Damn, I thought this was just a general discussion thread. Too late for me to go and edit my original post now
Sorry to anyone who has been spoiled by my post
It's fine. I sort of glossed over it anyway. I also don't want to start another argument about spoilers again! Besides, the thing you mentioned about Dawn in your post is what I assumed the plot of The Replacement would be so it's not like the idea's never occurred to me before.
I'll post another Angel review a little bit later but right now I don't want to interrupt any organic conversation about Faith that might ensue because of the post at the top of this page. ;-)
Damn, I thought this was just a general discussion thread. Too late for me to go and edit my original post now
Sorry to anyone who has been spoiled by my post
If you PM one of the mods and explain, I'm sure they will edit your post for you. The op is only on season 5, so definitely won't want to know about anything from S7:).
All this talk of actors going up for different roles and being replaced - did Joss or any of the other writers actually write a character with a specific actor in mind, or did everyone have to audition?
That is without a doubt the worst one, yeah.
I'm unsure. I think roles were offered to Mercedes McNab and Julie Benz after unsuccessfully auditioning for Buffy. I think David Boreanaz was always going to be Angel though I have a feeling someone auctioned for the role. Xander was originally offered to Ryan Reynolds but I'd take Nicholas Brendon over him. SMG suggested Michelle Trachtenberg for the role of Dawn after the two worked together previously.
That's me trivia'd out
Makes me wonder how the show would have been like if we didn't have SMG, Alyson Hannigan, Nicholas Brendon and Charisma Carpenter or if Charisma was Buffy and Sarah was Cordelia.
Makes me wonder how the show would have been like if we didn't have SMG, Alyson Hannigan, Nicholas Brendon and Charisma Carpenter or if Charisma was Buffy and Sarah was Cordelia.
Didn't Buffy used to be like Cordelia before she came to Sunnydale? If so I imagine it would have been like that. I'd also like to think Anthony Head was the only person considered for Giles. Don't tell me Alexis Denisof was as well!
Happy Anniversary
- I know the Host believed that the Torto demon and his parasite murdered the song but I personally think killed would be a more appropriate word. I thought their rendition was great.
- Ah! The Bartender is played by Mr Treeger from Friends! There's also a pretty funny episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm which he's in too. Also funny was the part in this episode where he sang 'Oh He's a Jolly Good Fellow.'
- The demons are...interesting and their language is cool. I just wish they'd done a whole episode though where time was frozen as opposed to building up to it and exploring the consequences of why somebody would. Personally, I don't think it takes much imagination to consider why someone would want to freeze time. The terminology is also lost on me for the most part so I sort of wish they'd chosen to explore it from anything other than a scientific perspective.
- I like Virginia. The scene where she reunites with Wesley is definitely one of the better scenes in this episode.
- Angel and the Host's dynamic is pretty good fun though I wish they'd played up the juxtaposition more. It's also a shame that their 'buddy cop' relationship couldn't have been put to better use elsewhere.
- All these scenes with Gene and Denise. They're O.K but I don't really feel like I'm watching an episode of Angel, really.
- Here's a thought which I don't think I mentioned - do you think Angel was right to leave the members of Wolfram and Hart to die? I'm wondering because I totally believed his justification here which effectively is they're standing in the way of his trying to repent. Ironic really when you think about it. I suppose that makes his motives flawed.
- The idea behind the sect is pretty cool as well.
- You see this is what this episode needed to be about! Angel starting to realise he was wrong to ditch his gang contrasted with his gang finding their feet without him. I know they played up that angle anyway but in my eyes it wasn't enough. The time metaphor was good but it was executed in a pretty boring way so honestly I wish they hadn't of bothered. I wanted to see more of the murder mystery instead. That whole scene was brilliant. I was half expecting Wesley to get it wrong.
- I think my main problem with this episode is how the Gene storyline was ultimately handled. Although I think his motives were somewhat interesting and relatable too (?), the fact he didn't realise what he was doing was wrong (aka that his actions would cause the end of the world) kind of soured the whole thing for me. I think it would have been much more interesting - if a little stereotypical - had the characters been older and aware of what they were doing - perhaps one of them was trying to save a dying spouse? This way we might have gotten a more interesting character insight as opposed to something which I found for the most part dull?
- Although part of me believed that Angel was the person standing outside the office at the end, the end result was more or less the same. It looks like Angel's going to be the one left out in the cold now although, that being said, I can't necessarily think why they wouldn't want him back especially since he seems to have saved his own soul from darkness more or less.
- To conclude, I think that was the weakest episode of the season so far and certainly the weakest one in quite a while. I don't really have anything else to add which I haven't mentioned already aside from maybe a plethora of puns about how an episode where time was being slowed down was largely boring.
Is there no way to change the title of this thread to one that makes it clear that it's about people watching the show for the first time as it seems more and more people are posting unintentional spoilers as they don't realise?
Is there no way to change the title of this thread to one that makes it clear that it's about people watching the show for the first time as it seems more and more people are posting unintentional spoilers as they don't realise?
I don't know. I tried editing my first post a while ago when someone mentioned about Willow getting a girlfriend but obviously the time to do so by then had expired. I'm still relatively new here so does anyone know if the mods would let you do that sort of thing?
As far as I know nobody else was offered or auditioned for Giles. I think it was always going to be Anthony Stewart Head.
I'm now rewatching Angel too as we have crossover episodes. The good thing is how new it feels as I've not watched Angel as much as I have with Buffy. With Buffy I know that show inside out and if it was a subject when I was at school I would have passed it no problem. I actually have a huge collection of Buffy and Angel too. Dvds of course, action figures, trading cards, books, plates, magazines and 3ft statues of Angel and Spike as well as busts of The Judge, Gentleman and D'Hoffryn. I even have my own puppet Angel. Everything except the busts, cards and statues are in their original packaging. I bought a lot when younger and had more money than sense
I don't know. I tried editing my first post a while ago when someone mentioned about Willow getting a girlfriend but obviously the time to do so by then had expired. I'm still relatively new here so does anyone know if the mods would let you do that sort of thing?
I think if you hit the Alert button on your first post and then ask the mods if they can change the title. eg. ask if they can add something like "First time watcher - NO SPOILERS PLEASE" to the end of the post title. I'm sure they will help.
As far as I know nobody else was offered or auditioned for Giles. I think it was always going to be Anthony Stewart Head.
I'm now rewatching Angel too as we have crossover episodes. The good thing is how new it feels as I've not watched Angel as much as I have with Buffy. With Buffy I know that show inside out and if it was a subject when I was at school I would have passed it no problem. I actually have a huge collection of Buffy and Angel too. Dvds of course, action figures, trading cards, books, plates, magazines and 3ft statues of Angel and Spike as well as busts of The Judge, Gentleman and D'Hoffryn. I even have my own puppet Angel. Everything except the busts, cards and statues are in their original packaging. I bought a lot when younger and had more money than sense
I got into collecting stuff too, mainly the trading cards and binders, which is slowly growing still:p. I find there's tons of stuff on eBay, I got the entire collection of the UK buffy magazine for £10, still with all the posters, and freebies attached!, but my best buy was a season 1 binder for £35, and had 'extra cards' with it. When I got it, the cards were a complete season 1 basic, a complete season 2 basic, a few chase cards, a couple of duplicates and in amongst all of theme was a signed Joss Whedon autograph card. I actually felt like I'd just got the winning lottery numbers when I saw it as it was so unexpected:D:blush:. Either the seller didn't realise what it was, plain forgot about it or a bit of both.
I heard that Joss Whedon really, really wanted Donald Sutherland for the part.
I can't get that image out of my head now, thanks!
I think if you hit the Alert button on your first post and then ask the mods if they can change the title. eg. ask if they can add something like "First time watcher - NO SPOILERS PLEASE" to the end of the post title. I'm sure they will help.
I heard that Joss Whedon really, really wanted Donald Sutherland for the part.
I think if you hit the Alert button on your first post and then ask the mods if they can change the title. eg. ask if they can add something like "First time watcher - NO SPOILERS PLEASE" to the end of the post title. I'm sure they will help.
Don't even joke about that Despite the trauma of the film I still own it
I got into collecting stuff too, mainly the trading cards and binders, which is slowly growing still:p. I find there's tons of stuff on eBay, I got the entire collection of the UK buffy magazine for £10, still with all the posters, and freebies attached!, but my best buy was a season 1 binder for £35, and had 'extra cards' with it. When I got it, the cards were a complete season 1 basic, a complete season 2 basic, a few chase cards, a couple of duplicates and in amongst all of theme was a signed Joss Whedon autograph card. I actually felt like I'd just got the winning lottery numbers when I saw it as it was so unexpected:D:blush:. Either the seller didn't realise what it was, plain forgot about it or a bit of both.
I am so jealous. I'll give you my house for the Joss autograph card
That's awesome though especially if the seller had no idea.
More trivia by the way. The actresses who play Maggie Walsh, Faith and Tara all starred together in 1995 film Bye Bye Love. Just remembered this after watching the body swap episode of Buffy.
Wait...Donald Sutherland was actually Giles or some variation thereof?! Holy S-
He played Buffy's mentor (essentially what Giles would become in the TV show) in the original 1992 movie. No spoilers ahead for that movie (not that there's much to spoil, as the plot's paper thin!)
Apparently, he was notorious for being demanding on set and changing much of his character and dialogue - to the point that Joss Whedon is well known for absolutely hating the guy.
IIRC, Joss Whedon was 19 when he sold the original Buffy script and he'd written it to be a story about female empowerment. However, the producers wanted it to be more of a silly comedy and had it massively re-written. I believe Whedon even walked off set in the end and disowned the project, considering it an insult to his original story.
You can definitely see the proto-elements of the TV show in the film, but it really isn't a great movie.
The TV show kinda acts like the movie might be canon, though, as it somewhat suggests that the movie might have been prior to Buffy moving to Sunndydale. In fact, I think there is a flashback early in the series (in season 2 or 3, I think, so you should have seen it already) where we see Buffy meet a character that - if you'd seen the movie - might be intended to be Sutherland's character. I don't think he's mentioned by name, though and its not a particularly important flashback.
I believe Joss did write a comic of Buffy's origins that is a direct prequel to the TV show and based off his original script for the movie.
The TV show kinda acts like the movie might be canon, though, as it somewhat suggests that the movie might have been prior to Buffy moving to Sunndydale. In fact, I think there is a flashback early in the series (in season 2 or 3, I think, so you should have seen it already) where we see Buffy meet a character that - if you'd seen the movie - might be intended to be Sutherland's character. I don't think he's mentioned by name, though and its not a particularly important flashback.
Is that one in Becoming where Angel is watching her and she's greeted by some guy outside the school?
Is that one in Becoming where Angel is watching her and she's greeted by some guy outside the school?
Yep, that's the one. I was never sure how much the movie and TV show were supposed to be related, but that flashback suggested there was supposed to be some sort of connection. I certainly wouldn't claim the movie was a direct prequel, though, as there is too much different about the mythos.
On an unrelated note, I just watched a rather hilarious review of the last Twilight movie, in which the reviewer ends his review by summoning forth Stephanie Meyer, engaging her in combat, staking her and then concluding their fight by saying "Joss Whedon sends his regards."
Made me laugh.
In fact, I also liked his reasons as to why Twilight is a poor imitation of Buffy.
"When Bella is betrayed by her vampire lover, she curls up into a ball and then throws herself off a cliff. When Buffy is betrayed by her vampire lover, she impales him with a sword and sends him to hell. Seriously, who would you rather be?"
Don't even joke about that Despite the trauma of the film I still own it
I am so jealous. I'll give you my house for the Joss autograph card
That's awesome though especially if the seller had no idea.
More trivia by the way. The actresses who play Maggie Walsh, Faith and Tara all starred together in 1995 film Bye Bye Love. Just remembered this after watching the body swap episode of Buffy.
Haha, nope sorry it's not for sale, I'm not going to make the same mistake my seller mde with it:p. I might be tempted if you can get me a night alone with Cain Dingle or Spike though:D
I've just been watching Hush, those Gentlemen are as creepy and nightmarish now as they were the first time I saw them, indeed along with Daleks they have got to be the most menacing tv villains ever to appear:o.
EDIT: Has anyone seen this? Hardly newsworthy, but thought it was pretty funny, especially the arrows highlighting where there's metaphors, and the romantic interests of vampires...
- To conclude, I think that was the weakest episode of the season so far and certainly the weakest one in quite a while. I don't really have anything else to add which I haven't mentioned already aside from maybe a plethora of puns about how an episode where time was being slowed down was largely boring.
I get why you didn't really like it, but I actually enjoyed this one. After a few episodes which (several EPIC moments aside) I did think were sometimes a bit to moody or a bit to slow, this one was pretty darn funny, especially in the scenes with Angel and the green Demon guy, who I reckon is gonna become as much a Master of the Pun as Spike was in Buffy. I also thought the sub plot with the physicist guy, though a bit slow and predictable, was quite relatable, and a nice little story for 45 mins...
So yeah, fairly enjoyable ep I thought? Am I right in thinking the guy in green appears even more throughout future eps? If so then I'm quite glad about that, though I hope he comes out of the karaoke bar a bit more, the constant visits to that place were getting a bit dull...
On an unrelated note, I just watched a rather hilarious review of the last Twilight movie, in which the reviewer ends his review by summoning forth Stephanie Meyer, engaging her in combat, staking her and then concluding their fight by saying "Joss Whedon sends his regards."
Made me laugh.
In fact, I also liked his reasons as to why Twilight is a poor imitation of Buffy.
"When Bella is betrayed by her vampire lover, she curls up into a ball and then throws herself off a cliff. When Buffy is betrayed by her vampire lover, she impales him with a sword and sends him to hell. Seriously, who would you rather be?"
Where could I find that review, sounds quite funny...?
One of the main reasons I was reluctant to check out Buffy to begin with, and I think a big reason lots of people ignore it, is that I did have the perception that it was just some Twilight like teen romance... I mean the Angel we see in early Buffy is very reminiscent of Edward Cullen.
I haven't actually seen Twilight, but I have seen clips of it, and it does look quite similar to Buffy, only without anyone of the wit, or the cleverness, or the sense of humour. Plus, the only characters I know through simple advertising and stuff (as I say, not seen it) are the main couple and some werewolf character who insists on taking his shirt off a lot. Whereas I was already familiar with the likes of Buffy, Giles, Spike and Willow, who, it goes without saying, all seem much better characters.
As I say, I haven't actually seen it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I've misjudged it. Maybe I've listened to much to virtually, ALL CRITICS. But I think there's a reason that Twilight, from what I've seen of it, seems to have plenty of Angel clones, but none of Spike...
Twilight is Buffy minus the brains and the heart...
Where could I find that review, sounds quite funny...?
One of the main reasons I was reluctant to check out Buffy to begin with, and I think a big reason lots of people ignore it, is that I did have the perception that it was just some Twilight like teen romance... I mean the Angel we see in early Buffy is very reminiscent of Edward Cullen.
I haven't actually seen Twilight, but I have seen clips of it, and it does look quite similar to Buffy, only without anyone of the wit, or the cleverness, or the sense of humour. Plus, the only characters I know through simple advertising and stuff (as I say, not seen it) are the main couple and some werewolf character who insists on taking his shirt off a lot. Whereas I was already familiar with the likes of Buffy, Giles, Spike and Willow, who, it goes without saying, all seem much better characters.
As I say, I haven't actually seen it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I've misjudged it. Maybe I've listened to much to virtually, ALL CRITICS. But I think there's a reason that Twilight, from what I've seen of it, seems to have plenty of Angel clones, but none of Spike...
Twilight is Buffy minus the brains and the heart...
Here's the review. Its for Breaking Dawn, part 2. Note that I can't remember for sure if he references any more Buffy in the vid, so I'd recommend the OP not watch it, just in case. Pretty sure it doesn't, but better safe than sorry.
There are tons of reviews on that site, including whole series reviews of Buffy and Angel. Avoid those if you're still watching as they're loaded with spoilers!
As for what I think of Twilight, it has nothing that makes Buffy great. The lead character is a whiny, uninteresting girl who seems to define her existence based on her boyfriend. She is the complete antithesis of a strong female character like Buffy. I even tried reading the first book before the films ever came out and it was one of the worst pieces of poorly-written tosh I'd ever tried to read; full of soulless, unlikable characters who do idiotic and downright creepy things. The first film was a good adaption, in that respect.
Many say you could consider them "so bad its good," but I found the first film too painful to make it through to the end. But watching reviews take the piss out of them is quite entertaining, though!
Here's the review. Its for Breaking Dawn, part 2. Note that I can't remember for sure if he references any more Buffy in the vid, so I'd recommend the OP not watch it, just in case. Pretty sure it doesn't, but better safe than sorry.
That was pretty funny. I've not seen that reviewer before, though I have seen a few stuff by Nostalgia Critic, who I think is quite good...
But yeah, I don't care that I've not actually seen it, I'm still gonna say that it looks utterly dreadful. I mean, that werewolf, why.. what??? He fancies a baby???
Also, the weird looking fella (with the long hair, I thought I'd better clarify as they all look weird... in fact, yeah, all the "actors" in this look like they've been polished, like their a set of Barbie dolls...), is that Michael Sheen? As in the Welsh guy Michael Sheen? As in the guy who can actually act and is usually in really good stuff Michael Sheen? What's he doing there?
Something that really irritates me about Twilight and a lot of other vampire stuff is how fluffy and sparkly vampires are in pop culture and stuff. I cant think of any big, popular mainstream thing in recent years where Vampires were played as big, nasty, evil demonic creatures of the night, which their supposed to be. I guess you could say Buffy's a bit guilty of that as well, but only really with Angel, all the other vamps who are given a personality to them are pretty villainous, and even with Angel, he does quickly get a lot more complicated than the guy in Twilight ever is...
Haha, nope sorry it's not for sale, I'm not going to make the same mistake my seller mde with it:p. I might be tempted if you can get me a night alone with Cain Dingle or Spike though:D
I don't know why but that made me laugh. I've never heard anyone say they fancy him before. He does have a sort of roguish charm I suppose.
EDIT: Has anyone seen this? Hardly newsworthy, but thought it was pretty funny, especially the arrows highlighting where there's metaphors, and the romantic interests of vampires...
He's a witty bastard Joss isn't he...
I think I actually love him.
I just looked at that. Is that what happens to Spike in the end? Or was it supposed to be Angel? Obviously I don't want to know but it's gotten me thinking.
And the best thing was how Buffy just says, 'Pun.'
Buffy: So I'm like, 'Dad, do you want me to go to the dance in an
outfit I've already worn? Why do you hate me?'
I'm starting to think this should have been the body swap episode...
So yeah, fairly enjoyable ep I thought? Am I right in thinking the guy in green appears even more throughout future eps? If so then I'm quite glad about that, though I hope he comes out of the karaoke bar a bit more, the constant visits to that place were getting a bit dull...
I would imagine he does since he seems to have been quite an active presence up to this point. I also noticed they repeated the joke of a character just learning how to drive when they get in a car for the very first time. Plus, I wonder if the constant jaunts to the Karaoke Bar were in some way an inspiration for the Buffy musical episode?
One of the main reasons I was reluctant to check out Buffy to begin with, and I think a big reason lots of people ignore it, is that I did have the perception that it was just some Twilight like teen romance... I mean the Angel we see in early Buffy is very reminiscent of Edward Cullen.
I actually didn't realise there would be a romance element to Buffy before I started watching. I don't really know how I managed to avoid it. It does seem so obvious they'd go down that route in retrospect though, in the sense of a Slayer falling in love with a Vampire and vice versa.
As for what I think of Twilight, it has nothing that makes Buffy great. The lead character is a whiny, uninteresting girl who seems to define her existence based on her boyfriend. She is the complete antithesis of a strong female character like Buffy. I even tried reading the first book before the films ever came out and it was one of the worst pieces of poorly-written tosh I'd ever tried to read; full of soulless, unlikable characters who do idiotic and downright creepy things. The first film was a good adaption, in that respect.
BIB - That's a novel way of looking at it!
And I think it's a testament to Buffy and Angel that both shows are able to make soulless characters great.
But yeah, I don't care that I've not actually seen it, I'm still gonna say that it looks utterly dreadful. I mean, that werewolf, why.. what??? He fancies a baby???
I've heard about that. Is it an actual thing? I know that he imprints her or something so is that supposed to be a metaphor for love?
And although I haven't seen the films, I know that Michael Sheen is in them in some capacity so I'm guessing that is supposed to be him, yes.
Something that really irritates me about Twilight and a lot of other vampire stuff is how fluffy and sparkly vampires are in pop culture and stuff. I cant think of any big, popular mainstream thing in recent years where Vampires were played as big, nasty, evil demonic creatures of the night, which their supposed to be. I guess you could say Buffy's a bit guilty of that as well, but only really with Angel, all the other vamps who are given a personality to them are pretty villainous, and even with Angel, he does quickly get a lot more complicated than the guy in Twilight ever is...
True Blood is really good for that sort of thing I think though I'm not sure how mainstream that's considered to be?
I don't know why but that made me laugh. I've never heard anyone say they fancy him before. He does have a sort of roguish charm I suppose.
I knew of the character and show Angel before I saw Buffy properly, and the stuff with Spike was one of the main things I remembered from the show when it was originally on (I mean, I'm 6, so I'm gonna remember that+the action instead of the subtler, non-romantic character stuff, or the jokes, a lot of which I probably didn't get), so I was all to aware of that side of it...
I've heard about that. Is it an actual thing? I know that he imprints her or something so is that supposed to be a metaphor for love?
It was just in that review, I thought I'd watch it, it had him sensing a connection or something, calling the main vamp guy Dad, while the other characters saw them as a couple in the future..
True Blood is really good for that sort of thing I think though I'm not sure how mainstream that's considered to be?
Again, I've not really seen True Blood, but I thought the main, like, relationship in that was between a goodie vamp and a human woman... I mean, I know it will have some evil vampires in there, but then, so does Twilight really...
Not that I am actually comparing them. I'm not hugely impressed by what I've heard of True Blood, but it does sound infinitely better than anything on Twilight does.
Do you reckon I should check it out? Is it a good show?
Again, I've not really seen True Blood, but I thought the main, like, relationship in that was between a goodie vamp and a human woman... I mean, I know it will have some evil vampires in there, but then, so does Twilight really...
Not that I am actually comparing them. I'm not hugely impressed by what I've heard of True Blood, but it does sound infinitely better than anything on Twilight does.
Do you reckon I should check it out? Is it a good show?
True Blood is great, but saying that, what I enjoy most about it is its own unique vibe. You could take away all the supernatural elements and I would still think it's great. It's very raw, fun and trashy (in a good way), the supernatural stuff is a bonus. It can get a bit cheesy at times, but it knows it, so it never goes too far in that respect. It's an HBO show so expect a large pool of characters with lots of different things going on at the same time, lots of swearing...and lots of sex.
I don't know why but that made me laugh. I've never heard anyone say they fancy him before. He does have a sort of roguish charm I suppose.
You've never heard someone say they fancy him?!?! Oh my Valourant, I need to introduce you to the soap section of DS, most specifically the Emmerdaily threads, and Cain's Posse. You will find several of us willing to crawl over broken glass in a salt pit just to get a glimpse of him:D
Comments
Sorry to anyone who has been spoiled by my post
It's fine. I sort of glossed over it anyway. I also don't want to start another argument about spoilers again! Besides, the thing you mentioned about Dawn in your post is what I assumed the plot of The Replacement would be so it's not like the idea's never occurred to me before.
I'll post another Angel review a little bit later but right now I don't want to interrupt any organic conversation about Faith that might ensue because of the post at the top of this page. ;-)
If you PM one of the mods and explain, I'm sure they will edit your post for you. The op is only on season 5, so definitely won't want to know about anything from S7:).
I'm unsure. I think roles were offered to Mercedes McNab and Julie Benz after unsuccessfully auditioning for Buffy. I think David Boreanaz was always going to be Angel though I have a feeling someone auctioned for the role. Xander was originally offered to Ryan Reynolds but I'd take Nicholas Brendon over him. SMG suggested Michelle Trachtenberg for the role of Dawn after the two worked together previously.
That's me trivia'd out
Makes me wonder how the show would have been like if we didn't have SMG, Alyson Hannigan, Nicholas Brendon and Charisma Carpenter or if Charisma was Buffy and Sarah was Cordelia.
Didn't Buffy used to be like Cordelia before she came to Sunnydale? If so I imagine it would have been like that.
Happy Anniversary
- I know the Host believed that the Torto demon and his parasite murdered the song but I personally think killed would be a more appropriate word. I thought their rendition was great.
- Ah! The Bartender is played by Mr Treeger from Friends! There's also a pretty funny episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm which he's in too. Also funny was the part in this episode where he sang 'Oh He's a Jolly Good Fellow.'
- The demons are...interesting and their language is cool. I just wish they'd done a whole episode though where time was frozen as opposed to building up to it and exploring the consequences of why somebody would. Personally, I don't think it takes much imagination to consider why someone would want to freeze time. The terminology is also lost on me for the most part so I sort of wish they'd chosen to explore it from anything other than a scientific perspective.
- I like Virginia. The scene where she reunites with Wesley is definitely one of the better scenes in this episode.
- Angel and the Host's dynamic is pretty good fun though I wish they'd played up the juxtaposition more. It's also a shame that their 'buddy cop' relationship couldn't have been put to better use elsewhere.
- All these scenes with Gene and Denise. They're O.K but I don't really feel like I'm watching an episode of Angel, really.
- Here's a thought which I don't think I mentioned - do you think Angel was right to leave the members of Wolfram and Hart to die? I'm wondering because I totally believed his justification here which effectively is they're standing in the way of his trying to repent. Ironic really when you think about it. I suppose that makes his motives flawed.
- The idea behind the sect is pretty cool as well.
- You see this is what this episode needed to be about! Angel starting to realise he was wrong to ditch his gang contrasted with his gang finding their feet without him. I know they played up that angle anyway but in my eyes it wasn't enough. The time metaphor was good but it was executed in a pretty boring way so honestly I wish they hadn't of bothered. I wanted to see more of the murder mystery instead. That whole scene was brilliant. I was half expecting Wesley to get it wrong.
- I think my main problem with this episode is how the Gene storyline was ultimately handled. Although I think his motives were somewhat interesting and relatable too (?), the fact he didn't realise what he was doing was wrong (aka that his actions would cause the end of the world) kind of soured the whole thing for me. I think it would have been much more interesting - if a little stereotypical - had the characters been older and aware of what they were doing - perhaps one of them was trying to save a dying spouse? This way we might have gotten a more interesting character insight as opposed to something which I found for the most part dull?
- Although part of me believed that Angel was the person standing outside the office at the end, the end result was more or less the same. It looks like Angel's going to be the one left out in the cold now although, that being said, I can't necessarily think why they wouldn't want him back especially since he seems to have saved his own soul from darkness more or less.
- To conclude, I think that was the weakest episode of the season so far and certainly the weakest one in quite a while. I don't really have anything else to add which I haven't mentioned already aside from maybe a plethora of puns about how an episode where time was being slowed down was largely boring.
I don't know. I tried editing my first post a while ago when someone mentioned about Willow getting a girlfriend but obviously the time to do so by then had expired. I'm still relatively new here so does anyone know if the mods would let you do that sort of thing?
I'm now rewatching Angel too as we have crossover episodes. The good thing is how new it feels as I've not watched Angel as much as I have with Buffy. With Buffy I know that show inside out and if it was a subject when I was at school I would have passed it no problem. I actually have a huge collection of Buffy and Angel too. Dvds of course, action figures, trading cards, books, plates, magazines and 3ft statues of Angel and Spike as well as busts of The Judge, Gentleman and D'Hoffryn. I even have my own puppet Angel. Everything except the busts, cards and statues are in their original packaging. I bought a lot when younger and had more money than sense
I heard that Joss Whedon really, really wanted Donald Sutherland for the part.
I think if you hit the Alert button on your first post and then ask the mods if they can change the title. eg. ask if they can add something like "First time watcher - NO SPOILERS PLEASE" to the end of the post title. I'm sure they will help.
I got into collecting stuff too, mainly the trading cards and binders, which is slowly growing still:p. I find there's tons of stuff on eBay, I got the entire collection of the UK buffy magazine for £10, still with all the posters, and freebies attached!, but my best buy was a season 1 binder for £35, and had 'extra cards' with it. When I got it, the cards were a complete season 1 basic, a complete season 2 basic, a few chase cards, a couple of duplicates and in amongst all of theme was a signed Joss Whedon autograph card. I actually felt like I'd just got the winning lottery numbers when I saw it as it was so unexpected:D:blush:. Either the seller didn't realise what it was, plain forgot about it or a bit of both.
I can't get that image out of my head now, thanks!
I've now done that, thanks for the tip.
And I'm so envious of all the merchandise above!
Don't even joke about that
I am so jealous. I'll give you my house for the Joss autograph card
That's awesome though especially if the seller had no idea.
More trivia by the way. The actresses who play Maggie Walsh, Faith and Tara all starred together in 1995 film Bye Bye Love. Just remembered this after watching the body swap episode of Buffy.
Wait...Donald Sutherland was actually Giles or some variation thereof?! Holy S-
He was in the Buffy film as Merrick. Buffy was played by Kristy Swanson. The film wasn't a huge success but it had it's moments.
He played Buffy's mentor (essentially what Giles would become in the TV show) in the original 1992 movie. No spoilers ahead for that movie (not that there's much to spoil, as the plot's paper thin!)
Apparently, he was notorious for being demanding on set and changing much of his character and dialogue - to the point that Joss Whedon is well known for absolutely hating the guy.
IIRC, Joss Whedon was 19 when he sold the original Buffy script and he'd written it to be a story about female empowerment. However, the producers wanted it to be more of a silly comedy and had it massively re-written. I believe Whedon even walked off set in the end and disowned the project, considering it an insult to his original story.
You can definitely see the proto-elements of the TV show in the film, but it really isn't a great movie.
The TV show kinda acts like the movie might be canon, though, as it somewhat suggests that the movie might have been prior to Buffy moving to Sunndydale. In fact, I think there is a flashback early in the series (in season 2 or 3, I think, so you should have seen it already) where we see Buffy meet a character that - if you'd seen the movie - might be intended to be Sutherland's character. I don't think he's mentioned by name, though and its not a particularly important flashback.
I believe Joss did write a comic of Buffy's origins that is a direct prequel to the TV show and based off his original script for the movie.
Is that one in Becoming where Angel is watching her and she's greeted by some guy outside the school?
Thanks for posting that information as well.
Yep, that's the one. I was never sure how much the movie and TV show were supposed to be related, but that flashback suggested there was supposed to be some sort of connection. I certainly wouldn't claim the movie was a direct prequel, though, as there is too much different about the mythos.
On an unrelated note, I just watched a rather hilarious review of the last Twilight movie, in which the reviewer ends his review by summoning forth Stephanie Meyer, engaging her in combat, staking her and then concluding their fight by saying "Joss Whedon sends his regards."
Made me laugh.
In fact, I also liked his reasons as to why Twilight is a poor imitation of Buffy.
"When Bella is betrayed by her vampire lover, she curls up into a ball and then throws herself off a cliff. When Buffy is betrayed by her vampire lover, she impales him with a sword and sends him to hell. Seriously, who would you rather be?"
Haha, nope sorry it's not for sale, I'm not going to make the same mistake my seller mde with it:p. I might be tempted if you can get me a night alone with Cain Dingle or Spike though
I've just been watching Hush, those Gentlemen are as creepy and nightmarish now as they were the first time I saw them, indeed along with Daleks they have got to be the most menacing tv villains ever to appear:o.
http://uk.eonline.com/news/559505/joss-whedon-revives-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-with-a-twist
He's a witty bastard Joss isn't he...
I think I actually love him.
Buffy: So I'm like, 'Dad, do you want me to go to the dance in an
outfit I've already worn? Why do you hate me?'
I get why you didn't really like it, but I actually enjoyed this one. After a few episodes which (several EPIC moments aside) I did think were sometimes a bit to moody or a bit to slow, this one was pretty darn funny, especially in the scenes with Angel and the green Demon guy, who I reckon is gonna become as much a Master of the Pun as Spike was in Buffy. I also thought the sub plot with the physicist guy, though a bit slow and predictable, was quite relatable, and a nice little story for 45 mins...
So yeah, fairly enjoyable ep I thought? Am I right in thinking the guy in green appears even more throughout future eps? If so then I'm quite glad about that, though I hope he comes out of the karaoke bar a bit more, the constant visits to that place were getting a bit dull...
Where could I find that review, sounds quite funny...?
One of the main reasons I was reluctant to check out Buffy to begin with, and I think a big reason lots of people ignore it, is that I did have the perception that it was just some Twilight like teen romance... I mean the Angel we see in early Buffy is very reminiscent of Edward Cullen.
I haven't actually seen Twilight, but I have seen clips of it, and it does look quite similar to Buffy, only without anyone of the wit, or the cleverness, or the sense of humour. Plus, the only characters I know through simple advertising and stuff (as I say, not seen it) are the main couple and some werewolf character who insists on taking his shirt off a lot. Whereas I was already familiar with the likes of Buffy, Giles, Spike and Willow, who, it goes without saying, all seem much better characters.
As I say, I haven't actually seen it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I've misjudged it. Maybe I've listened to much to virtually, ALL CRITICS. But I think there's a reason that Twilight, from what I've seen of it, seems to have plenty of Angel clones, but none of Spike...
Twilight is Buffy minus the brains and the heart...
Here's the review. Its for Breaking Dawn, part 2. Note that I can't remember for sure if he references any more Buffy in the vid, so I'd recommend the OP not watch it, just in case. Pretty sure it doesn't, but better safe than sorry.
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/blockbuster-buster/blockbuster-buster/41109-breaking-dawn-part-2
There are tons of reviews on that site, including whole series reviews of Buffy and Angel. Avoid those if you're still watching as they're loaded with spoilers!
As for what I think of Twilight, it has nothing that makes Buffy great. The lead character is a whiny, uninteresting girl who seems to define her existence based on her boyfriend. She is the complete antithesis of a strong female character like Buffy. I even tried reading the first book before the films ever came out and it was one of the worst pieces of poorly-written tosh I'd ever tried to read; full of soulless, unlikable characters who do idiotic and downright creepy things. The first film was a good adaption, in that respect.
Many say you could consider them "so bad its good," but I found the first film too painful to make it through to the end. But watching reviews take the piss out of them is quite entertaining, though!
That was pretty funny. I've not seen that reviewer before, though I have seen a few stuff by Nostalgia Critic, who I think is quite good...
But yeah, I don't care that I've not actually seen it, I'm still gonna say that it looks utterly dreadful. I mean, that werewolf, why.. what??? He fancies a baby???
Also, the weird looking fella (with the long hair, I thought I'd better clarify as they all look weird... in fact, yeah, all the "actors" in this look like they've been polished, like their a set of Barbie dolls...), is that Michael Sheen? As in the Welsh guy Michael Sheen? As in the guy who can actually act and is usually in really good stuff Michael Sheen? What's he doing there?
Something that really irritates me about Twilight and a lot of other vampire stuff is how fluffy and sparkly vampires are in pop culture and stuff. I cant think of any big, popular mainstream thing in recent years where Vampires were played as big, nasty, evil demonic creatures of the night, which their supposed to be. I guess you could say Buffy's a bit guilty of that as well, but only really with Angel, all the other vamps who are given a personality to them are pretty villainous, and even with Angel, he does quickly get a lot more complicated than the guy in Twilight ever is...
I don't know why but that made me laugh. I've never heard anyone say they fancy him before. He does have a sort of roguish charm I suppose.
I just looked at that. Is that what happens to Spike in the end? Or was it supposed to be Angel? Obviously I don't want to know but it's gotten me thinking.
And the best thing was how Buffy just says, 'Pun.'
I'm starting to think this should have been the body swap episode...
I would imagine he does since he seems to have been quite an active presence up to this point. I also noticed they repeated the joke of a character just learning how to drive when they get in a car for the very first time. Plus, I wonder if the constant jaunts to the Karaoke Bar were in some way an inspiration for the Buffy musical episode?
I actually didn't realise there would be a romance element to Buffy before I started watching. I don't really know how I managed to avoid it. It does seem so obvious they'd go down that route in retrospect though, in the sense of a Slayer falling in love with a Vampire and vice versa.
BIB - That's a novel way of looking at it!
And I think it's a testament to Buffy and Angel that both shows are able to make soulless characters great.
I've heard about that. Is it an actual thing? I know that he imprints her or something so is that supposed to be a metaphor for love?
And although I haven't seen the films, I know that Michael Sheen is in them in some capacity so I'm guessing that is supposed to be him, yes.
True Blood is really good for that sort of thing I think though I'm not sure how mainstream that's considered to be?
I knew of the character and show Angel before I saw Buffy properly, and the stuff with Spike was one of the main things I remembered from the show when it was originally on (I mean, I'm 6, so I'm gonna remember that+the action instead of the subtler, non-romantic character stuff, or the jokes, a lot of which I probably didn't get), so I was all to aware of that side of it...
It was just in that review, I thought I'd watch it, it had him sensing a connection or something, calling the main vamp guy Dad, while the other characters saw them as a couple in the future..
What was he thinking
Again, I've not really seen True Blood, but I thought the main, like, relationship in that was between a goodie vamp and a human woman... I mean, I know it will have some evil vampires in there, but then, so does Twilight really...
Not that I am actually comparing them. I'm not hugely impressed by what I've heard of True Blood, but it does sound infinitely better than anything on Twilight does.
Do you reckon I should check it out? Is it a good show?
True Blood is great, but saying that, what I enjoy most about it is its own unique vibe. You could take away all the supernatural elements and I would still think it's great. It's very raw, fun and trashy (in a good way), the supernatural stuff is a bonus. It can get a bit cheesy at times, but it knows it, so it never goes too far in that respect. It's an HBO show so expect a large pool of characters with lots of different things going on at the same time, lots of swearing...and lots of sex.