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Poorly goldfish, can I do anything?
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Our goldfish has been very still tonight, it's just sat on the gravel at the bottom of the tank. Every evening it comes up to the top of the tank waiting for its food but it didn't do that today. In fact it didn't show any interest when I put the food in the tank. It hasn't ever acted listless like this in the 3/4 years we've had it and I'm worried it may be dying:(
Does anyone know if I can do anything to help? I feel useless.
Does anyone know if I can do anything to help? I feel useless.
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Food which is not eaten should be removed after a few hours, or just enough given so that they dont leave any left over, and water changed every so often because of the fishes waste which builds up in the water over time.
I think its worth reading up on keeping goldfish. e.g when changing the water only change a third. (the water needs to be changed, also they need a filter), because of the build up of waste.
I keep gold fish in a pond in the garden and have a filter and pump.
I also know its important to have the correct ratio of water surface area to fish length. I cant remember the ratio but a fish/aquarium shop will tell you, or a book on goldfish. They need a certain amount of space, if they dont have it they can die through lack of oxygen. (A pump helps here)
Also I use safe water and safe guard liquid products and add a few drops of each when changing the water. This treats the water and makes tap water safe for the fish.
As I said you could ring a good fish/pet shop and they should be able to answer any questions.
I read a book about it some years ago, when I was setting up the pond, but I ve forgotten most of what I read now. But once the tank is set up its easy to look after them. Ive had mine about 6 years now and they have grown to over 6 inches.
I hope your fish gets better.
if your fish is a common goldfish-slim long body, single tail, it will need at least a 20 gallon tank absolute minimum. if you have a fancy-fat bodied twin tail goldfish, you can possibly get away with a 10 gallon, ideally it should be more though. plus goldfish are extremely social fish and need at least 1 of their own kind around or they can get depressed and stop eating. for a pair of commons you will need at least a 40 gallon tank, a pair of fancies can live out their life happily in a 25 gallon tank.
all fish need water changes, between every 7-14 days depending on tank size, inhabitants, plant life. you should also be doing a gravel vac each time to remove any uneaten food and fish waste.
the salts may help, they wont hurt thats for sure, but it sounds to me like a water quality problem which wont be rectifed with adding stuff to the water, water changes and adding live plants will help though.
make sure you add tap water treatment to all water added to the tank before it goes in so you dont kill your cycle by killing the bacteria growing on the gravel and in the filter. apparently it takes approx 30 seconds for tap water to kill off the bacteria so i always treat new water in a large 10 gallon bucket before adding it to my tank. its also easier to work out the dosages. slightly over dosing tap water treatment will not hurt your fish though.
one last thing, if you do have a fat bodied fancy goldfish, by the sounds of you saying he hasnt come to the top for food, you are feeding it floating foods. this is a bad thing for fancies, they suffer floaty issues easily, some even on sinking pellets, so you will need to go and buy sinking pellets as it could possibly be a swim bladder problem, though unlikely as its sitting on the bottom and most tend to be unstable in the water rather than just sit. also, if it is a fancy, well any goldfish should have them but fancies in particular, feed it cooked shelled peas at least once or twice a week, they need greens in their diet to keep them healthy
hope this helps.
The tank was clean but to be honest I always do complete water changes, maybe that stressed it this time? There is a small filter on the tank, and it's a 'beginners' 30 litre aquarium which i thought would be big enough for one fish. Every other Saturday night I fill the bath with water and add water treatment drops then I put the fish in next morning when the water is room temp. After it's had a good swim and the tank is clean I scoop the fish back up with the clean treated water and put it back.
He/she (I'll just say he) is a regular goldfish that my son unexpectedly won from the fair. I didn't approve of it as they had poor little fish hanging up in tiny
plastic bags in the sun, but we ended up with this one and usually he's a toughie. We put in a couple of fish the same size for company but he kept fighting them, ramming their sides and even trying to push them out over the edge of the tank so I gave up on that. my niece has the other fish now.
As you said, it's probably best to not mess around with the water now as I don't want to stress him out, but I can see I need to make a few changes, I've taken that on board. I'll try the pea dinner though, it couldn't hurt:)
30lt is much too small for the fish and could explain the seemingly agressive behaviour when you added more fish.
Changing all the water will stop the nitrogen cycle from completeing. The nitrogen cycle is where harmful ammonia (produced by the fish) is broken down by beneficial bacteria into harmful nitrite which is then broken down by the bacteria into relatively harmless nitrate. It can take 6 to 8 weeks to complete (ie a colony of bacteria of a sufficient size to cope with the fish waste has built up) and is a very stressful experience for a fish (many people do a 'fishless cycle' where they add ammonia to a fishless tank) as the ammonia burns their gills. By cleaning out the tank - and, I assume, the filter and gravel - you will be removing most of the bacteria. If you are taking longer than 30 - 60 minutes, any remaining bacteria will die.
During a cycle you should be testing the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels of the water pretty much daily and performing partial water changes with treated water every couple of days or more frequently if ammonia/nitrite levels spike.
I'm afraid I think your fish is unlikely to recover but there is always hope. I would do a partial water change now - using a gravel vac and treated water - and other than perhaps trying the pea I would fast the fish for a couple of days. If he isn't eating the food will just be polluting the water anyway.
If you can, take a sample of water to an aquatic centre (or even Pets at Home) and have it tested - better would be to buy your own kit (not the strips though - they are pants). My guess is either that your ammonia levels are though the roof or your nitrite are.
Good luck and if fishy makes it, start looking on FreeCycle, local paper, ebay etc for a cheap 200lt tank with a good filter or kinder still, try and find someone with a good sized pond that could rehome it.
As Kelly82 and stress monkey pointed out complete water changes can kill off friendly beneficial bacteria which need to be in the water at all times, and these take a few weeks to grow again. I think its a month. . Thats why I think it is a 1/3 change which is recommended. That way there are always friendly bacteria in the water. And yes putting the fish in the bath can cause stress, and that might cause death in fishes.
Stressmonkey explained the nitrogen cycle very well. That and oxygen levels are the two imortant bits of looking after goldfish, as far as I understand it.
Maybe just keep the fish in the tank and use a clean jug (buy one just for this job) to scoop out 1/3 of the water, no need to move the fish from its original water, then fill a bucket (again only used for this job - you dont want it used to mop the floor and then getting detergents or whatever in the water) with the replacement water - add the water treatments, and then add that water to the original 2/3 in the tank. FThis way the fish stress is kept to a minimum.
Dont feel bad though as you are obviously trying to do your best for the fish, and like you say fairground fish are often treated very poorly. The old idea that a goldfish can survive in as goldfish bowl the size of a football is ridiculous - the surface area of the water is too small.
it's around 64cm² of surface area per 2.5cm of fish.
i can never figure out any further than that though, in my 61x30cm tank i should be able to house 28.6cm of fish to my best guess to satisfy their oxygen needs
but i am not sure about that.
christ, i only just realised today why my snail isn't happy :rolleyes: (currently treating white spot with salt)
As you've now realised, the bath thing would be stressing your fish enormously. Not only from the stress of being moved about but also even the tiniest trace of soap or detergent - a few parts in a million - can kill fish. He's lucky to have survvied this long!
Kudos to you on keeping a fairground fish alive so long. Most of them don;t make it more than a few days. My son came home with 2 fairground fish (he went with a friend and friend's mum said yes to it) and I had to spend a lot of time on the interweb to find out how to keep them alive. They were stunted as many fairground fish are - so probably have more limited lifespans anyway but did manage to make it to 6 years or so. Largely cos I did what you're now doing - got online and got help. I learned most of it from the old Goldfish Paradise forums now gone belly up!
You have had good advice here. A secondhand tank will be better than staying in such a small one. 20 gallons minimum would be good with double the filtration the filter's manufacturer recommends!
Careful if adding salt to not use table salt or any salt that has additives. Epsom salts you may need if fishie has any sign of dropsy (scales are sticking out like pinecones). But be careful of dropping in any meds unless you know precsiely what they do.
This forum has some info that may help:
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/forum/33-disease-diagnosis-treatments/
The last time you introduced more fish it sounds like the tank wasnt big enough, and the original fish was battling for survival. like everyone has said. Its about the water top surface area, because that is where the oxygen comes in. A good pump can increase the surface area by making it move and ripple.
I know that there was a shop called Marks Water World in Teddington London, and they were always brilliant with their help and advice. I worked in that area some years ago so dont know if they are still there. If they are they are worth ringing to ask for exact tank sizes needed for the number of fish you plan on keeping..
This blog talks about water changes for a koi pond but the principles are the same for indoor fish.
http://my3ponds.blogspot.com/2009/04/must-you-change-water-in-your-koi-pond.html
the bath time treat you do with your fish will definately stress it. its best not to remove a fish from a tank unless absolutely neccessary, so just clean out 2/3 of the water each time, with a gravel vac (cheap to buy from any pet shop) and replace with water treated in a bucket. you can use warm water from the tap to warm it to room temperature if needed, but run the tap a few minutes before to run out any water thats been sitting in pipes, and use a dechlorinator that binds heavy metals (most do anyway but check the label)
i think the best size tank you can get would probably be a 5 ft x 2 ft tank, or close to it. the fish need enough room to turn around without touching the front and back of the tank once fully grown so it will need to be at least 1.5 ft front to back to allow for that. obviously the bigger the better for them. its a monster investment for a little fish that cost a couple of quid, but at the ned of the day a pet is a pet and we should do our best to give them a good long healthy life.
my husband says im nuts that i keep 11 goldfish worth a total of about £50 when i bought them, in a set-up which has cost hundreds of pounds to sort for them. i have 4 common goldfish with 7 fancy goldfish in a 6x2x2 tank. everyone thinks im barmy for just keeping goldfish in the tank when its big enough for some monster tropical fish, but i dont care
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh42/kelshay_photos/goldfish%20tank%20march%202010/fishfeedtime.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh42/kelshay_photos/goldfish%20tank%20march%202010/fishtank.jpg
I have read all of the posts, thanks everyone for your advice, I will be much more diligent about his care from now on.
Your tank looks very nice indeed.
It has got me thinking that i may get a tank and bring my 9 goldfish inside but they are all around 4-6 inches and so sould need a big tank. Also the filter I use for them is a massive garden filter and a powerful pump. The pump alone was around £120.
Thing is I only see them if I go out in the garden, so i dont see a lot of them.
I could always set the pond up in a spare room:). Only joking. Although I have seen that the japanese have ponds which run into the house, and very nice they look too.
you would need a tank larger than mine to have 10 common goldfish inside, and it makes not much difference as to what their size is now, goldfish grow large and grow quickly, moreso in warmer indoor tanks so you need a tank which will comfortably house them as adults
Kelly, your tank's amazing. Beautiful fishies.
Mr Hoggy says these fairground fish ended up costing us as much as a racehorse would, to keep and he's kind of right.:D Mine are all males - sadly because I'd love them to have little uns. Am building a pond this year as my bro's FIL passed away and his wife has given me the pond filter. Which I never could have afforded, myself! I have one common and two fancies and am tempted to rehome the common outside when the pond's done.
i wont be keeping any more of their spawns, i just wanted to see if i could, and i now have 2 babies growing nicely to show i could keep them alive
post pics of your tank, would love to see it