Kurt Cobain was a drug addled depressive. He came from a family with a long history of depression and suicide. His uncle had commited suicide by shooting himself too. He had often talked of taking his own life and he'd been brought back from the brink of death with overdose several times.
I agree, It surprises me that anyone that was a Cobain fan can believe this conspiracy theories.
if there is someone that was a good candidate for suicide was him.
Kurt Cobain was a drug addled depressive. He came from a family with a long history of depression and suicide. His uncle had commited suicide by shooting himself too. He had often talked of taking his own life and he'd been brought back from the brink of death with overdose several times.
There are always conspiracy theories when cult figures die. That's the reason they become even bigger cult figures. Jimmy Dean, Marilyn, Elvis, Princess Diana, Jim Morrison, Michael Hutchence. Pick any of them but they all died by their own hand or stupidity. Even Dean. Although the press release said he had been travelling at the EXACT maximum of the speed limit, not over it, he was ticketed for speeding an hour before he died. Every one was wreckless in their excess. Even Princess Di might have lived if she hadn't been arrogant enough to think she didn't need a seat belt. No conspiracies, just ordinary people making mistakes.
And I think that's what people struggle with their deaths. How could their hero be human? How could they make a mistake? But they did.
Personally I'd rather have put a gun in my mouth too than live with Courtney Love. And as for the mentalists that think she killed him she wasn't even in the same state.
I agree. I just think it's a shock when someone dies so unexpectedly (and in such a horrible way) that people have to try and find an explanation.
The suicide note doesn't look dodgy at all to me - the letters are all consistent. I don't think Courtney is by any means an angel but I don't think she had a hand in murdering Kurt. All this 'proof' and 'evidence' the conspiracy theorists have...not enough to re-open the case, or get a conviction, is it?
The only person I ever felt bad for was little Frances. Kurt was a selfish addict and Courtney at best was an untalented leech.
I believe he was suicidal at times in his life and he wasn't happy with Courtney and wanted to divorce her and leave Nirvana, but I don't believe he commited suicide..someone else held the shotgun to his mouth/head but Courtney was clever enough to make sure everyone knew she was nowhere near their house that night..and the police messed up the case and covered up things, not sure why they did.
Courtney was going to lose everything, when he died she got everything and that fame she craved as she was no longer living under his shadow. I think Karma got her in the end though, she's a mess these days.
Funnily enough I always thought Kurt and Courtney, for me anyway, confirmed he killed himself. Everyone in the film who thought otherwise was clearly either out to make money from the situation, or were out of their minds on smack. The most sensible looking person in the movie- Cobains aunt- said she thought he killed himself.
The suicide note doesn't look dodgy at all to me - the letters are all consistent. I don't think Courtney is by any means an angel but I don't think she had a hand in murdering Kurt. All this 'proof' and 'evidence' the conspiracy theorists have...not enough to re-open the case, or get a conviction, is it?
The only person I ever felt bad for was little Frances. Kurt was a selfish addict and Courtney at best was an untalented leech.
Agreed. The real victim in this whole mess is their daughter.
Before Kurt and Courtney got married she made him sign a pre-nup because she thought she would be the more famous of the two, had he divorced her she would have ended up with nothing but child support.
There is another person who died supiciously, Kristen Pfaff. She was a member of Hole and apparently Kurt was quite taken by her. After being clean for a while she had planned on going away with a friend of hers and he slept in the car the night before they left. She died in the bath that night of a heroin overdose.
Also, just an addition to the evidence side... El Duce! He claimed that Courtney paid him to kill Kurt and got hit by a train a week later.
A hell of a lot didn't add up, to be honest I think the police were only too happy to put down as just another junkie death.
Before Kurt and Courtney got married she made him sign a pre-nup because she thought she would be the more famous of the two, had he divorced her she would have ended up with nothing but child support.
There is another person who died supiciously, Kristen Pfaff. She was a member of Hole and apparently Kurt was quite taken by her. After being clean for a while she had planned on going away with a friend of hers and he slept in the car the night before they left. She died in the bath that night of a heroin overdose.
Also, just an addition to the evidence side... El Duce! He claimed that Courtney paid him to kill Kurt and got hit by a train a week later.
A hell of a lot didn't add up, to be honest I think the police were only too happy to put down as just another junkie death.
I dont think there was anything suspicious about Pfaff's death. She died some months after Cobain and after using heroin when she had been clean for some time. She had been taken under Michael Stipe's wing and cleaned up. She completed rehab but as soon as she returned to Seattle fell back on the drugs that thrived in the musicians circles. The body doesn't tolerate the same amounts of heroin when clean as it did addicted. Junkies die all the time it's a fact of life. Famous junkies just make the paper and fans cant accept that having a musical gift doesn't make you immortal.
El Duce made a career out of saying and doing things that shocked. His claims may have been given more credence if he hadn't been known for endorsing rape, appearing on the Jerry Springer show and selling stories about Cobain to the National Enquirer.
I used to believe the whole suicide thing, i mean why not that's what you got told why doubt it. It wasnt till a few years later when i got into Nirvana proper and by chance i stumbled apon the muder theory and to be honest it made more sense that him killing himself.
I dont see why you would start the proceedings to get divorced, change your will, basicly start leaving Nirvana to then just got and kill yourself. I also dont get the idea of injecting 3 times the lethal amount of heroine and then putting away the needle nice and neatly and then shooting yourself. Firstly if he planned on overdosing why did he then shoot himself so when his child then grew up she would have that image as opposed to just falling asleep. Secondly why do both? If he just wanted a hit why take an amount that was likley to kill you if he was planning to shoot himself right after? Sounds handy if you wanted to make sure he never woke up. And last but not least how exactly did he manage this? He would have been sparked out near enough instantly after the hit.
Ignoring all that then how come the guns got no prints on it even though Kurt had bought the gun and carried it already so his prints would be on it right? Nope. So who wiped the prints and why? Allegedly Dylan Carson (Kurt's friend) said while searching for him that he wasnt suicidal and although he was under pressure he was doing alright. Fair play doesnt hold much but still. You only have to read half of Love's behaviour while trying to find Kurt to get an idea of her. While he's missing and apparently suicidal shes ranting at him turning down big money gigs She lies about Cali (the nanny) seeing him at the house and sends the P.I elsewhere, she lies that shes Kurts mom when she alerts about him being missing to the cops and then she puts out fake rumours of an overdoese and she refuses to travel home to help find her suicidal husband. Very caring but least there shes miles out the way eh? Gives an indicator of how high she values money aswell that if she really did believe he was suicidal she didnt care she still wanted the big money from the gigs.
The timings strange aswell. He had just found the cause of his stomach pains which had been a large cause of why he was soo unhappy and was getting help for them and yet he picks now to kill himself. Not saying it's impossible to comprehend but he would have had better reason previously. Someone was running around using his card even though he was dead already. Strange that aswell luckily Courtney told them to keep an eye on the cards activity eh? Suddenly Cali's off aswell not long after Kurt's found dead. The whole thing stinks to high heaven it's seriously a mystery how not alot of people know about the conspiracy if you like side of things. It's an even bigger mystery how the case is still not been reopened.
I watched the documentry about this ages ago and there was one thing someone said that made me think that it wasnt suicide. an 'expert' said that it is impossible to blow your own head off with a shotgun..the barrel is to long and you wouldnt be able to reach the trigger ..the only way you would be able to do it is if you pulled the trigger with your foot..and kurts body was found with his shoes still on. http://potq.cl/wp-content/uploads/kurt_cobain_dead.jpg
I watched a documentary years ago and found Kurt Cobain to be a nice guy but very troubled.I don't know if it was the documentary makers trying to make the documentary more exciting but they did say they were threatened by Courtney's people all the time.
I don't think though she had anything to do with it but I do think things may have been different if Kurt had never met her.
I watched the documentry about this ages ago and there was one thing someone said that made me think that it wasnt suicide. an 'expert' said that it is impossible to blow your own head off with a shotgun..the barrel is to long and you wouldnt be able to reach the trigger ..the only way you would be able to do it is if you pulled the trigger with your foot..and kurts body was found with his shoes still on. http://potq.cl/wp-content/uploads/kurt_cobain_dead.jpg
To me, that has always been the crucial anomaly in this whole case, even without all the Courtney rumours. The fact that it would have been impossible for him to have pulled the trigger clearly indicates a more sinister ending for Cobain.
I am not one to believe in death conspiracies but Kurt's supposed suicide has always left many unanwsered questions for me to believe it was actually a sucide.
We all know Kurt was a troubled (yet very talented) young man but I don't believe he decided to blow his own head off.
If it was a murder that was made to look like a suicide, then they didn't do a very good job of it! I'd have thought that making sure his prints were on the gun that killed him would have been the first thing the murderer would have done when arranging the scene. The fact that his prints are missing, to me, is no evidence at all.
The suicide note looks like the same handwriting too, just written at a different time and in a different state of mind. The first part looks reasonably rational, the last few sentences look scribbled in a hurry, which is what you'd expect from someone who's just snapped and wants to kill themselves.
There are other things that don't add up but I don't think either of those are evidence of murder.
The skank[Courtney] got him high as a mofo on heroin, shot him in the head and tried to sort it so it looked like suicide, the gun was to long for him to pull the trigger unless her used his toes but his boots where on. Kurt wrote all of her good songs of her one good album and probably some of her nxt one.
Even Courteys dad thinks she did it. The only people who think Kurt killed himself are people who a]don't care or b] never bothered to read or listen to police reports.
i don't tend to believe conspiracies, but it doesn' take much of a imagination/leap of logic or suspicion to believe Courtney would and indead did kill kurt.
End of the day he COULDN'T of pulled the trigger, so he DIDN'T shoot himself that simple folks!
The skank[Courtney] got him high as a mofo on heroin, shot him in the head and tried to sort it so it looked like suicide, the gun was to long for him to pull the trigger unless her used his toes but his boots where on. Kurt wrote all of her good songs of her one good album and probably some of her nxt one.
Even Courteys dad thinks she did it. The only people who think Kurt killed himself are people who a]don't care or b] never bothered to read or listen to police reports.
i don't tend to believe conspiracies, but it doesn' take much of a imagination/leap of logic or suspicion to believe Courtney would and indead did kill kurt.
End of the day he COULDN'T of pulled the trigger, so he DIDN'T shoot himself that simple folks!
Wow, you should go to the police with all your airtight fa:rolleyes:cts!
The skank[Courtney] got him high as a mofo on heroin, shot him in the head and tried to sort it so it looked like suicide, the gun was to long for him to pull the trigger unless her used his toes but his boots where on. Kurt wrote all of her good songs of her one good album and probably some of her nxt one.
Even Courteys dad thinks she did it. The only people who think Kurt killed himself are people who a]don't care or b] never bothered to read or listen to police reports.
i don't tend to believe conspiracies, but it doesn' take much of a imagination/leap of logic or suspicion to believe Courtney would and indead did kill kurt.
End of the day he COULDN'T of pulled the trigger, so he DIDN'T shoot himself that simple folks!
You are over looking the tiniest flaw in your scenario. Love was hundreds of miles away in front of hundreds of people. A FACT!
Cobaincase.com:
Cobain's heroin, (morphine), blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter. This would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin, three times a lethal dose, even for a hardcore heroin addict! The drug Diazepam, was also found in Cobain's blood system.
1. IF Cobain injected three times a lethal dose of heroin, COULD he then pick up a shotgun and shoot himself? Wouldn't he have been immediately incapacitated?
Based on the heroin, (morphine), blood levels found in Cobain's body, preliminary research indicates Kurt Cobain would have been almost immediately incapacitated. He could not have picked up that shotgun. He could not have pulled that trigger!
Cobaincase.com:
Cobain's heroin, (morphine), blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter. This would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin, three times a lethal dose, even for a hardcore heroin addict! The drug Diazepam, was also found in Cobain's blood system.
1. IF Cobain injected three times a lethal dose of heroin, COULD he then pick up a shotgun and shoot himself? Wouldn't he have been immediately incapacitated?
Based on the heroin, (morphine), blood levels found in Cobain's body, preliminary research indicates Kurt Cobain would have been almost immediately incapacitated. He could not have picked up that shotgun. He could not have pulled that trigger!
Haha.
A Private Investigator said the levels meant he couldn't shoot himself not a medically qualified commentator.
From Wiki...
"Grant cites a figure published in an April 14, 1994, article by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, purportedly from the official toxicology report, which claimed, "the level of heroin in Cobain's bloodstream was 1.52 milligrams per litre."[8] Grant argues that Cobain could not have injected himself with such a dose and still have been able to pull the trigger.[9]
However, several different studies on heroin use have noted the difficulty in pinpointing the level of heroin that an addict can tolerate. In a 2004 story, Dateline NBC questioned five medical examiners about the figure from the toxicology report. Two of them noted the possibility that Cobain could have built up enough of a tolerance through repeated usage to have been able to pull the trigger himself, while the three others held that the information was inconclusive.[10]"
Cobaincase.com is a site run by that very same PI, a site and a theory he uses as a money spinner. Therefor I'm not sure how the rantings of a private investigator constitute fact?
Comments
I agree, It surprises me that anyone that was a Cobain fan can believe this conspiracy theories.
if there is someone that was a good candidate for suicide was him.
I agree. I just think it's a shock when someone dies so unexpectedly (and in such a horrible way) that people have to try and find an explanation.
The only person I ever felt bad for was little Frances. Kurt was a selfish addict and Courtney at best was an untalented leech.
Funnily enough I always thought Kurt and Courtney, for me anyway, confirmed he killed himself. Everyone in the film who thought otherwise was clearly either out to make money from the situation, or were out of their minds on smack. The most sensible looking person in the movie- Cobains aunt- said she thought he killed himself.
Agreed. The real victim in this whole mess is their daughter.
Before Kurt and Courtney got married she made him sign a pre-nup because she thought she would be the more famous of the two, had he divorced her she would have ended up with nothing but child support.
There is another person who died supiciously, Kristen Pfaff. She was a member of Hole and apparently Kurt was quite taken by her. After being clean for a while she had planned on going away with a friend of hers and he slept in the car the night before they left. She died in the bath that night of a heroin overdose.
Also, just an addition to the evidence side... El Duce! He claimed that Courtney paid him to kill Kurt and got hit by a train a week later.
A hell of a lot didn't add up, to be honest I think the police were only too happy to put down as just another junkie death.
I dont think there was anything suspicious about Pfaff's death. She died some months after Cobain and after using heroin when she had been clean for some time. She had been taken under Michael Stipe's wing and cleaned up. She completed rehab but as soon as she returned to Seattle fell back on the drugs that thrived in the musicians circles. The body doesn't tolerate the same amounts of heroin when clean as it did addicted. Junkies die all the time it's a fact of life. Famous junkies just make the paper and fans cant accept that having a musical gift doesn't make you immortal.
El Duce made a career out of saying and doing things that shocked. His claims may have been given more credence if he hadn't been known for endorsing rape, appearing on the Jerry Springer show and selling stories about Cobain to the National Enquirer.
I used to believe the whole suicide thing, i mean why not that's what you got told why doubt it. It wasnt till a few years later when i got into Nirvana proper and by chance i stumbled apon the muder theory and to be honest it made more sense that him killing himself.
I dont see why you would start the proceedings to get divorced, change your will, basicly start leaving Nirvana to then just got and kill yourself. I also dont get the idea of injecting 3 times the lethal amount of heroine and then putting away the needle nice and neatly and then shooting yourself. Firstly if he planned on overdosing why did he then shoot himself so when his child then grew up she would have that image as opposed to just falling asleep. Secondly why do both? If he just wanted a hit why take an amount that was likley to kill you if he was planning to shoot himself right after? Sounds handy if you wanted to make sure he never woke up. And last but not least how exactly did he manage this? He would have been sparked out near enough instantly after the hit.
Ignoring all that then how come the guns got no prints on it even though Kurt had bought the gun and carried it already so his prints would be on it right? Nope. So who wiped the prints and why? Allegedly Dylan Carson (Kurt's friend) said while searching for him that he wasnt suicidal and although he was under pressure he was doing alright. Fair play doesnt hold much but still. You only have to read half of Love's behaviour while trying to find Kurt to get an idea of her. While he's missing and apparently suicidal shes ranting at him turning down big money gigs
The timings strange aswell. He had just found the cause of his stomach pains which had been a large cause of why he was soo unhappy and was getting help for them and yet he picks now to kill himself. Not saying it's impossible to comprehend but he would have had better reason previously. Someone was running around using his card even though he was dead already. Strange that aswell luckily Courtney told them to keep an eye on the cards activity eh? Suddenly Cali's off aswell not long after Kurt's found dead. The whole thing stinks to high heaven it's seriously a mystery how not alot of people know about the conspiracy if you like side of things. It's an even bigger mystery how the case is still not been reopened.
http://potq.cl/wp-content/uploads/kurt_cobain_dead.jpg
I don't think though she had anything to do with it but I do think things may have been different if Kurt had never met her.
To me, that has always been the crucial anomaly in this whole case, even without all the Courtney rumours. The fact that it would have been impossible for him to have pulled the trigger clearly indicates a more sinister ending for Cobain.
We all know Kurt was a troubled (yet very talented) young man but I don't believe he decided to blow his own head off.
The suicide note looks like the same handwriting too, just written at a different time and in a different state of mind. The first part looks reasonably rational, the last few sentences look scribbled in a hurry, which is what you'd expect from someone who's just snapped and wants to kill themselves.
There are other things that don't add up but I don't think either of those are evidence of murder.
Even Courteys dad thinks she did it. The only people who think Kurt killed himself are people who a]don't care or b] never bothered to read or listen to police reports.
i don't tend to believe conspiracies, but it doesn' take much of a imagination/leap of logic or suspicion to believe Courtney would and indead did kill kurt.
End of the day he COULDN'T of pulled the trigger, so he DIDN'T shoot himself that simple folks!
On what basis?
It's been proven he couldn't have pulled the trigger.
Wow, you should go to the police with all your airtight fa:rolleyes:cts!
No it hasn't.
You are over looking the tiniest flaw in your scenario. Love was hundreds of miles away in front of hundreds of people. A FACT!
yes the investigation was short lived and botched but theres one piece of evidence that most people have failed to look at properly but....
Finger prints can be wiped off surfaces by human sweat...proven fact.
Cobaincase.com:
Cobain's heroin, (morphine), blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter. This would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin, three times a lethal dose, even for a hardcore heroin addict! The drug Diazepam, was also found in Cobain's blood system.
1. IF Cobain injected three times a lethal dose of heroin, COULD he then pick up a shotgun and shoot himself? Wouldn't he have been immediately incapacitated?
Based on the heroin, (morphine), blood levels found in Cobain's body, preliminary research indicates Kurt Cobain would have been almost immediately incapacitated. He could not have picked up that shotgun. He could not have pulled that trigger!
Haha.
A Private Investigator said the levels meant he couldn't shoot himself not a medically qualified commentator.
From Wiki...
"Grant cites a figure published in an April 14, 1994, article by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, purportedly from the official toxicology report, which claimed, "the level of heroin in Cobain's bloodstream was 1.52 milligrams per litre."[8] Grant argues that Cobain could not have injected himself with such a dose and still have been able to pull the trigger.[9]
However, several different studies on heroin use have noted the difficulty in pinpointing the level of heroin that an addict can tolerate. In a 2004 story, Dateline NBC questioned five medical examiners about the figure from the toxicology report. Two of them noted the possibility that Cobain could have built up enough of a tolerance through repeated usage to have been able to pull the trigger himself, while the three others held that the information was inconclusive.[10]"
Cobaincase.com is a site run by that very same PI, a site and a theory he uses as a money spinner. Therefor I'm not sure how the rantings of a private investigator constitute fact?