Respect?
So this is simply an assumed schedule, based upon little more than what used to happen rather than what the BBC has actually stated. In my mind, such assumed schedules are next to useless, as they are based on nothing more than personal opinions and hopes.
In truth, the BBC has never promised a specific or set number of episodes of DW each year. And as they are the ones making the episodes, as they are the ones planning the transmission dates, and as they are the ones in direct contact with the production team, my money is on their judgement as to what they wish to air each year as opposed to some illusory entitlement based upon what used to happen.
Remember the old investment maxim - past performance is not a guide to future returns. Well, a similar one applies here - Past scheduling is not a guide to future programming.
Y'see, that's the thing. Viewers actually have been promised no reduction in so many words. In an interview for The Daily Beast in August 2011, Moffat had this to say in response to concerns that the series length was being reduced
“Do you think the BBC would really let that happen? With an average audience of 10 million?...Doctor Who’s international profile is huge. It’s never been more successful. You’re not going to reduce a show like this. The opposite is going to happen, in fact.”
Anybody would reasonably have been reassured that the episode rate would not be reduced, but in fact would increase. In fact, that quote has been banded about for over a year by fans in order to allay fears that the anniversary year would merely consist of the tail end of season 7, and two specials - but here we are! And what's more, throughout all this time, all we've had is misleading statements from Moffat claiming that any such idea was "absolute nonsense", and all the other "taking over television" spin.
Note that this is the much exulted 50th anniversary year of the series, and they'll be shooting less than they did in the gap year. There's still been no announcement or explanation why, and you wonder why fans are feeling a bit let down?
Well whether it's labelled series 7 or 8 I can't believe people are saying it doesn't make a difference. It makes a huge difference.
7 and 8 over two years would be 26 episodes and 2 christmas specials over 2012/2013 but we're getting 13 regular episodes, 2 christmas specials and an anniversary special.
So 16 episodes compared to the usual 28.
Personally, I don't particularly care about the less episodes as long as I enjoy them, but there is definitely a huge cutback in the amount.
Whether that's BBC budget cuts or Steven Moffat struggling with the workload I don't know.
I agree with this. Whichever way the BBC try to call it, we have had series 7 split over 2 years. Now why can't they just be open and honest (Oh I forgot, its the BBC) and admit that they have cut back on the number of Dr Who's they are going to produce. If series 7 had been split within the same year, as series 6 was, then I believe, most would accept that, but to split it over 2 different years is just IMO cheating the fans and the viewers. Why are they doing this ? I don't know, perhaps as some have suggested, being show runner on two major series (Who and Sherlock) is too much for S.M. in which case he should give one up.
In truth, the BBC has never promised a specific or set number of episodes of DW each year. And as they are the ones making the episodes, as they are the ones planning the transmission dates, and as they are the ones in direct contact with the production team, my money is on their judgement as to what they wish to air each year as opposed to some illusory entitlement based upon what used to happen.
Well there is an entitlement to some extent. We fund the BBC so many people feel they have a right to vent frustration with the corporation.
In terms of promises, it's actually Steven Moffat that made the comments and the BBC denied the reports from Private Eye stating they'd be a reduced number of episodes. Collectively they haven't been honest and that's why people are annoyed about it. Sometimes a bit of honesty goes a long long way.
Why are so many people defending the BBC over this ? I would have thought that any fan of the show would be angry at the way we have had less episodes, divided series and been led down the garden path by faceless men in suits. I don't blame the production team for this as I honestly believe that they all put 110 % into making the show, but we have been mucked about with by those in charge. I don't hold with the view as stated by some that we should be pleased to have any Dr Who on screen and that we shouldn't complain. Dr Who is a MASSIVE money maker for the BBC, second only I believe to Top Gear, so why on earth are they mucking about with it.
Y'see, that's the thing. Viewers actually have been promised no reduction in so many words. In an interview for The Daily Beast in August 2011, Moffat had this to say in response to concerns that the series length was being reduced
“Do you think the BBC would really let that happen? With an average audience of 10 million?...Doctor Who’s international profile is huge. It’s never been more successful. You’re not going to reduce a show like this. The opposite is going to happen, in fact.”
Anybody would reasonably have been reassured that the episode rate would not be reduced, but in fact would increase. In fact, that quote has been banded about for over a year by fans in order to allay fears that the anniversary year would merely consist of the tail end of season 7, and two specials - but here we are! And what's more, throughout all this time, all we've had is misleading statements from Moffat claiming that any such idea was "absolute nonsense", and all the other "taking over television" spin.
And in post 68 you also document what happened with scripts ..... many a slip 'twixt cup & lip. writing schedules change, as do shooting schedules and post-production schedules. That's the nature of programme-making.
Remember a couple of Christmases ago when The Royle Family was said to be the highlight of that Christmas evening? And the fact that it simply did not happen (the writers had not come up with the script in time)?
As for Moff - I'm actually tiring of seeing that being quoted over and over again - yes he was wrong to say what he did, yes it did not happen how he said it would. But at the same time he did not give any number, or any specific timeframe - he could have been talking over three months, six months, twelve months, two years, five years (I say that on the basis that many have, in the past, taken things rather too literally and have filled in some blanks when perhaps they should not have done so)
He not the man ultimately responsible for what airs when, as as true as I sit here now, no-one at the BBC (within the hierarchy of the BBC rather that the DW production team) has ever stated any particular future episode count over a specific period of time, so that fans can place tick marks against them for reference.
That's my take on things anyway. My opinion. Other opinions are of course available (and will no doubt be posted).
As a postscript we, the LF-payers, are not "entitled" to anything specific other than good quality programming that is made for everyone, regardless of age or taste. the fact that DW is still in production, that it has far better SFX than ever before, that it's 45 mins as opposed to 25/30 mins, that it is in HD and 5.1 surround, and that it is released on blu-ray is enough for me (many other programmes don't have such luxuries, especially blu-ray releases in the UK when the same programme is available on blu-ray in nthe States).
I am a DW fan, but I don't feel cheated or lied to, I don't feel conned. . I am very much laid back, what will be will be. it's only a TV programme after all. My blood pressure is far more important for me to be worried, angry or hurt about this. What will be will be, and I am long past hanging on the every word of some executive or producer who promises the earth - from my experience you always end up disappointed.
Im a newbie from 2005 and I agree with you,we had a 13 episode series and then those Tennant specials and now we have these 6 episode series that feel like they dont link together.
Im a newbie from 2005 and I agree with you,we had a 13 episode series and then those Tennant specials and now we have these 6 episode series that feel like they dont link together.
Okay, the only thing I have a problem with is the misuse of Moffat's "absolute nonsense" and "taking over television" quotes.
Moffat said the idea of the anniversary consisting of "only one 60 minute special is absolute nonsense" -- he'd know more about that than we do. Whether he means the special is longer than 60 minutes or whether he's referring to something other than the anniversary special, he'd be right.
Taking over television -- we have a special, a docu drama about the creation of the show, a proms programme, we're likely to see something about the history of the show, not to mention other tv tie ins from other programmes such as the pointless special aired earlier this year, (and please BBC make some special idents for the anniversary day, that would make brilliant!) --- plus who knows what else.
Okay, the only thing I have a problem with is the misuse of Moffat's "absolute nonsense" and "taking over television" quotes.
Moffat said the idea of the anniversary consisting of "only one 60 minute special is absolute nonsense" -- he'd know more about that than we do. Whether he means the special is longer than 60 minutes or whether he's referring to something other than the anniversary special, he'd be right.
Taking over television -- we have a special, a docu drama about the creation of the show, a proms programme, we're likely to see something about the history of the show, not to mention other tv tie ins from other programmes such as the pointless special aired earlier this year, (and please BBC make some special idents for the anniversary day, that would make brilliant!) --- plus who knows what else.
But it's not misuse of the quotes. Moffat knew full well that the reaction to the accidental reveal of the anniversary special being a singleton episode was surprise among the very many people who had been hoping for multiple episodes and/or series 8. We all already KNEW that the anniversary was going to have other non-episode things. So for Moffat to contradict the "single episode" reveal by claiming it was "absolute nonsense", it is natural that people thought he was vehemently saying that the mere thought of it being a single episode was "nonsense" - ie no basis in truth whatsoever.
Again, he misleads and misdirects by use of hyperbole. If he intended to honestly convey "The special is going to be one episode lasting at least an hour - maybe longer, but we've got loads of other brilliant things too" - then couldn't he have just, you know, said so? But instead of nice simple easy to interprete plain English we get this rather silly over the top denunciation of "absolute nonsense". Which, as with the Private Eye news actually turns out to be "very very close to what is actually happening".
Maybe Moffat doesn't know what the phrase "absolute nonsense" means.
The Worldwide toy fair poster was fair and accurate. The anniversary year will include the things it listed. But is not limited to just that. e.g. Christmas special. Not "absolute nonsense" at all. " Accurate" is actually the case.
Im a newbie from 2005 and I agree with you,we had a 13 episode series and then those Tennant specials and now we have these 6 episode series that feel like they dont link together.
Even the title sequence for both parts is different. Also, in "Part 2", we have a new Tardis and new companion. It feels like a separate series, especially since there is a Christmas Special that splits the series down the middle.
Yes output was reduced temporarily in 2009 but if it kept the writers & actors fresh and increased the general viewers (rather than hardcore fandom) appetite for/interest in Who up, then it was a good move.
Likewise yes we've had half the number of episodes in 2013 with the way series 6&7 panned out with the breaks, but we do get a celebratory 50th anniversary episode which I imagine takes as much production resource as several standard episodes combined. So unless folks don't mind a harf-arsed full season in 2013 AND a 50th anniversary episode, then this again was a good move.
My sense of entitlement over 13+1 episodes per year would only kick in if the BBC did this every single year. Then I'd feel as conned as macmam11 does. But we're not there yet.
The truth is always somewhere in between. As I recall it, there were of course people being too optimistic, hoping that we would get two full series, but what I remember most is that neither of those viewpoints were substantiated - one or other of them was going to turn out to be correct, but nothing had be confirmed beyond rumours.
As always, there are several strands to the conversation. I have always said that given that none of us know for sure, all any of us can do is speculate given the information available. I tend to build up a picture of people who tend to keep getting things right and give them more credence than those who tend to guess less effectively. The people saying "we can't possibly know either way" were most usually those who were egging the optimists on with their expectations; Expectations based on flimsy guesswork and outright statements that there can't possibly be any truth in what Private Eye said and that Private Eye were telling a pack of complete lies from beginning to end. Despite the fact that the main thrust of the story was confirmed as almost entirely accurate immediately by the BBC.
I've always said "what appears to be most likely". I also kept an open mind about, for example, the possibility of series 8 episodes in 2013 or multiple specials. But I grounded myself in the actual information available. Once it became obvious (quite early) that there was no realistic prospect of series 8 in 2013, this confirmed to me that I had indeed interpreted the information more correctly than the "optimists".
Why did I remain cautious? Because the BBC officially told us via an official press release that fourteen episodes were planned. They went beyond Private Eye's news (which was about 2012 only) and volunteered to us the first glimpse of a possible 2013 schedule. Cohen told us to expect a handful of those in 2012. The remainder in 2013, Christmas day specials and some anniversary related things.
So, despite keeping an open mind, I always kept in mind that regardless of the various vague, obtuse and tetchy comments from Moffat, the actual hard information was 2012/2013=14+anniversary+christmas 2013.
I treated Moffat's comments with less credibility than others because of a track record of those being a less helpful guide to actual outcomes. And even Moffat said that his early bluster about the series 6 split was not actually true.
I would say the difference was that the plan in 2008/09 was always to have a small number of episodes. They could make positive PR statements because the decision to save money and give the series a breather had been made much further in advance.
I do recall there being some doomsayers back then though too, telling us that it meant the BBC were tired of the series and trying to phase it out. Some things never change.
The BBC knew by June 2011 at the very latest that 2012 would be a small number of episodes. They didn't want to talk about it. When Private Eye said so, their initial instinct was to misdirect people with their "14 episodes all starring Matt" press release. Which they and Cohen then had to correct with "not a full run in 2012." Confirming the main point of the Private Eye piece.
They may not have known for sure in June 2011 that the 2013 episodes were going to have new theme, titles, Doctor costume, tardis set, different companion and different story arc. But they did know well in advance of 2013 that this would be the case. Yet still they carried on with comments about "a tiny delay so that we can shift the series to autumn". etc. Which was nonsense.
I agree that there have been behind the scenes issues that affected the production of series 7 as production went on. And that they wouldn't have known about these problems in June 2011. But they did know enough to have communicated the main issues concerning fans better than they did. If they had wanted to.
There will always be doomsayers. I was always careful to say from the outset that I thought the issues surrounding series 7 were somewhat isolated to that series and not indicative of the BBC withdrawing support from the show. But it didn't seem to matter how carefully one said this, the extreme wing of the Happiness Patrol interpreted anything other than "2013=twenty episodes at least" guesses as the work of dangerous evil people.
Yes output was reduced temporarily in 2009 but if it kept the writers & actors fresh and increased the general viewers (rather than hardcore fandom) appetite for/interest in Who up, then it was a good move.
Likewise yes we've had half the number of episodes in 2013 with the way series 6&7 panned out with the breaks, but we do get a celebratory 50th anniversary episode which I imagine takes as much production resource as several standard episodes combined. So unless folks don't mind a harf-arsed full season in 2013 AND a 50th anniversary episode, then this again was a good move.
My sense of entitlement over 13+1 episodes per year would only kick in if the BBC did this every single year. Then I'd feel as conned as macmam11 does. But we're not there yet.
I could understand that saving money for the 2013 anniversary special episode and related items might have led to a reduction in regular episodes broadcast in 2013. I'm not so sure how any of that relates to the reduction in regular episodes broadcast in 2012? Unless the anniversary episode is costing something in the region of twelve or thirteen regular episodes?
We await news about the filming and possible broadcast schedule of series 8. Jenna said there could be quite a wait based on key people being busy with the anniversary things. Which hints at no filming until December 2013 or later. We have no firm information or, indeed, any hints as to how many episodes will be broadcast in 2014.
Does anyone know if series 8 has been officially commissioned yet? I've heard talk about plans but no official announcement yet. It will be interesting if there is no confirmation by the time we get to the end of this series because I think that will be the first time that's happened since NuWho began.
Does anyone know if series 8 has been officially commissioned yet? I've heard talk about plans but no official announcement yet. It will be interesting if there is no confirmation by the time we get to the end of this series because I think that will be the first time that's happened since NuWho began.
This is a great point.
The fact that they have been slow to confirm this makes me think that there won't actually be a Series 8.
This is what makes me think that they're planning on permanently moving to a "Specials" format.
The fact that they have been slow to confirm this makes me think that there won't actually be a Series 8.
This is what makes me think that they're planning on permanently moving to a "Specials" format.
Why would they confirm anything at this stage? Plenty of time to do that, regardless of previous precedents.
After all, the BBC aired Line of Duty last June, and only confirmed a second series in the last week.
Remember, the BBC landscape has changed significantly over the past year or so with DQF and various management structural and procedural changes - those changes are ongoing. So what they did in terms of announcements in previous years might not be what they will be doing in the future.
Why would they confirm anything at this stage? Plenty of time to do that, regardless of previous precedents.
After all, the BBC aired Line of Duty last June, and only confirmed a second series in the last week.
Remember, the BBC landscape has changed significantly over the past year or so with DQF and various management structural and procedural changes - those changes are ongoing. So what they did in terms of announcements in previous years might not be what they will be doing in the future.
Sorry I didn't mean to turn into a doommonger, what I meant was that we will hopefully have a clearer idea of what format series 8 will take and when it will air once it's been commissioned (which will of course happen, hopefully soon).
Sorry I didn't mean to turn into a doommonger, what I meant was that we will hopefully have a clearer idea of what format series 8 will take and when it will air once it's been commissioned (which will of course happen, hopefully soon).
Sorry I didn't mean to turn into a doommonger, what I meant was that we will hopefully have a clearer idea of what format series 8 will take and when it will air once it's been commissioned (which will of course happen, hopefully soon).
I hope I'm wrong and that they do proceed with a Series 8 (I have my doubts).
In any case, I think a lot of fans would appreciate if they could be more open what their plans are for the show. Too often fans of British TV series are never sure once it finishes when a new series will broadcast, if at all.
I hope I'm wrong and that they do proceed with a Series 8 (I have my doubts).
In any case, I think a lot of fans would appreciate if they could be more open what their plans are for the show. Too often fans of British TV series are never sure once it finishes when a new series will broadcast, if at all.
Yep, it would certainly be nice I am cautiously optimistic that series 8 will begin airing at some point next year, or optimistically cautious, either way there is some optimism and caution mixed in there
And in post 68 you also document what happened with scripts ..... many a slip 'twixt cup & lip. writing schedules change, as do shooting schedules and post-production schedules. That's the nature of programme-making.
That post was about what happened in season 7in 2011-2012, and the poor communication and (mis-)management of news. Why the dearth of episodes being filmed in 2013, though? Caro Skinner claimed that they'd hit 2013, the anniversary year pretty hard, and with season 7, it would form practically two years of production. Since then we've learnt that there would be a 4 month break, then the anniversary special, then possibly another break, and once again, silence from everyone concerned. Reading interviews with Moffat, it's like there's an elephant in the room. That interview with Ed Straddling at Galaxy One obviously had preset terms of reference, set by Moffat, and Doctor Who magazine under Tom Spillsbury is more like Pravda these days!
Remember a couple of Christmases ago when The Royle Family was said to be the highlight of that Christmas evening? And the fact that it simply did not happen (the writers had not come up with the script in time)?
As for Moff - I'm actually tiring of seeing that being quoted over and over again - yes he was wrong to say what he did, yes it did not happen how he said it would. But at the same time he did not give any number, or any specific timeframe - he could have been talking over three months, six months, twelve months, two years, five years (I say that on the basis that many have, in the past, taken things rather too literally and have filled in some blanks when perhaps they should not have done so)
I understand the argument that when he said all of that, it might well indeed have been the plan. But at no point did he ever come clean and admit that we weren't getting a split season even, let alone a reduction.
I was at the official convention in Cardiff in March. Moffat said of series 7; It's definitely not a split season. It's a continuous run of 13 episodes, and all we are doing is straddling Christmas.
Look how true that turned out! - I suspect he knew by then that this was nonsense, since we subsequently discovered that the series 7 schedule was always planned to continue to late November which would have made straddling Christmas pretty tight.
And, though it's not come to pass yet, you can see the same thing happening for 2013. No attempt is being made to disassociate or play down all the promises made last year, more the opposite.
If you had promised to take a child to the zoo, then it subsequently became impossible, would you continue to reinforce the promise, and allowing the pretence right up until the morning of the zoo visit, and then refuse to talk about it and hope the kid didn't notice? You can't be surprised by feelings of disappointment would then be far worse.
He not the man ultimately responsible for what airs when, as as true as I sit here now, no-one at the BBC (within the hierarchy of the BBC rather that the DW production team) has ever stated any particular future episode count over a specific period of time, so that fans can place tick marks against them for reference.
That's my take on things anyway. My opinion. Other opinions are of course available (and will no doubt be posted).
While he's not always entirely responsible for airing, he is responsible for it not airing regularly. The best scheduling in the world cannot schedule something that hasn't been produced.
As a postscript we, the LF-payers, are not "entitled" to anything specific other than good quality programming that is made for everyone, regardless of age or taste. the fact that DW is still in production, that it has far better SFX than ever before, that it's 45 mins as opposed to 25/30 mins, that it is in HD and 5.1 surround, and that it is released on blu-ray is enough for me (many other programmes don't have such luxuries, especially blu-ray releases in the UK when the same programme is available on blu-ray in nthe States).
I am a DW fan, but I don't feel cheated or lied to, I don't feel conned. . I am very much laid back, what will be will be. it's only a TV programme after all. My blood pressure is far more important for me to be worried, angry or hurt about this. What will be will be, and I am long past hanging on the every word of some executive or producer who promises the earth - from my experience you always end up disappointed.
I find it frustrating that that old chestnut "sense of entitlement" is trotted out immediately after any exclamation of disappointment. I don't feel a sense of entitlement for anything, but I *do* feel disappointed. And what's worse, is that the powers that be aren't even decent enough to acknowledge that misleading statements were made, false expectations were set. None of this has anything to do with "entitlement".
I also do find frustrating that attitude of "at least it's not as bad as it could be, they're making some new episodes" Yes, the series hasn't been cancelled, all copies in the archives haven't been wiped. Worse still, some people haven't got shoes on their feet, and even worse again, people are starving in Africa. Constantly bringing up the fact that things could always be worse to try and pretend everything's currently rosey with Doctor Who is pretty annoying.
Yes,we're so being conned because we're obviously paying money for Doctor Who specifically to be produced through the license fee and nothing else :rolleyes:
I could understand that saving money for the 2013 anniversary special episode and related items might have led to a reduction in regular episodes broadcast in 2013. I'm not so sure how any of that relates to the reduction in regular episodes broadcast in 2012? Unless the anniversary episode is costing something in the region of twelve or thirteen regular episodes?
I'd see resource and cost of production as more than just the money involved. There's the time and effort a team of writers need to put together a quality package as opposed to churning out something to a deadline; then there's the actor's committment to the production and I understand Who needs an almost year round committment from Matt Smith (just something I read on this forum once).
So easing off a bit from 2012 and effectively a losing 1 series between 2012/2013 to keep things fresh and make a cracking anniversary episode makes sense.
It would be nice if they were just honest about that rather than create spin and pretend there's no drop in output. And if that trend continues into 2014 then I'd get pi$$y.
Comments
Y'see, that's the thing. Viewers actually have been promised no reduction in so many words. In an interview for The Daily Beast in August 2011, Moffat had this to say in response to concerns that the series length was being reduced
“Do you think the BBC would really let that happen? With an average audience of 10 million?...Doctor Who’s international profile is huge. It’s never been more successful. You’re not going to reduce a show like this. The opposite is going to happen, in fact.”
Anybody would reasonably have been reassured that the episode rate would not be reduced, but in fact would increase. In fact, that quote has been banded about for over a year by fans in order to allay fears that the anniversary year would merely consist of the tail end of season 7, and two specials - but here we are! And what's more, throughout all this time, all we've had is misleading statements from Moffat claiming that any such idea was "absolute nonsense", and all the other "taking over television" spin.
Note that this is the much exulted 50th anniversary year of the series, and they'll be shooting less than they did in the gap year. There's still been no announcement or explanation why, and you wonder why fans are feeling a bit let down?
I agree with this. Whichever way the BBC try to call it, we have had series 7 split over 2 years. Now why can't they just be open and honest (Oh I forgot, its the BBC) and admit that they have cut back on the number of Dr Who's they are going to produce. If series 7 had been split within the same year, as series 6 was, then I believe, most would accept that, but to split it over 2 different years is just IMO cheating the fans and the viewers. Why are they doing this ? I don't know, perhaps as some have suggested, being show runner on two major series (Who and Sherlock) is too much for S.M. in which case he should give one up.
Well there is an entitlement to some extent. We fund the BBC so many people feel they have a right to vent frustration with the corporation.
In terms of promises, it's actually Steven Moffat that made the comments and the BBC denied the reports from Private Eye stating they'd be a reduced number of episodes. Collectively they haven't been honest and that's why people are annoyed about it. Sometimes a bit of honesty goes a long long way.
Remember a couple of Christmases ago when The Royle Family was said to be the highlight of that Christmas evening? And the fact that it simply did not happen (the writers had not come up with the script in time)?
As for Moff - I'm actually tiring of seeing that being quoted over and over again - yes he was wrong to say what he did, yes it did not happen how he said it would. But at the same time he did not give any number, or any specific timeframe - he could have been talking over three months, six months, twelve months, two years, five years (I say that on the basis that many have, in the past, taken things rather too literally and have filled in some blanks when perhaps they should not have done so)
He not the man ultimately responsible for what airs when, as as true as I sit here now, no-one at the BBC (within the hierarchy of the BBC rather that the DW production team) has ever stated any particular future episode count over a specific period of time, so that fans can place tick marks against them for reference.
That's my take on things anyway. My opinion. Other opinions are of course available (and will no doubt be posted).
As a postscript we, the LF-payers, are not "entitled" to anything specific other than good quality programming that is made for everyone, regardless of age or taste. the fact that DW is still in production, that it has far better SFX than ever before, that it's 45 mins as opposed to 25/30 mins, that it is in HD and 5.1 surround, and that it is released on blu-ray is enough for me (many other programmes don't have such luxuries, especially blu-ray releases in the UK when the same programme is available on blu-ray in nthe States).
I am a DW fan, but I don't feel cheated or lied to, I don't feel conned. . I am very much laid back, what will be will be. it's only a TV programme after all. My blood pressure is far more important for me to be worried, angry or hurt about this. What will be will be, and I am long past hanging on the every word of some executive or producer who promises the earth - from my experience you always end up disappointed.
Moffat said the idea of the anniversary consisting of "only one 60 minute special is absolute nonsense" -- he'd know more about that than we do. Whether he means the special is longer than 60 minutes or whether he's referring to something other than the anniversary special, he'd be right.
Taking over television -- we have a special, a docu drama about the creation of the show, a proms programme, we're likely to see something about the history of the show, not to mention other tv tie ins from other programmes such as the pointless special aired earlier this year, (and please BBC make some special idents for the anniversary day, that would make brilliant!) --- plus who knows what else.
But it's not misuse of the quotes. Moffat knew full well that the reaction to the accidental reveal of the anniversary special being a singleton episode was surprise among the very many people who had been hoping for multiple episodes and/or series 8. We all already KNEW that the anniversary was going to have other non-episode things. So for Moffat to contradict the "single episode" reveal by claiming it was "absolute nonsense", it is natural that people thought he was vehemently saying that the mere thought of it being a single episode was "nonsense" - ie no basis in truth whatsoever.
Again, he misleads and misdirects by use of hyperbole. If he intended to honestly convey "The special is going to be one episode lasting at least an hour - maybe longer, but we've got loads of other brilliant things too" - then couldn't he have just, you know, said so? But instead of nice simple easy to interprete plain English we get this rather silly over the top denunciation of "absolute nonsense". Which, as with the Private Eye news actually turns out to be "very very close to what is actually happening".
Maybe Moffat doesn't know what the phrase "absolute nonsense" means.
The Worldwide toy fair poster was fair and accurate. The anniversary year will include the things it listed. But is not limited to just that. e.g. Christmas special. Not "absolute nonsense" at all. " Accurate" is actually the case.
**coughcoughthebigbangcoughcough**
Even the title sequence for both parts is different. Also, in "Part 2", we have a new Tardis and new companion. It feels like a separate series, especially since there is a Christmas Special that splits the series down the middle.
Likewise yes we've had half the number of episodes in 2013 with the way series 6&7 panned out with the breaks, but we do get a celebratory 50th anniversary episode which I imagine takes as much production resource as several standard episodes combined. So unless folks don't mind a harf-arsed full season in 2013 AND a 50th anniversary episode, then this again was a good move.
My sense of entitlement over 13+1 episodes per year would only kick in if the BBC did this every single year. Then I'd feel as conned as macmam11 does. But we're not there yet.
I've always said "what appears to be most likely". I also kept an open mind about, for example, the possibility of series 8 episodes in 2013 or multiple specials. But I grounded myself in the actual information available. Once it became obvious (quite early) that there was no realistic prospect of series 8 in 2013, this confirmed to me that I had indeed interpreted the information more correctly than the "optimists".
Why did I remain cautious? Because the BBC officially told us via an official press release that fourteen episodes were planned. They went beyond Private Eye's news (which was about 2012 only) and volunteered to us the first glimpse of a possible 2013 schedule. Cohen told us to expect a handful of those in 2012. The remainder in 2013, Christmas day specials and some anniversary related things.
So, despite keeping an open mind, I always kept in mind that regardless of the various vague, obtuse and tetchy comments from Moffat, the actual hard information was 2012/2013=14+anniversary+christmas 2013.
I treated Moffat's comments with less credibility than others because of a track record of those being a less helpful guide to actual outcomes. And even Moffat said that his early bluster about the series 6 split was not actually true.
The BBC knew by June 2011 at the very latest that 2012 would be a small number of episodes. They didn't want to talk about it. When Private Eye said so, their initial instinct was to misdirect people with their "14 episodes all starring Matt" press release. Which they and Cohen then had to correct with "not a full run in 2012." Confirming the main point of the Private Eye piece.
They may not have known for sure in June 2011 that the 2013 episodes were going to have new theme, titles, Doctor costume, tardis set, different companion and different story arc. But they did know well in advance of 2013 that this would be the case. Yet still they carried on with comments about "a tiny delay so that we can shift the series to autumn". etc. Which was nonsense.
I agree that there have been behind the scenes issues that affected the production of series 7 as production went on. And that they wouldn't have known about these problems in June 2011. But they did know enough to have communicated the main issues concerning fans better than they did. If they had wanted to.
There will always be doomsayers. I was always careful to say from the outset that I thought the issues surrounding series 7 were somewhat isolated to that series and not indicative of the BBC withdrawing support from the show. But it didn't seem to matter how carefully one said this, the extreme wing of the Happiness Patrol interpreted anything other than "2013=twenty episodes at least" guesses as the work of dangerous evil people.
coughcoughtheweddingofriversongcoughcough
I could understand that saving money for the 2013 anniversary special episode and related items might have led to a reduction in regular episodes broadcast in 2013. I'm not so sure how any of that relates to the reduction in regular episodes broadcast in 2012? Unless the anniversary episode is costing something in the region of twelve or thirteen regular episodes?
We await news about the filming and possible broadcast schedule of series 8. Jenna said there could be quite a wait based on key people being busy with the anniversary things. Which hints at no filming until December 2013 or later. We have no firm information or, indeed, any hints as to how many episodes will be broadcast in 2014.
This is a great point.
The fact that they have been slow to confirm this makes me think that there won't actually be a Series 8.
This is what makes me think that they're planning on permanently moving to a "Specials" format.
Why would they confirm anything at this stage? Plenty of time to do that, regardless of previous precedents.
After all, the BBC aired Line of Duty last June, and only confirmed a second series in the last week.
Remember, the BBC landscape has changed significantly over the past year or so with DQF and various management structural and procedural changes - those changes are ongoing. So what they did in terms of announcements in previous years might not be what they will be doing in the future.
Sorry I didn't mean to turn into a doommonger, what I meant was that we will hopefully have a clearer idea of what format series 8 will take and when it will air once it's been commissioned (which will of course happen, hopefully soon).
I hope I'm wrong and that they do proceed with a Series 8 (I have my doubts).
In any case, I think a lot of fans would appreciate if they could be more open what their plans are for the show. Too often fans of British TV series are never sure once it finishes when a new series will broadcast, if at all.
Yep, it would certainly be nice
I understand the argument that when he said all of that, it might well indeed have been the plan. But at no point did he ever come clean and admit that we weren't getting a split season even, let alone a reduction.
I was at the official convention in Cardiff in March. Moffat said of series 7; It's definitely not a split season. It's a continuous run of 13 episodes, and all we are doing is straddling Christmas.
Look how true that turned out! - I suspect he knew by then that this was nonsense, since we subsequently discovered that the series 7 schedule was always planned to continue to late November which would have made straddling Christmas pretty tight.
And, though it's not come to pass yet, you can see the same thing happening for 2013. No attempt is being made to disassociate or play down all the promises made last year, more the opposite.
If you had promised to take a child to the zoo, then it subsequently became impossible, would you continue to reinforce the promise, and allowing the pretence right up until the morning of the zoo visit, and then refuse to talk about it and hope the kid didn't notice? You can't be surprised by feelings of disappointment would then be far worse.
While he's not always entirely responsible for airing, he is responsible for it not airing regularly. The best scheduling in the world cannot schedule something that hasn't been produced.
I find it frustrating that that old chestnut "sense of entitlement" is trotted out immediately after any exclamation of disappointment. I don't feel a sense of entitlement for anything, but I *do* feel disappointed. And what's worse, is that the powers that be aren't even decent enough to acknowledge that misleading statements were made, false expectations were set. None of this has anything to do with "entitlement".
I also do find frustrating that attitude of "at least it's not as bad as it could be, they're making some new episodes" Yes, the series hasn't been cancelled, all copies in the archives haven't been wiped. Worse still, some people haven't got shoes on their feet, and even worse again, people are starving in Africa. Constantly bringing up the fact that things could always be worse to try and pretend everything's currently rosey with Doctor Who is pretty annoying.
I'd see resource and cost of production as more than just the money involved. There's the time and effort a team of writers need to put together a quality package as opposed to churning out something to a deadline; then there's the actor's committment to the production and I understand Who needs an almost year round committment from Matt Smith (just something I read on this forum once).
So easing off a bit from 2012 and effectively a losing 1 series between 2012/2013 to keep things fresh and make a cracking anniversary episode makes sense.
It would be nice if they were just honest about that rather than create spin and pretend there's no drop in output. And if that trend continues into 2014 then I'd get pi$$y.