Saturday is the Sabbath. Easier to understand if you speak Italian or Spanish. Sabado y Domingo are Saturday and Sunday in Spanish, meaning Sabbath and Lord's Day.
So unless someone can explain to me otherwise, every single Christian on the planet is going to Hell for non observance. Including Andrea Williams
I'll be happy to explain otherwise. The commandments are from the Old Testament which is the Jewish part of the Bible. Keep the Sabbath holy etc refer to the Jewish sabbath which is a Saturday. That's why a lot of Jewish businesses are closed on Saturdays. To Christians the sabbath is a Sunday. Hence in the past a lot of places were closed in the west on Sundays. It's only in more recent years because people demanded the right to go shopping on Sundays that has changed.
No it's living in a place where there is a bunch of nutters who think that a sky fair exists and tells them how they should live their lives and yet have never in the whole of history proved that to be even remotely the case.
Worse! They think that they are so right, without anything to suggest that they are, ever existing, that they think they can't tell people how they should live according to the nonsense they have chosen to think is true.
In a Democracy, arguments are backed up with fact and reality. They have none.
Why should anyone waste a moment of they time on these people?
They have a right to be a nut job, but they have no right to waste anyone else's time.
Actually I think you are wrong here. In a democracy, arguments are not necessarily backed up with fact and reality. It is part of the democratic process that people are free to hold and express the most bonkers views. In this case, the anti-gay religious standpoint does include a lot of people; the BBC are not giving air time to someone who believes that the earth is flat. It is right imo for them to allow her to say her piece, and pleasing that it comes over poorly, since if anything it is likely to bolster support for same sex marriage having the opposition coming across badly.
I'll be happy to explain otherwise. The commandments are from the Old Testament which is the Jewish part of the Bible. Keep the Sabbath holy etc refer to the Jewish sabbath which is a Saturday. That's why a lot of Jewish businesses are closed on Saturdays. To Christians the sabbath is a Sunday. Hence in the past a lot of places were closed in the west on Sundays. It's only in more recent years because people demanded the right to go shopping on Sundays that has changed.
Oh I get that. My question is Why? Does it say so in the Gospels or the New Testament? If not, why move it from Saturday to Sunday?
And if it was effectively decided by committee like the removal of the requirement for male circumcision, then aren't you all breaking the word of God and damning yourselves to eternal torment by working or shopping on Saturdays?
Oh I get that. My question is Why? Does it say so in the Gospels or the New Testament? If not, why move it from Saturday to Sunday?
And if it was effectively decided by committee like the removal of the requirement for male circumcision, then aren't you all breaking the word of God and damning yourselves to eternal torment by working or shopping on Saturdays?
Oh I get that. My question is Why? Does it say so in the Gospels or the New Testament? If not, why move it from Saturday to Sunday?
And if it was effectively decided by committee like the removal of the requirement for male circumcision, then aren't you all breaking the word of God and damning yourselves to eternal torment by working or shopping on Saturdays?
if you are attempting to reason with a believer, i would strongly advise against it!
its bad for the blood pressure so i hear
if you are attempting to reason with a believer, i would strongly advise against it!
its bad for the blood pressure so i hear
Oh I'm a believer? Cool. Did you skim read and make some assumptions there or do you just assign random characteristics to other posters? You must really hate those religious types who are judgemental about others.
It is also true that not all gay people favour the idea of gay marriage. As a gay Christian, I still feel that 'tradition' is actually important and I cannot really see why civil partnerships weren't enough.
Yes, there ARE actually plenty of gay men and women who share my view, though you would never guess it from the BBC Stonewall Broadcasting Corporation.
if you are attempting to reason with a believer, i would strongly advise against it!
its bad for the blood pressure so i hear
I'm genuinely interested in this one. In many European languages the name for the day we call Saturday translates to Sabbath, even though those are Christian countries (e.g. Italy). So it seems like something has changed over the years, obviously pretty close to Christianity obtaining a hierarchy and organisation.
It is also true that not all gay people favour the idea of gay marriage. As a gay Christian, I still feel that 'tradition' is actually important and I cannot really see why civil partnerships weren't enough.
Yes, there ARE actually plenty of gay men and women who share my view, though you would never guess it from the BBC Stonewall Broadcasting Corporation.
One of my closest friends actually shared your view, and to an extent he still does, but he is also someone who believes firmly in equality, and it's actually your Christian leaders that ended up making him join the fight for equal marriage.
They dress it up about tradition yet come out with some absolutely vile and insulting statements, such as the ex-archbishop of Canterbury..
Separate but equal is never the same as equal, and that's why civil partnerships were not enough for me. It created this situation were LGBT people were second class citizens compared to their heterosexual peers, which to me, can never be right.
Oh I'm a believer? Cool. Did you skim read and make some assumptions there or do you just assign random characteristics to other posters? You must really hate those religious types who are judgemental about others.
didnt even read your posts, i was talking in general.
It is also true that not all gay people favour the idea of gay marriage. As a gay Christian, I still feel that 'tradition' is actually important and I cannot really see why civil partnerships weren't enough.
Yes, there ARE actually plenty of gay men and women who share my view, though you would never guess it from the BBC Stonewall Broadcasting Corporation.
i, as a fellow homo, also did not give a fig about gay marriage, legalize it or not, didnt bother me in the slightest, i have no intention of marrying ever.
though seeing how much it has p!ssed certain people off, i am starting to revel in it
i really should get out more....
didnt even read your posts, i was talking in general.
i, as a fellow homo, also did not give a fig about gay marriage, legalize it or not, didnt bother me in the slightest, i have no intention of marrying ever.
though seeing how much it has p!ssed certain people off, i am starting to revel in it
i really should get out more....
Oh ok. Just that you quoted a response to my post. Still, enjoy your revelling.
The BBC does no one any favours by trying to be "balanced" even in issues such as gay marriage, where both sides do not have equally valid arguments.
That reminds me of something Dara O'Briain said in one of his shows... About the BBC trying to always be 'balanced'... A NASA official talking about the space station...
"And, in the interest of balance, here is Barry who believes the sky is a carpet painted by God"
Attention for herself and her nasty institution. 'You can't just redefine an institution.' Well obviously we can because we just have. What does she think actually happened?
'Tom Daley turned gay because his father died.'
That's so many levels of horrible. Plus she's campaigning to keep homosexuality illegal in Jamaica. And she looks utterly deranged. As my grandmother would say, there's wiser locked up.
I'm probably part of the 20%. I don't think I'd want to go to a gay wedding because I would not choose to see blokes kissing blokes, women kissing women, holding hands, public displays of affection etc. if I can avoid it. Makes me feel a bit queasy. I'm sure a lot of people would say the same if they were honest about it, but would not be keen to say so because of the inevitable PC backlash nowadays. But 30 years ago that would have been a commonly expressed opinion. I'm kind of pleased my grandparents are deceased now because I think the gay marriage thing would have sadly killed them anyway. And my Uncle Jack too. He was a lovely man in almost every respect, but he used to say horrible things about gay people, calling them p*******. Even I was uncomfortable with that sort of name-calling. I used to hear it in the playground too. F*****s, sausage jockeys, you name it, I heard it. My parents were/are pretty uptight about homosexuals too. I remember when Freddie Mercury died and Elton John was paying tribute to him on telly, and my Dad said "Well, he would, he's another p*** too."
So I'd say it's hard for people who've had an upbringing like that to fully embrace the idea that gay sex is "normal" and "equal", even though we're told we have to now. At least we can safely say that the majority of Tory MPs probably feel the same - more than half voted against gay marriage.
I'm probably part of the 20%. I don't think I'd want to go to a gay wedding because I would not choose to see blokes kissing blokes, women kissing women, holding hands, public displays of affection etc. if I can avoid it. Makes me feel a bit queasy. I'm sure a lot of people would say the same if they were honest about it, but would not be keen to say so because of the inevitable PC backlash nowadays. But 30 years ago that would have been a commonly expressed opinion. I'm kind of pleased my grandparents are deceased now because I think the gay marriage thing would have sadly killed them anyway. And my Uncle Jack too. He was a lovely man in almost every respect, but he used to say horrible things about gay people, calling them p*******. Even I was uncomfortable with that sort of name-calling. I used to hear it in the playground too. F*****s, sausage jockeys, you name it, I heard it. My parents were/are pretty uptight about homosexuals too. I remember when Freddie Mercury died and Elton John was paying tribute to him on telly, and my Dad said "Well, he would, he's another p*** too."
So I'd say it's hard for people who've had an upbringing like that to fully embrace the idea that gay sex is "normal" and "equal", even though we're told we have to now. At least we can safely say that the majority of Tory MPs probably feel the same - more than half voted against gay marriage.
Out of all the stupid things that have been said in this thread, you've managed to nip in at the last and pip them all to the post.
Do you ever think that perhaps you and your family are the ones with the problem?
I'm probably part of the 20%. I don't think I'd want to go to a gay wedding because I would not choose to see blokes kissing blokes, women kissing women, holding hands, public displays of affection etc. if I can avoid it. Makes me feel a bit queasy. I'm sure a lot of people would say the same if they were honest about it, but would not be keen to say so because of the inevitable PC backlash nowadays. But 30 years ago that would have been a commonly expressed opinion. I'm kind of pleased my grandparents are deceased now because I think the gay marriage thing would have sadly killed them anyway. And my Uncle Jack too. He was a lovely man in almost every respect, but he used to say horrible things about gay people, calling them p*******. Even I was uncomfortable with that sort of name-calling. I used to hear it in the playground too. F*****s, sausage jockeys, you name it, I heard it. My parents were/are pretty uptight about homosexuals too. I remember when Freddie Mercury died and Elton John was paying tribute to him on telly, and my Dad said "Well, he would, he's another p*** too."
So I'd say it's hard for people who've had an upbringing like that to fully embrace the idea that gay sex is "normal" and "equal", even though we're told we have to now. At least we can safely say that the majority of Tory MPs probably feel the same - more than half voted against gay marriage.
No doubt they were against mixed race marriages too as that was the norm numerous years ago.......you have the chance to make up your own mind without the influence of your historical family. Not sure what you are saying about Conservative MP's as a law is passed through the Lords
Out of all the stupid things that have been said in this thread, you've managed to nip in at the last and pip them all to the post.
Do you ever think that perhaps you and your family are the ones with the problem?
I agree
My Grand Parents and even Great Grand Parents were very pro gay when I was little if anyone made any homophobic or racist remarks and they over heard they let their feelings known and tell the person exactly what they thought of them and their idiotic views
(BTW I often find people who do hold homophobic views are more often than not racist to)
I'm probably part of the 20%. I don't think I'd want to go to a gay wedding because I would not choose to see blokes kissing blokes, women kissing women, holding hands, public displays of affection etc. if I can avoid it. Makes me feel a bit queasy. I'm sure a lot of people would say the same if they were honest about it, but would not be keen to say so because of the inevitable PC backlash nowadays. But 30 years ago that would have been a commonly expressed opinion. I'm kind of pleased my grandparents are deceased now because I think the gay marriage thing would have sadly killed them anyway. And my Uncle Jack too. He was a lovely man in almost every respect, but he used to say horrible things about gay people, calling them p*******. Even I was uncomfortable with that sort of name-calling. I used to hear it in the playground too. F*****s, sausage jockeys, you name it, I heard it. My parents were/are pretty uptight about homosexuals too. I remember when Freddie Mercury died and Elton John was paying tribute to him on telly, and my Dad said "Well, he would, he's another p*** too."
So I'd say it's hard for people who've had an upbringing like that to fully embrace the idea that gay sex is "normal" and "equal", even though we're told we have to now. At least we can safely say that the majority of Tory MPs probably feel the same - more than half voted against gay marriage.
I was brought up in a house and community where that sort of thing actually seems tame to me, and I'm gay.
I fully embrace the idea that sex is normal and equal, regardless of what label the participants assign to themselves, provided they are of legal age and consent.
No doubt they were against mixed race marriages too as that was the norm numerous years ago.......you have the chance to make up your own mind without the influence of your historical family. Not sure what you are saying about Conservative MP's as a law is passed through the Lords
Oddly enough he also posted in the Gary Glitter thread and it came across he as does not think these stars like Gary should be arrested so molesting kids is fine but two adult men loving each other is not.
Oddly enough he also posted in the Gary Glitter thread and it came across he as does not think these stars like Gary should be arrested so molesting kids is fine but two adult men loving each other is not.
Comments
I'll be happy to explain otherwise. The commandments are from the Old Testament which is the Jewish part of the Bible. Keep the Sabbath holy etc refer to the Jewish sabbath which is a Saturday. That's why a lot of Jewish businesses are closed on Saturdays. To Christians the sabbath is a Sunday. Hence in the past a lot of places were closed in the west on Sundays. It's only in more recent years because people demanded the right to go shopping on Sundays that has changed.
Actually I think you are wrong here. In a democracy, arguments are not necessarily backed up with fact and reality. It is part of the democratic process that people are free to hold and express the most bonkers views. In this case, the anti-gay religious standpoint does include a lot of people; the BBC are not giving air time to someone who believes that the earth is flat. It is right imo for them to allow her to say her piece, and pleasing that it comes over poorly, since if anything it is likely to bolster support for same sex marriage having the opposition coming across badly.
It really isn't. It's called "false equivilency"
The BBC does no one any favours by trying to be "balanced" even in issues such as gay marriage, where both sides do not have equally valid arguments.
There's no reasonable, rational or logical argument to support denying people equal rights under the law.
And if it was effectively decided by committee like the removal of the requirement for male circumcision, then aren't you all breaking the word of God and damning yourselves to eternal torment by working or shopping on Saturdays?
http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/f/sundayworship.htm
I'm losing track of who is homophobic and who is christianophobic but I didn't know the answer so looked it up for you.
if you are attempting to reason with a believer, i would strongly advise against it!
its bad for the blood pressure so i hear
Oh I'm a believer? Cool. Did you skim read and make some assumptions there or do you just assign random characteristics to other posters? You must really hate those religious types who are judgemental about others.
Yes, there ARE actually plenty of gay men and women who share my view, though you would never guess it from the BBC Stonewall Broadcasting Corporation.
Depends what I've got on.
One of my closest friends actually shared your view, and to an extent he still does, but he is also someone who believes firmly in equality, and it's actually your Christian leaders that ended up making him join the fight for equal marriage.
They dress it up about tradition yet come out with some absolutely vile and insulting statements, such as the ex-archbishop of Canterbury..
Separate but equal is never the same as equal, and that's why civil partnerships were not enough for me. It created this situation were LGBT people were second class citizens compared to their heterosexual peers, which to me, can never be right.
Here is a post by a law graduate on the differences between marriage and civil partnerships: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=71944850&postcount=3202
didnt even read your posts, i was talking in general.
i, as a fellow homo, also did not give a fig about gay marriage, legalize it or not, didnt bother me in the slightest, i have no intention of marrying ever.
though seeing how much it has p!ssed certain people off, i am starting to revel in it
i really should get out more....
Oh ok. Just that you quoted a response to my post. Still, enjoy your revelling.
That reminds me of something Dara O'Briain said in one of his shows... About the BBC trying to always be 'balanced'... A NASA official talking about the space station...
"And, in the interest of balance, here is Barry who believes the sky is a carpet painted by God"
Attention for herself and her nasty institution. 'You can't just redefine an institution.' Well obviously we can because we just have. What does she think actually happened?
Also, I think this article sums up exactly how serious;y this woman should be taken:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/uk-evangelist-says-tom-daley-is-gay-because-his-father-died-9013365.html
'Tom Daley turned gay because his father died.'
That's so many levels of horrible. Plus she's campaigning to keep homosexuality illegal in Jamaica. And she looks utterly deranged. As my grandmother would say, there's wiser locked up.
So I'd say it's hard for people who've had an upbringing like that to fully embrace the idea that gay sex is "normal" and "equal", even though we're told we have to now. At least we can safely say that the majority of Tory MPs probably feel the same - more than half voted against gay marriage.
Out of all the stupid things that have been said in this thread, you've managed to nip in at the last and pip them all to the post.
Do you ever think that perhaps you and your family are the ones with the problem?
No doubt they were against mixed race marriages too as that was the norm numerous years ago.......you have the chance to make up your own mind without the influence of your historical family. Not sure what you are saying about Conservative MP's as a law is passed through the Lords
I agree
My Grand Parents and even Great Grand Parents were very pro gay when I was little if anyone made any homophobic or racist remarks and they over heard they let their feelings known and tell the person exactly what they thought of them and their idiotic views
(BTW I often find people who do hold homophobic views are more often than not racist to)
I was brought up in a house and community where that sort of thing actually seems tame to me, and I'm gay.
I fully embrace the idea that sex is normal and equal, regardless of what label the participants assign to themselves, provided they are of legal age and consent.
Oddly enough he also posted in the Gary Glitter thread and it came across he as does not think these stars like Gary should be arrested so molesting kids is fine but two adult men loving each other is not.
20% of people are bigoted - sadly not a shocker.
Love is love - the dangly bits are just anatomy.
A Strange Fellow then James *shivers*