Car Insurance - should I make a claim?

Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
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I have fully comprehensive cover, and pay extra for legal protection and breakdown assistance.

Today, I came to start my car and it had a flat battery so I called my breakdown / recovery company and they sent out a mechanic from their agent, a local (ish) recovery firm / garage.

The mechanic was sitting in my car, in the drivers seat, with his legs hanging out of the car leaning over on the passenger seat to tug at the carpet. The battery compartment is under the foot well of the passenger side.

I was walking into the house to get my phone so I had my back to the car. There was a loud bang (and a swear). I turned round to find that my car had rolled off my drive and into the side of his van and there was one veru surprised looking mechanic peeping over the dashboard.

The is very little (visible) damage, the car had only rolled three feet . The light cluster is damaged and needs a new indicator lens (which I think will require a whole light cluster) and a very small dent in the side of the van (though lord knows why it was a flimsy plastic bumper that contacted it at that point.

Much phoning later I was told that if I called their control centre, a decision would be made whether to replace the light cluster at my place of work or whether I'd have to take my car to their garage to get it fixed.

I called them when I got to work to be told that they weren't sure how to proceed. Their director said that as a "senior VOSA inspector" he would have to contact VOSA as the handbrake couldn't just release itself and was therefore faulty, therefore the claim for my car and his van would be on my insurance as my fault. However I pointed out to him that equally there was no guarantee that his engineer hadn't released the handbrake to allow the car t roll back away from a dwarf wall it was parked against. (as he would have had to to open the door to get the charging leads in through the passenger door.

The director said that the handbrake could fail (and would be part of an MOT test) I said that the car had been MOT'd and passed to which he pointed out that the MOT proves worthiness only on the day of the test as a car could have done 40,000 miles since it was tested.

This raises an interesting point. While the car was tested at the end of May it was done so only to get a tax disc so I wouldn't have to declare SORN. In fact I injured my arm at the end of April, and aside from driving it (with some difficulty) to the MOT centre and then back home it hasn't been driven since - which explains the flat battery.

I have the MOT document which recorded the mileage, and the breakdown company’s paperwork from this morning which shows the car has only done 13 miles (the distance from the MOT centre to home) between the date of the MOT and this morning.

The recovery company are obviously looking to worm out of paying for the car, so what should I do.

Start a claim through my insurance company. Make a complaint to my insurance company about their breakdown company or complain to the breakdown company about their agent.

I have had an independent mechanic look at the handbrake (though not a "senior VOSA inspector" and they can find no fault.

Advice, comments, support or censure all welcome.
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Comments

  • PaulS67PaulS67 Posts: 12,357
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    When you had the MOT done, did they give a list a things they advised getting done?, if so did it mention the Handbrake?
    When I have had my MOT's done, if anything is wearing out they usually recommend it gets fixed
    You could try checking back with the garage that did the MOT see if they remember anything about problems

    A thing to look out for if you are going to claim on your insurance, what is your excess amount?, if this is higher than it would cost to repair, all you will end up doing it affecting your no claims (you will still end up paying)
  • Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    I'd phone your Insurance company make a complaint against the mechanic, then tell them your making a claim against the Breakdown Company. Don't get involved talking to third parties, that's your insurance companies job. The car was fine parked on the drive, as far as I'm aware, and only moved when the mechanic was inside, so he must of done something!

    A rear light cluster could cost £1000 easily, and then there's other minor damage to your vehicle plus the mechanic's. Anyway you need to inform the insurance company, you've technically had an accident and there could potentially be a claim coming to them!
  • Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
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    Thank you both. It's put me in a bit of a qundrary. Certainly I shall be claiming un-insured losses. I wasn't in the car at the time and effectively (I believe) the mechanic was driving it - or in charge of it,

    I have checked the MOT - the only thing that came as an advisory were the front tyres, which I asked them to change at the time - as a maesure of how little it was driven the stickers are still on them. The mechanic I asked to look at the handbrake workes for an MOT testing garage, but not the garage that did the MOT, that was a Mercedes (Smart) dealer.

    I did call my insurance - but to get legal advice - which they can't provide unless I make a claim, which unless I'm forced to go that route, I'm relectant to do for all the cost / financial penalties assocaited with any claim.

    However, here's an interesting twist. If asked have I been involved in any accident, the answer is currently (touch wood) no. I wasn't driving the car at the time of the accident.
  • Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    ^^ yes, but the question is have you or your vehicle been involved in an accident, regardless whether a claim has been made. If the other guys try to claim from you and your insurance company aren't aware, it could cause you some trouble down the line, if they win a claim, then you will have to answer yes. So get in there first.

    Then there's the chance the mechanic goes off on sick, due to the accident, long shot, but you know how people can get when lawyers get involved.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32,379
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    You weren't in the car the mechanic was. Is he insured to "drive" your car.

    I can't see how the breakdown company can blame the handbrake as it was holding when the mechanic got into the car.

    Is it worth losing your NCD for a light cluster. What make and model is your car?
  • Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    ^^ But your car was involved in an accident, you should inform your insurance company, incase the other side put a claim in against you.
  • Keefy-boyKeefy-boy Posts: 13,561
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    Not only would you lose a year's NCD as Woodbush says, you'd also have to pay an excess if you claim on your own policy, hardly likely to be anywhere near worth making a claim.

    I'd give the garage another opportunity to fix it with the threat of a county court claim for the cost if they won't cooperate. Keep your insurer out of it.
  • Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
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    woodbush wrote: »
    Is it worth losing your NCD for a light cluster. What make and model is your car?

    I suppose it will depend on cost. It's a Smart. BUT the lights are an inegral part of a small body panel. The last time I had any problems was after a car drove into the back of me. The driver was going to pay as he found out the part was just £75.

    That increased when the body shop then charged an additional £150 for the paint, labour (and VAT)
  • Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    Keefy-boy wrote: »
    Not only would you lose a year's NCD as Woodbush says, you'd also have to pay an excess if you claim on your own policy, hardly likely to be anywhere near worth making a claim.

    I'd give the garage another opportunity to fix it with the threat of a county court claim for the cost if they won't cooperate. Keep your insurer out of it.

    The trouble is the garage are contesting this claim and may put a claim in themselves, so then what do you tell your insurance company.

    It's all well and good if it's a clear cut accident and the other party, pay up with no hassle. But this isn't clear cut, let the insurance company do the chasing, thats what you pay them for.
  • PaulS67PaulS67 Posts: 12,357
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    Would this come out of your insurance?

    The mechanic was technically in the drivers seat when it happened so it would be his insurance that covers it (what does your insurance document say about who can drive the car)

    eg

    My insurance only covers me as the driver my car
    I can also drive other peoples cars (with permission) and it goes on my insurance (3rd party only), not the vehicle owners insurance, unless they named me as a driver
    So if I was in the OP's car and had an accident it would be my insurance not his that would cover it
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32,379
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    Dan Sette wrote: »
    I suppose it will depend on cost. It's a Smart. BUT the lights are an inegral part of a small body panel. The last time I had any problems was after a car drove into the back of me. The driver was going to pay as he found out the part was just £75.

    That increased when the body shop then charged an additional £150 for the paint, labour (and VAT)

    It's worth getting a quote for the repair.

    I know the breakdown company are trying to blame the handbrake but they were in charge of the car at the time of the accident. It should be their insurance that should pay for the repair.

    They must have insurance for accidents.
  • Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
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    All your points are valid - and is why I'm dithering.

    I SHOULD contact my insurance and let the legal cards fall weherever they may.

    However I think I should let the breakdown company's agent (a smallish one site operation) have a chance to sort it out. I have less confisence having spoken to the director, but am havering over whether they are trying to wriggle out of it.

    In an interesting twist (and lets name names) My insurance company is Direct Line, who I also pay for the Breakdown service which is administered by Green Flag who are part of the same group. (as stated the above, they farmed the repair out to a third party).

    In my bullet headed approach (sometimes it pays to act thick) my initial approach was that as Direct Line insure the car, and provide my breakdown, and presumably the insurance to Green Flag (albiet in this instance they have used a third party) they should take responsibilty for sorting it out. As I said, they will not let me talk to the legal team until I make a claim.

    Naturlally the legal cover I pay for is also run by Direct Line. You's think this was going to be easy - I ssuspect it will end up with one department fighting another and in the end no-one will win.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32,379
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    I would be inclined to contact Green Flag as that who your cover is with.

    I'm with Green Flag and they use independants.
  • nitramsenojnitramsenoj Posts: 94
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    Did they get the car started?
  • thebtmanthebtman Posts: 706
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    Dan Sette wrote: »
    I have fully comprehensive cover, and pay extra for legal protection and breakdown assistance.

    Today, I came to start my car and it had a flat battery so I called my breakdown / recovery company and they sent out a mechanic from their agent, a local (ish) recovery firm / garage.

    The mechanic was sitting in my car, in the drivers seat, with his legs hanging out of the car leaning over on the passenger seat to tug at the carpet. The battery compartment is under the foot well of the passenger side.

    I was walking into the house to get my phone so I had my back to the car. There was a loud bang (and a swear). I turned round to find that my car had rolled off my drive and into the side of his van and there was one veru surprised looking mechanic peeping over the dashboard.

    The is very little (visible) damage, the car had only rolled three feet . The light cluster is damaged and needs a new indicator lens (which I think will require a whole light cluster) and a very small dent in the side of the van (though lord knows why it was a flimsy plastic bumper that contacted it at that point.

    Much phoning later I was told that if I called their control centre, a decision would be made whether to replace the light cluster at my place of work or whether I'd have to take my car to their garage to get it fixed.

    I called them when I got to work to be told that they weren't sure how to proceed. Their director said that as a "senior VOSA inspector" he would have to contact VOSA as the handbrake couldn't just release itself and was therefore faulty, therefore the claim for my car and his van would be on my insurance as my fault. However I pointed out to him that equally there was no guarantee that his engineer hadn't released the handbrake to allow the car t roll back away from a dwarf wall it was parked against. (as he would have had to to open the door to get the charging leads in through the passenger door.

    The director said that the handbrake could fail (and would be part of an MOT test) I said that the car had been MOT'd and passed to which he pointed out that the MOT proves worthiness only on the day of the test as a car could have done 40,000 miles since it was tested.

    This raises an interesting point. While the car was tested at the end of May it was done so only to get a tax disc so I wouldn't have to declare SORN. In fact I injured my arm at the end of April, and aside from driving it (with some difficulty) to the MOT centre and then back home it hasn't been driven since - which explains the flat battery.

    I have the MOT document which recorded the mileage, and the breakdown company’s paperwork from this morning which shows the car has only done 13 miles (the distance from the MOT centre to home) between the date of the MOT and this morning.

    The recovery company are obviously looking to worm out of paying for the car, so what should I do.

    Start a claim through my insurance company. Make a complaint to my insurance company about their breakdown company or complain to the breakdown company about their agent.

    I have had an independent mechanic look at the handbrake (though not a "senior VOSA inspector" and they can find no fault.

    Advice, comments, support or censure all welcome.

    Simple.

    Mechanic in control of vehicle.

    Its their problem.

    Send them a letter by registered mail demanding they fix it.
  • Adam DAdam D Posts: 5,124
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    In the way you described what he was doing, if it was in a normal style car with the handbreak in between the seats i imagine he's been leaning over and its sticking in the way so he's let it off so its not poking him in the back...

    It probably didn't move at first so hes carried on once its off but with him moving inside its moved the car and let it begin to roll.
  • Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
    Forum Member
    Did they get the car started?

    Yes. Although part of their "defence" is the mechanic wasn't driving it as he would have to have started the engine.
    thebtman wrote: »
    Simple.

    Mechanic in control of vehicle.

    Its their problem.

    Send them a letter by registered mail demanding they fix it.

    Yes. This was my thought. But they are now playing hard ball. They haven't NOT agreed to fix it, but depending on the cost they will make a claim though MY insurance as my car damaged their van. They claim that the handbrake must have been faulty and are now reserving the right to have it independantly inspected by VOSA (if nccessary)

    Adam D wrote: »
    In the way you described what he was doing, if it was in a normal style car with the handbreak in between the seats i imagine he's been leaning over and its sticking in the way so he's let it off so its not poking him in the back...

    It probably didn't move at first so hes carried on once its off but with him moving inside its moved the car and let it begin to roll.

    It was parked against a wall, and the battery is under the passenger footwell. It was pouring with rain and I agree with you. He released the handbrake to allow the car o roll back slightly to give him access when he needed to attached the charging leads, but to keep dry, the preparation work he did from the drivers side - i.e remove the mat, carpet and battery cover - which is a pig and requires a lot of tugging and jerking - I think that's when it moved.
  • SupratadSupratad Posts: 10,402
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    Dan Sette wrote: »
    They claim that the handbrake must have been faulty and are now reserving the right to have it independantly inspected by VOSA (if nccessary)
    .

    I wonder how independant the independant inspection really is.
    If you are confident that there is no problem with your handbrake and that they are not going to "sway" the results, then let them test it.
  • Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
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    Supratad wrote: »
    .
    If you are confident that there is no problem with your handbrake and that they are not going to "sway" the results, then let them test it.

    As confident as I can be.

    Without boring you with the full detail, I injured my arm just after Easter and was advised not to drive. However, in my enforced period of being chauffered the tax became due. Mrs Sette HATES driving the Smart so as a one shot deal, just to get it taxed (rather than SORN) I drove it to the MOT station, they recorded the mileage as part of the test - and this mileage is verified on the VOSA website.

    The car was then driven home and parked on the drive. There it sat until Tuesday (hence the flat battery). The breakdown firm also recorded the mileage and between 26/6 and 18/9 the car had travelled 20 miles (the distance between the MOT station and my house)

    They inferred that my car must have been faulty yesterday as "the MOT only covers the parts at the time of the test - you could have driven 30,000 miles since then"

    Because of the unique circumstances I knew it was effectively as at the MOT. BUT notwithstanding took it back yesterday to the mechanic who carried out the original MOT - following the breakdown firms implied suggestion that the MOT wasn't done properly. My mechanic (again not totally independant) carried out the test that the MOT would have done and confirmed that, as of yesterday afternoon the car would have passed that part of the test.

    The breakdown firm (while still reserving judgement to claim against me) have said that a pass means nothing. It could be one cog could be faulty in the ratchet menchanism and all the others may work apart from this one position. Therefore the whole handbrake mechanism would need to be taken apert and examined to determine fault.

    Though - as this dismantling isn't part of the MOT and the car has effectively passed twice in 20 miles I think is a straw clutching tactic.

    Moving into conjecture (I don't know) I believe that the mechanic if he was going to do anything that involved moving the car should have least had his foot (or able to place id foot) on the footbrake to be in full control.

    I have a horrible feeling it is going to go to insurance - with the down the line cost implications that entails.
  • SupratadSupratad Posts: 10,402
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    Interesting.
    I like the way they say the older MOT test was not relevant to the day the car rolled away, but then say a current MOT pass still means nothing.
    Such inconsistency smacks of desperation.

    Have to agree. Even if they admit liability, they clearly don't want to stump up the cash for repairs so will use their insurance, and knowing the way insurance companies work, if they can squeeze a bit more cash out of you as well, they will.
  • Galaxy266Galaxy266 Posts: 7,049
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    The mechanic was in charge of the car at the time of the accident and, I strongly suspect, if you should choose to take the legal route, driving.

    Surely, as part of the repair, it was up to him to carry out an initial risk assessment and consider what could possibly happen to both himself and the car, before commencing the repair? If the car was parked on a slope then, quite obviously, the car rolling down the slope was a distinct possibility, and the mechanic should have anticipated this and taken suitable steps in order to prevent the occurrence. This could have been achieved by either putting a block in front of one of the wheels, and/or putting the car in gear. But he clearly didn't do either in this case.

    I don't see any way that you can be held responsible for what happened, OP, because the mechanic was in charge of the car at the time the accident occurred. I think the handbrake issue is a red herring; even if the handnrake didn't work at all I would still say that, working on a vehicle with which he is unfamiliar, the mechanic should have checked it before attempting the repair.

    I do hope you are successful in claiming against the recoevery company, OP. Things like this really annoy me.

    The recovery company are obviously trying every trick in the book to attempt to avoid being held responsible.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 361
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    Dan Sette wrote: »
    The mechanic was sitting in my car, in the drivers seat, with his legs hanging out of the car leaning over on the passenger seat to tug at the carpet. The battery compartment is under the foot well of the passenger side.

    It's very, very likely that the mechanic was leaning on the handbrake - causing it to release. This can happen.

    All that VOSA crap was probably just to scare you in to thinking that it was your fault.

    Whatever you decide to do, you must notify your insurer of the incident. Even if you don't make a claim or the garage pays you directly.
  • Bus Stop2012Bus Stop2012 Posts: 5,624
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    bt.man had it right. Send a letter with the repair estimate to the breakdown firm - it doesn't need to be registered post. Advise them that you will issue county court proceedings if they fail to settle your claim. Don't get sidetracked by their worthless threat to claim against you for their damaged vehicle. Your insurance company would tell them where to stick such a claim :D

    Their agent, the mechanic has caused damage to your car through his own negligence. Its as simple as that. DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY ACCESS TO YOUR CAR. If they are alleging your handbrake is faulty, they have to prove it. Don't allow them to tamper with it.

    pm me if you need further advice.
  • Dan SetteDan Sette Posts: 5,816
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    Thank you all for your advice so far. I am taking all your comments on board.

    Currently there is a breathing space. The recovery company have asked for photos of the damage to assess costs.

    Meanwhile my insurance company have asked me not to formalise the claim until there is a claim to be made. The person I was talking to - though not "official" advice has said that should it come to making a claim, then my first tack should actually be a complaint against the breakdown company I have a contract with (Green Flag - not THEIR contracted agent). As Green Flag is in essence also my insurance company I should complain to them and see where that goes first.

    I'll keep you posted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32,379
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    Dan Sette wrote: »
    Thank you all for your advice so far. I am taking all your comments on board.

    Currently there is a breathing space. The recovery company have asked for photos of the damage to assess costs.

    Meanwhile my insurance company have asked me not to formalise the claim until there is a claim to be made. The person I was talking to - though not "official" advice has said that should it come to making a claim, then my first tack should actually be a complaint against the breakdown company I have a contract with (Green Flag - not THEIR contracted agent). As Green Flag is in essence also my insurance company I should complain to them and see where that goes first.

    I'll keep you posted.

    I suggested that in post 14. That would be my first point of contact.
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