Transfer business between LFC and MUFC
alancracker
Posts: 5,280 Forum Member
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As many are probably aware it is now almost an unwritten policy on behalf of both these clubs that they never do transfer business with the other. No player has moved between the 2 clubs at first team level since 1964 and this situation shows no sign of changing any time soon. In maintaining such a policy I think it hampers the progress of both clubs
As far as I know there are no other clubs who may be deemed as rivals with such policies - for example
AFC and THFC - Campbell, Adebayor, Jennings,
MUFC and MCFC - Tevez, Peter Barnes, Law, Schmeichal even
EFC and LFC - Beardsley, David Johnson, Xavier, Ablett
MUFC and SFC - Colbeck
and so on. all have had players play for both clubs, even Rangers and Celtic
For me this cannot be right but to change it is going to be hard, I see Sterling has now said (to annoy us die hard LFC fans even more maybe!!) that he would be prepared to consider joining MUFC. I am not sure of that one as for a high profile player to make that move would be very risky - but before long I hope someone does transfer between LFC and MUFC altho maybe a less high profile player doing it first first would be best? Or maybe a player exchange? In the old days when Busby and Shanks were there the clubs had good relations and indeed Matt Busby is a former LFC player - since the 70s however it has gone downhill fast!!
I have reacted in the LFC thread to a suggestion from a poster that we should appoint Rene what's his name the ex Fulham boss to replace Pascoe but I think that would be very foolish and would not work as so many fans would never accept such an appointment. You may not like it but it is a fact - I go on LFC forums and I know how even fairly mild mannered fans think about this - and I expect it is the same on the MUFC side too. Of course SAF famously would not let Heinze join LFC and the stick given to Owen for joining MUFC (even when it was not direct from LFC) is dare I say it rather extreme. I admit I not a great MO fan but I do think him joining MUFC from NUFC when he did was understandable - making such a statement puts me in the minority of LFC fans I can tell you such is the level of bitterness and hatred which exists
I would be interested to have a debate about this matter with fans from both clubs and others contributing - both telling us their views and their reading of the views from within their club and some thoughts of how this impasse can be broken - or whether they think it would be a good thing to do so. Some may see it as fine for the unspoken ban on moves between LFC and MUFC to continue - I do not see it that way and would like to see more enlightened thinking prevail but I think it will be clearly hard to do so.
I'll shut up now - and let others give their views - and lets try to keep exchanges polite please, I am just interested in how this is perceived from all sides.
As far as I know there are no other clubs who may be deemed as rivals with such policies - for example
AFC and THFC - Campbell, Adebayor, Jennings,
MUFC and MCFC - Tevez, Peter Barnes, Law, Schmeichal even
EFC and LFC - Beardsley, David Johnson, Xavier, Ablett
MUFC and SFC - Colbeck
and so on. all have had players play for both clubs, even Rangers and Celtic
For me this cannot be right but to change it is going to be hard, I see Sterling has now said (to annoy us die hard LFC fans even more maybe!!) that he would be prepared to consider joining MUFC. I am not sure of that one as for a high profile player to make that move would be very risky - but before long I hope someone does transfer between LFC and MUFC altho maybe a less high profile player doing it first first would be best? Or maybe a player exchange? In the old days when Busby and Shanks were there the clubs had good relations and indeed Matt Busby is a former LFC player - since the 70s however it has gone downhill fast!!
I have reacted in the LFC thread to a suggestion from a poster that we should appoint Rene what's his name the ex Fulham boss to replace Pascoe but I think that would be very foolish and would not work as so many fans would never accept such an appointment. You may not like it but it is a fact - I go on LFC forums and I know how even fairly mild mannered fans think about this - and I expect it is the same on the MUFC side too. Of course SAF famously would not let Heinze join LFC and the stick given to Owen for joining MUFC (even when it was not direct from LFC) is dare I say it rather extreme. I admit I not a great MO fan but I do think him joining MUFC from NUFC when he did was understandable - making such a statement puts me in the minority of LFC fans I can tell you such is the level of bitterness and hatred which exists
I would be interested to have a debate about this matter with fans from both clubs and others contributing - both telling us their views and their reading of the views from within their club and some thoughts of how this impasse can be broken - or whether they think it would be a good thing to do so. Some may see it as fine for the unspoken ban on moves between LFC and MUFC to continue - I do not see it that way and would like to see more enlightened thinking prevail but I think it will be clearly hard to do so.
I'll shut up now - and let others give their views - and lets try to keep exchanges polite please, I am just interested in how this is perceived from all sides.
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Comments
As for transfer business between Manchester United and Liverpool direct (one way or the other), we saw a few years ago with Heinze how fierce, and how convoluted this could get (if I remember correctly, Liverpool were prepared to use Crystal Palace as a conduit so that they didn't sign him direct from us).
It is strange in a way that two huge companies won't do business with each other, I am not uptpo speed on these things, but do Pepsi and Coke do much business or McDonald's and Burger King?
Getting back on track, I don't know when Phil's record will be broken (I don't think Sterling will be the player who does break it contrary to all of the stories about us being interested in him), but eventually I can see someone doing so, and then it might not normalise it, but it might make the pathway easier for others to do.
If one of the players we're looking to get rid of this summer (Hernandez, Nani, Evans) wanted to go to Liverpool, I wouldn't be all that bothered.
I think I would feel differently if Evans would up there, or say Wilson did, rather than the other players you mentioned, as coming through the academy means more to me as players then signings from other clubs or countries.
If for example Fowler or McManaman had moved to us, I think that would have outraged Liverpool fans more than if say Berger or Kewell.
That is just my feelings though, you and/or others !at indeed feel differently.
If they agree to take him I'll happily drive him to Anfield myself!
It is nearly half two in the morning, I couldn't quite think of a like for like from their academy to Evans!
Flanagan perhaps?
They are still the two players I think of when it comes to their academy (I suppose Gerrard and Carragher as well).
I think the fear re academy players comes down to more general concerns regarding whether we are letting them go too soon, will they suddenly blossom at another club etc.
Evans is a bit too long in the tooth for that now. Now if Welbeck had wanted to move there, that would have certainly caused some consternation among the United fans.
Welbeck is a good example, and someone who if he was playing for someone else other than ourselves, could very well be a Liverpool player right now, as I think at the time there was only him or Balotelli for Liverpool to select from as a striker to join them.
We were never going to sell them Welbeck, so they went down the other route with little to no success.
I see what you mean about academy players, and that is a factor no doubt about it, another is at least from my point of view is that seeing them wear our shirt in under 18's, and Under 21's, to then see them suddenly wearing Liver Liverpool colours would be a bit of a shock to the system.
Adebayor went to City from Arsenal first before coming to Spurs.
Sol Cambell was out of contract and refused to sign a new one that would of made him the highest paid player at the club. So he was able to choose to join Arsenal on a free.
Pat Jennings' transfer to Arsenal was a mistake, as it was thought he was nearing the end of his career. Who would of guessed he had another good 8 years left in him!
The modern players that you mention there didn't move directly between the clubs. Campbell was out of contract at Spurs, Adebayor went from Man City to Spurs, Tevez was out of contract at United, Schmeichel went from Villa to City.
Liverpool wouldn't sell a top player to Man Utd simply because it makes them look small time and they wouldn't sign a player from Man Utd because it would look like a player not good enough for Man Utd was good enough for Liverpool. Of the players that both clubs would be prepared to let go as things stand a player that isn't good enough for Liverpool wouldn't get in the Man Utd team anyway and a player who is playing regularly for Man Utd wouldn't be interested in a move to Liverpool. Thats just the reality of where the two clubs are at currently.
In reality though I don't think it really affects either club much?
I cannot understand this mentality however. he was only a coach at Man Utd and was very highly thought of in that role. It was just a change of circumstances that led to him leaving and despite his time at Fulham his reputation as a coach is still intact. I think it would be a coup for Liverpool to get him. I don't really see why anyone would be put off because he was previously a coach at Man Utd. Its not as if he spent his whole career there or is a die hard "United man".
I don't see it as a problem. It doesn't make sense to transfer a player to a rival and overtime it happens it leaves a bad taste. Man Utd have had to overpay to bring in players from Spurs just because Spurs were looking to be seen as a progressive club not a selling club. Similarly every time City take a player from Arsenal it adversely affects how Arsenal are seen in terms of stature.
How did you feel about Paul Ince? Did you see him as a Man Utd player when you signed him? Did the fact that he feel out with Alex Ferguson make it better?
At the time I was just happy we had a player who wasn't going to be labelled a Spice Boy. I didn't care that he was ex United or that he had fell out with Fergie.
As for an actual transfer of a player, well that will be a hard pill to take for whichever set of fans is the selling party, particularly if that player is well liked at the club.
At the moment, I cannot see any important player moving between the two clubs, there is far to much bad PR for the selling club, no matter the price.
It was hard enough initially to get behind Owen when we first signed him, (the fact that he doesn't have a Liverpool accent did help admittedly) and that was after he had played for a few other clubs in between.
Silly comment, your current captain has that same accent and you have no issue with him, do you?
I frankly think all this is gone beyond silly regarding Rene, the man is a dammed good coach and would be brilliant for us - so why the hell shouldn't he come? United let him go, he left them - whatever. he isn't like Blackpool rock with MUFC stamped through his middle - he's a free agent to go where he wishes, and we are free to try and get him. It's not even like he walked directly out of Old Trafford into Anfield, but even if he did, so what?
Such a prehistoric view I think.
I do not have any issues with Rooney's accent, but then again he does not have any association with Liverpool the club, whereas Owen most certainly di, the fact that he did not have an accent, in my own mind did help me to think of him as one of our own players (the goal in the last min v City played a huge role as well).
If you don't agree, then fair enough, but I can only speak from my own perspective.
That really doesn't count. An unknown youth player doesn't register on 99% of peoples radar.
I must be misunderstanding here cos this is easily one of the most unbelievable things Ive read in a long time. You are saying you could accept an ex-Liverpool player as long as he didn't have a scouse accent?????
Steve McMahon first played for Everton - Peter Beardsly went to Everton later in his career and I can't remember anyone shouting hostilities to them from Liverpool.
That is par for the course for Batdude.
Unbelievable but hilarious, never quite heard anything like it.
Who, I have never heard of him?
A total gibberish and stupendas post from Batdude as usual.
It might not register on 99% of people's radars, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, I was just putting forward an example that came to my mind.
As for the accent part of my post, I said it was a contributing factor, not the main part of my acceptance or not, this was just my view, you may disagree, fine, but why pull others down for having a different view?
Why is it funny for someone to have a different point of view?
It happened about three maybe four years ago now I think, perhaps someone on the Liverpool end could help to solidify the facts a bit more.
In regards to the topic, I wouldn't mind seeing any transfer business done between the two sides as long as it suited Liverpool. And I'm sure United fans feel the same way. Problem is is that the only players worth signing would never suit the selling side. I'd love it if we signed Di Maria for a packet of Roast Beef Monster Munch, just as much I'd love it if we sold them Fabio Borini in exchange for a pinky promise that they'd never finish higher than 14th ever again.