Yep brilliant episodes but also agree that it was the beginning of the end! There were still some great moments after that but I don't think it ever consistently hit the same heights. They just lost too many great characters in 1 go (and introduced poorer characters to replace them.) When things are going well then you don't need big cast clearouts (although I do recognise that many of the actors chose to leave.)
They did yeah, the only ones that were axed were Claire Stanton, Geoff Daly, Chris Deakin and Brownlow.
Now considering Geoff Daly was the only one that thought Beech was bent it's really unrealistic that he was transfered, would of Debbie, Vik, Paul and Kate worked if Geoff Daly and Chris Deakin hadn't of left I wonder?
Yep wires have been crossed somewhere along the way, I've got the uncut version of The Cross on my hardrive from a torrent. so i'll check it off the 12am showing tonight and see what scenes are missing.
Have you two either seen the episode All Fall Down Part 1 and 2, anyone agree that the episode really did live up too it's name and did fall down after this?
They were great episodes but the end of an era in many ways. A lot of excellent mid 90s characters were wiped out in 2000, replaced by cardboard, dry characters who weren't a patch on those before them.
Ratings were dropping in 2000, so the 1998 revamp long-term didn't solve the solution of halting the ratings slide at the end of the half-hour era. The Bill was really on a slippery slope from then on. Any revamp thereafter would bring a temporary ratings increase before ratings slide again, even lower than before.
They did yeah, the only ones that were axed were Claire Stanton, Geoff Daly, Chris Deakin and Brownlow.
Now considering Geoff Daly was the only one that thought Beech was bent it's really unrealistic that he was transfered, would of Debbie, Vik, Paul and Kate worked if Geoff Daly and Chris Deakin hadn't of left I wonder?
Tom Proctor, Gary McCann, Kerry Holmes and Rod Skase also left in 2000.
They were great episodes but the end of an era in many ways. A lot of excellent mid 90s characters were wiped out in 2000, replaced by cardboard, dry characters who weren't a patch on those before them.
Ratings were dropping in 2000, so the 1998 revamp long-term didn't solve the solution of halting the ratings slide at the end of the half-hour era. The Bill was really on a slippery slope from then on. Any revamp thereafter would bring a temporary ratings increase before ratings slide again, even lower than before.
Tom Proctor, Gary McCann, Kerry Holmes and Rod Skase also left in 2000.
They did yeah, I know Tom, Gary and Kerry quit not sure about Rod Skase though anyone know if he quit or was axed?
I loved the All Fall Down episodes, though I thought the new characters like Paul Riley and Kate Spears, and the whole of CID were really dull and 2001 was quite a dire year overall. The only new character I really loved who they brought in was Chandler and Taviner.
It was only the start of the Marquess era when I started loving the Bill again. 2002 was a really strong year with the Sun Hill firebombing and the serial killer story.
I loved the All Fall Down episodes, though I thought the new characters like Paul Riley and Kate Spears, and the whole of CID were really dull and 2001 was quite a dire year overall. The only new character I really loved who they brought in was Chandler and Taviner.
It was only the start of the Marquess era when I started loving the Bill again. 2002 was a really strong year with the Sun Hill firebombing and the serial killer story.
2001 was very very poor indeed. We lost Bob Cryer who shouldn't have left, CID was crap, uniform was OK but some dullards like Ben Hayward and Ros Clarke. Hated Sgt. Gilmore. Crap writing, and it seemed Richard Handford finally lost the plot after an excellent 1998-2000 period.
2002 was excellent and 2003 in parts and after it was downhill.
I agree that 2001 was a notable decline on before but don't agree that it was very poor (nor that 2002 was excellent.) 2001 had the introduction of Des Taviner which had some good episodes (such as the Terry Knowles storyline, albeit it continued into 2002), the serial rapist storyline and Mickey Webb undercover. I think it was rather like 2008 in that it was a bit inconsistent and frustrating, but there were still a lot of high points.
I thought 2002 was largely pretty poor (albeit better than some of the useless bits of 2004) - there were some good storylines but there was too much letting it down I think. I thought 2003 was generally better; you had the live episode there and a number (though fairly short!) of strong episodes under Carson Black. Then I think it improved quite a bit under Jonathan Young in the autumn of 2005, before stagnating in mid-2007 and then declining majorly in 2009.
Anyway thought today's episode was better than yesterday. It can be interesting seeing them in another location although having basically the whole episode away from Sun Hill was a bit odd to watch. I wonder what scenes were cut today? It seemed more could have been made of Carver suddenly bumping into Burnside. It sets it up nicely though for the next episode which I'm looking forward to watching. 7/10.
Enjoyed today's episode. Liked seeing Burnside as always, putting Boulton in his place, which I liked. The next episode looks to be a cracker so I can't wait.
Another episode focusing really on just 2 regular characters, Boulton and Carver this time, plus Burnside. A very different tone to the earlier episodes with most of uniform involved - a lot more intense, but not necessarily better.
Enjoyed today's episode a bit more than Friday's. It was nice to see some more characters in it (first time we've seen Geoff Daly!) but there seemed a lot of characters in the credits who I don't even remember seeing in the episode! So I'm guessing some of their scenes were cut? (Or they just had very minor roles and so I didn't see them.)
Don't think this one's availalbe online. Again at some point it would be nice to see/hear about the missing scenes if possible!
I'd give this one a 7/10. All thing's considered Section F should be on for either a 9 or possibly even 10/10, depending on how much they cut it - the ironic thing is the more you like an epiosde, the more you'll notice the cuts! I'm sure they'll make at least some cuts to Conway's scene with Brownlow near the end.
I've seen the episode airing tomorrow quite recently but thought it was a good one! It will be nice to get back to uniform after 3 episodes with CID!
I thought today's episode was strong and thoroughly enjoyable but funnily enough, I wanted it to last more than an hour. Nice to see Burnside in the thick of things - the plot was a bit mickey-mouse and contrived at times, but all in all, good episode.
8/10 for me today - I thought it was the strongest since last Wednesday's. Great to see uniform again and thought they spread the storyline well over the course of an hour. Lots of interesting characterisations and developments there - a solid Bill episode.
8/10 for me as well...strong episode. I always think the episodes with uniform are the best. The storyline was good today and could have easily stretched for an extra half an hour.
I also like how it was left on a bit of a cliffhanger with Eddie beaten up in the alleyway, left to the viewer's imagination. It's something The Bill did a lot in the half-hour era, leaving crime stories hanging, but when done sparingly, it has a good effect.
Today was probably my favourite of the CID-heavy ones we've seen so far. It was interesting seeing Rod being placed in a difficult position - 7/10 for me.
I thought The Bill was better as self-contained twenty or so minute episodes. It got very trashy and sensationalist after that.
I don't know if we're allowed to post non DS links but for fellow bargain hunters (I think Find DVD must be my fave iphone App!!) series one is just over half price on DS shop
Just realised that I was just posting in why is ITV so trashy thread and The Bill as ITV. It used to be a nice understated little 'story of the week' drama serial. Perhaps ITV can find its way again. How quickly I forget that its got good programming in its recent past!!
I thought The Bill was better as self-contained twenty or so minute episodes. It got very trashy and sensationalist after that.
I don't know if we're allowed to post non DS links but for fellow bargain hunters (I think Find DVD must be my fave iphone App!!) series one is just over half price on DS shop
My mum used to like The Bill, might get her a DVD unless she's got access to repeats already.
Is The Bill good from day one? Is it worth getting the above DVD or maybe wade in a few series in and give her that instead??
I've got Virgin and my parents have SKY. Is this channel on standard SKY package? Would like to let my mum know if there's repeats that she can watch
The channel's definitely on Sky, on channel 166. I don't know exactly how it works in terms of packaging but I know I've got it through Sky! I guess ask her to tune to 166 and see if she has the channel?
In my view the sensationalist era of The Bill really started when they changed executive producer in 2001/2002. I think that era did a lot of harm to the show's overall reputation. Even when Jonathan Young came in and restored it somewhat to a credible police show it was still hard to shake off the perception that had developed.
I have the first one or two series on DVD. Personally I find it a bit difficult to get into it as I sometimes find it a bit slow, and also many of the characters aren't familiar and it's a different station. But then I never saw that era previously so I guess it's what you're used to. I think I'd prefer to get DVDs from the early 90s instead but it depends on what era an individual has seen and who their favourite characters are etc. I know loads of people loved The Bill from day 1 so it's all a matter of taste really!
Today was near perfection in my view. So many good characters, so many good lines, so many unique moments. It was great to see an increased cast and I think some of the main qualities of pre-2002 were demonstrated - the humour, the interaction, the human touch, the ability to have an episode dedicated to a quirky event focussing on character development rather than just reproducing formulaic storylines week after week.
Brownlow: Did the prisoner hurt himself?
Boyden: Unfortunately not sir!
Monroe: He should stick to what he's good at.
Cryer: Which is what sir?
Monroe: Good question Bob.
Conway: (As George pulls up in car): You're blocking someone else sir!
It's a shame we didn't hear another bit of Conway's speech to Brownlow at the end:
Conway: You b*****d
Brownlow: What did you say?
Conway: You heard me - because I said it to your face. I didn't write down what I thoguht of you on some piece of paper.
Best episode so far and probably (maybe along with S.A.D?) the best of 1998. 10/10.
Today was near perfection in my view. So many good characters, so many good lines, so many unique moments. It was great to see an increased cast and I think some of the main qualities of pre-2002 were demonstrated - the humour, the interaction, the human touch, the ability to have an episode dedicated to a quirky event focussing on character development rather than just reproducing formulaic storylines week after week.
Brownlow: Did the prisoner hurt himself?
Boyden: Unfortunately not sir!
Monroe: He should stick to what he's good at.
Cryer: Which is what sir?
Monroe: Good question Bob.
Conway: (As George pulls up in car): You're blocking someone else sir!
It's a shame we didn't hear another bit of Conway's speech to Brownlow at the end:
Conway: You b*****d
Brownlow: What did you say?
Conway: You heard me - because I said it to your face. I didn't write down what I thoguht of you on some piece of paper.
Best episode so far and probably (maybe along with S.A.D?) the best of 1998. 10/10.
I can't agree more. Just a fantastic episode. It had the perfect mix with comedy (with Skase/Garfield/Quinnan and the clapped out car), Conway getting stuck in, Meadows and CID looking out of touch, Conway confronting Brownlow. So many memorable moments.
The episodes where all the cast are used are always the best episodes. Like when Martella got shot, and like today where most of the cast was used.
The Conway/Brownlow/Meadows trio was fantastic and I think this was one of the things that we lost from The Bill post-2002. That, and the comedy aspect. The Bill took itself far too seriously after 2002, and I liked the balance pre-2002.
My favourite line of the episode was this:
Conway to Brownlow: I may not have the right face but at least I've only got one of them.
What a fantastically underhanded and brilliant line.
10/10. Probably the best Bill episode I've ever seen to be honest.
Yeah, the big thing about these episodes for me is how everything comes together. You might have wondered why Dave's car had broken down at the start but come the end all the various dimensions fitted perfectly into a seamless narrative. You very rarely got those little subplots post-2002. This is why I hate to see any scene taken out from this era - I wouldn't mind so much for later years. And I just love the little touches like Jack drinking Conway's alcohol and the ARV getting lost and needing directions. It gave each episode an individuality rather than seeming repetiive.
Agree it's one of the best episdes ever - wonderful stuff.
Yeah, the big thing about these episodes for me is how everything comes together. You might have wondered why Dave's car had broken down at the start but come the end all the various dimensions fitted perfectly into a seamless narrative. You very rarely got those little subplots post-2002. This is why I hate to see any scene taken out from this era - I wouldn't mind so much for later years. And I just love the little touches like Jack drinking Conway's alcohol and the ARV getting lost and needing directions. It gave each episode an individuality rather than seeming repetiive.
Agree it's one of the best episdes ever - wonderful stuff.
I agree. The narrative is complex and that's what I like. Post-2002, the writing became quite simplistic and lacking any subtlety.
Love these old Bills (no pun intended ), got the 2nd part of the Burnside one to watch tonight, loved him when he was in it, still don't understand why this was axed, its much better than most of the shite they have on, and at its end, im sure it still got good viewing figures, such a shame
I record this on both Sky (in lounge) and Freeview (in bedroom), and was wondering if anyone else had notice how dire the picture is on Sky. Frequently blockiness and occasional complete picture breakup whereas appears to be fine on Freeview.
UK Drama is one of only a handful of SD channels I watch on Sky as normally stick to HD ones, but presume the bit rate they have on Sky is way too low.
I think we've had 3 really strong episodes in a row now, with today's being the strongest. Tomorrow's just can't be better! I've never seen it before though so I'm looking forward to it!
Comments
They did yeah, the only ones that were axed were Claire Stanton, Geoff Daly, Chris Deakin and Brownlow.
Now considering Geoff Daly was the only one that thought Beech was bent it's really unrealistic that he was transfered, would of Debbie, Vik, Paul and Kate worked if Geoff Daly and Chris Deakin hadn't of left I wonder?
They were great episodes but the end of an era in many ways. A lot of excellent mid 90s characters were wiped out in 2000, replaced by cardboard, dry characters who weren't a patch on those before them.
Ratings were dropping in 2000, so the 1998 revamp long-term didn't solve the solution of halting the ratings slide at the end of the half-hour era. The Bill was really on a slippery slope from then on. Any revamp thereafter would bring a temporary ratings increase before ratings slide again, even lower than before.
Tom Proctor, Gary McCann, Kerry Holmes and Rod Skase also left in 2000.
They did yeah, I know Tom, Gary and Kerry quit not sure about Rod Skase though anyone know if he quit or was axed?
It was only the start of the Marquess era when I started loving the Bill again. 2002 was a really strong year with the Sun Hill firebombing and the serial killer story.
2001 was very very poor indeed. We lost Bob Cryer who shouldn't have left, CID was crap, uniform was OK but some dullards like Ben Hayward and Ros Clarke. Hated Sgt. Gilmore. Crap writing, and it seemed Richard Handford finally lost the plot after an excellent 1998-2000 period.
2002 was excellent and 2003 in parts and after it was downhill.
I thought 2002 was largely pretty poor (albeit better than some of the useless bits of 2004) - there were some good storylines but there was too much letting it down I think. I thought 2003 was generally better; you had the live episode there and a number (though fairly short!) of strong episodes under Carson Black. Then I think it improved quite a bit under Jonathan Young in the autumn of 2005, before stagnating in mid-2007 and then declining majorly in 2009.
Anyway thought today's episode was better than yesterday. It can be interesting seeing them in another location although having basically the whole episode away from Sun Hill was a bit odd to watch. I wonder what scenes were cut today? It seemed more could have been made of Carver suddenly bumping into Burnside. It sets it up nicely though for the next episode which I'm looking forward to watching. 7/10.
Another episode focusing really on just 2 regular characters, Boulton and Carver this time, plus Burnside. A very different tone to the earlier episodes with most of uniform involved - a lot more intense, but not necessarily better.
8/10.
Betrayal - continuation of the Burnside story in last episode.
All for One
Trial Run
Section F - which I'm looking forward to
Bad Chemistry
Don't think this one's availalbe online. Again at some point it would be nice to see/hear about the missing scenes if possible!
I'd give this one a 7/10. All thing's considered Section F should be on for either a 9 or possibly even 10/10, depending on how much they cut it - the ironic thing is the more you like an epiosde, the more you'll notice the cuts! I'm sure they'll make at least some cuts to Conway's scene with Brownlow near the end.
I've seen the episode airing tomorrow quite recently but thought it was a good one! It will be nice to get back to uniform after 3 episodes with CID!
7.5/10.
I also like how it was left on a bit of a cliffhanger with Eddie beaten up in the alleyway, left to the viewer's imagination. It's something The Bill did a lot in the half-hour era, leaving crime stories hanging, but when done sparingly, it has a good effect.
Can't wait for Section F tomorrow!
In the meantime, I watched this episode from '97, just to compare with the episodes they're showing now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jhx7bWxPcA
Anyone want to offer up their thoughts?
I don't know if we're allowed to post non DS links but for fellow bargain hunters (I think Find DVD must be my fave iphone App!!) series one is just over half price on DS shop
www.theukedit.com/doctor-who/dvd/the-bill-volume-1/9954487.html
My mum used to like The Bill, might get her a DVD unless she's got access to repeats already.
Is The Bill good from day one? Is it worth getting the above DVD or maybe wade in a few series in and give her that instead??
I've got Virgin and my parents have SKY. Is this channel on standard SKY package? Would like to let my mum know if there's repeats that she can watch
The channel's definitely on Sky, on channel 166. I don't know exactly how it works in terms of packaging but I know I've got it through Sky! I guess ask her to tune to 166 and see if she has the channel?
In my view the sensationalist era of The Bill really started when they changed executive producer in 2001/2002. I think that era did a lot of harm to the show's overall reputation. Even when Jonathan Young came in and restored it somewhat to a credible police show it was still hard to shake off the perception that had developed.
I have the first one or two series on DVD. Personally I find it a bit difficult to get into it as I sometimes find it a bit slow, and also many of the characters aren't familiar and it's a different station. But then I never saw that era previously so I guess it's what you're used to. I think I'd prefer to get DVDs from the early 90s instead but it depends on what era an individual has seen and who their favourite characters are etc. I know loads of people loved The Bill from day 1 so it's all a matter of taste really!
Brownlow: Did the prisoner hurt himself?
Boyden: Unfortunately not sir!
Monroe: He should stick to what he's good at.
Cryer: Which is what sir?
Monroe: Good question Bob.
Conway: (As George pulls up in car): You're blocking someone else sir!
It's a shame we didn't hear another bit of Conway's speech to Brownlow at the end:
Conway: You b*****d
Brownlow: What did you say?
Conway: You heard me - because I said it to your face. I didn't write down what I thoguht of you on some piece of paper.
Best episode so far and probably (maybe along with S.A.D?) the best of 1998. 10/10.
I can't agree more. Just a fantastic episode. It had the perfect mix with comedy (with Skase/Garfield/Quinnan and the clapped out car), Conway getting stuck in, Meadows and CID looking out of touch, Conway confronting Brownlow. So many memorable moments.
The episodes where all the cast are used are always the best episodes. Like when Martella got shot, and like today where most of the cast was used.
The Conway/Brownlow/Meadows trio was fantastic and I think this was one of the things that we lost from The Bill post-2002. That, and the comedy aspect. The Bill took itself far too seriously after 2002, and I liked the balance pre-2002.
My favourite line of the episode was this:
Conway to Brownlow: I may not have the right face but at least I've only got one of them.
What a fantastically underhanded and brilliant line.
10/10. Probably the best Bill episode I've ever seen to be honest.
Agree it's one of the best episdes ever - wonderful stuff.
I agree. The narrative is complex and that's what I like. Post-2002, the writing became quite simplistic and lacking any subtlety.
UK Drama is one of only a handful of SD channels I watch on Sky as normally stick to HD ones, but presume the bit rate they have on Sky is way too low.