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Something tested on BBCB last night (July 17th)?

GreeboGreebo Posts: 1,418
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in Technical #1
Something strange on the BBCB mux from Winter Hill last night - 3 extra PMTs appeared from approx 03:00 until 03:40 -
> PID found: 1400 (0x0578)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
> PID found: 1500 (0x05dc)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
> PID found: 1600 (0x0640)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
^^^BBCB pidscan change^^^

I see that http://en.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?liste=1&live=9&lang=en&mux=BBCB also spotted them from CP.

Any thoughts what they may have been testing? Clearly no extra audio or video PIDs were added. It may have coincided with a dip in the bandwith chart on the digitialbitrate page, or maybe that dip is normal at that time of night?

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    a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    #2
    They appeared the previous night as well.

    Red Button functionality?
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    GreeboGreebo Posts: 1,418
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    #3
    a516 wrote: »
    They appeared the previous night as well.

    Red Button functionality?

    Not disagreeing with you, but my scripts didn't spot them from WH the previous night- quite possible they were there though, the checks are mostly only fairly momentary and then repeat 10 minutes later, so things can change for 9 minutes and sneak past unseen.

    Red button only has one PMT on BBCA for the LCN200 service - and I'm not quite sure why that is required, so I don't know why it could need three on BBCB unless it would be red button services for BBC, ITV & CH4. I don't check for DSM-CC PIDs as they pop in and out so dynamically I'd get too many alerts, so I don't know if there were some of those involved with whatever the test was.
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    chrisychrisy Posts: 9,421
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    #4
    Greebo wrote: »
    Red button only has one PMT on BBCA for the LCN200 service - and I'm not quite sure why that is required, so I don't know why it could need three on BBCB unless it would be red button services for BBC, ITV & CH4.

    The BBC might be adding a red button thingy on their HD channels for the Commonwealth games. That's three channels (BBC 1, 2 and 3 HD), so they'd need three PMT entries?
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    a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    #5
    Greebo wrote: »
    Not disagreeing with you, but my scripts didn't spot them from WH the previous night- quite possible they were there though, the checks are mostly only fairly momentary and then repeat 10 minutes later, so things can change for 9 minutes and sneak past unseen.

    Red button only has one PMT on BBCA for the LCN200 service - and I'm not quite sure why that is required, so I don't know why it could need three on BBCB unless it would be red button services for BBC, ITV & CH4. I don't check for DSM-CC PIDs as they pop in and out so dynamically I'd get too many alerts, so I don't know if there were some of those involved with whatever the test was.
    I looked at the Digital Bitrate site on the morning of the 16th July after the BBC Three HD / CBBC HD stream change, and it had discovered the three "rogue" entries that you describe.
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    epsilonepsilon Posts: 4,583
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    #6
    a516 wrote: »
    They appeared the previous night as well.

    Red Button functionality?

    Possibly, the Digital Bitrate site shows these PMT's linked to a data stream on PID 7311. Type 0x66, which is usually MHEG.
    chrisy wrote: »
    The BBC might be adding a red button thingy on their HD channels for the Commonwealth games. That's three channels (BBC 1, 2 and 3 HD), so they'd need three PMT entries?

    No, they would map them to the existing PMT entries for those channels. Three additional PMT entries, each pointing to a single data stream suggests something else. Perhaps live testing of an MHEG application before they map it to the actual channels?

    Currently, none of these additional streams are active on the BBC B mux. However, PID 7010 adds an MHEG stream to BBC Three HD, BBC One HD and BBC Two HD already had them (PIDs 6610 and 110 respectively). A data stream (PID 7302) has also been mapped to the PMTs for the above named channels. A red button function will probably appear shortly.
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    a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    #7
    I've managed to get BBC One HD to display a blue menu button with the Red Button stream options.

    I went to BBC RB301, pressed red, selected "Commonwealth Previews", which took me to BBC RB302. Then I selected "101" on my remote, and the blue button menu appeared shortly after the channel change. I can't currently get the blue button menu to appear without doing that, although this may change once the Commonwealth Games are actually underway.

    During BBC RB301's downtime, it acts as a Red Button portal to the available Commonwealth Games streams on Freeview.
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    GreeboGreebo Posts: 1,418
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    #8
    There's a new PMT appeared on BBCB at approx 14:30 yesterday at 6500 (0x1964). Mediainfo reports that the only PID linked to it is 7313 (0x1c91) which is a DSM-CC data stream. This time it has stayed up rather than vanishing again.
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    figrin_danfigrin_dan Posts: 1,437
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    #9
    Interesting. I can confirm an untitled channel from Crystal Palace if that's any use.
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    GreeboGreebo Posts: 1,418
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    #10
    Five new PMTs on BBCA as well now, appeared approx 14:20:
    PID found: 6100 (0x17d4)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
 PID found: 6200 (0x1838)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
 PID found: 6300 (0x189c)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
 PID found: 6400 (0x1900)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
 PID found: 6600 (0x19c8)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]

    Maybe popup messages related to the September retune? Though I've not seen them appear on BBC channels yet. Would expect them on BBC News, CBBC, CBeebies and BBC Parliament, so the numbers don't quite seem to match. That would then make the extra BBCB PMT be for CBBC HD.
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    chrisychrisy Posts: 9,421
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    #11
    Greebo wrote: »
    Maybe popup messages related to the September retune? Though I've not seen them appear on BBC channels yet. Would expect them on BBC News, CBBC, CBeebies and BBC Parliament, so the numbers don't quite seem to match. That would then make the extra BBCB PMT be for CBBC HD.

    My scanner has picked up duplicates of everything that is moving (on the two BBC muxes) in September, in the 800s (http://www.terrestrialtv.co.uk/live). I know the names sometimes go screwy but this looks correct - I imagine the old locations will get MHEG slates informing of the new numbers.
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    GreeboGreebo Posts: 1,418
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    #12
    Greebo wrote: »
    Would expect them on BBC News, CBBC, CBeebies and BBC Parliament, so the numbers don't quite seem to match.

    I missed BBC RB301 which is moving to 600 (or 601?) - I assume with the obvious rename. That makes the 5 channels on BBCA that could have popup change warnings and/or be prep for an MHEG temporary place holder slate to tell people the new channel numbers to use after the retune.
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    a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    #13
    As a byline, the average bitrates on BBC A have dropped recently. I wonder what's planned?

    I know there had been plans to add BBC Red Button text on the HD channels at one point. I wonder if that will ever come about?
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    a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    #14
    chrisy wrote: »
    My scanner has picked up duplicates of everything that is moving (on the two BBC muxes) in September, in the 800s (http://www.terrestrialtv.co.uk/live). I know the names sometimes go screwy but this looks correct - I imagine the old locations will get MHEG slates informing of the new numbers.
    If they do that, then it makes a retune necessary (as opposed to just changing the LCN leaving viewers who don't retune with e.g. BBC News on ch.80)
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    kasgkasg Posts: 4,722
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    #15
    a516 wrote: »
    I know there had been plans to add BBC Red Button text on the HD channels at one point. I wonder if that will ever come about?
    Oh, PLEASE, it is such a pain to have to change to SD to get this, why is it taking so long?
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    chrisychrisy Posts: 9,421
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    #16
    kasg wrote: »
    Oh, PLEASE, it is such a pain to have to change to SD to get this, why is it taking so long?

    Especially so now all the BBC channels are in HD.
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    anthony davidanthony david Posts: 14,511
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    #17
    chrisy wrote: »
    My scanner has picked up duplicates of everything that is moving (on the two BBC muxes) in September, in the 800s (http://www.terrestrialtv.co.uk/live). I know the names sometimes go screwy but this looks correct - I imagine the old locations will get MHEG slates informing of the new numbers.

    If slates are left it will have to be done in a way that doesn't inhibit the auto retuning that many modern sets have.
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