HDR-FOX T2 - Bad SD Quality?
I've been reading through reviews and through these forums regarding the Humax HDR-FOX T2.
We don't get HD in our region until November 2011, so my main watching (if I purchase this) would be SD.
I've seen a lot of comments about the SD picture being pretty poor, is it really that bad? Would it be worse than the SD picture on my Samsung TV?
We don't get HD in our region until November 2011, so my main watching (if I purchase this) would be SD.
I've seen a lot of comments about the SD picture being pretty poor, is it really that bad? Would it be worse than the SD picture on my Samsung TV?
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The SD quality is absolutely as good as it can be for Freeview. Those that complain seem to have TVs or are used to other sources applying lots of sharpening, see link here for info on that particular trick.
On our TV, you can't see the difference between the Humax and TVs own tuner.
Regards
Phil
That said, it isn't terrible, and over time I have simply got used to it. It's acceptable - nothing more and nothing less.
There's no reason why the same settings on the TV for the Humax input wouldn't work though is there?
So I can always have slightly sharpened images?
Would the HD pictures (when broadcast) look awful if the sharpening was on slightly for the Humax input?
It's all digital, the output from the tuner is identical to anything else and is the same reason upgrading your aerial to the biggest most expensive beast will not improve your picture quality. It either works or it doesn't. The subjective differences are all an optical illusion based on edge-enhancement and other processing.
Your Digifusion PVR is simply adding sharpening, and/or more is usually added when SCART inputs are used, then some more perhaps by your TV's global sharpness setting. It isn't real, if anything you get left with less detail, did you read the link regarding edge-enhancement?
If you prefer this false over sharpened look you can connect via SCART or turn the sharpness up on your TV.
I've taken SD content from the Humax and played it back via my Blu-Ray player and the picture is identical to how it looks from the Humax and how it looks via the TV tuner.
Overall Freeview SD is very poor quality, you'll never see me saying it is sharp or good quality from anything as I like to be objective and tell it as it is
Regards
Phil
The sharpness settings will still work with the Humax yes. If used on a low amount HD pictures shouldn't look too different.
Regards
Phil
As an aside, I've noted in a newly refitted Currys, they appear to have stopped connecting their sets to antennas, and use only HDMI connections, making it impossible to compare how the sets interpret off-the-air reception.
Of course there will be differences in the rendering of the picture, even given a digital source - after all the software on both the PVRs and displays, and the firmware within the chips they are composed is coded to render the compressed information coming in as an uncompressed picture. Differences in code, methods, processing power, interpretation of standards, experiments, bugs etc and differences in the hardware generating the picture will ensure there are differences in what comes out the other end.
BTW no clannism from me. Most of my digital TV products go back to the shop within 6 months cos they are so universally crap! The best I can rate what I currently have is "the least crap I have found so far". The only systems I really rated are now defunct and long out of production (for shame).
By all means add an artificial enhancement option but ONLY if it is OFF by default.
That would sort out the problems of those who are used to execessive enhancement and think it is natural. Of course they are entitled to prefer an artifical picture but please do not prevent the rest of us from having what is meant to be.
As already commented, providing the option is available to turn on or off any 'enhancements' I see no problem, and you please everyone then.
Personally I find the SD quality identical to the TV's tuner, but then our TV has defeatable sharpening on its tuner and we have this disabled for the best picture.
Regards
Phil
I have my HDR-FOX T2 500GB set to upscale to 1080P and the SD picture is pin sharp, almost as good as that on HD channels.
HOWEVER.... if found that my TV was not set-up properly on the HDMI input. It has all sorts of Sony "picture enhancements" added which seemed to soften the picture and blur motion.
I disabled all of these on the TV and enabled pixel mapped display for the 1080p and hey presto, a superb SD PICTURE. In my opinion, much better then the TV's internal tuner and in some cases - at a casual glance at least - nerly as good at the HD.
So, make sure that your TV is not doing anything too "clever" and messing with the 1080p output and the results are good. The pixel mapping made the biggest improvement IMO.
btw. I actually ended up reducing the sharpening a little from the sony default values for a small improvement in picture quality.
It is impossible to add detail to a picture, so up-scaling is purely a process of making the picture bigger without introducing artifacts that may disturb the user. There is a degree of smoothing here as part of the interpolation to reduce the possibility of aliasing but in general the image should not be too enhanced. A little sharpening can be added to try and give the feeling of extra detail in the scene (which does not exist because the image originated as SD) but the degree to which sharpening is added is a matter of opinion it seems.
Sharpening is the process by which the device looks for 'edges' in a scene and then exaggerates them so that they are more distinct. It is worth remembering that no more detail can be created in a scene than was broadcast, what is lost in encoding can never be restored.
Yes the pixel-to-pixel mapping setting (sometimes called Overscan, where OFF is the same pixel-to-pixel mapping on) can make a good difference as this ensures only one lot of scaling is happening. As scaling is a lossy process you only want it done the once.
I think this double scaling has caused a lot of complaints about picture quality with Freeview SD over HDMI because there is hardly any real detail in Freeview SD to start with, so any scaling process is even more lossy. Some boxes will be applying edge-enhancement and sharpening that will help disguise the losses by double scaling, but you still get the better picture by having no sharpening and just one lot of scaling as you have found.
It would be great if Humax added a sharpening option provided it was a setable item, as at least then they can compete on a level playing field with those boxes that are cheating with the picture. Also owners can setup the sharpening so it matches whatever their TV does and keeps the inputs looking equal. Yes we all know the picture without sharpening has more detail, but the human brain is an odd thing and people are so used to over-enhanced standard definition sources now it's hard to pursued them otherwise, so at least they would have a choice.
Regards
Phil
The Broadcom chip used in the Humax has digital noise and contour reduction filters according to the specifications, is this enabled? It would be great if we could have access to these settings as well.
While most people probably never adjust these settings from the defaults, some of us would. I would think this is just be a software addition to enable/disable them, but immediately gives the PVR features no other has currently that I'm aware. I know DigitalStream added some basic picture settings. I would suggest though given the differences in SD and HD picture quality that the settings should be done in a way that they can be different for SD and HD. For example you might want a noise reduction for SD, but not for HD, and it would be tedious adjusting it each time.
Regards
Phil
Even if we provided that control it wouldn't satisfy people and the level of support they would expect would be a burden for us. Mainly we should be outputting the most correct picture more than providing 'tweeks'. Every time you adjust the picture you end up affecting it and reducing the resolution (any mathematical function reduces the resolution slightly).
Bob
Bob
Would you really have to provide support for a sharpness function on a menu, it is fairly self explanatory? Are these the same people who phone up the police to ask the time?
Sharpness control is found on many items and would prevent complaints by the masses which would in turn garner you sales. Whether it's worth the development effort though is a call that only Humax can make.
Buried in the menus for my Pioneer Kuro are dozens of detailed video modifications that can be made but I don't understand many of them so don't touch them (I only have a degree in physics not tv engineering). As long as there is a defaults button you can't mess up too badly though.
I agree with adjustments ultimately reducing the picture quality but providing there is an off function (turning it right down or central 0 position) then everyone is happy. The trouble with outputting the best picture is everyone has their own idea of what it should look like.
Granted you may not be able to please everyone, but what is clear from various forums is the one thing people do seem to complain about on Humax products is the soft SD picture. While many will understand the picture isn't processed and sharpened like the TVs own internal tuner and has more detail because of that, many will not, and subjectively they consider the Humax inferior in output.
I don't understand though how it would be a support issue as per the other reply. TVs/DVD/Blu-ray players all usually have a list of picture controls and settings, and people have been adjusting picture controls ever since TV was introduced. Considering the added complexity of the soon to be introduced portal, plus all the things the Humax can do currently, I would think a few sliders adjusting some picture parameters will be the least of owners confusion.
Regards
Phil
Well done. Please continue with this sort of approach. The SD picture from my HDR Fox T2 is indistinguishable from the same program being shown on my Pace Twin (via the same RGB SCART input). This is how things should be.
The 720p upscaled picture from the Humax looks very slightly sharper on the HDMI input, but then we're comparing the TV's upscaling of analogue video versus the Humax's upscaling of digital video so I wouldn't expect them to be identical. And it is only a very slight difference.