Just got a kdl 40z4500 and wandered....

[Deleted User] · 23/07/09 - 15:40

.....what hardened viewers of this tv would recommend settings to be for somebody who watches a lot of sport? I'm just playing around atm so not that familiar with it yet but wandered what people could advise as far as picture/motion settings go. I realise it's all matter of taste but seeing what others have may improve things for me. I'm on v+ but am looking to move to sky hd as I don't think I'll get much (hd) use out of it on virgin!

edit: In fact, has anybody got any general advice to help me get the best out of this tv please?

[Deleted User] · 25/07/09 - 07:53

Anybody able to help or is this tv obsolete now that it's younger bro the 5500 is out!

Nigel Goodwin · 25/07/09 - 09:18

They are personal settings - you set them how YOU personally prefer them.

No one can tell you how loud you should set the volume, and they can't tell you how to set anything else either.

nancyboy · 25/07/09 - 09:39

It is indeed a matter of taste but you could try the Which? recommended settings to see if they look good to you ...

Brightness 49/100
Contrast 77/100
Colour 57/100
Picture profile Standard
Sharpness 19/30
Backlight 5/10
Colour temperature Cool
Noise reduction Low
MPEG noise reduction Medium
Adv. contrast enhancer Off
Live colour Off
Colour space Wide
Motionflow Off

Chris Frost · 25/07/09 - 15:01

Whilst personal preference does come in to the equation there is definitely a correct way to set up the basic controls of a TV.

Brightness (black level), contrast (white point), sharpness and colour can all be set to the correct levels for that specific TV in a specific viewing room with the sources that it will be used to view. The trouble is that no two people have exactly the room, nor are two examples of the same TV ever identical, nor are the signals that the TV will be used to view. Similar...yes...but not identical. That's why those of us in-the-know learn how to set up a TV or projector properly.

You can learn this too. It isn't difficult. It isn't expensive. If viewing quality is important to you then it's a valuable skill that will stay with you for life. It'll cost you under £15 and take you less that 30 minutes to learn.

Start off with the right tools for the job. In this case it is a test disc called PAL Digital Video Essentials (PAL DVE). [LINK] The cheapskates will suggest you use the THX Optimiser test patterns that are free on some films. You're cheating yourself if you do...

Not all the THX test patterns are recorded at the correct (reference) levels
The THX discs are very very basic.
Only a proper test disc has the tutorials to help you understand what you are changing and more importantly why
THX won't help you with Gamma settings that TVs now regularly feature
The PAL DVE disc also has audio tones for setting up a surround kit properly

If that's not worth £15 then you you don't deserve a decent TV.

nancyboy wrote: »

It is indeed a matter of taste but you could try the Which? recommended settings to see if they look good to you ...

Brightness 49/100
Contrast 77/100
Colour 57/100
Picture profile Standard
Sharpness 19/30
Backlight 5/10
Colour temperature Cool
Noise reduction Low
MPEG noise reduction Medium
Adv. contrast enhancer Off
Live colour Off
Colour space Wide
Motionflow Off

There are a couple of really glaring errors with Which's recommended settings.

Colour Temp: Cool.

Out of the box most TVs have too much blue in the picture. Its a cheat used by TV makers to help the whites appear brighter. The excess of blue affects the other colours too. e.g. Caucasian skin tones look magenta (reddy-blue) rather than pink. It affects all the other colours too. Put your TV on warm (or at least normal) to get something closer to correct skin tones.

Colour space: Wide.

The Wide setting should only be used with HD material - specifically Blu-ray. With ordinary DVDs and TV images it puts too much green in to the picture.

Now, you could argue that TVs aren't mixing colour correctly in the first place unless they're calibrated; and to an extent I would agree. But screwing things up even more by added lots of extra green isn't really going to help, is it.

Fatwaz · 25/07/09 - 15:10

agree if you want to set brightness and contrast up properly get the dve disc or equivilent.

Dave48 · 25/07/09 - 17:17

Well...I've used the "THX Optimizer" in the past with pretty good results and I certainly don't regard myself as a "CHEAPSKATE"!

I have now set my LCD up with this disc which is a free download, more cheapskating

.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

Although for HD I've found the settings work fine on SD as well.

It depends on how far you wish to go really. If you just want to set the levels to get a good picture for normal viewing of programs and DVD's etc then the above would be adequate.

On the other hand if you've got a set-up which you've ploughed thousands of pounds into (I haven't) then yes look for the more professional options.

The only problem with this subject is you can be constantly tweaking and adjusting because every TV program, film or DVD will have differences on colour etc so the best you can hope for are levels that give reasonable results for every type of platform.

In the end these settings are a personal choice as to what you consider looks good and are happy with; surely everybody has visited a friend or relative and cringed at the picture on their TV; and when they've visited you they most likely think the same about yours.

As far as sound I've recently used an "SPL" meter to adjust sound levels and am very happy with the result....but that's another area you can get bogged down in.

[Deleted User] · 25/07/09 - 18:10

Thanks for the replies - I'll def take a look at the calibration disc/download - the pic was very blue looking when it came out the box. Some of the films I've recorded by v+ look stunning but some of the channels on virgin look very ordinary - attheaces being especially poor but even the bbc was 'blocky' earlier- sky hd draws ever closer! I'm also looking at getting an optical audio cable but they don't seem to have the right connection to go into my amp (a kandy III) do i have to get an adapter for the amp end? Ta

Fatwaz · 25/07/09 - 18:33

some channels will always be poor like ATR as they dont transmit a high enough bit rate unlike say bbc who have a high bitrate meaning better pictures.

dave that d/l is good i have it myself.just d/l and burn to dvd but it will only play on a bluray player i believe so thats why i never mentioned it.

i am on the brink of doing my greyscale through the service menu on my panasonic plasma as i know it could and should be better from the out the box settings.

Chris Frost · 26/07/09 - 05:34

Dave48 wrote: »

The only problem with this subject is you can be constantly tweaking and adjusting because every TV program, film or DVD will have differences on colour etc so the best you can hope for are levels that give reasonable results for every type of platform.

I'm sorry to say it, but that statement shows a lack of understanding of the principles of TV production when it comes to picture standards.

The European Broadcast Union and its American counterpart have each sets of standards that define the characteristics and specifcations of video signals. These standards are used by the whole of the PAL and NTSC region video industry.

Those of us who set up displays on a professional basis use these same standards. A TV or display which is adjusted correctly will allow the viewer to see the image as it is meant to be seen.

This is what you are aiming for when adjusting the set. You want as true and as faithful a representation of the source image as possible. Sometimes the source image is good, sometimes it isn't; but does that mean that we shouldn't at least have the opportunity to see it accurately?

Once a TV is set up properly then the need to "be constantly tweaking" the settings goes away. It's only if the TV is adjusted badly that you'll need to ride the controls.

Dave48 · 26/07/09 - 13:26

Chris Frost wrote: »

I'm sorry to say it, but that statement shows a lack of understanding of the principles of TV production when it comes to picture standards.

The European Broadcast Union and its American counterpart have each sets of standards that define the characteristics and specifcations of video signals. These standards are used by the whole of the PAL and NTSC region video industry.

Those of us who set up displays on a professional basis use these same standards. A TV or display which is adjusted correctly will allow the viewer to see the image as it is meant to be seen.

This is what you are aiming for when adjusting the set. You want as true and as faithful a representation of the source image as possible. Sometimes the source image is good, sometimes it isn't; but does that mean that we shouldn't at least have the opportunity to see it accurately?

Once a TV is set up properly then the need to "be constantly tweaking" the settings goes away. It's only if the TV is adjusted badly that you'll need to ride the controls.

Very true I don't know about TV production, European or American, standards and a bow to your superior knowledge in the is area.

All I was doing was adding my comments to this thread and trying to be of some help to the OP.

The point I was making about Tweaking" was that some people get so wrapped up in picture and sound adjustments that they spend most of their time doing this instead of sitting back and enjoying their TV.

As I said, if you've a system costing thousands and thousands of pounds then yes, you should get it calibrated properly but, like me and many others, you've a system that's sitting in the living room all you want it a picture you're happy with which I think the OP is after.

I'm happy with results I got using the DVD's I mentioned and find no need to "Ride the buttons" as you say much preferring to sit an be entertained.

Chris Frost · 27/07/09 - 00:21

Dave48 wrote: »

Very true I don't know about TV production, European or American, standards and a bow to your superior knowledge in the is area.

All I was doing was adding my comments to this thread and trying to be of some help to the OP.

The point I was making about Tweaking" was that some people get so wrapped up in picture and sound adjustments that they spend most of their time doing this instead of sitting back and enjoying their TV.

As I said, if you've a system costing thousands and thousands of pounds then yes, you should get it calibrated properly but, like me and many others, you've a system that's sitting in the living room all you want it a picture you're happy with which I think the OP is after.

I'm happy with results I got using the DVD's I mentioned and find no need to "Ride the buttons" as you say much preferring to sit an be entertained.

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Just to be clear, I never suggested the OP spend anything more than £15...

You can learn this too. It isn't difficult. It isn't expensive. ....It'll cost you under £15

I certainly wouldn't rule out a pro calibration though. Budget gear often shows the biggest positive result from calibration! This is because higher-end gear is closer to correct. Budget gear is more likely to be poorly set up from the factory. However, a pro calibration wasn't what I suggested for the OP.

I accept your point about folk tweaking. My view is that tweakers will tweak - it's in their nature to fiddle whether the TV is calibrated or not. However, I still stand by the opinion that if a display (or sound system) is set up to work correctly then there is none (or at least very little) need to fiddle at all.

The DVD you mentioned only works on Blu-ray according to Fatwaz. It might not be an appropriate choice for the OP. The PAL DVE disc though works with any standard DVD or BR or HD-DVD drive. I stand by the recommendation of that disc. IMO it is excellent value and a worthwhile investment whether the TV is a supermarket special or a top-of-the-line brand. It's also an excellent tool for sound set up too.

Fatwaz · 27/07/09 - 07:06

if it looked "blue" out of the box its probably in cool mode which has far too much blue in the picture.something like cinema/warm are what youre looking for.these are normally the nearest settings to the industry standard though they are still off but set it to these or similar sounding modes then adjust brightness/contrast with some test patterns.

chris if i could just pick your brains?whats the best contrast test pattern as the dve one is really for crt's unless there is a new one on the bluray?i dont get any white clipping on mine no matter how high i put the contrast so ive just got it where there is no colour shift and its not too bright to hurt the eyes.

Dave48 · 27/07/09 - 13:44

Chris Frost wrote: »

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Just to be clear, I never suggested the OP spend anything more than £15...

I certainly wouldn't rule out a pro calibration though. Budget gear often shows the biggest positive result from calibration! This is because higher-end gear is closer to correct. Budget gear is more likely to be poorly set up from the factory. However, a pro calibration wasn't what I suggested for the OP.

First "Cheapskates" then "Budget Gear".....seems I'm mixing with the elite here.....don't think I'll bother.

Chris Frost · 27/07/09 - 14:49

Dave48 wrote: »

First "Cheapskates" then "Budget Gear".....seems I'm mixing with the elite here.....don't think I'll bother.

Oh FGS...:rolleyes: What phrase would you prefer then? "Entry level", "Not really expensive", "Affordable" ... I mean, does it really matter? This is a discussion forum. We're not writing reference manuals here, just trying to help out those who ask for advice.

Chris Frost · 27/07/09 - 15:18

Fatwaz wrote: »

if it looked "blue" out of the box its probably in cool mode which has far too much blue in the picture.something like cinema/warm are what youre looking for.these are normally the nearest settings to the industry standard though they are still off but set it to these or similar sounding modes then adjust brightness/contrast with some test patterns.

chris if i could just pick your brains?whats the best contrast test pattern as the dve one is really for crt's unless there is a new one on the bluray?i dont get any white clipping on mine no matter how high i put the contrast so ive just got it where there is no colour shift and its not too bright to hurt the eyes.

I find that direct view LCDs respond differently to contrast adjustments that plasma or CRT. Try tweaking brightness and see what it does to peak white.

The pattern I use most often is Reverse Grey Ramps (T12, Ch14). This one has 0-255 IRE dynamic range (PC dynamic) and then spot markers show the the standard video dynamic range which is 16-235 IRE. It's useful for checking which of a TVs options might crush white or prevent it from clipping like yours is doing.

For black and white points I also double check with Split Bars with Gray and DVD Pluge (T12 Ch7) and SMPTE RP133 (T13, Ch2).

Fatwaz · 27/07/09 - 16:12

thanks chris.the one i prefer is the SMPTE(the one with the 2 boxes just above black/white inside a full black/white box)which i can mess about with brightness and contrast at the same time without having to chop and change.

incidently its a panasonic plasma and after messing about with it im really happy and it looks superb:Dnext on the list im going to tackle the greyscale:eek:

Chris Frost · 27/07/09 - 21:12

Reverse grey ramps lets you see both the black and the white points on the same screen, check dynamic range (video vs pc) and look for colour shifts n the grey scale and obvious gamma shifts.... all from one test pattern.

Surprised the plasma won't go high enough to bleach out white. I've installed a fair few Panny plasmas and can't say I've ever noticed under-driven white to be a problem. What's the source?

Fatwaz · 28/07/09 - 12:24

i play it via a ps3.its just no matter how high i set contrast it never blends into the above white as supposed to so i've just set it so not to bright for the eyes and no colour shift.im happy with it but being anal at these things lol i want it to be where it should like the brightness.its a x10 and i will be tackling the greyscale via the service menu soon.the one thing i hate about panny plasmas is the lack of advanced user calibration controls!!even though the picture is great i know that if i can calibrate the greyscale then it will improve even more.would love to have it isf'd but of course considering the cost of the set its not worth it and i love to "have a mess around" as it were

Chris Frost · 28/07/09 - 14:30

What measuring gear will you be using for the calibration?

Fatwaz · 28/07/09 - 15:11

im looking at either the spyder2 pro or eyeone and probably use the freeware ColourHCFR

Chris Frost · 28/07/09 - 17:12

Yeah, that's OK. As long as you weren't thinking of doing it by eye. LOL

I use a Spyder myself but with the ColorFacts Pro software. The package with the software wasn't cheap (about 2000 Euro at the time) but it's fast and gives instant visual feedback which makes it easy to do the on-the-fly adjustments.

Once the TV is calibrated the thing that'll probably surprise you the most is the colour saturation.

You'll find you have the colour down lower than before, yet the way colours stand out in programs and on films will really astonish you. Calibration really helps make make the most of the subtle shading differences that are lost in a non-calibrated TV.

Fatwaz · 28/07/09 - 17:48

thats the aim:D

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Just got a kdl 40z4500 and wandered....

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