Went to Yorkshire Show in summer and the biggest reaction from the crowd was the entrance of the local Hunt into the ring. The crowd rose to their feet and clapped and cheered for what must have been 5 mins. The reporting of this issue by the metropolitan liberal elite media is akin to immigration. They haven't the foggiest notion about what the folks on the ground really think. They tell them constantly what they should think. Lecturing lefties.
Went to Yorkshire Show in summer and the biggest reaction from the crowd was the entrance of the local Hunt into the ring. The crowd rose to their feet and clapped and cheered for what must have been 5 mins. The reporting of this issue by the metropolitan liberal elite media is akin to immigration. They haven't the foggiest notion about what the folks on the ground really think. They tell them constantly what they should think. Lecturing lefties.
The British people are overwhelmingly opposed to hunting -
Went to Yorkshire Show in summer and the biggest reaction from the crowd was the entrance of the local Hunt into the ring. The crowd rose to their feet and clapped and cheered for what must have been 5 mins. The reporting of this issue by the metropolitan liberal elite media is akin to immigration. They haven't the foggiest notion about what the folks on the ground really think. They tell them constantly what they should think. Lecturing lefties.
Maybe they should be given a taste of what it feels like to be hunted in such a manner.
1. No it isn't. There are many party drones on here (from both "sides"), and you are one of them. As you haven't denied your tribalism you must in reality accept the badge.
2. I would say it is highly unlikely he ate the birds. His main motivation in shooting them was because he is missing killing bigger things.
Even if he did eat them - what difference would that make?
It is the enjoyment of the kill that I find disturbing.
If you don't know whether he ate the birds, then you cannot know that 2 is correct. Seeing as wood pigeon is a popular dish, I think an educated guess would be that he did.
The difference him eating it makes is that he killed for a purpose and not just for killings sake. Shooting is most often for eating and fox hunting is for the latter.
I enjoy fishing, I loathe fox hunting. I didn't enjoy the fish dying, I felt sad for it, but I enjoyed the fishing itself and I felt a sense of pleasure eating the fish that I had caught. You can enjoy aspects of of a hunt without the actual killing part.
Enjoying hunting for your food is one of the most natural instincts in the world, some enjoy it, some don't. It doesn't make the ones who enjoy hunting for their food any worse. Killing for killings sake is wrong and a totally different thing.
I don't understand why you don't get the difference.
If you don't know whether he ate the birds, then you cannot know that 2 is correct. Seeing as wood pigeon is a popular dish, I think an educated guess would be that he did.
The difference him eating it makes is that he killed for a purpose and not just for killings sake. Shooting is most often for eating and fox hunting is for the latter.
I enjoy fishing, I loathe fox hunting. I didn't enjoy the fish dying, I felt sad for it, but I enjoyed the fishing itself and I felt a sense of pleasure eating the fish that I had caught. You can enjoy aspects of of a hunt without the actual killing part.
Enjoying hunting for your food is one of the most natural instincts in the world, some enjoy it, some don't. It doesn't make the ones who enjoy hunting for their food any worse. Killing for killings sake is wrong and a totally different thing.
I don't understand why you don't get the difference.
OK, can you explain why people go grouse shooting if they don't like killing things? The skill needed is the same as for clay pigeon shooting, with the added bonus of being on open moors and the opportunity to bad a beater (I've been narrowly missed, the person next to me in the line got a pellet in the face - student days). You only get to keep a brace, if any, so the justification for shooting for food isn't there.
As far as I can see, it's the enjoyment or satisfaction of killing a small bird that makes the difference, plus the chance of hobnobbing with some other toffs.
OK, can you explain why people go grouse shooting if they don't like killing things? The skill needed is the same as for clay pigeon shooting, with the added bonus of being on open moors and the opportunity to bad a beater (I've been narrowly missed, the person next to me in the line got a pellet in the face - student days). You only get to keep a brace, if any, so the justification for shooting for food isn't there.
As far as I can see, it's the enjoyment or satisfaction of killing a small bird that makes the difference, plus the chance of hobnobbing with some other toffs.
You can eat grouse Because they enjoy hunting for their dinner? I don't like killing animals, but I would do if I needed too. No one needs to, but some people enjoy going out and hunting their dinner and the necessity of killing it to eat it, just comes with the territory. I dunno, but I much prefer the idea of going out and hunting a pheasant that has lived a wonderful free life, than buying a chicken from a supermarket and has lived in less than free condition all it's life.
Some people like to source their own meat, it doesn't mean they do it because they enjoy killing.
I personally, do not see the point in killing living things unless you are going to use them and I don't agree with others doing it either.
I only know two people who hunt (not closely) for food and they are about as far removed from Toffs as you could get.
If you don't know whether he ate the birds, then you cannot know that 2 is correct. Seeing as wood pigeon is a popular dish, I think an educated guess would be that he did.
The difference him eating it makes is that he killed for a purpose and not just for killings sake. Shooting is most often for eating and fox hunting is for the latter.
I enjoy fishing, I loathe fox hunting. I didn't enjoy the fish dying, I felt sad for it, but I enjoyed the fishing itself and I felt a sense of pleasure eating the fish that I had caught. You can enjoy aspects of of a hunt without the actual killing part.
Enjoying hunting for your food is one of the most natural instincts in the world, some enjoy it, some don't. It doesn't make the ones who enjoy hunting for their food any worse. Killing for killings sake is wrong and a totally different thing.
I don't understand why you don't get the difference.
Well, at least you loathe fox hunting - that's one thing (but a very important thing).
The "did he or didn't he eat the pigeons" issue is an irrelevance - people indulge in wood pigeon shooting because they enjoy it - the shooting. The object is to kill the birds, thus displaying their "skill" at shooting. I think you are sorely mistaken if their main thoughts are on the meal later!
Do you think the customers at this typical shooting business ate all the birds they shot?
As I have repeated endlessly on here (but some seem strangely to ignore it) my concern is not with the eating of animals but the mindset of those who enjoy the process of killing them.
Cameron has said he misses the shooting of the deer he used to kill - that is an example of that mindset that I do not find quite "right".
If you drew to my attention a worker in an abattoir who said he enjoyed killing the animals there I would feel exactly the same towards him too!
Pigeon shooting has a growing following of almost 230,000 sportspeople who cull at least a third of the current 20 million wood pigeon population every year.
However the word cull would seem to indicate that if the "sportsmen" did not kill them then someone else would need to.
The estimated 20 million UK wood pigeon population means these birds are a dominant arable and woodland species, and the UK's largest and commonest pigeon. They are also a pest; they are like locusts in that during the winter months they flock in large numbers and decimate crops, sometimes numbering two - three thousands at a time. This also makes decoying quite difficult as the flock will stick together, moving fields swiftly, so covering as many fields as possible with a gun can be an advantage.
Wood pigeons breed two or three times a year, especially during long, hot summers, and have a clutch of 2 eggs, pigeon young are called squabs , Mature, well-fed adults can weight in at a pound and a half.
...
Well, at least you loathe fox hunting - that's one thing (but a very important thing).
The "did he or didn't he eat the pigeons" issue is an irrelevance - people indulge in wood pigeon shooting because they enjoy it - the shooting. The object is to kill the birds, thus displaying their "skill" at shooting. I think you are sorely mistaken if their main thoughts are on the meal later!
Do you think the customers at this typical shooting business ate all the birds they shot?
As I have repeated endlessly on here (but some seem strangely to ignore it) my concern is not with the eating of animals but the mindset of those who enjoy the process of killing them.
Cameron has said he misses the shooting of the deer he used to kill - that is an example of that mindset that I do not find quite "right".
If you drew to my attention a worker in an abattoir who said he enjoyed killing the animals there I would feel exactly the same towards him too!
I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you are perhaps taking the idea of 'enjoying killing' too literally. I think most people who hunt for food enjoy it, they may not enjoy the specific part of the animal dying, but they enjoy the process overall and would probably say 'I enjoy hunting', without perhaps specifically meaning the killing part, but people would perhaps infer that they enjoy that part too.
I do not agree with fox hunting or killing animals if you're not going to use them and I find it difficult to understand why someone would enjoy taking a life for the sake of it. I too would eye someone with suspicion if they enjoyed killing for the sake of it and that is all they ever did, but most people who hunt, simply don't. I understand the need for population control and culling and I imagine that the professional hunters would take pride in their work.
I don't agree with your abbatoir comment. Someone's got to do it and I don't think there is anything wrong with making sure an unpleasant process is done as swiftly and as painlessly as possible. If I worked in an abbatoir, I'd most likely hate every second of it but knowing that I was dispatching the animals in the most humane way possible, would make me feel better. The lesser of two evils if you will.
You can eat grouse Because they enjoy hunting for their dinner? I don't like killing animals, but I would do if I needed too. No one needs to, but some people enjoy going out and hunting their dinner and the necessity of killing it to eat it, just comes with the territory. I dunno, but I much prefer the idea of going out and hunting a pheasant that has lived a wonderful free life, than buying a chicken from a supermarket and has lived in less than free condition all it's life.
Some people like to source their own meat, it doesn't mean they do it because they enjoy killing.
I personally, do not see the point in killing living things unless you are going to use them and I don't agree with others doing it either.
I only know two people who hunt (not closely) for food and they are about as far removed from Toffs as you could get.
If they only shot what they are going to eat, then I could understand it, but at most they are allowed to keep a brace. The rest go into shops. They also pay a fortune for a couple of birds with hardly any meat on them.
I have no objection to hunting for food. I have a friend who is ex army and he comes up to Scotland for a week every year and shoots a couple of old stags (past the breeding stage) but takes everything home with him. The dogs enjoy the inedible bits! At home in Essex he shoots Muntjak and then eats the beast. No problem with that, but he uses a rifle and wouldn't be seen dead with the shotgun crowd on pheasant shoots etc.
I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you are perhaps taking the idea of 'enjoying killing' too literally. [1]I think most people who hunt for food enjoy it, they may not enjoy the specific part of the animal dying, but they enjoy the process overall and would probably say 'I enjoy hunting',without perhaps specifically meaning the killing part, but people would perhaps infer that they enjoy that part too.
I do not agree with fox hunting or killing animals if you're not going to use them and I find it difficult to understand why someone would enjoy taking a life for the sake of it. I too would eye someone with suspicion if they enjoyed killing for the sake of it and that is all they ever did, but most people who hunt, simply don't. [2]I understand the need for population control and culling and I imagine that the professional hunters would take pride in their work.
[3]I don't agree with your abbatoir comment. Someone's got to do it and I don't think there is anything wrong with making sure an unpleasant process is done as swiftly and as painlessly as possible. If I worked in an abbatoir, I'd most likely hate every second of it but knowing that I was dispatching the animals in the most humane way possible, would make me feel better. The lesser of two evils if you will.
1. Yes, but surely the object of shooting is the killing part? Look at those photos of the customers of that establishment crouched over the corpses of the dead woodies - that was their object, to kill as many as possible for their ten pennyworth.
2. Agreed.
3. Well, I was speaking of an abattoir worker who positively enjoyed what he did.
1. Yes, but surely the object of shooting is the killing part? Look at those photos of the customers of that establishment crouched over the corpses of the dead woodies - that was their object, to kill as many as possible for their ten pennyworth.
2. Agreed.
3. Well, I was speaking of an abattoir worker who positively enjoyed what he did.
1. Maybe. I think it's not something we can say either way really. I have always enjoyed fishing whenever I've been (not a hobby or anything) and I would most certainly be proud of my catch and show it off proudly, but I would still have felt bad that the fish died. It is possible to do both, but I would agree with you if it was enjoying the sheer killing spree for no purpose.
2. OK.
3. I think you'd be hard pushed to find many that do, to be honest. As I understand it from watching various stuff on the topic, is that most don't enjoy it, but if they have to do it, they try to take some pride in making sure that they do it 'right' and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
We know, you've said it often enough. Some of us don't, as long as it's done as quickly and humanely as possible.
One time when we went fishing on holiday the fish all got thrown into this big empty bucket to die and I felt so bad that I went and whacked them all over the head with a weight to kill them straight away
2. I didn't highlight it. You were the one who raised the idea of killing for supper - in the case of a "working class man" fishing. I was answering you.
You made the claim and now you've backed down. Let me tell you, you're being torn to shreds in this thread....
Again, it is completely irrelevant what became of the woodies after they had been blasted by DC - whether they were taken home in triumph to Sam to cook or left to rot on the floor of the wood.
Again. You've changed your tune. This was important in your earlier post.
4. No, I am not tying myself up in knots. It is you who will not engage with my objection to these sports, trying (in your usual way) to deflect the discussion into an irrelevancy.
What difference does that make? The concept of killing for pleasure is the issue here, not the eating of wood pigeons.
If he did or did not eat makes a difference.
And why can a person not find pleasure in sourcing their own food? Or should it all come from Waitrose or Lidl in packaging?
I always guess that the pleasure of the hunt, is the ability to find a food source, and have the ability to catch/kill and then eat it.
Now if he has stuffed the pigeon and put it out on display as a a trophy, I would be worried,
Comments
Perhaps they were simply going to play with it for a bit and spit it out.
He bagged a couple of pidgeons. Do we know they were not eaten?
The British people are overwhelmingly opposed to hunting -
Fox hunting - 80%
Deer hunting - 85%
Hare coursing/hunting - 87%
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3315/Hunting-Poll-2013.aspx
Our PM has participated in the first two, of course.
Maybe they should be given a taste of what it feels like to be hunted in such a manner.
What difference does that make? The concept of killing for pleasure is the issue here, not the eating of wood pigeons.
If you don't know whether he ate the birds, then you cannot know that 2 is correct. Seeing as wood pigeon is a popular dish, I think an educated guess would be that he did.
The difference him eating it makes is that he killed for a purpose and not just for killings sake. Shooting is most often for eating and fox hunting is for the latter.
I enjoy fishing, I loathe fox hunting. I didn't enjoy the fish dying, I felt sad for it, but I enjoyed the fishing itself and I felt a sense of pleasure eating the fish that I had caught. You can enjoy aspects of of a hunt without the actual killing part.
Enjoying hunting for your food is one of the most natural instincts in the world, some enjoy it, some don't. It doesn't make the ones who enjoy hunting for their food any worse. Killing for killings sake is wrong and a totally different thing.
I don't understand why you don't get the difference.
OK, can you explain why people go grouse shooting if they don't like killing things? The skill needed is the same as for clay pigeon shooting, with the added bonus of being on open moors and the opportunity to bad a beater (I've been narrowly missed, the person next to me in the line got a pellet in the face - student days). You only get to keep a brace, if any, so the justification for shooting for food isn't there.
As far as I can see, it's the enjoyment or satisfaction of killing a small bird that makes the difference, plus the chance of hobnobbing with some other toffs.
Deer hunting or deer stalking as a necessary part of herd management?
You can eat grouse
Some people like to source their own meat, it doesn't mean they do it because they enjoy killing.
I personally, do not see the point in killing living things unless you are going to use them and I don't agree with others doing it either.
I only know two people who hunt (not closely) for food and they are about as far removed from Toffs as you could get.
Well, at least you loathe fox hunting - that's one thing (but a very important thing).
The "did he or didn't he eat the pigeons" issue is an irrelevance - people indulge in wood pigeon shooting because they enjoy it - the shooting. The object is to kill the birds, thus displaying their "skill" at shooting. I think you are sorely mistaken if their main thoughts are on the meal later!
Do you think the customers at this typical shooting business ate all the birds they shot?
Killing for killing's sake, don't you think?
http://www.pigeons-r-us.co.uk/
As I have repeated endlessly on here (but some seem strangely to ignore it) my concern is not with the eating of animals but the mindset of those who enjoy the process of killing them.
Cameron has said he misses the shooting of the deer he used to kill - that is an example of that mindset that I do not find quite "right".
If you drew to my attention a worker in an abattoir who said he enjoyed killing the animals there I would feel exactly the same towards him too!
However the word cull would seem to indicate that if the "sportsmen" did not kill them then someone else would need to.
Wood Pigeons - AKA Columba Palumbus
Wood pigeons are a well known pest in large flocks in the countryside.
I am not disputing that certain animals have to be culled from time to time.
Again, it is the concept of people doing it for pleasure I find distasteful.
I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you are perhaps taking the idea of 'enjoying killing' too literally. I think most people who hunt for food enjoy it, they may not enjoy the specific part of the animal dying, but they enjoy the process overall and would probably say 'I enjoy hunting', without perhaps specifically meaning the killing part, but people would perhaps infer that they enjoy that part too.
I do not agree with fox hunting or killing animals if you're not going to use them and I find it difficult to understand why someone would enjoy taking a life for the sake of it. I too would eye someone with suspicion if they enjoyed killing for the sake of it and that is all they ever did, but most people who hunt, simply don't. I understand the need for population control and culling and I imagine that the professional hunters would take pride in their work.
I don't agree with your abbatoir comment. Someone's got to do it and I don't think there is anything wrong with making sure an unpleasant process is done as swiftly and as painlessly as possible. If I worked in an abbatoir, I'd most likely hate every second of it but knowing that I was dispatching the animals in the most humane way possible, would make me feel better. The lesser of two evils if you will.
If they only shot what they are going to eat, then I could understand it, but at most they are allowed to keep a brace. The rest go into shops. They also pay a fortune for a couple of birds with hardly any meat on them.
I have no objection to hunting for food. I have a friend who is ex army and he comes up to Scotland for a week every year and shoots a couple of old stags (past the breeding stage) but takes everything home with him. The dogs enjoy the inedible bits! At home in Essex he shoots Muntjak and then eats the beast. No problem with that, but he uses a rifle and wouldn't be seen dead with the shotgun crowd on pheasant shoots etc.
1. Yes, but surely the object of shooting is the killing part? Look at those photos of the customers of that establishment crouched over the corpses of the dead woodies - that was their object, to kill as many as possible for their ten pennyworth.
2. Agreed.
3. Well, I was speaking of an abattoir worker who positively enjoyed what he did.
1. Maybe. I think it's not something we can say either way really. I have always enjoyed fishing whenever I've been (not a hobby or anything) and I would most certainly be proud of my catch and show it off proudly, but I would still have felt bad that the fish died. It is possible to do both, but I would agree with you if it was enjoying the sheer killing spree for no purpose.
2. OK.
3. I think you'd be hard pushed to find many that do, to be honest. As I understand it from watching various stuff on the topic, is that most don't enjoy it, but if they have to do it, they try to take some pride in making sure that they do it 'right' and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Rather killing for culling's sake in the example you posted.
If they didn't pay to shoot the birds the farmers would probably have to pay someone else to shoot them instead.
We know, you've said it often enough. Some of us don't, as long as it's done as quickly and humanely as possible.
One time when we went fishing on holiday the fish all got thrown into this big empty bucket to die and I felt so bad that I went and whacked them all over the head with a weight to kill them straight away
Still enjoyed the fishing though!
You could give a masterclass in being patronising. I do hope you are aware how you come across.
You made the claim and now you've backed down. Let me tell you, you're being torn to shreds in this thread....
I have no strong view on hunting so despite your kind offer to engage, will not be accepting.
Again. You've changed your tune. This was important in your earlier post.
Others have already answered this point better than I can and it is to those points you need to respond.
You're the poster who goes on about class more than any other. I don't obsess or even care for the concept.
Delfect how?
So why did you fish? What was the attraction?
I have been finishing but didn't find it very entertaining and I don't like eating fish.
If he did or did not eat makes a difference.
And why can a person not find pleasure in sourcing their own food? Or should it all come from Waitrose or Lidl in packaging?
I always guess that the pleasure of the hunt, is the ability to find a food source, and have the ability to catch/kill and then eat it.
Now if he has stuffed the pigeon and put it out on display as a a trophy, I would be worried,