with your device.
I think a separate tablet app section is needed. I am fully aware of the Holo UI upscale convention which Google launched in 2011, but it hasn't been taken on by developers as much as it should have been.
So either Google need to force developers to do that, or they just put a separate tablet section into the Play Store. They need to boost Android on tablets.
Precisely what I am saying it really hasn't and honestly I still find a lot of android tablet supported apps awful take the marvel unlimited one for instance. On my iPad it works glorious on my Samsung it takes ages to even turn one page. Clearly they haven't been optimised properly.
I have to say I am inclined to agree with some of your sentiments regarding Android. The problem I find with the whole ecosystem is the lack of finesse and polish given to most third party apps. Google is generally successful with its own contibrutions to the platform, however apps such as Facebook and Twitter (though not vastly different to their iOS cousins) leave a lot to be desired.
I think the problem with Android is that it is its own worst enemy. Google has designed a system with so much scale it has become somewhat unweildly as it has matured. Yes they have added polish but at what expense? I challenge any average consumer to be able to pick up an android phone and take advantage of its extensive features from the outset. Android feels very much like a desktop OS converted for the mobile world. It is open, and this has many benefits, but simplicity it lacks. Plus as already mentioned the reluctance of Android users to pay for premium apps discourages development. I am a technology geek so I like all things to do with smartphone, new Android and iOS releases excite me. The ability to have new features and exploit them is fun and enlightening.
The problem we have at the moment is growth in marketshare for Android is as a result of the market being flooded with phones at differing price points, whilst this is good for the consumer in terms of price and competition, the fragmented installation of Android versions is damaging the user experience over the longer term. What I find largely puzzling is the lack of colour in stock Android experience though it is consistent across devices it likes warmth and soul. Compare this against the bright colourful implementations of HTC devices, it leaves a lot to be desired. My fear is Android is designed by geeks for geeks, when UX and simplicity are often an after thought. Maybe this will change with KitKat and Google will offer a new colour palette for Android.
The current approach isn't sustainable in the long term, manufacturers sooner or later are going to abandon Android because of the market dominance of Samsung (expansive supply chain etc). When the high street shopper is introduced to Android its unfortunate that Samsung is usually the first to roll off the tongue. Apple has the benefit I suppose of being vertically integrated but this does come at a cost. Android was supposed to be a completely open platform, developed in conjunction with manufacturers and end users....the latter of which has never happened.
One of my biggest gripes with how Google develops Android it is done behind closed doors with little or next to no mass market testing. All the major software companies will release beta versions of the product to the development community at large to stress test it on a large scale, this allows for easier bug tracking and more useful telemetry data on a industry wide scale. While doesn't google follow this model? I suspect Android would come on leaps and bounds if Google released preview code for the next OS to developers so they could properly test it and optimise their apps around it.
Microsoft does this with Windows releasing various previews, as does Apple with iOS and its OSX related products. There is a reason these operating systems have polish and quality, and Android does not. The irony is Android being one of the most open platforms is also one of the most closed in its development something Google assured it wouldn't do when it joined or created the OHA.
As you mention iTunes.....if I could manage and buy apps/music on the desktop away from it I would. iTunes at least for windows has to be the most bloated, buggy, cumbersome piece of shit to have ever come out the doors from Apple. How they even have the nerve to claim its exceptional performance is beyond me, maybe on Mac but Windows is dire. Apple has some of the most talented coders in the world and yet year after year they still release the pile of turd that is iTunes. The software is a piss take, I would wage a bet that Windows Media Player is far superior and even then I feel like I am clutching at straws (as you can see it grinds my gears somewhat lol).
Totally agree although iTunes works fine on my PC.
Another thing is the vanilla android you get on nexus etc has basically jack shit on it too. OK this is the intent but there's no spirit in those phones or tabs.
I find with android that not only are the apps poor quality, but you need to always go and find a 3rd party one to do something. When you do, its just not quite as good or requires more work compared to the integration and quality if apps on iOS.
For example my mate moved from iPhone to a HTC. The first thing was the lack of video sending . you couldn't simply make a video and send it to someone like you can on iOS. It requires a email, mms or a third party app that doesnt quite do the same or reqires the otherperson to have it etc. This is a feature hangouts should have included.
I get pissed of with Google music and how it doesn't physically download a propped file. The end user shouldn't have to delve around in files and folders looking for it, or having to go from the phone to a PC to have to log in and physically download the file from music ready to transfer back to the phone.
I have a nexus at the moment and to be frank its boring. Certainly developed for those who code instead of actually use a phone.
At the moment I think a lot of users are testing the water and looking for other alternatives. As I said before not a lot of my friends or android users in general are happy with their phone. They have something that's not quite right or not working etc. I have herd more people taking back a new (android) phone to the shop than apple too.
If android doesn't pull its socks up and delivers real quality lots will look too or move back to apple.
Totally agree although iTunes works fine on my PC.
Eugh!!
Anyway, a few things not right here....
Another thing is the vanilla android you get on nexus etc has basically jack shit on it too. OK this is the intent but there's no spirit in those phones or tabs.
Plenty of spirit in my Nexus 4.
I find with android that not only are the apps poor quality, but you need to always go and find a 3rd party one to do something. When you do, its just not quite as good or requires more work compared to the integration and quality if apps on iOS.
Absolute nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense in fact. You have been corrected many times on this already.
For example my mate moved from iPhone to a HTC. The first thing was the lack of video sending .
Rubbish. You can send via bluetooth, wifi direct, email and MMS. So basically, your 'mate' has no idea how to use the phone or your lying.
you couldn't simply make a video and send it to someone like you can on iOS.
Yes you can.
It requires a email, mms or a third party app that doesnt quite do the same or reqires the otherperson to have it etc.
Wrong.
I have a nexus at the moment and to be frank its boring. Certainly developed for those who code instead of actually use a phone.
I don't code and i love my Nexus 4. Best phone so far i have ever owned.
Please think before you decide to make up nonsense like this. There will always be someone with more knowledge than you. Which there always seems to be with you....
I am not advocating Apple as being the best example in anyway. You compare my comment to adding some colour to that of a teenage girl? FFS get a grip! You look at every stock version of android and its colour palette has largely remained unchanged. Yes they adopted a new "theme" with the Holo UI but it wasn't much of a progression from Gingerbread which was effectively the same blue/white on black approach. You go on about people being able to get their own choice of launcher thats great for those in the know, tech savvy people like us. But to the average person that doesn't apply, I can assure you parents wouldn't have a bloody clue what I was on about if I suggested a new skin for them. Apple is far from a beacon of quality but as least its had the balls to overhaul its look whether you like it or not. Android hasn't really changed since Gingerbread. Choice is a good thing and is to be encouraged but I can guarrantee at least 95% of android users won't move away from the stock launcher. The only manufacturer that has noticeably evovled its interface is HTC and credit where it is due the new Sense UI and Blinkfeed is brilliant. They have put a lot of effort into its simplicity and user experience. Compare that to stock android or better yet Touchwiz and honestly there has been little or next to no improvements since the launch of Gingerbread.
Not everyone is as tech savvy as you, not everyone knows how to customise their phone to the degree you mention and nor would they want to. Android's UI and its tablet app system with it needs an overhaul. I don't like the bright colours of iOS that is coming with 7. But its a change.....even Microsoft saw sense to at least evolve its UX on WP8 which lead to the OS becoming very competitive whilst offering polish and fluidity.
How is it that Android consistently needs beefier hardware in which to run applications when Windows Phone 8 is able to run on hardware that is comparatively modest and have an incredibly smooth and polished experience?
If your complaint about android is the lack of colour, then that is not a big issue. There are plenty of other apps that can add colour, if that is what you really want. No you do not have to be tech savvy to customise your phone. A launcher, skin and icons can all be installed from the play store. So no tech skill required. If you dont know how to install apps from the play store then yes you will struggle. That would then beg the question, why have a smartphone. Yes if you really want to go for a completely new and individual look, then you will need to be tech savy.
Some of the overlays that some manufacturers put on are not very good like touchwiz, sense is alot better. However then it comes back to choice. You can buy the HTC One which will come with sense, then you can buy the google version, which will come with just android. Its all about choice when it comes to android.
Andoid does not continue to need 'beefier specs', that is the way phones are moving. New models will come out with the latest processor, more RAM etc. This is not something restricted to Android.
As for WP8 becoming very competitive, err the sales figures so not reflect this. However I accept that this isnt all down to the OS.
The myth that you need to be tech savy to have an android is just plain rubbish. It does not put you in a straitjacket like iOS. For some people moving from iOS to Android, where you are offered more freedom, it scares them, and freak out. Thus automatically thinking that you need to tech savvy to use it.
I totally agree with the sentiments of quality regarding android tablet apps.
I have a Nexus 7 and an ipad 3 and there is no comparison, the overall ipad experience is just far superior to the nexus 7. The nexus really only gets used if I need file system access for downloads etc.
I recently went travelling for 6 months and only took the nexus. The usability of the os and the apps can be really frustrating at times, the default keyboard for instance is really terrible.
I can only feel that non techies who are familiar with the quality of the ipad experience would be really disappointed by the android tablets as the experience currently stands.
Totally agree although iTunes works fine on my PC.
Another thing is the vanilla android you get on nexus etc has basically jack shit on it too. OK this is the intent but there's no spirit in those phones or tabs.
I find with android that not only are the apps poor quality, but you need to always go and find a 3rd party one to do something. When you do, its just not quite as good or requires more work compared to the integration and quality if apps on iOS.
For example my mate moved from iPhone to a HTC. The first thing was the lack of video sending . you couldn't simply make a video and send it to someone like you can on iOS. It requires a email, mms or a third party app that doesnt quite do the same or reqires the otherperson to have it etc. This is a feature hangouts should have included.
I get pissed of with Google music and how it doesn't physically download a propped file. The end user shouldn't have to delve around in files and folders looking for it, or having to go from the phone to a PC to have to log in and physically download the file from music ready to transfer back to the phone.
I have a nexus at the moment and to be frank its boring. Certainly developed for those who code instead of actually use a phone.
At the moment I think a lot of users are testing the water and looking for other alternatives. As I said before not a lot of my friends or android users in general are happy with their phone. They have something that's not quite right or not working etc. I have herd more people taking back a new (android) phone to the shop than apple too.
If android doesn't pull its socks up and delivers real quality lots will look too or move back to apple.
I again largely agree with you. The Nexus 7 is an example of what should be a good tablet, the screen is very bright and sharp, the battery life is very good, it performs very smoothly. However I like you find it frustrating that there are very few third party apps that take advantage of the screen real estate. Its interesting you mention satisfaction, people I know who have android as a smartphone are generally quite pleased however as a tablet I have seen two people return a Galaxy Tab and exchange it for an iPad due to the lack of optimised applications, which basically shows how piss poor the android tablet platform is.
If your complaint about android is the lack of colour, then that is not a big issue. There are plenty of other apps that can add colour, if that is what you really want. No you do not have to be tech savvy to customise your phone. A launcher, skin and icons can all be installed from the play store. So no tech skill required. If you dont know how to install apps from the play store then yes you will struggle. That would then beg the question, why have a smartphone. Yes if you really want to go for a completely new and individual look, then you will need to be tech savy.
Some of the overlays that some manufacturers put on are not very good like touchwiz, sense is alot better. However then it comes back to choice. You can buy the HTC One which will come with sense, then you can buy the google version, which will come with just android. Its all about choice when it comes to android.
Andoid does not continue to need 'beefier specs', that is the way phones are moving. New models will come out with the latest processor, more RAM etc. This is not something restricted to Android.
As for WP8 becoming very competitive, err the sales figures so not reflect this. However I accept that this isnt all down to the OS.
The myth that you need to be tech savy to have an android is just plain rubbish. It does not put you in a straitjacket like iOS. For some people moving from iOS to Android, where you are offered more freedom, it scares them, and freak out. Thus automatically thinking that you need to tech savvy to use it.
I will try and address each of your points as best as I can. You mention not needing to be tach savvy to install a new launcher and maybe a skin? Yeah people can go into the Play store and just click install......but I know the user would end up in the same situation as those who tried Windows 8 for the first time it would involve a hassle of learning how to use it. There is no natural instruction set, things get moved around labelled differently, this then leads to confusion and eventually user satisfaction dropping. Android is only easy if you know how and frankly most people don't know how to install a custom launcher and operate it. You might not need a science degree to install applications or custom launchers but to the average person you need one in which to operate it.
As for beefier specs you look at how Jellybean runs on a Galaxy Nexus and come it to the Nexus 4. The so called war on lag stopped when JB launched....at first it was great ran smoothly on the GN but now 4.3 does struggle to run on the device and that is with a stock launcher. Due to android's scale its becoming far more unmanageable and difficult to optimise Android really is late to the party on this one. With each eventual release you will notice current or previous gen hardware really will struggle, thats the same for most phones. However when you compare it to Blackberry OS, Windows Phone or iOS they offer a polished fluid operation. Microsoft laid down the minimum benchmarks WP devices has to operate to. Even from the outset when WP7 first launched the whole experience was very polished even for a debut OS. You look at some of the older WP devices and even with successive upgrades they still perform well and offer a polished experience. Why doesn't google dictate a minimum benchmark to ensure that Android feels polished and fluid? is it the hardware or software thats the problem? I personally believe its the software as some of the tech in these devices rivals that of a PC....so again comes back to Android not meeting the expectations of users using Apple as the benchmark.
When I talk about WP8 being competitive I am not talking about marketshare or sales. Go and use a device and you will understand my point. The alternative it offers, polished and actually exciting to use. It is beginning to find its legs against the dominant OS, whilst only a minnow in sales it does knock spots off Android and iOS in how it uses and interprets your information.
I never once suggested Android put you in a straitjacket, yes it offers openness akin to that on a desktop. But to actually use it I would argue most people would find it difficult, the operating system reminds me of linux development there is the stable, tried tested and polished variant like Debian which will work on devices it is catered for, then the unstable bleeding edge such as ubuntu which is very temperamental. Android is like the latter, full of features which rarely get used.
I have to stress Android is a brilliant OS, it is well designed even given its shortcomings. I love having the ability to customise it the way I want I genuinely do prefer it to iOS for that reason. I just wish Google would concentrate on bringing the tablet platform up to scratch and streamlinging the UI as currently there is too much going on with the widgets and everything else.
I can only feel that non techies who are familiar with the quality of the ipad experience would be really disappointed by the android tablets as the experience currently stands.
This echoes my point entirely I couldn't have put it better myself!
I will try and address each of your points as best as I can. You mention not needing to be tach savvy to install a new launcher and maybe a skin? Yeah people can go into the Play store and just click install......but I know the user would end up in the same situation as those who tried Windows 8 for the first time it would involve a hassle of learning how to use it. There is no natural instruction set, things get moved around labelled differently, this then leads to confusion and eventually user satisfaction dropping. Android is only easy if you know how and frankly most people don't know how to install a custom launcher and operate it. You might not need a science degree to install applications or custom launchers but to the average person you need one in which to operate it.
Using a launcher, would require no 'extra learning' to most of the functionality. The basics work pretty much the same on all launchers. True, to use the additional features, would require time to what the launcher can do, or how to do it. However this can range from watching a 3 min YouTube video, to reading some text. Granted this wont be for everyone, however if all you are bothered about is the look/lack of colour, you wont be bothered about the extra features.
Maybe because I am tech savvy, I under-estimate how easy it is to learn using new software. I am sure for some people its not that easy at all.
As for beefier specs you look at how Jellybean runs on a Galaxy Nexus and come it to the Nexus 4. The so called war on lag stopped when JB launched....at first it was great ran smoothly on the GN but now 4.3 does struggle to run on the device and that is with a stock launcher. Due to android's scale its becoming far more unmanageable and difficult to optimise Android really is late to the party on this one. With each eventual release you will notice current or previous gen hardware really will struggle, thats the same for most phones. However when you compare it to Blackberry OS, Windows Phone or iOS they offer a polished fluid operation. Microsoft laid down the minimum benchmarks WP devices has to operate to. Even from the outset when WP7 first launched the whole experience was very polished even for a debut OS. You look at some of the older WP devices and even with successive upgrades they still perform well and offer a polished experience. Why doesn't google dictate a minimum benchmark to ensure that Android feels polished and fluid? is it the hardware or software thats the problem? I personally believe its the software as some of the tech in these devices rivals that of a PC....so again comes back to Android not meeting the expectations of users using Apple as the benchmark.
As new version of an OS come out, there is more functionality, thus will require better specs to run it as well. If you have a top end phone like the S4, S3, THC One, then the next couple of android version will run fine. If however you have a mid-range phone, the you will probably just about be able to run the next version. Low end phones will only run the OS version they have shipped with. I think from this point of view, its up to the user to realise if they buy an entry level phone, then there is no hope of moving up to the next os version. As you say, the reason why its not a problem for WP, is that Microsoft dictate a minimum spec. Android has no minimum, and iOS only release top end models. So its not odd that some Android phones struggle.
Comparing a mid-range Android phone to an iphone is flawed. You can not compare the £600 iphone to a £200 Android, unless its the Nexus 4. The UX on the iphone will be better. You have more processing power in the phone. You have to compare like for like. Also iOS is built around the UX - you are running an app, press the home button and the app will stop, as the processing is pushed towards the UI. Thus you always get a nice fluid experience, at the expense of multi-tasking (I accept this is a very basic view of the inner workings of iOS, but makes my point). Thus when Apple announced 'multi-tasking', it wasnt true multi-tasking as one would expect. But a hybrid, where everything took second stage to the UI. Thats the route apple have taken, nothing wrong with, however that was not Androids main aim. True the UX has improved alot from pre-honeycomb to current day. Is it perfect...only if you have a high end phone. I have an S3, not had any lag, in the year and a bit I have been using. Then again I am rooted, running a custom rom and custom kernal.
When I talk about WP8 being competitive I am not talking about marketshare or sales. Go and use a device and you will understand my point. The alternative it offers, polished and actually exciting to use. It is beginning to find its legs against the dominant OS, whilst only a minnow in sales it does knock spots off Android and iOS in how it uses and interprets your information.
OK, I thought you were on about marketshare. To be honest I have never used a WP device. So will take your word for it. However the UX maybe brilliant, but due to its lack of apps, the device isnt much use for people moving from Android/iOS.
I never once suggested Android put you in a straitjacket, yes it offers openness akin to that on a desktop. But to actually use it I would argue most people would find it difficult, the operating system reminds me of linux development there is the stable, tried tested and polished variant like Debian which will work on devices it is catered for, then the unstable bleeding edge such as ubuntu which is very temperamental. Android is like the latter, full of features which rarely get used.
I have to stress Android is a brilliant OS, it is well designed even given its shortcomings. I love having the ability to customise it the way I want I genuinely do prefer it to iOS for that reason. I just wish Google would concentrate on bringing the tablet platform up to scratch and streamlinging the UI as currently there is too much going on with the widgets and everything else.
The nature of software development as it is, it is bound not to feel as polished as something iOS. iOS develops on one device, with a fixed hardware. Android develops for a 100 devices, with a plethora of hardware configuration. Thus you can not do a good a job, as if you had one device to cater for. Considering the difficulties faced by Android, I think its an excellent OS, and does a great job.
As I posted in my first post (maybe second) on this thread, that google do need to start with a tablet section in the play store. This will at least bring to the fore, the apps that have been developed with a tablet in mind - something that should be quick and easy to do. Once they have done this, then yes look at other ways to improve the tablet experience. Google cant force 3rd party developers to create tablet specific apps. Some have done, some wont bother. I think Google should offer some sort of incentive (cash?) to developers, so they re-do their UI for tablets, build up a large portfolio of tablet specific apps.
The Android tablet market share is growing, as it grows, I can see developers creating tablet optimised apps. In the past, with a small market share, its not been worth it. Hopefully, this will change in near future. Android is growing very quickly in the tablet market, thus making it a possible market develops can make money from.
As I posted in my first post (maybe second) on this thread, that google do need to start with a tablet section in the play store. This will at least bring to the fore, the apps that have been developed with a tablet in mind - something that should be quick and easy to do. Once they have done this, then yes look at other ways to improve the tablet experience. Google cant force 3rd party developers to create tablet specific apps. Some have done, some wont bother. I think Google should offer some sort of incentive (cash?) to developers, so they re-do their UI for tablets, build up a large portfolio of tablet specific apps.
The Android tablet market share is growing, as it grows, I can see developers creating tablet optimised apps. In the past, with a small market share, its not been worth it. Hopefully, this will change in near future. Android is growing very quickly in the tablet market, thus making it a possible market develops can make money from.
I think one of the biggest issues with Android is users reluctance to invest in applications, be that premium or in-app purchases. You are right Google does need to create a separate tablet section, but I think it could go some way to offering a premium level experienc. As I understand it the hardware of most mid-range Android Tablets would be equal to that of any recent iPad, but for some reason developers continue to shun it. Maybe Google needs to rethink its strategy regarding it's growing market share, I would love to see some of the premium apps on iOS available for Android. Maybe Google does need to offer incentives to have people develop tablet applications, my fear is when people use an android tablet they will find the experience not much better than a smartphone. Although I suppose one could argue that iPad is just a big screen version of its phone cousin.
I want to see a flourishing tablet segment within Android as it would encourage competition and innovation, I just feel it will be a while before we reach that point. Google may surprise us and make Kitkat tablet focussed although I do believe they will primarily focus on smartphone.
You will find that most of the worlds developers are now prioritising Android over IOS.
A current main differential is that advertising dollars in the English speaking world chew around perceptions.
http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/09/06/why-a-growing-number-of-app-developers-in-asia-are-prioritizing-android-over-ios/
"Android not only accounts for the majority of its users, but provides greater scope for testing — that includes piloting new features with small numbers of users:"
"“When we started a year ago, our target audience was mainly in the US, so our focus was iOS. We went iOS first, Web second and Android only came six months later"
"Smith notes that Android users typically “pay less [and] complain more,” but he admits Android has grown to a point where it can’t be ignored – although Apple’s much-rumored iPhone 5C could disrupt that:
Talking of quality, with Apple probably still getting most its app money from in-app purchases, I recently caught the end of a program documenting the incentives that a radio authors 6 year old gets for buying in-game powers.
The child certainly enjoyed the expensive to make game and was reluctant to say that purchases at £24 (parent though it £48, child said £24) was not good value for money. It all reminded me of a Fruit Machine/Casino where the child is trained to gamble/pay bigger in order to gain more powers in the game. (not sure on final total, but it was easy to imagine completion of the game cost maybe £100)
I think one of the biggest issues with Android is users reluctance to invest in applications, be that premium or in-app purchases. You are right Google does need to create a separate tablet section, but I think it could go some way to offering a premium level experienc. As I understand it the hardware of most mid-range Android Tablets would be equal to that of any recent iPad, but for some reason developers continue to shun it. Maybe Google needs to rethink its strategy regarding it's growing market share, I would love to see some of the premium apps on iOS available for Android. Maybe Google does need to offer incentives to have people develop tablet applications, my fear is when people use an android tablet they will find the experience not much better than a smartphone. Although I suppose one could argue that iPad is just a big screen version of its phone cousin.
I want to see a flourishing tablet segment within Android as it would encourage competition and innovation, I just feel it will be a while before we reach that point. Google may surprise us and make Kitkat tablet focussed although I do believe they will primarily focus on smartphone.
I have read in quite a few reports, that Android users spend less than their iOS counterparts. To me it doesnt make sense. But I guess they must have the stats to back it up. I would have thought the money saved by buying an Android tablet could be used to purchase apps. But I guess Android users dont think like that.
If you are a developer, than you are more likely to develop for iOS rather than Android (assuming you have skills to write for both OS, or are choosing an OS to write for). As that is what will make the most money. Which is why I was suggesting that Google offer a cash incentive, thus enticing developers to write apps for Android tablets.
I think honeycomb was the last big 'tablet' release, and like you say we are due another one. You would have thought with Google resources they could have phone and tablet department, each doing their own stuff. Honeycomb give Android a good push, to bring them forward. It would seem the time is right for the next push.
To be fair, using apps that are optimised for tablet screen sizes, does offer a better experience than apps that are 'just made bigger' to fit the screen. However, to be honest, the experience with non-optimised apps isnt all that bad. Of course its not as good as optimised apps, but its far from rubbish, IMHO.
You will find that most of the worlds developers are now prioritising Android over IOS.
A current main differential is that advertising dollars in the English speaking world chew around perceptions.
http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/09/06/why-a-growing-number-of-app-developers-in-asia-are-prioritizing-android-over-ios/
"Android not only accounts for the majority of its users, but provides greater scope for testing — that includes piloting new features with small numbers of users:"
"“When we started a year ago, our target audience was mainly in the US, so our focus was iOS. We went iOS first, Web second and Android only came six months later"
"Smith notes that Android users typically “pay less [and] complain more,” but he admits Android has grown to a point where it can’t be ignored – although Apple’s much-rumored iPhone 5C could disrupt that:
Talking of quality, with Apple probably still getting most its app money from in-app purchases, I recently caught the end of a program documenting the incentives that a radio authors 6 year old gets for buying in-game powers.
The child certainly enjoyed the expensive to make game and was reluctant to say that purchases at £24 (parent though it £48, child said £24) was not good value for money. It all reminded me of a Fruit Machine/Casino where the child is trained to gamble/pay bigger in order to gain more powers in the game. (not sure on final total, but it was easy to imagine completion of the game cost maybe £100)
So quality, at what cost?
That is an interesting article. If companies are seriously thinking about Android, then its good news for people with Android tablets. As someone who plays a 'clash of clans' clone on android (jungle heat, very good, but drains the battery quicker than Usain Bolt runs the 100metres), I would welcome them to port Clash of clans over to Android.
I think honeycomb was the last big 'tablet' release, and like you say we are due another one.
Honeycomb was the only (IIRC) 'tablet' version of Android. Since ICS, it has been the same platform on both. They don't need a separate 'tablet' release - what would it offer?
To be fair, using apps that are optimised for tablet screen sizes, does offer a better experience than apps that are 'just made bigger' to fit the screen. However, to be honest, the experience with non-optimised apps isnt all that bad. Of course its not as good as optimised apps, but its far from rubbish, IMHO.
Spot on. I have a folder for apps that are only usable on my padfone when in phone mode. (mostly because they rely on portrait orientation). All of them will run on in tablet mode, and would be just about usable,but not worth the hassle) Every other app I use when in 'phone' mode works great in tablet mode, and not just scaled up.
17 apps out of 203 don't make the cut. (inc Cut the Rope, Minion Rush,Lloyds TSB and National Rail Enquiries)
There's a lot of high quality games missing too like Fifa 13 which never got released plus plenty of other exclusives.
Piracy is much higher on the Android due to its openness. The amount of money spent on iTunes is outstanding compared to Google Play despite apparently having 1 billion devices activated.
Comments
Think IOS maps and Windows 8 Market testing would have said 'don't do it'. Yet they do it because it suits their long term profit strategy.
Its why you have iPad apps and iPod apps. Add RT and Windows 8. Market testing would certainly confirm customers really prefer one open system, not 3 different systems like we have with closed Pod, close Pad and and open system PC.
and again, what more does Google need to do?
I think I may have been misunderstood what I mean is mass testing in the sense of a beta like that of which iOS7 and Windows 8.1 received.
One thing separate tablet and mobile apps better in Play store.
but you don't get separate apps. The same app works on both tablet and phone, and when you browse the play store from your device, it only shows apps that are compatible with your device.
I think a separate tablet app section is needed. I am fully aware of the Holo UI upscale convention which Google launched in 2011, but it hasn't been taken on by developers as much as it should have been.
So either Google need to force developers to do that, or they just put a separate tablet section into the Play Store. They need to boost Android on tablets.
Precisely what I am saying it really hasn't and honestly I still find a lot of android tablet supported apps awful take the marvel unlimited one for instance. On my iPad it works glorious on my Samsung it takes ages to even turn one page. Clearly they haven't been optimised properly.
Totally agree although iTunes works fine on my PC.
Another thing is the vanilla android you get on nexus etc has basically jack shit on it too. OK this is the intent but there's no spirit in those phones or tabs.
I find with android that not only are the apps poor quality, but you need to always go and find a 3rd party one to do something. When you do, its just not quite as good or requires more work compared to the integration and quality if apps on iOS.
For example my mate moved from iPhone to a HTC. The first thing was the lack of video sending . you couldn't simply make a video and send it to someone like you can on iOS. It requires a email, mms or a third party app that doesnt quite do the same or reqires the otherperson to have it etc. This is a feature hangouts should have included.
I get pissed of with Google music and how it doesn't physically download a propped file. The end user shouldn't have to delve around in files and folders looking for it, or having to go from the phone to a PC to have to log in and physically download the file from music ready to transfer back to the phone.
I have a nexus at the moment and to be frank its boring. Certainly developed for those who code instead of actually use a phone.
At the moment I think a lot of users are testing the water and looking for other alternatives. As I said before not a lot of my friends or android users in general are happy with their phone. They have something that's not quite right or not working etc. I have herd more people taking back a new (android) phone to the shop than apple too.
If android doesn't pull its socks up and delivers real quality lots will look too or move back to apple.
Eugh!!
Anyway, a few things not right here....
Plenty of spirit in my Nexus 4.
Absolute nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense in fact. You have been corrected many times on this already.
Rubbish. You can send via bluetooth, wifi direct, email and MMS. So basically, your 'mate' has no idea how to use the phone or your lying.
Yes you can.
Wrong.
I don't code and i love my Nexus 4. Best phone so far i have ever owned.
Please think before you decide to make up nonsense like this. There will always be someone with more knowledge than you. Which there always seems to be with you....
If your complaint about android is the lack of colour, then that is not a big issue. There are plenty of other apps that can add colour, if that is what you really want. No you do not have to be tech savvy to customise your phone. A launcher, skin and icons can all be installed from the play store. So no tech skill required. If you dont know how to install apps from the play store then yes you will struggle. That would then beg the question, why have a smartphone. Yes if you really want to go for a completely new and individual look, then you will need to be tech savy.
Some of the overlays that some manufacturers put on are not very good like touchwiz, sense is alot better. However then it comes back to choice. You can buy the HTC One which will come with sense, then you can buy the google version, which will come with just android. Its all about choice when it comes to android.
Andoid does not continue to need 'beefier specs', that is the way phones are moving. New models will come out with the latest processor, more RAM etc. This is not something restricted to Android.
As for WP8 becoming very competitive, err the sales figures so not reflect this. However I accept that this isnt all down to the OS.
The myth that you need to be tech savy to have an android is just plain rubbish. It does not put you in a straitjacket like iOS. For some people moving from iOS to Android, where you are offered more freedom, it scares them, and freak out. Thus automatically thinking that you need to tech savvy to use it.
I have a Nexus 7 and an ipad 3 and there is no comparison, the overall ipad experience is just far superior to the nexus 7. The nexus really only gets used if I need file system access for downloads etc.
I recently went travelling for 6 months and only took the nexus. The usability of the os and the apps can be really frustrating at times, the default keyboard for instance is really terrible.
I can only feel that non techies who are familiar with the quality of the ipad experience would be really disappointed by the android tablets as the experience currently stands.
I again largely agree with you. The Nexus 7 is an example of what should be a good tablet, the screen is very bright and sharp, the battery life is very good, it performs very smoothly. However I like you find it frustrating that there are very few third party apps that take advantage of the screen real estate. Its interesting you mention satisfaction, people I know who have android as a smartphone are generally quite pleased however as a tablet I have seen two people return a Galaxy Tab and exchange it for an iPad due to the lack of optimised applications, which basically shows how piss poor the android tablet platform is.
I will try and address each of your points as best as I can. You mention not needing to be tach savvy to install a new launcher and maybe a skin? Yeah people can go into the Play store and just click install......but I know the user would end up in the same situation as those who tried Windows 8 for the first time it would involve a hassle of learning how to use it. There is no natural instruction set, things get moved around labelled differently, this then leads to confusion and eventually user satisfaction dropping. Android is only easy if you know how and frankly most people don't know how to install a custom launcher and operate it. You might not need a science degree to install applications or custom launchers but to the average person you need one in which to operate it.
As for beefier specs you look at how Jellybean runs on a Galaxy Nexus and come it to the Nexus 4. The so called war on lag stopped when JB launched....at first it was great ran smoothly on the GN but now 4.3 does struggle to run on the device and that is with a stock launcher. Due to android's scale its becoming far more unmanageable and difficult to optimise Android really is late to the party on this one. With each eventual release you will notice current or previous gen hardware really will struggle, thats the same for most phones. However when you compare it to Blackberry OS, Windows Phone or iOS they offer a polished fluid operation. Microsoft laid down the minimum benchmarks WP devices has to operate to. Even from the outset when WP7 first launched the whole experience was very polished even for a debut OS. You look at some of the older WP devices and even with successive upgrades they still perform well and offer a polished experience. Why doesn't google dictate a minimum benchmark to ensure that Android feels polished and fluid? is it the hardware or software thats the problem? I personally believe its the software as some of the tech in these devices rivals that of a PC....so again comes back to Android not meeting the expectations of users using Apple as the benchmark.
When I talk about WP8 being competitive I am not talking about marketshare or sales. Go and use a device and you will understand my point. The alternative it offers, polished and actually exciting to use. It is beginning to find its legs against the dominant OS, whilst only a minnow in sales it does knock spots off Android and iOS in how it uses and interprets your information.
I never once suggested Android put you in a straitjacket, yes it offers openness akin to that on a desktop. But to actually use it I would argue most people would find it difficult, the operating system reminds me of linux development there is the stable, tried tested and polished variant like Debian which will work on devices it is catered for, then the unstable bleeding edge such as ubuntu which is very temperamental. Android is like the latter, full of features which rarely get used.
I have to stress Android is a brilliant OS, it is well designed even given its shortcomings. I love having the ability to customise it the way I want I genuinely do prefer it to iOS for that reason. I just wish Google would concentrate on bringing the tablet platform up to scratch and streamlinging the UI as currently there is too much going on with the widgets and everything else.
This echoes my point entirely I couldn't have put it better myself!
Using a launcher, would require no 'extra learning' to most of the functionality. The basics work pretty much the same on all launchers. True, to use the additional features, would require time to what the launcher can do, or how to do it. However this can range from watching a 3 min YouTube video, to reading some text. Granted this wont be for everyone, however if all you are bothered about is the look/lack of colour, you wont be bothered about the extra features.
Maybe because I am tech savvy, I under-estimate how easy it is to learn using new software. I am sure for some people its not that easy at all.
As new version of an OS come out, there is more functionality, thus will require better specs to run it as well. If you have a top end phone like the S4, S3, THC One, then the next couple of android version will run fine. If however you have a mid-range phone, the you will probably just about be able to run the next version. Low end phones will only run the OS version they have shipped with. I think from this point of view, its up to the user to realise if they buy an entry level phone, then there is no hope of moving up to the next os version. As you say, the reason why its not a problem for WP, is that Microsoft dictate a minimum spec. Android has no minimum, and iOS only release top end models. So its not odd that some Android phones struggle.
Comparing a mid-range Android phone to an iphone is flawed. You can not compare the £600 iphone to a £200 Android, unless its the Nexus 4. The UX on the iphone will be better. You have more processing power in the phone. You have to compare like for like. Also iOS is built around the UX - you are running an app, press the home button and the app will stop, as the processing is pushed towards the UI. Thus you always get a nice fluid experience, at the expense of multi-tasking (I accept this is a very basic view of the inner workings of iOS, but makes my point). Thus when Apple announced 'multi-tasking', it wasnt true multi-tasking as one would expect. But a hybrid, where everything took second stage to the UI. Thats the route apple have taken, nothing wrong with, however that was not Androids main aim. True the UX has improved alot from pre-honeycomb to current day. Is it perfect...only if you have a high end phone. I have an S3, not had any lag, in the year and a bit I have been using. Then again I am rooted, running a custom rom and custom kernal.
OK, I thought you were on about marketshare. To be honest I have never used a WP device. So will take your word for it. However the UX maybe brilliant, but due to its lack of apps, the device isnt much use for people moving from Android/iOS.
The nature of software development as it is, it is bound not to feel as polished as something iOS. iOS develops on one device, with a fixed hardware. Android develops for a 100 devices, with a plethora of hardware configuration. Thus you can not do a good a job, as if you had one device to cater for. Considering the difficulties faced by Android, I think its an excellent OS, and does a great job.
As I posted in my first post (maybe second) on this thread, that google do need to start with a tablet section in the play store. This will at least bring to the fore, the apps that have been developed with a tablet in mind - something that should be quick and easy to do. Once they have done this, then yes look at other ways to improve the tablet experience. Google cant force 3rd party developers to create tablet specific apps. Some have done, some wont bother. I think Google should offer some sort of incentive (cash?) to developers, so they re-do their UI for tablets, build up a large portfolio of tablet specific apps.
The Android tablet market share is growing, as it grows, I can see developers creating tablet optimised apps. In the past, with a small market share, its not been worth it. Hopefully, this will change in near future. Android is growing very quickly in the tablet market, thus making it a possible market develops can make money from.
I think one of the biggest issues with Android is users reluctance to invest in applications, be that premium or in-app purchases. You are right Google does need to create a separate tablet section, but I think it could go some way to offering a premium level experienc. As I understand it the hardware of most mid-range Android Tablets would be equal to that of any recent iPad, but for some reason developers continue to shun it. Maybe Google needs to rethink its strategy regarding it's growing market share, I would love to see some of the premium apps on iOS available for Android. Maybe Google does need to offer incentives to have people develop tablet applications, my fear is when people use an android tablet they will find the experience not much better than a smartphone. Although I suppose one could argue that iPad is just a big screen version of its phone cousin.
I want to see a flourishing tablet segment within Android as it would encourage competition and innovation, I just feel it will be a while before we reach that point. Google may surprise us and make Kitkat tablet focussed although I do believe they will primarily focus on smartphone.
A current main differential is that advertising dollars in the English speaking world chew around perceptions.
http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/09/06/why-a-growing-number-of-app-developers-in-asia-are-prioritizing-android-over-ios/
"Android not only accounts for the majority of its users, but provides greater scope for testing — that includes piloting new features with small numbers of users:"
"“When we started a year ago, our target audience was mainly in the US, so our focus was iOS. We went iOS first, Web second and Android only came six months later"
"Smith notes that Android users typically “pay less [and] complain more,” but he admits Android has grown to a point where it can’t be ignored – although Apple’s much-rumored iPhone 5C could disrupt that:
Talking of quality, with Apple probably still getting most its app money from in-app purchases, I recently caught the end of a program documenting the incentives that a radio authors 6 year old gets for buying in-game powers.
The child certainly enjoyed the expensive to make game and was reluctant to say that purchases at £24 (parent though it £48, child said £24) was not good value for money. It all reminded me of a Fruit Machine/Casino where the child is trained to gamble/pay bigger in order to gain more powers in the game. (not sure on final total, but it was easy to imagine completion of the game cost maybe £100)
So quality, at what cost?
I have read in quite a few reports, that Android users spend less than their iOS counterparts. To me it doesnt make sense. But I guess they must have the stats to back it up. I would have thought the money saved by buying an Android tablet could be used to purchase apps. But I guess Android users dont think like that.
If you are a developer, than you are more likely to develop for iOS rather than Android (assuming you have skills to write for both OS, or are choosing an OS to write for). As that is what will make the most money. Which is why I was suggesting that Google offer a cash incentive, thus enticing developers to write apps for Android tablets.
I think honeycomb was the last big 'tablet' release, and like you say we are due another one. You would have thought with Google resources they could have phone and tablet department, each doing their own stuff. Honeycomb give Android a good push, to bring them forward. It would seem the time is right for the next push.
To be fair, using apps that are optimised for tablet screen sizes, does offer a better experience than apps that are 'just made bigger' to fit the screen. However, to be honest, the experience with non-optimised apps isnt all that bad. Of course its not as good as optimised apps, but its far from rubbish, IMHO.
That is an interesting article. If companies are seriously thinking about Android, then its good news for people with Android tablets. As someone who plays a 'clash of clans' clone on android (jungle heat, very good, but drains the battery quicker than Usain Bolt runs the 100metres), I would welcome them to port Clash of clans over to Android.
Honeycomb was the only (IIRC) 'tablet' version of Android. Since ICS, it has been the same platform on both. They don't need a separate 'tablet' release - what would it offer?
Spot on. I have a folder for apps that are only usable on my padfone when in phone mode. (mostly because they rely on portrait orientation). All of them will run on in tablet mode, and would be just about usable,but not worth the hassle) Every other app I use when in 'phone' mode works great in tablet mode, and not just scaled up.
17 apps out of 203 don't make the cut. (inc Cut the Rope, Minion Rush,Lloyds TSB and National Rail Enquiries)
Piracy is much higher on the Android due to its openness. The amount of money spent on iTunes is outstanding compared to Google Play despite apparently having 1 billion devices activated.