I still don't agree. I don't think Alice was ever that innocent; her first encounter with Grant had her swearing like a trouper, and when she allows him to stay in her room it's not done naively but with confidence she can control him. Even her interest in the comic suggests she wasn't a conventional sweet little girl. I wasn't at all surprised when she shot that guy; I wouldn't have trusted her with the gun. She's the one I'd have as the next Arby, not Wilson.
I can see your point about Alice, Brangdon. But I don't see how being a foul-mouthed child means they are capable killers. Most children her age know about most swear words like "tw*t" and "bitch", so it didn't surprise me when Alice said the former. That's what I love Utopia for - it portrays kids in a realistic light. On BBC and ITV dramas, kids tend to be watered down and too innocent for swearing. Nevertheless, Alice wasn't that foul-mouthed to begin with, especially compared to Grant (now he was one foul-mouthed punk :eek:). She only said "tw*t" a few times (which was suppose to be some sort of endearing nickname for Grant ) and probably one or two other swear words.
Regarding Alice's decision to allow Grant to stay in her room... my view on this matter was that she felt safe enough around Grant to allow him to stay in her room as she had got to know him earlier at school, and was looking forward to her next meeting with him. If Grant was a complete strange, it would've been a different story and Alice would've most probably screamed for her mum. I didn't see it as anything to do with control on Alice's part. That's my take at least.
Personally, I thought Alice was the most innocent party of the gang as she got involved as a direct consequence of Grant leaving the manuscript in her possession. Her parents were then killed because of this, which set her on a darker path, more so than Wilson. She then murdered the food executive as a result of her emotional trauma much like Wilson was on the edge of doing. I didn't see anything about Alice that suggested to me that she wasn't a sweet little girl. She was just messed up a bit, that's all.
I can't see Alice ever being a Network hitman in the future either. I see her as more of a Jessica Hyde-type character, who would work against the Network.
Now Wilson is a different story, because we saw his allegiances change to the Network, so the prospect of him becoming one of their lackeys would be a very realistic one IMO.
I don't think being a Network sympathiser would affect his willingness to kill. Nor do I think the death of his father would push him that way. He's just not that kind of person; he doesn't react to evil people by becoming evil, but by trying to be more good. (Admittedly in a rather devious and deceptive way.)
The thing about skinhead is that Wilson had been captured once, and it had led to his being tortured and blinded and nearly killed. He knew if he let the skinhead take control, that would happen to him again. Or to the others. Yet he still couldn't kill. I think of all the characters in the show, he was the one least likely to become a hitman.
BIB: You're probably right, but we'll never know for sure as Milner intervened and shot the skinhead dead. I don't think Wilson would've allowed himself to get murdered, because of his fear of shooting someone. Wilson has shown that he's willing to shoot someone to protect himself when he killed Lee. So I've no doubts he would've done the same with the skinhead. But I do wonder if the Wilson we saw in Episode 5-6 would've been more willing to shoot the skinhead rather than waiting so long. Like I said, we'll never know for sure.
I think the twist was necessary, and that it made the ending more satisfying, even as a one-off series. The answers to the questions of Mr Rabbit and the meaning of the comic, that we were given earlier, were false answers that needed to be over-turned.
I agree, it certainly did make the ending more satisfying from a entertainment aspect, but it was a unneccessary twist to throw in if Dennis Kelly's intention was to only do one series of "Utopia". Speaking as a writer myself... in my mind, the only reason you throw in a twist like that at the end is to tease a second series by further complicating the story. That's why I think it's a great ending. But it wouldn't be a very satisfying ending if the intention all along was to only do one series.
Though I think your first part (not referenced) is flawed in its failure to distinguish adequately between a killer and an assassin, I do think your proposal (referenced) is quite credible.
The organisation has shown its ability to manipulate people and with Mr Rabbit (Milner NOT Letan) at the helm that's hardly surprising. There is also an interesting juxtaposition between Arby and Wilson's respective journey.
Someone on here (sorry, no reference) has already drawn the parallels between Arby and Grant which is also quite interesting. Grant has so wanted to be loved but, with all the rejections, could well be questioning if anyone ever really has!
The fact we can all read so many different angles into the same plot just adds to the weight of opinion that Utopia was seriously good television!
Haha oh yeah, they do love their yellow on Utopia, don't they?
Glad you agree :cool:. Regarding my failed attempt to disgtinguish between a killer and assassin in my first paragraph, I would just trying to explain to Brangdon that Wilson was at least capable of killing like all the characters on the show.
But yes, I agree with most of your post. Well said, Calvin.
I agree, it certainly did make the ending more satisfying from a entertainment aspect, but it was a unneccessary twist to throw in if Dennis Kelly's intention was to only do one series of "Utopia". Speaking as a writer myself... in my mind, the only reason you throw in a twist like that at the end is to tease a second series by further complicating the story. That's why I think it's a great ending. But it wouldn't be a very satisfying ending if the intention all along was to only do one series.
I can't imagine the choice / type of (open) ending was Dennis Kelly's sole decision. Utopia would have been a risky, costly show for Kudos to bring to the screen, so I'd imagine they'd be very keen to tease the possibility of a continuation so that we keep up the pressure on C4
I agree with your argument whole heartedly, TK. The series ended on a cliffhanger - fact.
Sorry Gatehouse. My conspiracy head is beginning to think you've been succumbed to Barrie Williams' way of thinking... or been brutally murdered by same who is now impersonating you!:eek::eek::eek:
LOL :D. Barrie is our very own Janus on DS .
And I'm glad you agree with me once again, Calvin :cool:. We seem to be the only two with this view at the moment .
I can't imagine the choice / type of (open) ending was Dennis Kelly's sole decision. Utopia would have been a risky, costly show for Kudos to bring to the screen, so I'd imagine they'd be very keen to tease the possibility of a continuation so that we keep up the pressure on C4
True. I would agree with that, dapa .
So there has been any word of Series 2 on twitter then? Any interesting chatter?
I have to agree! To me the ending was ideal for a second series, but if they decided not to go there, it was a perfectly good ending even though the baddies won!
I would imagine though the writer would've hoped for a second series. There were plently of 'what happens next' with many of the characters to get another series out. But I do think it would've come down to popularity, whether another series was agreed
I don't believe that all writers like to end films/TV shows with a clear cut happy ending, as it's much more edgy without them!
Well I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me! Everyone else-try reading some books! Away from TV & movie land, there are plenty of unhappy endings. It's conclusive enough but retaining flexibility. They did not know whether it was going to get a second series when they shot it, so of course it had to be that way. And that is a fact
Sorry Gatehouse, I agree with Barrie Williams' whole heartedly, you've succumbed to being brutally murdered by someone who is now impersonating you!.
Sorry I couldn't resist Calvin.
I've noticed the use of 'unused' clips in the opening sequences as well, but there is nothing unusual in this as the editors will just use any shots that they have sitting around, and if they can use something that hasn't been used before, then all the better.
That's promising, looks like it will happen. Hope so, I think I'm willing to risk it not being as good out of the hope that it will. If it's rubbish, I can just not watch it, after all!
Well I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me! Everyone else-try reading some books! Away from TV & movie land, there are plenty of unhappy endings. It's conclusive enough but retaining flexibility. They did not know whether it was going to get a second series when they shot it, so of course it had to be that way. And that is a fact
No one's saying unhappy endings don't happen in fiction, we're just merely saying that the specific way the Utopia ending was written and the tone felt very much like a cliffhanger. Indeed, they did not know whether they will get a second series, but that has never stopped writers in the past from throwing in cliffhangers to tease a second series. I agree the ending was conclusive to an extent with the gang returning to their lives, but the final scene was indeed written as a cliffhanger in my view.
But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree .
If only we could contact Dennis Kelly and ask him . I heard he's not on twitter.
By the way, I didn't get the chance to say this when the final episode aired, but I've enjoyed all your theories about the show, so I will be glad to read more of them when the second series (fingers crossed) rolls around . You certainly made this thread all the more entertaining :cool:. I enjoyed discussing our different theories about the show .
One question: was a part of you disappointed that the show didn't go in a paranormal direction or have more of a hardcore sci-fi edge? I remember at the beginning, a lot of people were speculating that Mr Rabbit was literally the devil as depicted in the Utopia graphic novel - and some viewers were disappointed when it emerged that it had no paranormal elements at all. And I remember some of your theories had a paranormal bent to it as well.
No one's saying unhappy endings don't happen in fiction, we're just merely saying that the specific way the Utopia ending was written and the tone felt very much like a cliffhanger. Indeed, they did not know whether they will get a second series, but that has never stopped writers in the past from throwing in cliffhangers to tease a second series. I agree the ending was conclusive to an extent with the gang returning to their lives, but the final scene was indeed written as a cliffhanger in my view.
But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree .
If only we could contact Dennis Kelly and ask him . I heard he's not on twitter.
By the way, I didn't get the chance to say this when the final episode aired, but I've enjoyed all your theories about the show, so I will be glad to read more of them when the second series (fingers crossed) rolls around . You certainly made this thread all the more entertaining :cool:. I enjoyed discussing our different theories about the show .
One question: was a part of you disappointed that the show didn't go in a paranormal direction or have more of a hardcore sci-fi edge? I remember at the beginning, a lot of people were speculating that Mr Rabbit was literally the devil as depicted in the Utopia graphic novel - and some viewers were disappointed when it emerged that it had no paranormal elements at all. And I remember some of your theories had a paranormal bent to it as well.
Thanks, that's kind of you to say. Your theories have been great to read, too.
I wasn't disappointed, no. For me I think all the supernatural elements were more stylistic-such as Assistant's Satanic looking beard. There was a lot of deliberate hinting at things so that the viewer made the associations without it having a sci-fi or supernatural actuality. Same goes with all of our little "Wonderland" clues! Although as we've said before, there's room for that to be extended if there is a second series...(mummy Rabbit).
There were a lot of Bladerunner comparisons from me, especially with regard to Jessica's emotions and movements. But as I said at the time, that was more to do with the trauma she had been through leading to a lack of humanity and a longing for it. She's a lot more human by the end of the series-she has a genuine bond with Grant. In a way that (very slight!) softening of her leads to her capture-against all her most ingrained instincts and everything she's experienced, she makes the mistake of trusting Milner (under pressure from the group).
That said of course, a sterilisation of humanity and the messing around with genomes and disease means that this was kinda a science fiction show. It looks at a dystopian future for humanity and a bit like Black Mirror, I consider Utopia to be set very slightly in the future-whereas Black Mirror is maybe 10-15 years from now, Utopia is perhaps 2-4 years in the future. A lot of the great sci-fi from it's golden age in the mid 20th century explored themes of humanities future, after all. I'm thinking of things like Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 for one.
Does this make 1984 and Brave New World science fiction?!?
Sorry Gatehouse, I agree with Barrie Williams' whole heartedly, you've succumbed to being brutally murdered by someone who is now impersonating you!.>>
Sorry I couldn't resist Calvin.
Well, Barrie. For one who harps on about the lack of originality you've really done yourself no favours here
And is my paranoia getting to me when you make your reappearance straight after Gatehouse. Just an observation ;):D
I can see your point about Alice, Brangdon. But I don't see how being a foul-mouthed child means they are capable killers.
Were you surprised when she killed?
Personally, I thought Alice was the most innocent party of the gang as she got involved as a direct consequence of Grant leaving the manuscript in her possession.
I don't see that as being much different to Ian and Wilson getting involved because they also liked the comic. Becky less so because she had an agenda and more prior knowledge of Beals etc. Grant was deceitful and a thief.
I can't see Alice ever being a Network hitman in the future either.
I agree she's unlikely to work for the Network, given they killed her mum.
BIB: You're probably right, but we'll never know for sure as Milner intervened and shot the skinhead dead.
I don't accept that, because he had plenty of time to shoot if he was going to. He couldn't, any more than he could shoot Jessica. When it came to the crunch, he just dithered until something else took control from him. He's normally pretty decisive. For example, dislocating his own thumb to escape from the handcuffs, or stabbing himself in the stomach. He's willing to hurt himself to get stuff done, which throws into contrast his hesitation about hurting others.
Wilson has shown that he's willing to shoot someone to protect himself when he killed Lee. So I've no doubts he would've done the same with the skinhead.
Lee is obviously the sticking point. It doesn't carry much weight with me, because he was blinded. There's big difference between shooting blindly, in panic, knowing you might hit someone, and deliberately and coldly aiming to kill them. Wilson I see as being more like Dugdale, who knew he had to act to stop his ex-girlfriend, but didn't intend to kill her.
I was not surprised when Alice killed, and I was not surprised when Wilson failed to kill.
But it wouldn't be a very satisfying ending if the intention all along was to only do one series.
OK, I we disagree here. I felt the ending was more satisfying even for a single series.
Personally, I don't now have a strong desire to see a second series. I'd be equally happy to see a new, unrelated work by the same team.
I had already decided the Network's plan was wrong, and knowing Milner was behind it made me even more against it. I find it hard to see her altruistically striving to prevent war and billions of deaths (by prevent billions from being born at all). Why would she care? Surely she keeps that rock on her desk to remind her that none of it would matter anyway? Especially since it took so many decades to track Jessica down that Milner will be too old to benefit.
Well, Barrie. For one who harps on about the lack of originality you've really done yourself no favours here
And is my paranoia getting to me when you make your reappearance straight after Gatehouse. Just an observation ;):D
Now there's only one person going to get offended by that. I have better things to do than argue with my own twisted alter-ego on forum's..I may be mad, but I'm not that crazy!
I had already decided the Network's plan was wrong, and knowing Milner was behind it made me even more against it. I find it hard to see her altruistically striving to prevent war and billions of deaths (by prevent billions from being born at all). Why would she care? Surely she keeps that rock on her desk to remind her that none of it would matter anyway? Especially since it took so many decades to track Jessica down that Milner will be too old to benefit.
I suppose all lunatics with extreme "solutions" think that they are doing the right thing. Plus there's a selfish element to all this-those in the circle of power would obviously be amongst the 5-10% that remain fertile, along with controlling wealth, power, etc.
I thought that rock also symbolised that she'd been affiliated to the same school of thought that "trained" Arby and Jessica...as soon as Jessica saw it she knew Milner was not entirely what she claimed to be. The philosophy of the rock would be entirely on-message with The Network's scheme: humanity in the short term-and individual suffering-is of no significance relative to it's progress over generations. Bit of a Masonic feel too in that the depopulation could be a step up the ladder of "progress".
Not totally surprised as she was in a fragile state of mind at the time (and anything can happen in that state), but I didn't think she would actually shoot him dead.
I don't see that as being much different to Ian and Wilson getting involved because they also liked the comic. Becky less so because she had an agenda and more prior knowledge of Beals etc. Grant was deceitful and a thief.
True, but what I meant was Alice wasn't a member of the Utopia forum like the others nor did she know of the graphic novel's existence - she got indirectly involved in the story as a result of meeting Grant. Grant, Becky, Ian and Wilson all got directly involved via the forum when they agreed to meet with Bejan to read Utopia Part 2 and therefore put them on the Network's radar.
But anyway, I still think Alice was just a normal, innocent girl. There's nothing about her that suggested otherwise.
Lee is obviously the sticking point. It doesn't carry much weight with me, because he was blinded. There's big difference between shooting blindly, in panic, knowing you might hit someone, and deliberately and coldly aiming to kill them. Wilson I see as being more like Dugdale, who knew he had to act to stop his ex-girlfriend, but didn't intend to kill her.
You know what, I agree with you here. But I just wonder what the Wilson from Episode 6 would've done. Would he have shot the skinhead before Milner's intervention or not? I know he hestitated to shoot Jessica in Episode 6, but I still think it was a different situation as Jessica was his friend/ally and the skinhead was a complete stranger to him.
OK, I we disagree here. I felt the ending was more satisfying even for a single series.
Fair enough, I can see why you and others would have found that a satisfying ending for a single series. But from my personal of view, I don't think it totally works if you look at it like that. In my mind, the final scene was basically the writers screaming, "GIVE US A SECOND SERIES, PLEASE!"
But as I said, I can understand your view on this matter.
Personally, I don't now have a strong desire to see a second series. I'd be equally happy to see a new, unrelated work by the same team.
Oh yeah, I would definitely love to see another similar type of show from the same team. Kudos Film and Television have form for making good shows, so let's hope they have a few more like "Utopia" lined up. Something less conspiracy-based and a bit more sci-fi would do me fine :cool:.
I'd rather see a second series of "Utopia" AND a new show from the same team - yes, I'm quite greedy like that .
Oh yeah, I would definitely love to see another similar type of show from the same team. Kudos Film and Television have form for making good shows, so let's hope they have a few more like "Utopia" lined up. Something less conspiracy-based and a bit more sci-fi would do me fine :cool:.
I'd rather see a second series of "Utopia" AND a new show from the same team - yes, I'm quite greedy like that .
This is true. In drama, as in reading books, I've often preferred US-based stories. Utopia is the first thriller-style drama I've seen that makes the UK look so beautiful and exciting.
Even small details like the title music and score effects are very different, yet fitting. And... has a recent drama ever used colour grading, with bias on a single colour (yellow) to such a pleasing effect? The nearest I can think of is the use of yellow in The Simpsons, which was also designed to make the show stand out.
How far could they safely take this conspiracy in to the realm of sci-fi? Up to the level of The X-Files, perhaps?
is my paranoia getting to me when you make your reappearance straight after Gatehouse. Just an observation ;):D
Yes it is.
I only post about every 24 hours or so because I am busy making programmes of my own while you, TK Mazin and Gatehouse live in your own alternative utopian universe and have time to argue and discuss these things amongst yourselves on what seems to be an hourly basis finding and discussing fantastical and unbelievable theories which I doubt even the writers had ever considered!
I just watched the whole series again, still don't have a clue wtf was going on. Glossy nonsense, haven't seen anything this pretentiously bad since The Shadow Line. The music was the only decent part of this drivel.
Comments
I can see your point about Alice, Brangdon. But I don't see how being a foul-mouthed child means they are capable killers. Most children her age know about most swear words like "tw*t" and "bitch", so it didn't surprise me when Alice said the former. That's what I love Utopia for - it portrays kids in a realistic light. On BBC and ITV dramas, kids tend to be watered down and too innocent for swearing. Nevertheless, Alice wasn't that foul-mouthed to begin with, especially compared to Grant (now he was one foul-mouthed punk :eek:). She only said "tw*t" a few times (which was suppose to be some sort of endearing nickname for Grant
Regarding Alice's decision to allow Grant to stay in her room... my view on this matter was that she felt safe enough around Grant to allow him to stay in her room as she had got to know him earlier at school, and was looking forward to her next meeting with him. If Grant was a complete strange, it would've been a different story and Alice would've most probably screamed for her mum. I didn't see it as anything to do with control on Alice's part. That's my take at least.
Personally, I thought Alice was the most innocent party of the gang as she got involved as a direct consequence of Grant leaving the manuscript in her possession. Her parents were then killed because of this, which set her on a darker path, more so than Wilson. She then murdered the food executive as a result of her emotional trauma much like Wilson was on the edge of doing. I didn't see anything about Alice that suggested to me that she wasn't a sweet little girl. She was just messed up a bit, that's all.
I can't see Alice ever being a Network hitman in the future either. I see her as more of a Jessica Hyde-type character, who would work against the Network.
Now Wilson is a different story, because we saw his allegiances change to the Network, so the prospect of him becoming one of their lackeys would be a very realistic one IMO.
BIB: You're probably right, but we'll never know for sure as Milner intervened and shot the skinhead dead. I don't think Wilson would've allowed himself to get murdered, because of his fear of shooting someone. Wilson has shown that he's willing to shoot someone to protect himself when he killed Lee. So I've no doubts he would've done the same with the skinhead. But I do wonder if the Wilson we saw in Episode 5-6 would've been more willing to shoot the skinhead rather than waiting so long. Like I said, we'll never know for sure.
I agree, it certainly did make the ending more satisfying from a entertainment aspect, but it was a unneccessary twist to throw in if Dennis Kelly's intention was to only do one series of "Utopia". Speaking as a writer myself... in my mind, the only reason you throw in a twist like that at the end is to tease a second series by further complicating the story. That's why I think it's a great ending. But it wouldn't be a very satisfying ending if the intention all along was to only do one series.
Haha oh yeah, they do love their yellow on Utopia, don't they?
Glad you agree :cool:. Regarding my failed attempt to disgtinguish between a killer and assassin in my first paragraph, I would just trying to explain to Brangdon that Wilson was at least capable of killing like all the characters on the show.
But yes, I agree with most of your post. Well said, Calvin.
Certainly was great television!
I can't imagine the choice / type of (open) ending was Dennis Kelly's sole decision. Utopia would have been a risky, costly show for Kudos to bring to the screen, so I'd imagine they'd be very keen to tease the possibility of a continuation so that we keep up the pressure on C4
LOL
And I'm glad you agree with me once again, Calvin
True. I would agree with that, dapa
So there has been any word of Series 2 on twitter then? Any interesting chatter?
Well I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me! Everyone else-try reading some books! Away from TV & movie land, there are plenty of unhappy endings. It's conclusive enough but retaining flexibility. They did not know whether it was going to get a second series when they shot it, so of course it had to be that way. And that is a fact
I've said that this series was an influence on Utopia-in terms of darkness, feel, soundtrack etc, I hope people see what I mean!
Sorry I couldn't resist Calvin.
I've noticed the use of 'unused' clips in the opening sequences as well, but there is nothing unusual in this as the editors will just use any shots that they have sitting around, and if they can use something that hasn't been used before, then all the better.
This is the most intriguing suggestion so far...
https://twitter.com/DramaOn4/status/304009130643951616
No one's saying unhappy endings don't happen in fiction, we're just merely saying that the specific way the Utopia ending was written and the tone felt very much like a cliffhanger. Indeed, they did not know whether they will get a second series, but that has never stopped writers in the past from throwing in cliffhangers to tease a second series. I agree the ending was conclusive to an extent with the gang returning to their lives, but the final scene was indeed written as a cliffhanger in my view.
But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
If only we could contact Dennis Kelly and ask him
By the way, I didn't get the chance to say this when the final episode aired, but I've enjoyed all your theories about the show, so I will be glad to read more of them when the second series (fingers crossed) rolls around
One question: was a part of you disappointed that the show didn't go in a paranormal direction or have more of a hardcore sci-fi edge? I remember at the beginning, a lot of people were speculating that Mr Rabbit was literally the devil as depicted in the Utopia graphic novel - and some viewers were disappointed when it emerged that it had no paranormal elements at all. And I remember some of your theories had a paranormal bent to it as well.
Ah, thanks. Fingers crossed :cool:.
Thanks, that's kind of you to say. Your theories have been great to read, too.
I wasn't disappointed, no. For me I think all the supernatural elements were more stylistic-such as Assistant's Satanic looking beard. There was a lot of deliberate hinting at things so that the viewer made the associations without it having a sci-fi or supernatural actuality. Same goes with all of our little "Wonderland" clues! Although as we've said before, there's room for that to be extended if there is a second series...(mummy Rabbit).
There were a lot of Bladerunner comparisons from me, especially with regard to Jessica's emotions and movements. But as I said at the time, that was more to do with the trauma she had been through leading to a lack of humanity and a longing for it. She's a lot more human by the end of the series-she has a genuine bond with Grant. In a way that (very slight!) softening of her leads to her capture-against all her most ingrained instincts and everything she's experienced, she makes the mistake of trusting Milner (under pressure from the group).
Does this make 1984 and Brave New World science fiction?!?
Well, Barrie. For one who harps on about the lack of originality you've really done yourself no favours here
And is my paranoia getting to me when you make your reappearance straight after Gatehouse. Just an observation
I don't see that as being much different to Ian and Wilson getting involved because they also liked the comic. Becky less so because she had an agenda and more prior knowledge of Beals etc. Grant was deceitful and a thief.
I agree she's unlikely to work for the Network, given they killed her mum.
I don't accept that, because he had plenty of time to shoot if he was going to. He couldn't, any more than he could shoot Jessica. When it came to the crunch, he just dithered until something else took control from him. He's normally pretty decisive. For example, dislocating his own thumb to escape from the handcuffs, or stabbing himself in the stomach. He's willing to hurt himself to get stuff done, which throws into contrast his hesitation about hurting others.
Lee is obviously the sticking point. It doesn't carry much weight with me, because he was blinded. There's big difference between shooting blindly, in panic, knowing you might hit someone, and deliberately and coldly aiming to kill them. Wilson I see as being more like Dugdale, who knew he had to act to stop his ex-girlfriend, but didn't intend to kill her.
I was not surprised when Alice killed, and I was not surprised when Wilson failed to kill.
OK, I we disagree here. I felt the ending was more satisfying even for a single series.
Personally, I don't now have a strong desire to see a second series. I'd be equally happy to see a new, unrelated work by the same team.
I had already decided the Network's plan was wrong, and knowing Milner was behind it made me even more against it. I find it hard to see her altruistically striving to prevent war and billions of deaths (by prevent billions from being born at all). Why would she care? Surely she keeps that rock on her desk to remind her that none of it would matter anyway? Especially since it took so many decades to track Jessica down that Milner will be too old to benefit.
Now there's only one person going to get offended by that. I have better things to do than argue with my own twisted alter-ego on forum's..I may be mad, but I'm not that crazy!
Not that it made him a coldhearted killer-adrenaline and desperation got the job done there.
I suppose all lunatics with extreme "solutions" think that they are doing the right thing. Plus there's a selfish element to all this-those in the circle of power would obviously be amongst the 5-10% that remain fertile, along with controlling wealth, power, etc.
I thought that rock also symbolised that she'd been affiliated to the same school of thought that "trained" Arby and Jessica...as soon as Jessica saw it she knew Milner was not entirely what she claimed to be. The philosophy of the rock would be entirely on-message with The Network's scheme: humanity in the short term-and individual suffering-is of no significance relative to it's progress over generations. Bit of a Masonic feel too in that the depopulation could be a step up the ladder of "progress".
Not totally surprised as she was in a fragile state of mind at the time (and anything can happen in that state), but I didn't think she would actually shoot him dead.
True, but what I meant was Alice wasn't a member of the Utopia forum like the others nor did she know of the graphic novel's existence - she got indirectly involved in the story as a result of meeting Grant. Grant, Becky, Ian and Wilson all got directly involved via the forum when they agreed to meet with Bejan to read Utopia Part 2 and therefore put them on the Network's radar.
But anyway, I still think Alice was just a normal, innocent girl. There's nothing about her that suggested otherwise.
You know what, I agree with you here. But I just wonder what the Wilson from Episode 6 would've done. Would he have shot the skinhead before Milner's intervention or not? I know he hestitated to shoot Jessica in Episode 6, but I still think it was a different situation as Jessica was his friend/ally and the skinhead was a complete stranger to him.
But as I said, I can understand your view on this matter.
Oh yeah, I would definitely love to see another similar type of show from the same team. Kudos Film and Television have form for making good shows, so let's hope they have a few more like "Utopia" lined up. Something less conspiracy-based and a bit more sci-fi would do me fine :cool:.
I'd rather see a second series of "Utopia" AND a new show from the same team - yes, I'm quite greedy like that
Never seen that, class!!!:D
This is true. In drama, as in reading books, I've often preferred US-based stories. Utopia is the first thriller-style drama I've seen that makes the UK look so beautiful and exciting.
Even small details like the title music and score effects are very different, yet fitting. And... has a recent drama ever used colour grading, with bias on a single colour (yellow) to such a pleasing effect? The nearest I can think of is the use of yellow in The Simpsons, which was also designed to make the show stand out.
How far could they safely take this conspiracy in to the realm of sci-fi? Up to the level of The X-Files, perhaps?
Yes it is.
I only post about every 24 hours or so because I am busy making programmes of my own while you, TK Mazin and Gatehouse live in your own alternative utopian universe and have time to argue and discuss these things amongst yourselves on what seems to be an hourly basis finding and discussing fantastical and unbelievable theories which I doubt even the writers had ever considered!