That's the spirit! Why should the Labour Party have to degrade itself just to beg for votes from all those unwashed, sweaty proles?
Political party's should not move up and down the political spectrum, the voters should. All that's happening is we are having a realignment of politics in the UK so the right people are in the right party's.
BNP / UKIP / Tory / Orange Liberals / SDP & New Labour / Green's , Labour / Communist
The politicians just need to move to the party that has the principles they really believe in.
The idea of future Tory victories concerns me slightly more than a hell of a lot, but it's about time that Labour actually spoke for Labour beliefs, and gave this country an alternative. It has taken me a while to decide what I want from the Labour party, but it definitely has to be about belief in what it is saying, rather than saying what it thinks will win votes.
We need something more like the SNP this side of the border... can Corbyn take Labour in that direction? Are the electorate willing to embrace such a party? Who knows! It could be very interesting though... and the more the Tory voters ridicule the situation, the better it looks.
Until you realise that a deciding factor in the general election was the fear that SNP would have formed a coalition with Labour.
If this happens, there cancels my Labour and Unite membership.
The state doesn't have the answer for everything, yet Corbyn and his contingent do. This is actually has me quite anxious and turns my stomach. The same feeling I felt May 7th when it was announced Labour would suffer such humiliating and crippling losses.
Corbyn will be the Michael Foot or Neil Hancock of the 20 teens. The only way Labour will get in power in 2020 is with a Female as leader and strong fiscal credibility. I could just about stomach Burnham, Corbyn definitely not. What concerns me is that the unions are secretly trying to fix the vote so Corbyn gets in, much the same as they did with Ed in 2010.
This appears to me as desparate, the last thing we need quite frankly.
The idea of future Tory victories concerns me slightly more than a hell of a lot, but it's about time that Labour actually spoke for Labour beliefs, and gave this country an alternative. It has taken me a while to decide what I want from the Labour party, but it definitely has to be about belief in what it is saying, rather than saying what it thinks will win votes.
We need something more like the SNP this side of the border... can Corbyn take Labour in that direction? Are the electorate willing to embrace such a party? Who knows! It could be very interesting though... and the more the Tory voters ridicule the situation, the better it looks.
100% AGREE, let the Tories keep sneering and jeering, I would rather see them in power for the rest of my life than to EVER become one of them, perhaps a true left of centre party might struggle to win an election, but when there millions of people in this country who don't vote because they believe that "Labour or Tory they are both the same and nothing ever changes" no one can predict what will happen if the people actually have a real choice rather than a choice between 2 different versions of the same party.
Although seeing as the story is in the Torygraph I would take it with a skip full of salt,
Well, as a lifelong Labour supporter and voter, I could never vote for a Labour Party led by such a person who would put forward such left-wing policies.
And I suspect I would not be alone in that.
Sometimes, I just despair at Labour.
Well as a life long Labour supporter I would be truly delighted to vote for such a leader it's way past time we had a Labour party closer to the party that they were originally, a party that supports the working class rather than despises them,
If you want a Tory lite party you might as well vote for Tory full strength.
Cheers for that. It would be delicious if after the (one party state loving) Tory supporters who thought it was a 'splendid jape' to vote for Corbyn in the belief that it will make Labour unelectable allowing the beloved leader and 'the party' to rule indefinitely (what with them being such lovers of democracy n all that) that Jezzer went on to become leader and then Labour won by a landslide at the next election.,
Until you realise that a deciding factor in the general election was the fear that SNP would have formed a coalition with Labour.
I'm more than aware of that, but I'm not sure that part of Labour's desires would be Scottish independence, so I think we can forget that part of the comparison.
Cheers for that. It would be delicious if after the (one party state loving) Tory supporters who thought it was a 'splendid jape' to vote for Corbyn in the belief that it will make Labour unelectable allowing the beloved leader and 'the party' to rule indefinitely (what with them being such lovers of democracy n all that) that Jezzer went on to become leader and then Labour won by a landslide at the next election.,
That would be SO sweet.
The last Left wing leader of Labour was Michael Foot remind me of how well that worked out for them ?
Labour only became electable by a move to Right , Brown who was seen as Left of Blair lost seats and Milibands move slightly left of Brown lost them even more
Labour tried with Miliband, and failed (I won't mention Brown as he was as much of a causal factor in Labour's election failure as any of his policies).
Now unless the electorate have performed a massive about-turn, left-wing socialist policies, however well-principled and however well-articulated, don't seem to go down well with the electorate. And these days, as Miliband found out, the merest hint of a left-wing policy, thought or connection leads to much negative reporting which seems to resonate (even if untrue or exaggerated).
I think Corbyn will take no hostage. He will be a formidable force for Cameron to deal with and will freshen up the Labour Party - at least for the short term. It will feel like a genuine alternative to what we've had in this country for two decades, but, over time, as his viewpoints and socialist agenda come to the fore, people will, I think turn against him. He is pro-immigration, a sympathiser to IS as (according to himself on Question Time) Britain is primarily to blame for it.
He might be the best person for Labour at this moment in time, not necessarily to get it elected in 2020, but to restore credibilty back to the Labour Party by giving it its own identity again. Who knows, he could end up being the Tories' Nemesis.
Don't believe it, this is just the media putting a heat cycle through a pretty luck warm leadership contest. He'll get crushed once the party closes rank. The real story is Liz Kendall's implosion.
Well as a life long Labour supporter I would be truly delighted to vote for such a leader it's way past time we had a Labour party closer to the party that they were originally, a party that supports the working class rather than despises them,
Firstly, that sounds very similar to the kinnock quote after Miliband was elected "We've got our party back". And just look what "our party" managed to do. they could not win an election when up against a Tory-led coalition that had instigated public service cuts (and what in some cases appeared to be cuts and changes for ideological reasons only), rolling back of the state, public service wage freezes, and other austerity measures, and when further ideological changes to the welfare state, benefits and union power had been widely touted in the Tory Manifesto. That in itself says much. McCluskey et al got the Labour Party that they wanted, and look what good it did them.
Importantly though, could you tell me how such a party that you want would go about "supporting the working class" when they have no power, no influence and no prospect of achieving that power and influence?
If you want a Tory lite party you might as well vote for Tory full strength.
I could never vote Tory. But you can take a few "tory-lite" policies (which also resonate with the wider electorate) and they can be mixed with a number of centrist policies, a number of centre-left policies, a number of green/ecological policies to give you a party that not only supports the working class, but also supports the middle (the "squeezed middle") as well as entrepreneurship (especially those people who are small business owners and sole traders) and also is attractive to voters who were Labour but swapped to Tory, as well as voters who are on the left of the Tory principles.
Socialism and caring about the working class is not an exclusive preserve of the left. It can work in the centre (as Blair proved). And as I keep on saying, what is the good of having beliefs if you are never in a position to change things. You fist need the power and influence, then you can make a start. otherwise, you are reduced to a socialist rump that talks the talk but is miles away from able the walk the walk.
Don't believe it, this is just the media putting a heat cycle through a pretty luck warm leadership contest. He'll get crushed once the party closes rank. The real story is Liz Kendall's implosion.
Liz Kendall would, in the long term, be far worse for Labour than Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is sincere in what he says because he is driven by passion. Kendall gives soundbites by saying what SHE thinks people want to hear - and she has a condascending tone too.
Labour tried with Miliband, and failed (I won't mention Brown as he was as much of a causal factor in Labour's election failure as any of his policies).
Now unless the electorate have performed a massive about-turn, left-wing socialist policies, however well-principled and however well-articulated, don't seem to go down well with the electorate. And these days, as Miliband found out, the merest hint of a left-wing policy, thought or connection leads to much negative reporting which seems to resonate (even if untrue or exaggerated).
youre dealing with dogma just like the greens
its the whole lefty moral superiority paradigm we care for the sick poor disabled etc
I said it in another thread. The Tories are known for picking dud leaders, Major led them to the greatest defeat in UK politics history, Hague, IDS and Howard all flopped. Even the mighty Cameron couldn't win over Brown and only managed a 12 seat majority over Miliband.
So I don't really think their opinions of how bad Corbyn will be are worth taking seriously. they have a seriously bad record.
Corbyn for what its worth already seems to have brought back many lost Labour supporters. So what ever he is doing is working.
And its arrogance like this that will make people vote Corbyn just out of protest to spite the evil Tories.
If he ends up PM it would be delicious.
Its not arrogance, it simple truth. Miliband was too far to the left get elected in most English marginals. Corbyn who is far left bordering on extreme left, is completely unelectable. He might win Scottish seats, but Labour would be wiped out in most of the Midlands and Southern England.
Its not arrogance, it simple truth. Miliband was too far to the left get elected in most English marginals. Corbyn who is far left bordering on extreme left, is completely unelectable. He might win Scottish seats, but Labour would be wiped out in most of the Midlands and Southern England.
It is arrogance and its not the simple truth either. Its your opinion.
Labour's 2015 manifesto was more to the centre than any of the previous 3. It was actually the main reason they didn't get elected as they were seen as just a B grade Tory party. So Labour supporters either all jumped ship to the SNP, Greens, some oddly even UKIP - I doubt they knew they were voting for in this instance. Rather than turning up to vote for Labour.
You are completely overlooking why Labour supporters, it is estimated 3 million of them didn't even vote so lets also factor in those who did and opted for the other parties, ditched Labour in May. It wasn't because they were too Left, it was because they were looking Centre Right on many policies. In many peoples words ''just another Tory party'. People wanted something different. They didn't see it with Labour.
It is arrogance and its not the simple truth either. Its your opinion.
Labour's 2015 manifesto was more to the centre than any of the previous 3. It was actually the main reason they didn't get elected as they were seen as just a B grade Tory party. So Labour supporters either all jumped ship to the SNP, Greens, some oddly even UKIP - I doubt they knew they were voting for in this instance. Rather than turning up to vote for Labour.
You are completely overlooking why Labour supporters, it is estimated 3 million of them didn't even vote so lets also factor in those who did and opted for the other parties, ditched Labour in May. It wasn't because they were too Left, it was because they were looking Centre Right on many policies. In many peoples words ''just another Tory party'. People wanted something different. They didn't see it with Labour.
All this and don't forget the key and most important reason for the Tories winning was not all down to Labour. It was the Lib Dem vote collapsing in England. The Tories took 20 English seats from the Lib Dems because it was the Lib Dems who took the blame for the last five years of Tory government.
Who will take the blame in 2020 for the next five years? they have no Lib Dems to shield them anymore.
It is arrogance and its not the simple truth either. Its your opinion.
Labour's 2015 manifesto was more to the centre than any of the previous 3. It was actually the main reason they didn't get elected as they were seen as just a B grade Tory party. So Labour supporters either all jumped ship to the SNP, Greens, some oddly even UKIP - I doubt they knew they were voting for in this instance. Rather than turning up to vote for Labour.
You are completely overlooking why Labour supporters, it is estimated 3 million of them didn't even vote so lets also factor in those who did and opted for the other parties, ditched Labour in May. It wasn't because they were too Left, it was because they were looking Centre Right on many policies. In many peoples words ''just another Tory party'. People wanted something different. They didn't see it with Labour.
Corbyn is a left wing extremist. Left wing extremists dont win elections. In English marginals where elections are actually won, Labour needs to win over Tory voters. Picking a left wing dinosaur who lives in the 1970s will not an election.
Corbyn is a core vote comfort blanket for Labour core, not an electable prime minister.
Comments
Just been reading that Tories are registering to join Labour to vote Corbyn. Lol
Political party's should not move up and down the political spectrum, the voters should. All that's happening is we are having a realignment of politics in the UK so the right people are in the right party's.
BNP / UKIP / Tory / Orange Liberals / SDP & New Labour / Green's , Labour / Communist
The politicians just need to move to the party that has the principles they really believe in.
Until you realise that a deciding factor in the general election was the fear that SNP would have formed a coalition with Labour.
The state doesn't have the answer for everything, yet Corbyn and his contingent do. This is actually has me quite anxious and turns my stomach. The same feeling I felt May 7th when it was announced Labour would suffer such humiliating and crippling losses.
Corbyn will be the Michael Foot or Neil Hancock of the 20 teens. The only way Labour will get in power in 2020 is with a Female as leader and strong fiscal credibility. I could just about stomach Burnham, Corbyn definitely not. What concerns me is that the unions are secretly trying to fix the vote so Corbyn gets in, much the same as they did with Ed in 2010.
This appears to me as desparate, the last thing we need quite frankly.
100% AGREE, let the Tories keep sneering and jeering, I would rather see them in power for the rest of my life than to EVER become one of them, perhaps a true left of centre party might struggle to win an election, but when there millions of people in this country who don't vote because they believe that "Labour or Tory they are both the same and nothing ever changes" no one can predict what will happen if the people actually have a real choice rather than a choice between 2 different versions of the same party.
Although seeing as the story is in the Torygraph I would take it with a skip full of salt,
The Mirror: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jez-can-jeremy-corbyn-on-6072570
Well as a life long Labour supporter I would be truly delighted to vote for such a leader it's way past time we had a Labour party closer to the party that they were originally, a party that supports the working class rather than despises them,
If you want a Tory lite party you might as well vote for Tory full strength.
Cheers for that. It would be delicious if after the (one party state loving) Tory supporters who thought it was a 'splendid jape' to vote for Corbyn in the belief that it will make Labour unelectable allowing the beloved leader and 'the party' to rule indefinitely (what with them being such lovers of democracy n all that) that Jezzer went on to become leader and then Labour won by a landslide at the next election.,
That would be SO sweet.
I'm more than aware of that, but I'm not sure that part of Labour's desires would be Scottish independence, so I think we can forget that part of the comparison.
The last Left wing leader of Labour was Michael Foot remind me of how well that worked out for them ?
Labour only became electable by a move to Right , Brown who was seen as Left of Blair lost seats and Milibands move slightly left of Brown lost them even more
I think Corbyn will take no hostage. He will be a formidable force for Cameron to deal with and will freshen up the Labour Party - at least for the short term. It will feel like a genuine alternative to what we've had in this country for two decades, but, over time, as his viewpoints and socialist agenda come to the fore, people will, I think turn against him. He is pro-immigration, a sympathiser to IS as (according to himself on Question Time) Britain is primarily to blame for it.
He might be the best person for Labour at this moment in time, not necessarily to get it elected in 2020, but to restore credibilty back to the Labour Party by giving it its own identity again. Who knows, he could end up being the Tories' Nemesis.
Importantly though, could you tell me how such a party that you want would go about "supporting the working class" when they have no power, no influence and no prospect of achieving that power and influence?
I could never vote Tory. But you can take a few "tory-lite" policies (which also resonate with the wider electorate) and they can be mixed with a number of centrist policies, a number of centre-left policies, a number of green/ecological policies to give you a party that not only supports the working class, but also supports the middle (the "squeezed middle") as well as entrepreneurship (especially those people who are small business owners and sole traders) and also is attractive to voters who were Labour but swapped to Tory, as well as voters who are on the left of the Tory principles.
Socialism and caring about the working class is not an exclusive preserve of the left. It can work in the centre (as Blair proved). And as I keep on saying, what is the good of having beliefs if you are never in a position to change things. You fist need the power and influence, then you can make a start. otherwise, you are reduced to a socialist rump that talks the talk but is miles away from able the walk the walk.
Liz Kendall would, in the long term, be far worse for Labour than Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is sincere in what he says because he is driven by passion. Kendall gives soundbites by saying what SHE thinks people want to hear - and she has a condascending tone too.
youre dealing with dogma just like the greens
its the whole lefty moral superiority paradigm we care for the sick poor disabled etc
not like those horrible nasty tories
So I don't really think their opinions of how bad Corbyn will be are worth taking seriously. they have a seriously bad record.
Corbyn for what its worth already seems to have brought back many lost Labour supporters. So what ever he is doing is working.
And its arrogance like this that will make people vote Corbyn just out of protest to spite the evil Tories.
If he ends up PM it would be delicious.
Five years is a century in politics. Nothing is certain one way or the other.
That's not dogma, it's just trying to do the right thing. And yes, the Tories can be nasty!
It is arrogance and its not the simple truth either. Its your opinion.
Labour's 2015 manifesto was more to the centre than any of the previous 3. It was actually the main reason they didn't get elected as they were seen as just a B grade Tory party. So Labour supporters either all jumped ship to the SNP, Greens, some oddly even UKIP - I doubt they knew they were voting for in this instance. Rather than turning up to vote for Labour.
You are completely overlooking why Labour supporters, it is estimated 3 million of them didn't even vote so lets also factor in those who did and opted for the other parties, ditched Labour in May. It wasn't because they were too Left, it was because they were looking Centre Right on many policies. In many peoples words ''just another Tory party'. People wanted something different. They didn't see it with Labour.
All this and don't forget the key and most important reason for the Tories winning was not all down to Labour. It was the Lib Dem vote collapsing in England. The Tories took 20 English seats from the Lib Dems because it was the Lib Dems who took the blame for the last five years of Tory government.
Who will take the blame in 2020 for the next five years? they have no Lib Dems to shield them anymore.
Corbyn is a left wing extremist. Left wing extremists dont win elections. In English marginals where elections are actually won, Labour needs to win over Tory voters. Picking a left wing dinosaur who lives in the 1970s will not an election.
Corbyn is a core vote comfort blanket for Labour core, not an electable prime minister.